Of course, this doesn't seem very thematically cool. Do you have any thoughts on this?

This is a problem I've grappled with for Ages, because Crafting is my baby, only after Solars in general.

So you have to remember that Exalted 2e (where most of my insight lies), assumes that the game is run kind of like a Comic Imprint. You aren't 4-5 people in a main caste ensemble serial TV series- you're the big Avengers Team up books. 'Downtime' is what you all do in your personal Character-Title lines.

With that in mind, Craft!

Craft has trouble being engaging for multiple people, because no one else is getting benefits or rewards from participating. If you're all pooling your resources to help the Craft Guy, what are they getting out of it? Now socially we should acknowledge that friends ought to be okay with helping people out- but the problem comes when you attach Optimization Paths to Player Participation.

Once you REQUIRE people to participate with a system, it becomes a chore, an obligation.

I don't have a solution for that offhand but I wanted to mention it.

Now, 'Charms handwaving the system'. This is a VERY common pitfall and I am woefully guilty of it constantly, but one should resist the urge. IF you make charms to hand wave the rules, why do you have rules in eh first place? (The main reason of course, is to model how its done without Charms).

The next comment is thematics: Artifacts are not supposed to be common. You are supposed to, on paper, treat a 2-dot daiklave as if it were Excalibur, AND accept the fact that there are enough such blades that DBs are gifted them as graduation presents. Artifacts have LEGENDS. NEW artifacts merely have legends that are sourced in how they were made, instead of where and who used them.

So you have to, at a system level, square the idea of artifacts being attainable with them being Rare and Storied. The 2e craft mechanics try to convey this, by putting down a lot of arduous requirements to artifice, dramatically telescoping the timescale for everyone Not Magical.

I can also tell you that, with the right Charms, a Solar can make a craft interval in about 3 days? (This is actually terrifying, and kind of poorly mechanized).

There are more thoughts- and I'm by no means the sole voice on how crafting 'can work', but that's the initial reply.
 
I guess the core idea would be to reduce the amount of dice tricks, make the individual Charms special and evocative and to make them Bogstromantic.
The first thing you should probably need to address then, is how 'Special and evocative' you want your new Charm system to feel. Because no matter what, you're going to run headlong into the issue that Exalted is ultimately operating as a Game System and not a construct of freeform prose, which means certain effects are going to inevitably fall into broad mechanical archetypes like "damage-adder," "counterattack," "persistent buff" and so on to interface with how Storyteller is a ruleset built atop trait numbers and dice percentages. None of those things are very compelling or magical in practice, but Charms Need to interact with that system to some unavoidable degree. Not even Jenna Moran could fully rid herself of them either, so you can see places in her works where she tried to at least work them towards a Goal.

3e tried to create a type of Specialness and "magical evocativeness" by introducing unpredictability and obscuring the actual gameplay effectiveness of Charms themselves through endlessly (and needlessly) complex variations to and vague interactions between base effects like rerolling and resolution structure, so we can both kind of agree that doesn't really work and grinds at-odds with the required transparency that the system needs to be a fulfilling and nonarbitrary experience to run.

So instead, keeping in mind what "you can't escape the numbers" limitations you're working within, you'll need to look at what those broad mechanical archetypes are performing inside the system and how you in particular feel they should be performing that, in a way You find to be special and rewarding in the gameplay. There's two ways of going about this, and Exalted mixes them pretty liberally. The first is the hardest one, because it requires an understanding of the core system: determining Foundational Mechanics. This is plotting out those base-level interactions between system and Charm, where Borgstromancy is the second step as you tease out what the mechanical foundations you've imposed say about the narrative baseline.

Like, here is an example: Perhaps you think that Counters are too strong as an independent attack action, and so instead they serve as a form of small amount of "automatic damage" inflicted upon an attacker instead of a fully-rolled attack with all the resolution complexity that implies. That's not a bad idea at all, and now you can reduce Other similar "counterattack" Charms to be "automatic effect upon being announced as a target of an action." That is your new Foundation mechanic for counters, and it becomes a gameplay Archetype you can assume anyone who wants to be a good combatant will approach because well, as any DB with anima-flux can tell you, an auto-damage aura is a pretty useful thing to have.

But, at the same time, there still exist other "do not target me" effects in the Solar Charmset like Radiant Majestic Presence which can be folded under your new definition of "counterattack." This is where you finally get to make Statements about the setting, and just how the "untouchability" of a Solar combatant manifests itself, and what ways both counters and Presence (through providing 'social-based counters') assist in that theme. So you can already see the process here: Define Archetypes across the system, find other examples of them and sort them by relevance to those Archetypes, and then define how each Ability tree which has (or should have) that Archetype approaches it in a way which upholds the narrative you want.

The second method is working the opposite way via Informed Narrative effects, which are more detached from the core systems and are are more "layered on top of" the Storyteller system. This is things like Perfect effects and other "announce it and it happens" pseudo-stunt powers like conjuring light or making a bonfire from your hands, which you can't normally make actions to cause at a whim like you can with say, Jumping. A lot of people tend to work from here initially because it requires less systems-knowledge and more "what I want to do" knowledge, and that means they tend to butt heads with other Charms more often than Foundational stuff. Since you've pinned down the gameplay archetypes you have in mind prior, you have to look at what the game is telling you About the splat in question first and see what Archetype(s) you have which serve do that thing.

Another example, the book says "Dragonblooded use and create elemental effects," but it now falls to You to assign that trait to Something, or maybe even several somethings. I already mentioned redefining "counters" so that DB Anima flux is now a "counter" by this method, but the standard way is by replicating an archetype within the Charm itself, just as a variant on the existing rules for it. Much the same way that "bolt" Charms are rolled as a Simple action with a "weapon" made out of bonuses applied by the Charm, instead of Modifying an existing attack action.

You're using the Charm rules to recreate the effect you want, in a way which matches other areas in the system but not Overlapping them, usually with some kind of rider conditional (like how a "bolt attack" is not a proper weapon, and therefore you can't tag it with Archery or Thrown Charms dependent on ammo or projectiles, beyond Excellencies for the roll it is making). You get the general idea here, but it basically comes back to the same ideas as the first: Find the traits you want to highlight, determine which archetype you think works best for that purpose, and use it to highlight that feature in a way that the splat in question "always" has access to it in some way so long as they buy into its required Ability.

Hopefully that all doesn't read quite so daunting as the length implies! But Generally speaking, these are the things you should be looking at first when sorting out how to revamp any chunk of the Charm system, wholly or in part. The rest of it comes down to matters of personal taste, and internal-balancing by running the numbers (to make sure your bonuses and penalties are actually Bonuses and Penalties in the long run), and playtesting it extensively to get the results you feel are right.
 
Hopefully that all doesn't read quite so daunting as the length implies! But Generally speaking, these are the things you should be looking at first when sorting out how to revamp any chunk of the Charm system, wholly or in part. The rest of it comes down to matters of personal taste, and internal-balancing by running the numbers (to make sure your bonuses and penalties are actually Bonuses and Penalties in the long run), and playtesting it extensively to get the results you feel are right.

To be honest, it's only now that I'm starting to appreciate the Herculean magnitude of the task. I'm having trouble even pinning down the themes and ideas that I'd want a rewrite of the Crafting system to evoke. If I can't even decide that, how can I begin to create Charms that make statements about the narrative for 25 Abilities?

I knew this would be a big task. I thought in terms of moths but I curse my previous arrogance because it's only now that I understand that this would be an undertaking of years. Honestly, my new goal is to just create a new crafting system. Not Charms, just a crafting system and even this feels like something I can't even put a dent in.
 
To be honest, it's only now that I'm starting to appreciate the Herculean magnitude of the task. I'm having trouble even pinning down the themes and ideas that I'd want a rewrite of the Crafting system to evoke. If I can't even decide that, how can I begin to create Charms that make statements about the narrative for 25 Abilities?

I knew this would be a big task. I thought in terms of moths but I curse my previous arrogance because it's only now that I understand that this would be an undertaking of years. Honestly, my new goal is to just create a new crafting system. Not Charms, just a crafting system and even this feels like something I can't even put a dent in.

Well you're not alone- I've been working on craft hacks for ages myself! I'm a little busy right now, but at some point I will try to compile my drafts again for review.
 
To be honest, it's only now that I'm starting to appreciate the Herculean magnitude of the task. I'm having trouble even pinning down the themes and ideas that I'd want a rewrite of the Crafting system to evoke. If I can't even decide that, how can I begin to create Charms that make statements about the narrative for 25 Abilities?

I knew this would be a big task. I thought in terms of moths but I curse my previous arrogance because it's only now that I understand that this would be an undertaking of years. Honestly, my new goal is to just create a new crafting system. Not Charms, just a crafting system and even this feels like something I can't even put a dent in.
Yeah, as someone working towards the same goals myself, this is why it is called Game Design. Because it requires a lot of mindful work paid toward the Design in the context of it being a Game. You need to make the pieces before you can find out how the strategies on the board play out. This is something of a double-edged sword too, because all that work required for such broad systems, especially from just one person, is why RPGs generally have such slipshod implementation and inconsistency as their hallmarks. No one gets paid nearly enough to do it all properly, and those who do typically Don't and pass the buck to the consumer to make patch-jobs on.

That's why I suggested looking at archetypes, see what tools the game gives you. Take things in small chunks of understanding, then figure out how to use those tools to do the things you want, and why they work as they do. Now you have a broad enough knowledge base to create the distinctions you value so much, and from there making Charms becomes a simple case of divvying up that Borgstromantic approach piecemeal in a way that feels natural and organic.

I can't say its Easy, and its certainly not Fast if you want an overnight solution to mechanical woes. But it can be a rewarding thing if you enjoy digging into the guts of it and trying to refine what you enjoy rather than Fix The Problem.
 
What do you think about rewriting Craft to be more like Jenna Moran's systems i.e. based on the idea of "crafting XP." I was thinking that Solars could take various actions to increase their pool of XP which they can spend on a point buy system of capabilities. The rating of the artifact determines the XP cap that can be earned to spend on it.

I think if you're going to rewrite the Craft system you should rewrite the Charm system at the same time to supplement it.

Basically, the point of Craft in a purely gamist1​ perspective is to give your characters Cool Stuff that does Neat Things. Those neat things can be simple ("I get a +2 to hit!") or complex ("When I hit with the sword I get to summon a orbiting fireball that acts as a mobile shield, I can have up to five of them and when I strike I can expend all fireballs to do a super attack!") or anywhere in between.

Simple effects are remarkably easy to balance; just set a maximum effect bonus (max dice bonus = Craft is a good one) from Cool Stuff, declare bonus from multiple Cool Stuff does not stack, only the highest applies. Then its just a matter of setting a cost for this and determining how much downtime is required.

The good thing about this is it is a system you can use to include all sorts of downtime activities for other players as well by adapting it whole. You want to craft a magic sword Artifact 5 (+5 to swording) and that's cool. Your Eclipse wants to set up a functional administration for that city you took over, the Zenith wants to raise a temple, the Dawn wants to train a militia and the Night wants to build a spy network. Okay. So each of these things can be defined as a piece of Cool Stuff that lets you do a Neat Thing better. In this case, we can define them as a simple dice bonus to relevant actions. The Eclipse gains Influence 5 for a +5 bonus to Run Government actions. The Zenith gains Cult 5 and gets a +5 bonus on Prayer actions. The Dawn gains Command 5 and gains +5 bonus on Engage In War actions and the Night gains Contacts 5 and gains a +5 bonus on Gather Information actions. They all build these things based on their own skills (Bureaucracy, Socialize, War and Larceny respectively). The costs, in both resources and downtime, would be the same as for your Sword of Swording +5. If it takes five seasons and a king's ransom to make a Sword of Swording +5 it takes five seasons and a king's ransom to make a Accounting Department of Not Being Corrupt +5. Effects which accelerate timeframes, or required Exotic Plot Triggers (think Exotic Ingredients, but call them Things The Players Have To Do In Game Time) are basically going to be the same across frames.

Now everyone gets to make Cool Stuff that does Neat Things while you craft, so its less a one player game and more each player basically spending downtime on whatever.

Of course, this requires you to have a system where Run Government and Invade Country are valid actions with mechanical heft. Doing that for 3e is left as an exercise for the reader.

Once you get past Simple Neat Things for your Cool Stuff to do that's going to get trickier. Here is where a revitalized charm system comes into play. Basically any Neat Thing your Cool Stuff can do that isn't a simple dice bonus is a Charm. I mean, call it an Evocation or a Special Effect or whatever you want, its a Charm. This means that you have to balance the list of potential effects against every charmset. Go read some rants about combination hell and see why this is tricky.

Here is how we handle this: We create a new subset of Charms called Universal Charms. These are deliberately weak effects. In terms of power level you're aiming at the level of Spirit Charms, that is a set of generic effects that can be tweaked as needed for story effect. Spirits and Godblooded, the two most common enemy types, would be balanced around these Charms and so they would be designed to mainly create interesting effects that are neat, but not very powerful (you want neat and powerful opponents, go fight Exalts or high tier Spirits like Deathlords and Third Circles who have Panoply Charms... but more on that later). The point of the Universal Charm Set is that you can also build them into artifacts. In effect, each Charm would have a cost, a minimum Ability needs to incorporate it, and a time frame required to 'build' it. Then players can spend the required resources/downtime/Exotic Plot Triggers and bam, they have a piece of Cool Stuff that does that Neat Thing; ie it replicates the effect of the Charm.

The best part about this is that it also allows you to use this for any of the players downtime agendas. Yes, your Twilight can build a palace that has Charm Mandate of Heaven built into it such that whoever lives in the palace gets bonuses to rulership actions. Or your Eclipse can create a perfectly detailed set of training programs such that the palace eunuchs count as a Magical Bureaucracy which confers Mandate of Heaven upon the leadership of the kingdom. Or maybe you Zenith creates a series of religious dogma that encourage proper obedience and suddenly you have a Magical Cult that grants Mandate of Heaven to the leader of it.

Then there are Panoply Charms, these are the Charms unique to your Exalt type (or powerful spirits, fair folk, whatever). You would tag certain Charms as Panoply-Ok, and they become things you can built into Cool Stuff to trigger the effects of your Exalt Charms on demand. The trick here is that you need a character of that type to use them. So if you build Speed the Wheels into a organization you need a Solar to be running things, at least ostensibly, to trigger this effect. This, by the way, is how you build the First Age. You make building things with Panoply Charms very much more expensive and costly to maintain, and then you have them only useable if the Solars are still around. Then, well, Solars die and...

While this doesn't eliminate Combination Hell it does reduce it, now you only have to balance two Charmset ever at a time. The Exalt Panoply and the Universal Charms. You can't ever combine two Panoply Charms from different types, so you don't have to balance Solar Charms against access to Lunar Charms.




1: No, this isn't an invitation to start talking GNS theory or defining terms. "Gamist" means "from the perspective of the game as a game."
 
While we're on the subject of 3e crafting . . .

I remember reading that in 3e, there's a rule against making more than one attempt at creating the same artifact. Which seems . . . controversial. And I can kinda sympathise with both sides of the argument:
I get that the intent of banning repeat attempts to [re]make an artifact is to enforce artifacts being Wonders and the whole "It's not possible to craft the Silmarils twice", to prevent a crafter from outfitting the whole party with Cups of Flowing Blood or Cloaks of Vanishing Escapes (or going so far as to start crafting dozens of them and mass-selling them to DBs, turning a wondermaker into a routine assembly-production technician and merchant). I also get that it's kinda disappointing to not be able to try making something because someone else succeeded/failed at making it. I also understand that it's kinda silly if each crafter gets to make one instance of a proverbial Silmaril even if 50 other crafters did it before (half of them successfully).

Do the Crafting Reformation People have any ideas how the two opposing . . . paradigms of crafting, or whatever one should call the different approaches to making craftsmen feel like actual makers of Wonders?
 
While we're on the subject of 3e crafting . . .

I remember reading that in 3e, there's a rule against making more than one attempt at creating the same artifact. Which seems . . . controversial. And I can kinda sympathise with both sides of the argument:
I get that the intent of banning repeat attempts to [re]make an artifact is to enforce artifacts being Wonders and the whole "It's not possible to craft the Silmarils twice", to prevent a crafter from outfitting the whole party with Cups of Flowing Blood or Cloaks of Vanishing Escapes (or going so far as to start crafting dozens of them and mass-selling them to DBs, turning a wondermaker into a routine assembly-production technician and merchant). I also get that it's kinda disappointing to not be able to try making something because someone else succeeded/failed at making it. I also understand that it's kinda silly if each crafter gets to make one instance of a proverbial Silmaril even if 50 other crafters did it before (half of them successfully).

Do the Crafting Reformation People have any ideas how the two opposing . . . paradigms of crafting, or whatever one should call the different approaches to making craftsmen feel like actual makers of Wonders?
I believe that it's more that now each weapon is sort of supposed to be it's own thing with its own personality. Ember, the Shepard's Blade, was made for a specific purpose by a certain Exalt and used and shaped over centuries into a blade of burning passion and firey might. There can never be another Ember. If Ember had been stillborn, if it's crafter had failed, Ember would never have been. They could have made a different Red Jade Daiklave, but it wouldn't have ended up being Ember.
 
Do the Crafting Reformation People have any ideas how the two opposing . . . paradigms of crafting, or whatever one should call the different approaches to making craftsmen feel like actual makers of Wonders?
I think that that should be a product of the materials you use. For instance, you can make a helm that lets you see further than any man out of the scraps of a Shogunate auspex device, but without another auspex device you're going to have to find another way to make another. For high level items, you need more impressive materials, which will by their nature be more unique. You can only make the First and Forsaken Lion's corpse into one Artifact N/A soulsteel item, after all.
I believe that it's more that now each weapon is sort of supposed to be it's own thing with its own personality. Ember, the Shepard's Blade, was made for a specific purpose by a certain Exalt and used and shaped over centuries into a blade of burning passion and firey might. There can never be another Ember. If Ember had been stillborn, if it's crafter had failed, Ember would never have been. They could have made a different Red Jade Daiklave, but it wouldn't have ended up being Ember.
On the other hand, you can make as many red jade dailkaves as you want and then just not bother to elucidate on their properties. It's not like their's anything other than the scarcity of red jade stopping you.
 
Do the Crafting Reformation People have any ideas how the two opposing . . . paradigms of crafting, or whatever one should call the different approaches to making craftsmen feel like actual makers of Wonders?
Well, one fairly obvious approach is to have there be lesser wonders that you can mass-produce - your bog standard ordinary daiklave that's basically just a sword that's more magical than the base state of magic in Creation and has a better statline - and your actual Wonders. Since a lot of people don't particularly want an Excalibur, they just want top-tier standard equipment with no flashy expensive powers of its own (and wouldn't mind not having to spend Artifact dots on it).

This also solves the awkward issue of daiklaves being rare unique fantastic legends a'la Excalibur or Kusanagi with a long and storied history behind them that get given to pimply mid-twenties Dragonblooded upon graduation.
 
Do the Crafting Reformation People have any ideas how the two opposing . . . paradigms of crafting, or whatever one should call the different approaches to making craftsmen feel like actual makers of Wonders?

This is part of my personal opinion mostly, but here are a few points I tend to follow:
  • Exalted's 2e's strength lies in that it tells you there is no lost elf crafting. If it was done before, you CAN do it again. The problem comes from presumption of entitlement, and poorly communicated scope. I.E. a circle of five Solars should not be able to equal the High First Age as a standard assumption of the setting.
  • Part of 2e's assumption of Wonders lies in the fact that it was an epic quest to make the thing. Years, before Charms and other modifiers. Those years compose of events that create the seed of the artifact's legend. The problem is that 'Mass production' magic as 2e presented it, tried to maintain that the legendary requirements were still there, just contextualized.
    • Think about it- is it any less miraculous that ten factories spread out across the our planet all come together to make one end product?
  • Coming again back to the 2e model, part of 'Crafting Wonders' is the lengths you go to Make them. Problem is, players don't want to go to Great Lengths. They want their Shiny Toys. They want control. Control over the flow and pace of the plot- Control to tell the storyteller 'No that's boring I'm mashing my plot device power'. That's what 2e Crafting ended in, and what 3e crafting was built for.
As @Aleph semi-ninja'd me, another solution is to expand the definition of magical equipment. We already have Enchanted/Talismans as of 2e, but they're not well appreciated or proliferated. A lot of the Lesser Materials she's created for example, serve as a helpful mnemonic device for players and storytellers to remember that such things exist.

I think I had other thoughts, but I lost them.
 
I think that that should be a product of the materials you use. For instance, you can make a helm that lets you see further than any man out of the scraps of a Shogunate auspex device, but without another auspex device you're going to have to find another way to make another. For high level items, you need more impressive materials, which will by their nature be more unique. You can only make the First and Forsaken Lion's corpse into one Artifact N/A soulsteel item, after all.

On the other hand, you can make as many red jade dailkaves as you want and then just not bother to elucidate on their properties. It's not like their's anything other than the scarcity of red jade stopping you.
Also time. Works if you're only an artisan, less so if you've got other important shit to do. But yeah, totally, if your whole thing is that you make and sell daiklaves, they won't come with full Evocations, their legend will be built with their wielders, and while each one is unique to the Crafter, not all will have a write-up unless it becomes relevant. If you fail one in that scenario, not being able to remake it isn't really that important. Well, it is because now you're behind on the project you were hired for, but it's not the same loss as 'shit I really invested myself into this particular idea'. Which is both a flaw and a feature of the system, depending on what kind of player you are.
 
Also time. Works if you're only an artisan, less so if you've got other important shit to do. But yeah, totally, if your whole thing is that you make and sell daiklaves, they won't come with full Evocations, their legend will be built with their wielders, and while each one is unique to the Crafter, not all will have a write-up unless it becomes relevant. If you fail one in that scenario, not being able to remake it isn't really that important. Well, it is because now you're behind on the project you were hired for, but it's not the same loss as 'shit I really invested myself into this particular idea'. Which is both a flaw and a feature of the system, depending on what kind of player you are.
That's why you don't show the ST your write-up for the artifact until after you've made it. I mean, there's no incentive to do so, as you can come up with other stunts, and there's an incentive not to do so, as it won't ruin your artifact. And it's not like the mass-produced daiklaives will be any worse off in terms of evocations or statlines.
 
That's why you don't show the ST your write-up for the artifact until after you've made it. I mean, there's no incentive to do so, as you can come up with other stunts, and there's an incentive not to do so, as it won't ruin your artifact. And it's not like the mass-produced daiklaives will be any worse off in terms of evocations or statlines.
Assuming your ST is okay with you blatantly working around the intent of the rules like that.
 
Hm. This reminds me of a few more old 2e homebrew Crafting Charms I liked enough to save. These were all by Dex_Davican, or Gonad Guy as I like to call him. On the one hand, a lot of them suffer from the question, "do I really need a Charm for this?" at the conceptual level, but I still like them for making an earnest attempt to play ball with 2e's idea that you make Artifacts through epic questing.
Golden Adventure Infusion (aka Quests Are Power) - Gonad Guy
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 3; Type: Simple (in long ticks)
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Craftsman Needs No Tools
The Lawgivers do not venture into the world for anything as base as physical rewards, and that which they create is empowered as much by their hearts as by any laws of science. Solars adventure not for material, but to change the face of Creation.

This Charm may only be activated upon the completion of a successful quest, and only once per month. For purposes of this Charm, a quest is defined as the accomplishment of a major, challenging goal which either takes an entire Story to complete, or is gradually accomplished over the course of several Stories. When this Charm is activated, the Solar chooses a mundane keepsake or memento of the adventure and instills it with the essence and flavor of the completed quest, making it into a memorial of the Solar's heroism. This object may be used as a replacement for a known, existing exotic ingredient for the construction of an Artifact--the ingredient's effective Artifact-level is equivalent to (Solar's Essence when memento was created - 1). The type of memento is based upon the type of quest undertaken, and the manner in which it was completed. There are four kinds, based upon the four Virtues:

-Compassion: These mementos may be made after quests meant to protect the weak and innocent or to make peace where there was war. Quest resolutions based on pacifism, love of life or mercy, such as the forgiveness of a years-long nemesis, also allow for this type of memento to be made. Such mementos may be used in place of any known ingredient that could or would likely be given away by its original owner, that has a strong emotional element, or otherwise resonates strongly with Compassion.

-Conviction: These mementos may be made after quests meant to seek vengeance or to defend/promote a particular philosophy. Quest resolutions based on withstanding intense hardship or committing horrible acts, such as culling a village of its plague victims, also allow for this type of memento to be made. Such mementos may be used in place of any known ingredient that would gain its power from pain and suffering, that exemplifies a philosophy, or otherwise resonates strongly with Conviction.

-Temperance: These mementos may be made after quests meant to encourage stability or uphold laws. Quest resolutions based on commitment to propriety or honesty, such as accepting the punishment for a crime committed by necessity, also allow for this type of memento to be made. Such mementos may be used in place of any known ingredient that would gain its power based on decree or law, that encourages stability or abstinence, or otherwise resonates strongly with Temperance.

-Valor: These mementos may be made after quests meant to encourage or participate in great violence or courage. Quest resolutions based on courage or anger, such as standing against an obviously superior foe, also allow for this type of memento to be made. Such mementos may be used in place of any known ingredient that could originally only be taken from an unwilling owner, that gained its power from violence, or otherwise resonates strongly with Valor.

Essence-users instinctively know that they may spend a mote and a miscellaneous action while in contact with such mementos to intuit the broad strokes or gain visions of the quest and the relative power of the memento. Such mementos do not age normally, and generally escape incidental harm, being threatened only by beings who intentionally wish to destroy them. Artifacts forged from such mementos may allow access to the tales of their quests, if the creator so desires.

Mementos created by this Charm may not replace magical materials or truly unique ingredients. "A Third Circle Demon's Tears" is valid for replacement--"Ligier's Tears" would not be.

Heart-as-Anvil Technique (aka Put Your Heart Into It)
Cost:
10m, 2wp; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 4; Type: Dramatic Action
Keywords: Obvious
Duration: From Sunrise to Sunset
Prereqs: Golden Adventure Infusion
When the Chosen of the Sun have spent enough time forging Creation, they use the lessons learned throughout their adventures to forge peerless wonders. Their own brilliance has readied the components--all that remains is to put them together.

This Charm creates a Dramatic Action to build an Artifact using one or more mementos created with Golden Adventure Infusion. The Solar begins at dawn and works feverishly, hammer blows ringing like thunder, her every movement exuding creative genius. She may only use mementos created by herself or a previous incarnation, or that were given to her willingly by another Solar, and she may not be interrupted for the full day. If, at sunset, these conditions have been fulfilled, then she makes (number of mementos used +1) Craft rolls. Each roll is the equivalent of a normal Craft interval for creating Artifacts. Superfluous mementos may not be added to pad the number of rolls, but multiple weaker mementos may be reflexively fused without a roll to create stronger mementos according to the usual rules for combining Artifacts to make more powerful Artifacts. Only mementos strong enough to function as ingredients for the actual Artifact grant Craft rolls.

Mementos that grant rolls with this Charm are used up forever, regardless of whether or not the Artifact is complete when the Charm ends.

Golden Years Reaffirmation (aka Those Were the Days)
Cost:
--; Mins: Craft 5, Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prereqs: Golden Adventure Infusion
On occasion, even the Lawgivers grow weary. But reminiscing upon past heroism always bolsters their spirits, spurring them onto still greater heights.

Once per month per memento, when the Solar spends a mote and a miscellaneous action to experience the quest held within a memento he created, he may regain a point of Willpower. He may instead regain a Virtue Channel appropriate to the memento, but this renders the memento inert and useless for reminiscence or crafting for a Season.
Assuming your ST is okay with you blatantly working around the intent of the rules like that.
We've been over this. How is the ST supposed to know what the intent of the rules are?
 
Assuming your ST is okay with you blatantly working around the intent of the rules like that.
But you're not. The intent of the rules are that you be unable to craft the same item twice. So you're creating a large number of totally unique items that have no differentiation from each other until someone decides to add it. You can even number then to make sure that people don't get confused. Solar Stark's red jade daiklave number 1, Solar Stark's red jade daiklave number 2, ect.
 
But you're not. The intent of the rules are that you be unable to craft the same item twice. So you're creating a large number of totally unique items that have no differentiation from each other until someone decides to add it. You can even number then to make sure that people don't get confused. Solar Stark's red jade daiklave number 1, Solar Stark's red jade daiklave number 2, ect.
Unable to craft twice or attempt twice? What's the wording in the book?
 
Considering some of the things 2e did to formerly cool concepts...

Yep!

They'd have made the entire thing a gushing fountain of the ebon dragons mind controlling sperm or something, another obviously, dastardly plot to escape.

I would not put it past them.

Also: The sea is mentioned in MoEP: The Dragon-Blooded.

It's copypasted from 1e and has less content.
 
Unable to craft twice or attempt twice? What's the wording in the book?
Vicky, I quote the section below.
Hm. This reminds me of a few more old 2e homebrew Crafting Charms I liked enough to save. These were all by Dex_Davican, or Gonad Guy as I like to call him. On the one hand, a lot of them suffer from the question, "do I really need a Charm for this?" at the conceptual level, but I still like them for making an earnest attempt to play ball with 2e's idea that you make Artifacts through epic questing.

We've been over this. How is the ST supposed to know what the intent of the rules are?
Relevant section:
"If the intended artifact was one-of-a-kind, such as all
daiklaves and similar weapons are, the character can never
attempt to build that specific artifact again. She might one
day create a different daiklave, but the dream she strove to
realize with that particular failed project is gone forever."
Page 241, Exalted Third Edition.
Daiklaves are one of a kind. If you screw-up, you can't retry it. Maybe the ST doesn't ask for it up front and trusts you, and you get to try as many times as you want for your dream weapon. Maybe the ST goes 'I'll need to know exactly what you're attempting'. If I was going pure RAW, though, yeah, I'd say 'what's the daiklave like, what are you trying to make, what's the character thinking of'. So that I know you aren't deliberately fudging the rules.
 
Daiklaves are one of a kind. If you screw-up, you can't retry it. Maybe the ST doesn't ask for it up front and trusts you, and you get to try as many times as you want for your dream weapon. Maybe the ST goes 'I'll need to know exactly what you're attempting'. If I was going pure RAW, though, yeah, I'd say 'what's the daiklave like, what are you trying to make, what's the character thinking of'. So that I know you aren't deliberately fudging the rules.
'I'm intending to create a daiklaive made of red jade. I can't write a charm to save my life, so I'll probably find some evocations to copy/never buy them/just give it to someone else and let them worry about it.'

Also, the book does a very poor job of convincing readers that all artifact weapons are one of a kind, given that every exalted in the antagonist has generic artifact weapons.
 
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'I'm intending to create a daiklaive made of red jade. I can't write a charm to save my life, so I'll probably find some evocations to copy/never buy them/just give it to someone else and let them worry about it.'

Also, the book does a very poor job of convincing readers that all artifact weapons are one of a kind, given that every exalted in the antagonist has generic artifact weapons.
...dude, they're 'generic' in the sense that the Exalts are generic. The Dragon Blooded Dynast example doesn't have a name, either, but you're not assuming he's just like any other Dragonblooded. All those artifacts are gonna have their own little quirks and potential Evocations. Just like their wielders. Also, notanautomaton, you can, like...write up the gist of a weapon without needing a full Evocation tree. The intent and the dream behind it and all.
 
Vicky, I quote the section below.

Relevant section:
"If the intended artifact was one-of-a-kind, such as all
daiklaves and similar weapons are, the character can never
attempt to build that specific artifact again. She might one
day create a different daiklave, but the dream she strove to
realize with that particular failed project is gone forever."
Page 241, Exalted Third Edition.
Daiklaves are one of a kind. If you screw-up, you can't retry it. Maybe the ST doesn't ask for it up front and trusts you, and you get to try as many times as you want for your dream weapon. Maybe the ST goes 'I'll need to know exactly what you're attempting'. If I was going pure RAW, though, yeah, I'd say 'what's the daiklave like, what are you trying to make, what's the character thinking of'. So that I know you aren't deliberately fudging the rules.
Hmm. So "I want a Daiklave that does something (vs. something other that the previous one did)" is not a breach of uniqueness rules, but "I want yet another cloak that also makes me invisible" or "I want a second Jade Pen that writes down what I say" are both examples of breaking uniqueness, right?
 
...dude, they're 'generic' in the sense that the Exalts are generic. The Dragon Blooded Dynast example doesn't have a name, either, but you're not assuming he's just like any other Dragonblooded. All those artifacts are gonna have their own little quirks and potential Evocations. Just like their wielders. Also, notanautomaton, you can, like...write up the gist of a weapon without needing a full Evocation tree. The intent and the dream behind it and all.
Why bother with an intent or dream beyond 'I want a better sword/to make lots of money/to give a better sword to my ally?' You don't get any bonus from doing so, and if you go too far you get a malus in the form of wasted effort, which is doubly bad if you wrote charms.
 
Hmm. So "I want a Daiklave that does something (vs. something other that the previous one did)" is not a breach of uniqueness rules, but "I want yet another cloak that also makes me invisible" or "I want a second Jade Pen that writes down what I say" are both examples of breaking uniqueness, right?
The ideal: "A golden blade, which channels the light of the Sun to burn away darkness, appears to me in a dream. I call it Dawn's Shining Light." I attempt to make Dawn's Shining Light. If I fail, I can never, ever make Dawn's Shining Light. I can probably still make a different weapon that fulfills the general purpose of 'Orichalcum daiklave that burns away darkness', though. The Jade Pen would be a good example of artifacts that you can just make lots of. It's only Daiklaves and more potent unique things (the exact extent is unspecified) that are absolutely unique. The Jade Pen is textbook 'you can make ten of these if you want and all of them are the exact same thing'. I'd say you could get multiple artifacts to grant some level of invisibility, if that is literally all they do. I'd probably make it Artifact 3 or 4, and have it be a pretty-rare thing that pops up occasionally, but probably not the sort of thing the same guy made four times, because it's a huge investment to make something that potent. Unless there's some Air Aspect crafter out there who specializes in them or something.

Why bother with an intent or dream beyond 'I want a better sword/to make lots of money/to give a better sword to my ally?' You don't get any bonus from doing so, and if you go too far you get a malus in the form of wasted effort, which is doubly bad if you wrote charms.
Don't bother playing a crafter. If that's how you approach it, it's already a wasted effort, the system was not designed with you even remotely in mind, and will not accomadate your wishes. Ex3 Craft is meant for the kind of person who finds the whole intent and dreams of the awesome sword and getting deep into the whole mini-game structure Ex3 Craft does to be fun. The kind of person who finds the crafting itself and the risks and the intent and the building and all that jazz to be fun and rewarding. If you just want to make a magic sword to sell, well, Ex3 Crafting is not for you.
 
Daiklaves are one of a kind. If you screw-up, you can't retry it. Maybe the ST doesn't ask for it up front and trusts you, and you get to try as many times as you want for your dream weapon. Maybe the ST goes 'I'll need to know exactly what you're attempting'. If I was going pure RAW, though, yeah, I'd say 'what's the daiklave like, what are you trying to make, what's the character thinking of'. So that I know you aren't deliberately fudging the rules.
If I give the ST a general overview of the daiklave ahead of time, like "I want to make a whip of lightning," and I fail to create it, then that's vague enough that the ST would have to be pretty draconian to stop me from making some variant of the concept. Prohibitively so, in fact, which is probably not a desired mode of play. It seems to me that the intent is for a failed project to drive a player to stunt some modifications to their concept; "alright, binding the Air essence of lightning into a static form was never going to work, but what if I build a talisman to call lightning into the shape of a whip from the surrounding area?"

Given your own comments on how 3e wants different tables to come up with their own answers, can you really say I'm wrong?
 
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