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General Exalted Thread

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Are you telling me the devs finally gave an ok system for me to make my own Excalibur or, god forbid, Ea without begging on all fours to the storyteller?
 
ryuan said:
Are you telling me the devs finally gave an ok system for me to make my own Excalibur or, god forbid, Ea without begging on all fours to the storyteller?
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Well, yes and no. Artifact N/A creation is no longer a matter of pure ST fiat; there are actual mechanics for it. However, that only covers the crafting; you'll still need to gather whatever epic materials the ST deems necessary.

(Also, you could probably get a pretty good FSN Excalibur expy with an Artifact 5 daiklave and heavy investment in Evocations.)
 
Vanigo said:
Well, yes and no. Artifact N/A creation is no longer a matter of pure ST fiat; there are actual mechanics for it. However, that only covers the crafting; you'll still need to gather whatever epic materials the ST deems necessary.

(Also, you could probably get a pretty good FSN Excalibur expy with an Artifact 5 daiklave and heavy investment in Evocations.)
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Probably be orichalum with blue jade, for the control over wind, but I could also see straight blue jade working. I remember that someone was stating out the various noble phantasms as 3e artifacts, but I can't remember who it was.
 
notanautomaton said:
Probably be orichalum with blue jade, for the control over wind, but I could also see straight blue jade working. I remember that someone was stating out the various noble phantasms as 3e artifacts, but I can't remember who it was.
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Yeah, Orichalcum and blue jade is what I was thinking - even the colors are right. (I don't think you could get an excaliblast out of straight blue jade, though.) This means combining Excalibur and Invisible Air into one artifact, of course, but that's fine; it makes for a more interesting set of evocations.
 
Aleph said:
Uh, speaking as a PC, if I try to drop DMP in front of an NPC who's used AESS in the past scene, or indeed if any of my co-players do so, my brain is going to slam on the brakes and go "uh, no, bullshit". I mean, with that sort of logic - "it doesn't matter if you can trivially render a character's powers impotent without them even getting a resist roll" - where the hell is the challenge? You might as well give PCs an automatic I Win button, if you're letting them invalidate any attempt at NPC resistance like that.
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Well, part of being an ST is knowing what your players want and respecting that. If your character is the Ultimate Master of Perception, I'd think most STs would take that into consideration before doing something that might take that way from you, the same way they should think before having an Abyssal gank a character's wife.

When a PC is using it on an NPC, though... remember, we're not talking about a power that gives you carte blanche to override NPCs all the time in all circumstances. The purpose of charms (and the mechanics, in general) is to make for good stories, and something like Zeal is bad because it leads to dumb stories. But conversely, this means that when some part of the mechanics would get in the way of a good story, the game can ignore them (and even introduce charms that, within a specific context, instruct you to ignore them). It's not something to do lightly, but Dual Magnus Prana is straight-up one of the hardest charms in the game to get (E5, A5 + A3, 14 prerequisites), as well as being one of the most expensive to use. It's not going to set a precedent where every single NPC is now a cakewalk for you.
 
Aquillion said:
God-King's Shrike and Dual Magnus Prana are powers that, I think, aren't likely to cause any problems when used by PCs against NPCs. They could cause problems if used carelessly against PCs; but I don't feel that the purpose of the game's mechanics is (or can be) to protect you from poor STs.
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So, stop. Please stop right there. "This power is in the book and looks pretty cool, I should use it in building this totally cool Solar antagonist boss" is a perfectly reasonable chain of logic, particularly for a new ST. You're putting way too much burden on the ST, instead of acknowledging that these options basically constitute traps for a relative novice to the art.
 
Random Entity said:
So, stop. Please stop right there. "This power is in the book and looks pretty cool, I should use it in building this totally cool Solar antagonist boss" is a perfectly reasonable chain of logic, particularly for a new ST. You're putting way too much burden on the ST, instead of acknowledging that these options basically constitute traps for a relative novice to the art.
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If it helps, I was told that Dual Magnus Prana is one of the charms on the list for removal, along with quite a few other charms, in the final version of 3E. The book is currently too big to actually print in physical form, you see.

Which I might not like, but some other people definitely will? :ogles:

EDIT: For clarity's sake, I wanted to say that this isn't a guarantee, just that the most I got when the arguments over Dual Magnus Prana was brought to the Devs' attention was 'we're more likely to remove it than keep it anyways.'
 
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samdamandias said:
Which Yozis/Primordials would pay child support, and what form would that support take? I am now curious as to what other people think on this matter.
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Ebon dragon would pay child support in the form of a tidy sum of money and various artifacts with odd effects.

When the child is grown up and established all the money will disapear even the spent money will be replaced with debt.
 
Aleph said:
Of course, Adorjan finding you hilarious and adorable is still not a good place to be. Her first date with my Scourge left Keris with 3 Agg damage to the everywhere and a baby Pantheon soul following her around like a duckling made of murderwind.

(Adorjan declined to pay child support.)
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Excuse me! Adorjan had quite mutely indicated Keris she just wanted to teach her! It's Keris who refused to accept that she got studentzoned.

Also, I'd like to point out that Keris hasn't even told Adorjan that Echo exists. How is she meant to pay child support if she hasn't even been told? I'm sure she'd help out with all the important thing any growing child needs - you know, like knives, lessons in the pain of personal attachment, and daycare with the Four Winds.
 
Carrnage said:
Ebon dragon would pay child support in the form of a tidy sum of money and various artifacts with odd effects.

When the child is grown up and established all the money will disapear even the spent money will be replaced with debt.
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That actually sounds more like something that Metagos would do. I would personally imagine that the Ebon Dragon would give child support in the form of money gained from criminal activities in order to frame the other parent. I also imagine that the Ebon Dragon would give the child inappropriate presents that encourage bad behavior. I am strongly reminded of this video when I think of the Ebon Dragon as a parent.
 
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samdamandias said:
Which Yozis/Primordials would pay child support, and what form would that support take? I am now curious as to what other people think on this matter.
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Kimberry would pay lavish child support in the form of valuable stones set in coral formed into grotesque statues. For a while anyway, before she switches to reviling her wayward child and sends poisonous acid baked in sponge cake instead.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
Kimberry would pay lavish child support in the form of valuable stones set in coral formed into grotesque statues. For a while anyway, before she switches to reviling her wayward child and sends poisonous acid baked in sponge cake instead.
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Nah.

Kimbery refuses to accept that anyone but her can have custody, and will send the acid waves of her hatred to drown both the other partner and the family court which decided against her.
 
I think my biggest disappointment with 3e at the moment is the Limit system.

The rules put the ST in the position of choosing a characters Virtue Flaw for them, and then choosing when Limit Break happens according to their own idea of what's dramatically appropriate. That is a lot of decisions where, without actively trying to be an arsehole, the ST can screw over what a player finds fun about their character without meaning to. It doesn't help that some of the advice they have for doing so - things showing their clear intent for use cases - are the kind that are really easy to mess up, or are messed up to begin with.

(berserk anger in a crowded marketplace, guys)

(what the actual hell)

I mean, a good group can solve this by having a conversation about these things, but as it stands, the system encourages a mindset of the ST imposing Bad Things upon the player as and when they choose, which can so easily lead to stepping on landmines. That is not, I think, a mindset that needs or warrants encouragement, but as it stands the system seems to encourage not having a conversation about this matter ahead of time.

If the ST wants to let a player choose their virtue flaw, the ST has to go out of their way to mention, "by the way, you choose your own Virtue Flaw". If the player wants to choose their own virtue flaw, they have to convince the ST to give up control of a game mechanic to them. The two actions are unequal, and either requires more effort than if the rules simply suggested that both parties should collaborate to choose a Virtue Flaw, and if either party would prefer not to have control over it, they can just cede control.
 
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horngeek said:
I'll be honest, my initial read of Limit in 3e was that the break didn't actually have a set nature.
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That is correct; the Virtue Flaw is whichever is deemed more appropriate to the current circumstances of the Limit Break. Though I don't think anyone here said the opposite, it's better to be clear.
 
Ct613hulu said:
That actually sounds more like something that Metagos would do. I would personally imagine that the Ebon Dragon would give child support in the form of money gained from criminal activities in order to frame the other parent. I also imagine that the Ebon Dragon would give the child inappropriate presents that encourage bad behavior. I am strongly reminded of this video when I think of the Ebon Dragon as a parent.
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ebon dragon is also very anti-establishment and pro-new-things, hence the supporting the child until they become a complacent part of an establishment then destroying them financially.
 
notanautomaton said:
Probably be orichalum with blue jade, for the control over wind, but I could also see straight blue jade working. I remember that someone was stating out the various noble phantasms as 3e artifacts, but I can't remember who it was.
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That would be me :p.

Personally, so far as Excalibur goes, I'd probably move Invisible Air to Hearthstone with Evocations, ala the Freedom Stone, and combine Avalon and Excalibur into one Artifact for granting evocations. Given the way Evocations work, putting a perfect defense in an Artifact is a lot less sketchy then in 2e.
 
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