Remove ads

General Exalted Thread

Reader mode
Chloe Sullivan said:
So I was using the rules wrong? Because what I was doing was getting non-excellency die adders to have a bigger pool to reroll. Is this actually cheating?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's how Third Excellency works. You reroll the same dice pool.
You just can't use the First or Second Excellency on the same roll as the Third Excellency. That's the only restriction.
 
Aleph said:
> Aleph: "This is rather stupid; my Solar of a few dozen sessions who has spent most of that time setting up a baking empire spanning two or three countries can be higher-Essence and more mystically potent than the people who wrestled the Primordials and defeated the uncountable armies of demons and Primordial-loyal races who ruled Creation and had access to a Third-Circle-designed infrastructure which was probably on par with that of the First Age."
> Omicron: "No, see, they were more awesome than that, and your chargen Solar should start at that sort of level and rapidly rise to exceed them!"
> Aleph: "Oh right, well. That clears that right up. Much verisimilitude, very WSOD, so believability, wow."

See, you're fucking over your own point here. Firstly, my point is that my Solar Bob can hit E5 after a few dozen sessions of making my fuckawesome baking empire, and yet I am expected to believe that he has reached heights that the Exalted of the First Age struggled to attain, even though they started out wrestling the Empyreal Chaos and went up from there. But secondly, and perhaps more importantly, even ignoring my hyperbole, no matter what I have Solar Bob do, it is probably less awesome than what M-R-L did. Sure, I can fight gods and bring disaster on a country or two, but she and her comrades fought the things that forged Creation, defeated them and then went on to greater things.

And sure, you can say that no, seriously, Bob's stuff is cooler and he's better than they were, but it falls flat. Because he isn't facing bigger challenges or more terrible threats than them, because if threats like that existed in the Age of Sorrows, Creation would be a smoking ruin. The single most important event in the setting - the thing that killed off the Solars, the thing that apparently left Lunars as the angry Exalted who all harbour burning rage in their hearts but totally aren't oWerewolves yo, the thing that shaped the course of both ages since; the Usurpation - it was the Fall of the First Age. And that's the thing. It was a fall. The Sidereals chose to diminish Creation rather than risk its destruction. By tearing down the First Age, they accepted a lessened Age. And maybe those lost heights will be achieved again, but the Age of Sorrows is a tamer, lesser Age compared to the Time of Glory. You're contradicting your own canon by saying that there are challenges on par or exceeding those of ancient history in the world that the Vision of Bronze left us with, because the whole point of the Vision of Bronze is that there aren't anymore. It was a loss that tore through the world to save it, and while there are fearsome things left in modern Creation, they are not as fierce or terrible as what your predecessors triumphed against.

...

On another note, no longer directed specifically at Omicron, I rather love the varied attempts to get me and those who are similarly unimpressed with 3e to stop saying so. Because you have some nerve saying that when I can toss it right back at you. I have every fucking right to say that I'm disappointed and disdainful of what's been offered to us - I was as invested in Exalted as you before 3e, and I stood to gain as much from it as you did. And now it's come out, late and bloated, effectively forcing me to either keep playing the rife-with-flaws 2e or abandon the gameline, and you say "suck it up and find another RPG" like I'm supposed to just meekly accept the loss of my favourite game? Fuck you very much too, thank you! No, I'm not going to let sycophantic praise be the only feedback that the devs get, I am damn well going to call out flaws as I see them. Not necessarily because I hold out any hope that it will change anything in 3e, but because criticism and customer feedback is actually pretty fucking important in design, and designers can never know if they are driving away a largeish chunk of their fanbase if that chunk "suck it up and deal", as Fenrir and Deations and others seem to want them to.

You don't like that people are criticising the direction the new edition is going? Well, if I may paraphrase a quote from earlier... let me see... "TOUGH. FUCKING. SHIT. Clearly, it's not the game they were hoping for. Some of us feel like 3rd Edition has fallen utterly flat on everything it promised and ruined the line. Plenty of us dislike the new directions. You are not fucking everybody. Not everybody wants what's been given to us. If you don't like the criticism, too bad. Sucks for you." If you don't like the "negativity" being thrown around, then let me give you a long "d'awww" and a sympathetic cuddle, and suggest you go off to RPG.net or somewhere where opinion of 3e is higher than here. But, you know, this is actually a thread for discussing Exalted, and so trying to, uh, stop people from discussing what they think of Exalted in it? Maybe not the best attitude for you to take.

I also like the rather transparent attempt to imply that the problems are only with these two Charms. Nice try, kids, but no. These are the problems that the discussion is focused on at the moment, largely because people keep trying to defend them. If you want us to move the conversation onto other topics, say so. Then we could, for instance, address the way that we were promised less Charm Bloat in the new edition and then given 600 Charms of more or less the same mechanic, and how "it lets you specialise your character at grappling" could have been better implemented with Charms that give you new ways to grapple and add capabilities that interact with and enhance the existing systems, rather than saying "you can use the same copy-pasted dice trick mechanics on this part of the system with this Charm, or that part of the system with that Charm, etc". I suppose we can at least see how they expect Exigent homebrew to be so easy - you just have 60-70% of the Charms as specialised dice trick mechanics and you're golden.

Oh, or maybe we can address how the "you should play an X if you want to Y" entries for Lunars and Exigents are largely stuff that you can already do with Solars! The pointless legacy code in motepools and chargen might come up, and how Holden is such an oWerewolf fanboy that despite all the other sacred calves they've slaughtered in the name of changing up the formula, they've kept the BP/XP divide and all the potential for insurmountable experience gaps it opens up for newbie players because he personally likes how it gives you a sense of growth, or something. Or we could tackle Evocations and Martial Arts, and how they spent around 18000 words describing the powers of just ten artifacts and another 24000 on eleven styles. We might move from there into how a lot of the decisions in this shining new edition seem to be made less from the perspective of writing a good game that's easy to build on, and more from the perspective of "lets make sure we can easily churn out future supplements full of more Martial Arts Styles and Evocations so that we can keep getting money out of our fanbase". We could debate the various ways that have already been proposed to break the craft system over one's knee, or the ridiculous difficulty involved in building antagonists with a probability curve that's designed from the ground up to be impossible to eyeball.

We could talk about how Solars - the human heroes whose themes are about excellence and unparalleled ability - have Charms that let them do things like literally possess someone by hiding inside their shadow, which I presume they used excellence and unparalleled ability to steal from the Ebon Dragon. Or how their Charm trees are top-heavy in the extreme, incentivising people to minmax in explicit contradiction to the devs statement that they don't want people minmaxing (and failing to explicitly clarify it either way, meaning it's another newbie trap). We could discuss the way that the Project and Social Influence systems essentially boil down to "ST arbitration; throw a couple of obstacles in their way but let them succeed if they handle it personally", and take 12500 words to say so, or the way that the combat system - while apparently pretty good in general - reportedly runs into issues when you're not modelling 1v1 fights. Hell, we could even delve into the realm of pure opinion and try and get some idea of how many people like the new fluff and attitude of "fuck internal consistency and verisimilitude, we don't care if any of these Charms make the Usurpation impossible" versus how many people find that it blows their WSoD out of the water and shatters their immersion and investment in the setting.

So no, it's nothing even close to being just these two Charms, and I apologise if I've given you the impression it was. If you want to move off them and start on any of the above, then please, guys, say so and we'll begin. Don't let me be guilty of keeping us on this one minor topic. I'm quite happy to criticise the rest of the issues as I see them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Holy shit I looked back a couple of pages and saw this wall of text. Aleph, nobody is trying to oppress or silence you by disagreeing with you. Come down off the cross. Whether or not you're dead set on disliking this game (and this post has shown me that, well the ship has definitely sailed at ever selling you on it) maybe a thousand word tantrum about how we just can't handle you disagreeing with us is just the tiniest bit horseshit.

And just before that you gave us another 500 world tantrum about PCs being built differently from NPCs, and I can't help but feel that our taste in rpgs is a teensy bit irreconcilable.

I could go over this point by point but I don't think it'd accomplish more than a couple of thousand more words of outrage followed by more posters obsessively mashing the like button whenever they see a post you made.

If you want to talk about Exalted, I'm okay with you talking about Exalted. But you don't seem to enjoy it very much when people talk back at you over Exalted and for that, I'm really sorry.

Just stop accusing other people of having a persecution complex when you give us this shit. God bless.
 
Last edited:
Foyada said:
I feel like you may have missed the point of those thousand words.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I guess I read Aleph posts the same way she reads 3E mechanics.

EDIT:

Not necessarily because I hold out any hope that it will change anything in 3e, but because criticism and customer feedback is actually pretty fucking important in design, and designers can never know if they are driving away a largeish chunk of their fanbase if that chunk "suck it up and deal", as Fenrir and Deations and others seem to want them to.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah clearly that's what I'm all about, and furthermore *fart noise*
 
Last edited:
Carrnage said:
Personal attacks are frowned upon, especially low brow, contentless ones.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Um, well, here's what I got from Aleph.

You don't like that people are criticising the direction the new edition is going? Well, if I may paraphrase a quote from earlier... let me see... "TOUGH. FUCKING. SHIT. Clearly, it's not the game they were hoping for. Some of us feel like 3rd Edition has fallen utterly flat on everything it promised and ruined the line. Plenty of us dislike the new directions. You are not fucking everybody. Not everybody wants what's been given to us. If you don't like the criticism, too bad. Sucks for you." If you don't like the "negativity" being thrown around, then let me give you a long "d'awww" and a sympathetic cuddle, and suggest you go off to RPG.net or somewhere where opinion of 3e is higher than here. But, you know, this is actually a thread for discussing Exalted, and so trying to, uh, stop people from discussing what they think of Exalted in it? Maybe not the best attitude for you to take.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Aleph, I could care less that you dislike the game. I could argue about it with you, but I'm a bit angry that I got this bullshit shoved in my face. I don't appreciate this essay about how I'm the one who can't handle the truth when all it shows me is that you are very angry that my thoughts are different than your thoughts.

I'm being told I'm trying to stop her from discussing what she disliked by disagreeing with her on her posts, which is just a bit of a dick move, you know?
 
Last edited:
Then maybe you shouldn't take absolutely everything as a personal attack.

You think it's an essay. That's true.

Is it directed at you? Absolutely, you're definitely one of the target audience.

Is it only for you? No, you idiot.

Now deal with the fact that people get heated when they read the kind of dismissive bullshit Fenrir was spewing.

Does it strike at something deep within you? Well perhaps you should take a moment and analyze why.
 
Last edited:
Carrnage said:
which part of that was a personal attack?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm sorry for getting a bit snarky after being told I can't handle her being negative and needing a hugbox, it's just a bit too ironic for me.

Salty said:
Then maybe you shouldn't take absolutely everything as a personal attack.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Then don't call me out by name and accuse me of trying to shut her down, maybe, by posting opinions that contradict hers. I mean, now I'm actually unhappy, but for reasons entirely unrelated to her thoughts on Exalted.

Salty said:
You think it's an essay. That's true.

Is it directed at you? Absolutely, you're definitely one of the target audience.

Is it only for you? No, you idiot.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Which part was the 'long d'aaw and sympathetic cuddle' before being told to piss off to rpg.net for, exactly?

Salty said:
Now deal with the fact that people get heated when they read the kind of dismissive bullshit Fenrir was spewing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, perhaps people do get heated when they read dismissive bullshit. Yes. Maybe it applies to multiple people, in all sorts of situations.

Salty said:
Does it strike at something deep within you? Well perhaps you should take a moment and analyze why.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I can address her criticism of 3E itself, if you like. I mean, I could at least try to rebutt it, and people could take it or leave it but I am getting the distinct impression that something that may not be welcome here.

EDIT: I mean, shit, if we're just going to lump everyone who contradicts Aleph into a hive-mind then at least keep in mind that unlike Fenrir666 I never told anyone 'maybe Exalted 3E is not for you.'
 
Last edited:
Deations said:
I'm sorry for getting a bit snarky after being told I can't handle her being negative and needing a hugbox, it's just a bit too ironic for me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
you are suffering from reading comprehension failure.
If you don't like the criticism, too bad. Sucks for you." If you don't like the "negativity" being thrown around, then let me give you a long "d'awww" and a sympathetic cuddle, and suggest you go off to RPG.net or somewhere where opinion of 3e is higher than here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Deations said:
I can address her criticism of 3E itself, if you like. I mean, I could at least try to rebutt it, and people could take it or leave it but I am getting the distinct impression that something that may not be welcome here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What "may not be welcome," honestly, is that your rebuttals... aren't. It's not that people don't want to like 3E. It's that when the responses of "This thing is bad because X" occupy three spaces amounting to "lol suck it up or find another game, stop complaining," "well I like it," or "well if you add a bunch of shit to what the text actually says it's fine," the arguments get pretty damn tired.

If you're going to rebut someone's point, actually address the issue they are having. You have been consistently failing to do so.
 
Carrnage said:
you are suffering from reading comprehension failure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If you're going to be the kind of idiot that can't understand that the question inherent in "if" was rhetorical, then you should go find a forum for people with English as their second language.

On the other hand, if you're not being an idiot you have nothing to be offended over, because of my use of "if".
 
Carrnage said:
you are suffering from reading comprehension failure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oh come on, if you're going to be an idiot maybe you should post on hugboxes like the Exalted thread on Sufficient Velocity.

notthepenguins said:
What "may not be welcome," honestly, is that your rebuttals... aren't. It's not that people don't want to like 3E. It's that when the responses of "This thing is bad because X" occupy three spaces amounting to "lol suck it up or find another game, stop complaining," "well I like it," or "well if you add a bunch of shit to what the text actually says it's fine," the arguments get pretty damn tired.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, thank you, this strawman has cleared my issue immensely

notthepenguins said:
If you're going to rebut someone's point, actually address the issue they are having.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, I thought that's what the big argument over God King's Shrike was, and yes, I argued it in good faith. People are free to disagree with it. The majority of SV is free to disagree with it.

I don't like being told I'm being disingenuous when I've made an argument that dares to contradict someone else's. Then you don't have a discussion, you have an echochamber.

notthepenguins said:
You have been consistently failing to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You're free to have an opinion on my arguments. God knows I've formed some opinions as well.
 
Deations said:
I don't like being told I'm being disingenuous when I've made an argument that dares to contradict someone else's. Then you don't have a discussion, you have an echochamber.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Disingenuous? Who said that? I'm just indicating that your arguments are pretty shoddy in large part because you don't seem to be able to understand what the actual problems people are having are.
 
Dark Lord Bob said:
If you're going to be the kind of idiot that can't understand that the question inherent in "if" was rhetorical, then you should go find a forum for people with English as their second language.

On the other hand, if you're not being an idiot you have nothing to be offended over, because of my use of "if".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
depends, are you (specific) using the general or the specific "you" here? if it's the specific one you (specifc) are very much implying that by disagreeing with you (specfic) i am an idiot.
Deations said:
Oh come on, if you're going to be an idiot maybe you should post on hugboxes like the Exalted thread on Sufficient Velocity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
again difference between general "you" and specfic "you", interesting that you (specific) think a it was directed at you (specific) personally especially considering exactly one person is quoted and they're not you (specific).

to avoid confusion i noted which "you" i am using, for those who can't read context cues.
 
Last edited:
notthepenguins said:
Disingenuous? Who said that? I'm just indicating that your arguments are pretty shoddy in large part because you don't seem to be able to understand what the actual problems people are having are.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Okay, let me clarify that I don't like being told I'm being disingenuous by Aleph when I'm trying to argue in good faith.

I know what problems she's having, she's laid them all out quite clearly. I can make a rebuttal, but I'm not sure what that would do beyond getting told I'm just trying to silence the truth/deliberately acting in bad faith.

Carrnage said:
depends, are you (specific) using the general or the specific "you" here? if it's the specific one you (specifc) are very much implying that by disagreeing with you (specfic) i am an idiot.

again difference between general "you" and specfic "you", interesting that you (specific) think a it was directed at you (specific) personally especially considering exactly one person is quoted and they're not you (specific).

to avoid confusion i noted which "you" i am using, for those who can't read context cues.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If we want to talk about missing context, then please keep in mind that I was called out by name in the fucking sentence immediately preceding the one I quoted. God!
 
Last edited:
Dark Lord Bob said:
If you're going to be the kind of idiot that can't understand that the question inherent in "if" was rhetorical, then you should go find a forum for people with English as their second language.

On the other hand, if you're not being an idiot you have nothing to be offended over, because of my use of "if".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hey hey hey. This is insulting to the large number of SVer's who speak English as a second language.
 
Um, by the way if we're going to throw that out, I'd just like it put on the record that Punjabi is my first language, English my second.
 
notanautomaton said:
Hey hey hey. This is insulting to the large number of SVer's who speak English as a second language.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sorry, it was the third thing that came to mind as an insulting analogue of "Go to another site." I'm not sure whether Simple Wikipedia has corresponding simple forums, and 4chan isn't the right kind of insulting.

I freely (and sadly) admit that as someone who just speaks English I am woefully uneducated. When I get time I intend to fix that, but right now I have to suffer in mediocrity.
 
Deations said:
I'm sorry for getting a bit snarky after being told I can't handle her being negative and needing a hugbox, it's just a bit too ironic for me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Don't be. The only person it hurts is you.

Considering that there has been at least one person who has been vehemently defending 3E and has said "you don't like it, tough fucking shit" she does have the ground to stand on. Especially since your response isn't that you aren't doing this. It's that nobody is doing this. In fact, you say "Aleph, nobody is trying to oppress or silence you by disagreeing with you." Yet...

Fenrir666 said:
Oh my FUCKING GOD. YES! THE CHARMS ARE GOING IN DIRECTIONS YOU DON'T LIKE! TOUGH. FUCKING. SHIT. Clearly, it's not the game you were hoping for! Some of us feel like 3rd Edition delievered on everything it promised and more. Plenty of us love the new directions! You are not fucking everybody! Not everybody wants something different! If you don't like the new directions, too bad. Sucks for you. You're gonna need to do some homebrewing.


And that won't happen. Because it's obviously not the game you want. And it isn't gonna change now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is a post. That was said. By a defender of Exalted 3E. Are you saying this post doesn't exist? Or that it's a false flag attack by the Technocratic Union Exalted 3E hate brigade? Because as long as this is a post that was actually said and this poster's response to a rather moderate statement about this being for negative as well as positive discussion was this:

Fenrir666 said:
Because this is the community that first got me into Exalted. It hurts me to see all the constant negativity, particularly the times where people didn't actually read the book first. But you're right. I need to take my own advice. 3E isn't for you. This Exalted community isn't for me anymore. I'll just stop coming to this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You're not going to get very far with the "stop ranting and raving about an imaginary demand" defense because someone in fact did make it.

(Also, losing that "Do not believe what the scientists tell you" thing that was in 2 editions is apparently not a betrayal of the core themes of Exalted yet using junks instead of triremes is? Weird.)
 
Last edited:
Hello ladies and gentlemen.

As the post with the charm trees for third edition was incredibly useful, I decided to try and make something that might be helpful for those who tend to go the munchkin way.

It's a list of the essence 5, ability 5 charms on the book, and how many charms you need to take in order to get them. There are quite a few abilities that don't have essence 5 charms. When those have essence 4 charms I have included them (with the due note), and when their highest required essence is 3 I have written "nothing".

Surprisingly, it seems that -excepting Solar Circle Sorcery-, there are no essence 5 charms that are out of the reach of a sufficiently determined character, especially if you try to go for the socialize or craft ones, especially "At your service": 17 charms. 15 from Character Creation, plus 2 with bonus points. Ouch.

I should clarify that the amounts were taken using the charm trees provided in this thread, not by going through the book.

I hope this can spark some fruitful exchange of ideas.

Regards



Archery:

Whispered prayer of judgment, 7.

Athletics:

Living Wind Approach, 7; Nine Aeons Thew, 6.

Awareness:

Eye of the Unconquered Sun (Essence 4), 5; dedicated unerring ear (essence 4), 4.

Brawl:

Apocalypse Flare attack, 5; Ascendant Battle Visage, 8.

Bureaucracy:

Order-Conferring Action, 5.

Craft:

Exegesis of the Distilled Form, 12. Spirit-Stoking Elevation, +1.

Sun-Heart Tenacity, 12 (14 if you take Exegesis). Wonder-Forging Genius, 15; Dual Magnus Prana, 16 (requires terrestrial sorcery).

Dodge:

Refinement of Flowing Shadows, 5.

Integrity:

Nothing

Investigation:

Mind Manse Meditation, 10.

Larceny:

Unbroken Darkness Approach, 12.

Linguistics:

Perfect Celestial Author (essence 4), 6.

Lore:

God-King's Shrike, 6; Incalculable Flowing Mind, 8; Unstoppable Magnus Approach, +3.

Savant of Nine Glories, 9.

Medicine:

Immaculate Solar Physician, 6; Perfect Celestial Chirurgeon, +1.

Melee:

Protection of Celestial Bliss, 5; Circle of Bright Reaving, 7.

Occult:

Note: Solar Circle Sorcery can't be taken with the effect of a Supernal Ability.

Ephemeral Induction Technique, 11; Spirit-Drawing Occulus, 5.

Performance:

Soul Voice, 5; Pivotal Encore Performance, +1.

Presence:

Countenance of Vast Wrath (essence 4), 4.

Resistance:

Aegis of invincible might, 7.

Ride:

Nothing

Sail:

Nothing

Socialize:

Fugue-Empowered Other, 10; Soul Reprisal +1.

At your service, 17.

Stealth:

False Image Feint (essence 4), 7

Fivefold Shadow Burial (essence 4), 8.

Survival:

Nothing

Thrown:

Cutting Circle of Destruction, 5.

War:

Nothing.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top