- Location
- Singapore
Ah, thank you.
Anyway, @Shyft , thank you. But can you at least tell me if I did the damage calculation correctly?
General Exalted Thread
Anyway, @Shyft , thank you. But can you at least tell me if I did the damage calculation correctly?
- Location
- Gladstone, OR
more or less, the issue was that you forgot to account for the attack roll (successes over DV). You did get the general idea right, in that if the raw damage is less than or equal to hardness, the attack is nullified outright. You just thought Hardness applied after rolling damage. (Maybe it does in 3e, but I was describing 2e).
- Location
- Singapore
I didn't.
But at last! I understand at least 1 thing about exalted's systems!
Time for the other 20!
- Location
- Singapore
Ok, a sorcerer is using burning eyes of the offender.
A mortal soldier trying to slay her before she blasts him to bits using butterflies takes aim and fire.
Ok, she's using burning eyes of the offender. That's 3 down against anyone trying to shoot her.
The soldier is aiming. He gets 4d to hit the sorcerer.
it gets bumped own to 1 due to burning eyes.
Attacking is all at difficulty 1.
No dice.
He misses.
Am I ok with this?
A mortal soldier trying to slay her before she blasts him to bits using butterflies takes aim and fire.
Ok, she's using burning eyes of the offender. That's 3 down against anyone trying to shoot her.
The soldier is aiming. He gets 4d to hit the sorcerer.
it gets bumped own to 1 due to burning eyes.
Attacking is all at difficulty 1.
No dice.
He misses.
Am I ok with this?
- Location
- Gladstone, OR
Pretty sure yeah. if Burning Eyes reduces incoming attack pools, the attacker only has 1d to attack with. Now, this is a complex edge case, because all attack actions have base difficulty 1- you have to roll 1 success to 'attack' correctly. But then you have to apply to DV. So the attack roll is always [Rolled successes -1 Difficulty - defender's DV] = Successes Over DV.
If the attack pool is reduced to zero, then it is rendered Inapplicable and cannot be rolled/autofails. Having 1d allows you to stunt and roll.
- Location
- Singapore
...but this is a mortal. He can't roll.
So just to make sure, there's nothing preventing a sorcerer from directing 'death by obsidian butterflies' downward, right?
- Location
- Singapore
Ok, I'm looking at modern exalted, and a bunch of other things, so 2 scenarios:
1. Rocket launcher.
Its fired at the sorcerer using skin of bronze. The damage is basically 10L. On average, 2 dice equals to 1 success. And thus, there are 5 lethals of damage. With skin of bronze, there is 6 hardness. And so, the sorcerer takes a rocket launcher to the face and walks it off. Is this correct?
2. A fix beetle is lost in creation. Wandering into a forge, a smith laments on how he must finish a sword, but has no time. Thus, the fix beetle, in a fit of pique, starts to help. Assuming that this is a typical fix beetle, it has craft 5, with a specialty in repair. With intelligence 2, that means it has 7 dice to craft anything. Grabbing the raw materials, it starts to work.
Ok, assuming that 2 dice equals to 1 success, and we round up, this means that it gets 4 successes. The fix beetle succeeds in creating the resources 1 short sword. The cost is 1. Thus, it gets 3 extra successes. Thus, it is what is referred to as fine short sword. The smith is delighted.
3. A dude has pissed off Lucien. Lucien has stealth 6, dexterity 5. Eleven dice to hide. 5 successes. The dude is slightly above average, with 3 in perception and awareness. 6 dice. They roll. 3 successes against 5. Lucien is in hiding. Lucien comes out, and then ganks the guy while he's asleep. Mission accomplished.
4. Lucien can copy minds as well as forms. does that mean he can literally look at a person, and then know the entire person's memory at will?
5. I've been looking at the elemental control, and it says stackable. Does that mean that it can be repurchased again, or does it mean that the effects increase as essence increases?
6. Let's say I wish to use mutations as superpowers. First of all, what kind of damage is natural missile have? Secondly, can I create telekinesis using say, the extra limb with the subtlety merit slapped onto it?
1. Rocket launcher.
Its fired at the sorcerer using skin of bronze. The damage is basically 10L. On average, 2 dice equals to 1 success. And thus, there are 5 lethals of damage. With skin of bronze, there is 6 hardness. And so, the sorcerer takes a rocket launcher to the face and walks it off. Is this correct?
2. A fix beetle is lost in creation. Wandering into a forge, a smith laments on how he must finish a sword, but has no time. Thus, the fix beetle, in a fit of pique, starts to help. Assuming that this is a typical fix beetle, it has craft 5, with a specialty in repair. With intelligence 2, that means it has 7 dice to craft anything. Grabbing the raw materials, it starts to work.
Ok, assuming that 2 dice equals to 1 success, and we round up, this means that it gets 4 successes. The fix beetle succeeds in creating the resources 1 short sword. The cost is 1. Thus, it gets 3 extra successes. Thus, it is what is referred to as fine short sword. The smith is delighted.
3. A dude has pissed off Lucien. Lucien has stealth 6, dexterity 5. Eleven dice to hide. 5 successes. The dude is slightly above average, with 3 in perception and awareness. 6 dice. They roll. 3 successes against 5. Lucien is in hiding. Lucien comes out, and then ganks the guy while he's asleep. Mission accomplished.
4. Lucien can copy minds as well as forms. does that mean he can literally look at a person, and then know the entire person's memory at will?
5. I've been looking at the elemental control, and it says stackable. Does that mean that it can be repurchased again, or does it mean that the effects increase as essence increases?
6. Let's say I wish to use mutations as superpowers. First of all, what kind of damage is natural missile have? Secondly, can I create telekinesis using say, the extra limb with the subtlety merit slapped onto it?
No. Hardness looks at damage dice, not successes.
- Location
- Singapore
Damn. Can you explain?
I was under the impression that when you hit, you roll the number of dice in terms of damage. The successes would be counted as actual damage. So if the rocket launcher said 10L, it means you roll 10 dice, and then if you get 5 successes you inflict 5 lethal.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
It means exactly what Shyft said, dude. Hardness looks at damage dice before you roll, not the successes that come from rolling.
The way it works is that Hardness and Soak are compared to the number of dice being rolled. If Hardness is more than those dice, then it's stopped entirely, and if not, Soak is subtracted from those dice. Then the remaining dice are rolled. Minimum Damage is the amount of dice you roll if you beat Hardness, but the Soak is higher than the total damage.
...Some things give automatic successes on Damage. These not only are treated as ordinary dice by Soak and Hardness, but are actually removed first by Soak.
No, this is wrong. He has 4 dice base, -3 from ow-my-eyes, for a total of 1. Difficulty isn't subtracted from the number of dice you roll, so he rolls his one die. He's not going to hit unless the sorcerer can't apply his DVs, but he does get to roll.
You do know that you have to actually roll the dice, not just take the number of dice and divide by two, right?
AmineHsu
A worm, not a man, scorned and despised.
- Location
- NoVA
Note, damage dice don't normally double 10s, so it's more like 3 successes.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
I want you to open up the core book to page 145, because we're going to go through the steps of an attack to see why you're wrong (mostly).
- Declaration of Attack: "I fire my rocket launcher."
- Defender Declares Response: "The sorcerer raises his arms in front of his face to block the rocket." This is where perfect parries activate.
- Attack Roll: We're going to mostly ignore this step, because we're focusing on damage. We're just going to assume the attack roll gets the sorcerer's DV+1 in successes.
- Attack Reroll: This is where attackers activate their 3rd Excellency.
- Subtract External Penalties/Apply Special Defenses: Basically what it says.
- Defense Reroll: This is where defenders activate their 3rd Excellency.
- Calculate Raw Damage: This is where we figure out how much dice you start off with; in this case, because it's DV+1 successes, it's 10L +1 = 11L.
- Apply Hardness and Soak, Roll Damage: This is where you're getting confused. This step is basically 3 steps shoved together, and I'll break them down below. This is also where perfect soaks activate.
- Counterattacks: You then go through steps 1-8 on any counterattacks made.
- Apply Results: And this is where the damage is actually applied; everything prior was just figuring out what happened in this step.
- Apply Hardness: Hardness is applied to the raw damage, which is a dice pool and does not include anything that has been rolled (so success chances are irrelevant. It's basically "do I have more dice of raw damage than their hardness?" If the answer is yes, continue. If the answer is now, the attack does no damage. In your proposed scenario, we have 11L of raw damage compared to 6L of Hardness, so we continue to soak.
- Apply Soak: Soak is subtracted from raw damage, reducing the number of dice rolled. I'm going to assume this sorcerer is mortal and only using the spell for armor, so their relevant soak is 6L. Subtracting this from our raw damage we get a damage of 5L.
- Roll Damage: You were putting this ahead of the first two, which is where you were getting confused. Damage doesn't get double successes on 10s, so rather than an average of 1 success per 2 dice it's 0.8 successes per 2 dice (or 0.4 successes per die), so 0.4*5 = 2 levels of lethal damage.
4 successes. 4/10 results on each die are a success.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
If you look at how many successes you get for different possible results on most dice, you have:
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2
That averages out to about 0.5 successes per die. Since damage dice switch the 2 for a 1, they get 0.4.
(And this end's azoicEnnead's Rule of Thumb guide to Exalted dice pools.)
edit: Counterattacks go through steps 1-8, not 1-9.
Last edited:
- Location
- Singapore
Oh, i meant stunts.
Yeah, but I'm not sure on where to get a dice roller.
So with a soak of 6L, and a hardness of 6L, then what happens? 4 dice of damage?
edit: nevermind.
Last edited:
AmineHsu
A worm, not a man, scorned and despised.
- Location
- NoVA
I'm an idiot who hasn't actually played Exalted in so long I forgot 7s were successes.=>_<=
- Location
- Singapore
This only helps illustrate exactly why the 10 Steps of Resolution are Vitally Important to understanding the game, and why Ex3 rolling them back to a vaguely-defined Six-ish was an enormous mistake.
Could they have been more clear? Most certainly, the "reroll" for Defenses in Step 6 was largely superfluous, Step 8 of Damage calculation is an unholy trainwreck of conflated rolling, modifiers and traits, etc, but that's an argument for standardization/streamlining rather than outright removal.
in the box, replacing X with however many dice in your pool, to go Roller and change the number in the smaller box by "Output 1" to how many times you wish to roll that pool. It will list the number of successes you got each time. If rolling for mortals/no Double-Tens, change the last "2" into a 1 and hit Calculate again to reset it, and vice-versa.
If you want autosuccesses added/subtracted after, tag the number onto the end of the code like,
So this will always roll 5 dice and add +3 onto it after.
Could they have been more clear? Most certainly, the "reroll" for Defenses in Step 6 was largely superfluous, Step 8 of Damage calculation is an unholy trainwreck of conflated rolling, modifiers and traits, etc, but that's an argument for standardization/streamlining rather than outright removal.
You can use AnyDice for the most part, just paste the code:
Code:
output Xd {0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,2}If you want autosuccesses added/subtracted after, tag the number onto the end of the code like,
Code:
output 5d {0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,2}+3
Last edited:
- Location
- Singapore
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
The 3e system isn't so much confusing as badly defined. It's not hard to find a situation where the rules literally don't tell you what to do. Hell, even just "if I attack a guy, and he uses a charm to defend, can I respond by using an attack charm? And if I do, can he then use another charm?" isn't clear. 2e's ten-step resolution gives an easy answer to that question - the attacker picks all his charms, then the defender goes. 3e is totally silent on the matter.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
Yeah, making mechanics more vague is a really poor solution; it would have been more sensible to have a 12 step process (as it actually is) rather than getting ride of the system pieces that allowed for a standardized counter-attack mechanic rather than having to always include the rules for clarity (or just being unclear).
I disagree that Step 6 is superfluous - certainly no more than Step 4. If rerolls are common (as they are), then they should have a standard location in attack resolution.
AnyDice is a probability calculator, not a dice roller (though the dice roller wasn't really necessary for what was being discussed).
For those calculations, though, I use
Code:
output [count {7, 8, 9, 10, 10} in xd10]
Code:
output [count {7, 8, 9, 10, 10} in xd10]+y
- Location
- New York City
Exalted Third Edition page 251 said:
You're using a poor example for a point that's otherwise generally correct. That's the second paragraph under "Using Charms and Charm Limitations" inthe Charms Chapter.
More of a point that, as static-values DVs never get "rolled" in the first place, and anything which demands a roll to modify an attack/DV/contested pool is either a Reflexive which can occur essentially on whatever Step it pleases (like forcing a reroll-use-lowest-result on the attack in Step 4), and/or does so before you ever reach Step 6. Defensive rerolls themselves simply become a modifier bonus onto the final DV-calculation post-applying successes, which is confusing in of itself as part of the context of not being a form of "special defense" noted by Step 5.
That's before getting into the rules which sidestepped tagging their placement in Steps 4-6 because only Reflexive Charms were allowed to note what part of the Resolution were being modified. Its sort of a big mess under the hood which really needed a few more editing passes.
Last edited:
Huh. Did that get changed between the leak and the release version, or am I just crazy?