couldn't you in overhaul the entire system with Yozi Flavoured essences?

Well, then you run into the fact that it won't work in the same way. You see, the elements of Creation work harmoniously. But the Yozis are universes in themselves. You can't just use Kimbery where you would use Water and Cytherea where you would fire, because while Creation's water when heated with fire acts predictably, Kimbery when heated with fire attempts to either flee or - if trapped or there's a lot more Kimbery or it feels like it - it unleashes noxious fumes and attempts to murder the source of fire.

Also, when you mix Yozi essence sources, you often get omen weather as their laws of physics clash.
 
Well, then you run into the fact that it won't work in the same way. You see, the elements of Creation work harmoniously. But the Yozis are universes in themselves. You can't just use Kimbery where you would use Water and Cytherea where you would fire, because while Creation's water when heated with fire acts predictably, Kimbery when heated with fire attempts to either flee or - if trapped or there's a lot more Kimbery or it feels like it - it unleashes noxious fumes and attempts to murder the source of fire.

Also, when you mix Yozi essence sources, you often get omen weather as their laws of physics clash.

This is why you don't build a steam engine.

You instead tame a Bannikdola, The Scalded Throat Toads, Progeny of the The Path Not Taken.

Bannikdola legs can lift/push with tremendous force, more than enough to push any weight you would need and they grow steadily from the size of a child's fist up to the size of a yeddim (beyond that they explode into a white hot jelly filled with Bannikdola eggs). The only downside is that the Bannikdola have large bladders on their throats which slowly fill with scalding hot gas which they need to croak out in long sharp whistling cries that can leave humans in their path with third degree burns and even send most first circle demons looking for a sessleja. Of course the gas isn't actually water, but the byproduct of the Bannikdola steady diet. They sup on the dregs of destiny; the burned out remnants of the loom that are cut free when Fate is defied and all the plans of heaven come to naught. This dead fate gas is sometimes bottled in Cecelynian glass jars and sold by demonic merchants. It has various uses in Yozi cults around creation to scald away the firm ties of Destiny on those who discover heaven's plans for them are neither kind nor to their liking. Beware the princeling conqueror who manages to avoid a sudden reversal of fortune and who arrives in battle with burn scars on his face.
 
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Mass production of written texts in Malfeas is the domain of the naricolae- beasts with a hundred arms and hands connected to single sensory bundle in the center. While hired or enslaved naricolae may be tasked with copying one text in same way, a naricolae free to do as it pleases will observe one event and draw out a hundred different angles. A naricolae observing a fight may have one hand express shock and horror, another demand more blood and carnage and another see beauty in the fighters's movements. Yet others will be speculating about what lead to fight and what may come of it.
A few demonic warlords and sorcerors have tried to use the naricolae as soldiers capable of wielding a hundred weapons at once and have been sorely disapponted. Each hand has its own mind and in a chaotic enviroment a narcolae is effectively blind(only one eye) and terrifyingly uncoordinated. Hands acting as feet will revolt and attempt to grapple with the enemy. Other hands will be trying to pull it away as fast as possible. Others will try to hack each other off over some dispute of artistic criticism.

Mass production of physical objects has met with some success-but never trust naricolae unattended with sharp objects.
 
After the Kimberyian shrine was installed, the machine explodes because the red jade element is injecting fire essence into the system and that reacts violently with the essence of the Great Mother.

And that, children, is why we cannot simply replace Water with Kimbery. Neither can we simply replace Wood with Metagaos. We can in the short run replace Solar with Ligierian, but that damages the machine unless it's lead shielded. Also, damages other people in the area unless it's lead shielded.
Could you replace the essence with water/fire/air with Szerny in the middle?
 
Well, the story was written by opponents of Mnemon to make a social attack against its readers to persuade them to see her as untrustworthy and the sort of woman who'd murder an opponent after tiring them out and summon a demon using their heart. Anti-Mnemon smut is being produced in large amounts as a political smear.
That's ridiculous slander. Mnemon is far too great of a sorceress to need Exalted hearts to summon demons. Though she might occasionally perform a bit of divination using their livers.
 
Like, how can you say the metallurgy isn't good enough? What does that actually mean? I believe it's a viable direction, but I myself don't actually understand how that's justification.
How is it not a justification? Historically, metallurgy was one of the big things keeping steam power impractical for so long. People couldn't make steel strong enough to stand up to the pressure in the boiler. You can compensate by running at lower pressure, but that cuts way into your power output. This is why a boiler explosion in the go-to for steam engine disasters; running close to the line gets you more power but increases the risk of things going boom. The better your steel (and casting, machining, etc.), the better your engine, and below a certain point it just isn't worth the effort.

Modern Creation is well below that point, so you can't make a steam engine without resorting to Jadesteel or other magic. And if you've got Jadesteel or other magic to throw at it, making a first-generation steam engine is kind of a waste of resources; you almost certainly have better ways to accomplish whatever you wanted the engine for. Similarly, while the Shogunate did have steel and metalworking good enough to make a mundane steam engine, they generally didn't bother.
 
How is it not a justification? Historically, metallurgy was one of the big things keeping steam power impractical for so long. People couldn't make steel strong enough to stand up to the pressure in the boiler. You can compensate by running at lower pressure, but that cuts way into your power output. This is why a boiler explosion in the go-to for steam engine disasters; running close to the line gets you more power but increases the risk of things going boom. The better your steel (and casting, machining, etc.), the better your engine, and below a certain point it just isn't worth the effort.

Modern Creation is well below that point, so you can't make a steam engine without resorting to Jadesteel or other magic. And if you've got Jadesteel or other magic to throw at it, making a first-generation steam engine is kind of a waste of resources; you almost certainly have better ways to accomplish whatever you wanted the engine for. Similarly, while the Shogunate did have steel and metalworking good enough to make a mundane steam engine, they generally didn't bother.

Right- but what I was really asking was how do you communicate that effectively- to your players especially! A few years ago, I couldn't- not specifically enough at least. Even now I only have a vague idea of how to express this baseline. Obviuosly the game doesn't need a dissertation on historical advancements in metallurgy but...
 
Right- but what I was really asking was how do you communicate that effectively- to your players especially! A few years ago, I couldn't- not specifically enough at least. Even now I only have a vague idea of how to express this baseline. Obviuosly the game doesn't need a dissertation on historical advancements in metallurgy but...

Note that although Creation has steel, it's the steel of traditional Japanese smithing techniques. It makes good swords only because it's a belaboured and drawn out process that focuses all the best qualities of the steel where it needs to go while spreading the flaws as evenly as possible, that way making a sword that is actually useful, instead of a disaster waiting to happen.

Unfortunately, while this steel is good enough for swords after tons of work, and lower grade steels are used for armour, trying to use this steel for any pressure containment vessel that's actually useful has a habit of resulting in a load bang and flying shrapnel.


This is mostly because, well, while real life has very high quality mundane steels that make most of the older steel alloys look weak, Creation has viable alternative alloyants; the magical materials. And quite frankly, if you are tossing any of those into the mix, you might as well go straight for direct essence manipulation, as that lets you do things like 'breaking the laws of thermodynamics, including the conservation of mass and energy.'

To Creation, any steam engine they can build is a vastly under performing fire-to-Essence-to-work converter.
 
Right- but what I was really asking was how do you communicate that effectively- to your players especially! A few years ago, I couldn't- not specifically enough at least. Even now I only have a vague idea of how to express this baseline. Obviuosly the game doesn't need a dissertation on historical advancements in metallurgy but...
Why do you need to communicate it to your players? I mean, obviously you'll have to bring it up if they're trying to build up an industrial base and they start asking about steam engines, but if they do that a discussion about the obstacles historical steam engines faced is perfectly appropriate.
 
Why do you need to communicate it to your players? I mean, obviously you'll have to bring it up if they're trying to build up an industrial base and they start asking about steam engines, but if they do that a discussion about the obstacles historical steam engines faced is perfectly appropriate.

Because I have had to justify 'Industrialization as Magic' without satisfactory explanation, so it's a long, personal ugly thing for me~
 
Actually, @Aleph or @EarthScorpion- with your hacks for Attributes, it leaves Changing Moon Lunars with one less caste attribute- how do you deal with that?

(Or with Alchemical castes with Appearance as Caste Attributes, I forget which ones they are)
 
Because I have had to justify 'Industrialization as Magic' without satisfactory explanation, so it's a long, personal ugly thing for me~
Well, the short version is "Steel in Creation ranges from mediocre to crap, and metalworking is at the hammer-and-anvil stage. Most places couldn't build a steam engine if you gave them step-by-step directions, and the places that could - mostly just the Realm and Lookshy - have better options." And if they press, "For steam power to be practical in Creation, you need a very unlikely set of circumstances. You need an advanced nation with the resources, infrastructure, and know-how to do some pretty modern metalworking, and at the same time you need to have little enough magical heft that it isn't faster and easier to just bind a bunch of demons to turn the wheel or something. There just aren't any places in Creation like that, and you, mister Twilight, are not going to be building one."
 
Also, IRL, one of the reasons Greece and Rome never went down the Steam engine path or even explored it was... well, they had slaves.
 
I would think that the influence of the Gods could also be a significant factor in discouraging changes that could alter the existing socio-economic dynamic. The gods of the road would naturally be opposed to competition from canals and would likely levy their considerable power to discourage the creation of canal transportation system. Similarly the gods of tools or particular crafts would oppose any new innovations that would diminish their roles.

IRL opposition to change has often proven to be a significant delay for industrialization and the adaptation of new technology or innovations. I would suspect that the presence of immortal gods with entrenched powerbases that are intrinsically linked to the status quo would be more likely to distrust or successfully oppose change.
 
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I would think that the influence of the Gods could also be a significant factor in discouraging changes that would alter the socio-economic dynamic. The gods of the road would naturally be opposed to competition from system of canals for transportation and would likely levy their considerable power to discourage the creation of such a system

Yeah, no.

Creation is lousy with canals in the "civilised" areas. They're all over the Realm and the Scavenger Lands. IRL, the largest canal in the world was built in the 600s in China. There's fucktonnes of barges and entire barge-based cultures and trading folk, etc etc.
 
Actually, @Aleph or @EarthScorpion- with your hacks for Attributes, it leaves Changing Moon Lunars with one less caste attribute- how do you deal with that?

(Or with Alchemical castes with Appearance as Caste Attributes, I forget which ones they are)
Alchemical-wise there are five Attributes and five Castes, so it should be fairly simple to divvy them up between them and then have one favoured (Adamants get to choose two favoured instead of having a fixed caste ability). Lunar-wise, they have caste-based Charm trees (Full Moon Charms, Changing Moon Charms, etc), and may well just be allowed to freely select two Attributes of their choice to Favour.
 
Would it be safe to assume that every type of Exalted gets the Infernal 'Excellencies take one Charm purchase for every dot of Essence', given that they now all cover that sort of breadth?
 
Would it be safe to assume that every type of Exalted gets the Infernal 'Excellencies take one Charm purchase for every dot of Essence', given that they now all cover that sort of breadth?
No. Exalts in general just have a single Excellency (Essence Overwhelming) that's part of the standard package that's free of xp charge and can be applied to anything they have dots in (which is limited by dice caps, so while you can apply it to your Cog 2 Politics 1, you still only have 6 dice maximum in it). Because Excellencies are boring dice-adders that aren't fun or interesting at all, and which you should therefore not be taxed for.

Infernals are actually the odd ones out here, in that they get access to a Yozi's Excellency upon buying five of their Charms - which means that they'll generally start with one to two for their caste and favoured Yozis, and then get more if they significantly - 50xp, 10-ish sessions of focus - invest in that Yozi's Charms.
 
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