Only beings who may bind a demon under the Surrender Oaths may offer this release to a demon. The Infernal Exalted, who have no rights there and instead command Cecelynian Law.

@EarthScorpion , your section on using the Allies background to Anchor demons seems to cut off. Are you intending to say that Infernals need to buy the Allies background to gain the benefits from their souls, or that they can't use the Allies backgrounds for demonic anchors at all?
 
I take it that this phrasing excludes easily created wealth, such as making giant emeralds through Principle-Invoking Onslaught.

I understand the intent to make demons behave more like classical demons, but I also think it might be too harsh. Hell-support is on of the Infernal's best (and only) assets. Making each demon consume difficult resources puts more pressure on them than a Solar raising a human army or a Lunar cultivating a beastman horde.

Yes. Fundamentally, the game as it exists devalues Resources compared to other Backgrounds, so I have no choice but to prevent Resources from being used as an Anchor background. It's too easy come; easy go.

And I strongly disagree that it's too harsh on Infernals. There is literally nothing stopping them from raising a human army or raising a beastman horde, if they feel like it - and indeed, it isn't even a real limit on 1CDs. It is a limit on 2CDs and 3CDs, but come on; 2CDs and 3CDs need a limit (especially 2CDs, actually - one 3CD a year is in many ways easier to manage than 15 2CDs). A spell which let you summon a Dragonblooded once a month as your devoted slave wouldn't be okay

On top of that, demonic binding gives you a perfectly loyal servant. So, no, in your later comment, when you say "And it's not like you'd have 15 perfectly loyal supersoldiers" the problem is that that's exactly what it gets you. The fact that they're not necessarily sane by human standards does not make them disloyal - and players will gravitate to the demons whose issues they can most easily handle. That's really the root of "okay, so they're loyal Allies - so you need to lock up backgrounds equal to their Ally rating to make use of them".

The background cost serves as a price that doesn't require GM brainspace to handle. And yes, that is at a premium - a GM cannot be reasonably expected to handle the player handling even 5 2CDs at once, even before we run into the ol' issue of "My PC has high Occult, Bureaucracy and Socialise and is more intelligent than me - surely they can casually devise a plan to account for all their demons' weirdness if i just succeed on this excellency boosted roll".

(Also, note that a 2CD can still be used for 14 days if you don't have the backgrounds to commit to them. They just can't be used in direct sunlight.)

@EarthScorpion , your section on using the Allies background to Anchor demons seems to cut off. Are you intending to say that Infernals need to buy the Allies background to gain the benefits from their souls, or that they can't use the Allies backgrounds for demonic anchors at all?

Good catch there, incomplete thought chain.

Basically, the idea here is that a demon can "loophole" an Ally into existence. If someone with the authority to bind a given demon under the Surrender Oaths gives them permission to stay in Creation, they can use that permission as an Ally background to stay while dancing around at Heaven and going "neener neener neener, I have explicit permission". So a Solar who's unwise with their words can serve as an Anchor for a Third Circle, while a Celestial who doesn't think about what they're saying can serve as an anchor for a Second Circle. This is specifically a one-sided cheat by the demon, who gives nothing in return but counts you as an Ally because you're letting them stay in Creation.

This is quite a weak form of anchoring, because if the character who gave the permission revokes it, they stop serving as an anchor and the demon has not very long to find another one (and also may be burning up in the sunlight). But what a demon with this can do is move freely, which lets them work on building up a cult and so on. And suddenly because you fucked up and gave an unbound demon a loophole, you've let Hell have more influence in Creation.

(The moral of this story is that when negotiating with unbound demons, watch your tongue and you should probably let the Eclipse with the Bureaucracy and Socialise focus do it, rather than the Dawn who put all their points into stabby stab-stab. And also that you should finish all your conversations with demons with a ritual farewell, which includes a demand that they return to Hell.)

Infernals cannot be used for this by demons, because they don't have those rights under the Surrender Oaths.

On the other hand, with a formal demonic contract, you can use more powerful demons as familiars (that mechanically are treated as Allies, rather than using the Demonic Familiar background). And Infernals - and even people who can't bind demons at all - can do this, as long as they're valuable enough as an Ally. With this demonic contract, the unbound demon and the character are Allies of one another. As long as the demon serves as the character's Ally, they can use them as an Ally-Anchor. In this case, they're a much more classic Ally - with things they will and won't do - who just happens to be a demon.

You can probably only have one such contract, though.

(Incidentally, marrying a demon can be a form of familiar contract like this, in case Alevua is ur waifu)
 
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Demon of the Second Circle is required to summon 2CDs.

And it's not like you'd have 15 perfectly loyal supersoldiers. You'd have 15 powerful independent people with very odd quirks, desires and requirements. Just like binding a Blood Ape to guard an area could result in it killing everyone in a mile radius, telling a 2CD to support your army could result in wacky hijinks outside your expectations. Like maybe killing the conscripts to "purify" your fighting force.

Rather than start putting supply caps on your demons, make them tricky to use appropriately. What's more interesting, playing resource management or (in)human management?
Balancing both, since odd quirks and desires don't actually change the fact that fifteen 2CDs for zero upkeep cost is broken. Demon summoning is the most powerful spell in the entire gameline; it needs nerfing.
 
Que? Abhorrence of Life is Ramethus' Neverborn self, from what I remember.
No. The Primordial who became the Abhorrence of Life was killed during the Primordial War and was instrumental to Gorol switching sides. Ramethus was slain in the Aftershock War.
MoEP: Infernals page 50 said:
Gorol and his circle succeeded in slaying the fetich soul of the Primordial who would later become the Neverborn now
known as the Abhorrence of Life, but at the cost of all four of Gorol's circle-mates. Perhaps his presence at the destruction of one of the Primordials gave Gorol a special insight into the Great Curse that eluded his brethren. Perhaps the Night Caste was the victim of some final mental assault from
the dying Primordial. Or perhaps the blasphemous energies unleashed by the Primordial's demise, combined with survivor guilt, simply drove Gorol mad.
 
Since we are talking about the Unconquered Sun's light burning demons who walk around without an anchor...does this mean 'unbound demon x' is walking around with some kind of magically created cloak (probably from some kind of magical creature or a skinned Night-Caste) to shield them from the sun's rays? I'm thinking the Sith-Lord Robe, or an Akatuksi cloak. It probably counts as a 'weak anchor' in this and if you just knock their hat/cowl of they suddenly start screaming, but from getting from A to B to start building that cult, or sneaking around trying to avoid Sidreal attention it might suffice (at least for Second Circles.) This probably means that if you walk into a town in a ominous black cloak people are going to be a bit nervous of you, if only because of the legends of the demons who pulled this trick...
 
On the other hand, with a formal demonic contract, you can use more powerful demons as familiars (that mechanically are treated as Allies, rather than using the Demonic Familiar background). And Infernals - and even people who can't bind demons at all - can do this, as long as they're valuable enough as an Ally. With this demonic contract, the unbound demon and the character are Allies of one another. As long as the demon serves as the character's Ally, they can use them as an Ally-Anchor. In this case, they're a much more classic Ally - with things they will and won't do - who just happens to be a demon.

You can probably only have one such contract, though.

(Incidentally, marrying a demon can be a form of familiar contract like this, in case Alevua is ur waifu)

All of those undocumented demonic immigrants and their darned citizenship marriages! :V
 
I'm far from completely sold on the Demon Princes burn in sunlight if only because it instantly makes me think "Vampire" instead of demon.

Instead calling back to how 1CD with 0 willpower get sucked back into hell: I'd change it to the following

"While a greater demon lacks a sufficient anchor, the light of the sun burns terribly. A demon lord or a demon prince without a sufficient Anchor losses one Willpower per minute from direct sunlight, or one Willpower per hour on overcast days."

So instead of say Jancit burning under the light of the sun unsupported by any Anchor instead he's slowly being dragged back into Malfeas, faster even if he can be tapped for willpower:

As the gentle dawn lights falls upon Jancit ephemeral chains of golden light appear snaking around the Demon Princes form as if capturing and binding him. With every passing breath the chains become more and more real, with each chain link engraved beautifully with powerful oaths and vows. The Surrender Oaths made manifest weigh upon Jancit mightily slowly dragging him back into the prison that is Malfeas! With a deep snarl Jancit faces the circle and roars in anger "My time draws short but there's still enough to spill all your lives blood! Now die wretches!"
 
I'm far from completely sold on the Demon Princes burn in sunlight if only because it instantly makes me think "Vampire" instead of demon.

Instead calling back to how 1CD with 0 willpower get sucked back into hell: I'd change it to the following

"While a greater demon lacks a sufficient anchor, the light of the sun burns terribly. A demon lord or a demon prince without a sufficient Anchor losses one Willpower per minute from direct sunlight, or one Willpower per hour on overcast days."

So instead of say Jancit burning under the light of the sun unsupported by any Anchor instead he's slowly being dragged back into Malfeas, faster even if he can be tapped for willpower:

As the gentle dawn lights falls upon Jancit ephemeral chains of golden light appear snaking around the Demon Princes form as if capturing and binding him. With every passing breath the chains become more and more real, with each chain link engraved beautifully with powerful oaths and vows. The Surrender Oaths made manifest weigh upon Jancit mightily slowly dragging him back into the prison that is Malfeas! With a deep snarl Jancit faces the circle and roars in anger "My time draws short but there's still enough to spill all your lives blood! Now die wretches!"
I like this better.
 
And it's not like you'd have 15 perfectly loyal supersoldiers. You'd have 15 powerful independent people with very odd quirks, desires and requirements. Just like binding a Blood Ape to guard an area could result in it killing everyone in a mile radius, telling a 2CD to support your army could result in wacky hijinks outside your expectations. Like maybe killing the conscripts to "purify" your fighting force.

There is absolutely no game master in the world than can apropiately model the actions of fifteen summoned second circles at once. Giving each of them the narrative and mental space that they deserve (That is, each of them having their own plans and actions at each moment) is just imposible.

Which is why caping the caping the number of them that you can have in the party as any given time is imperative, even more than overpower concerns. Is the same reason why panopticon capped party size at four.

If yo have too many main characters on the board at the same time, they stop being main characters because they overload management capabilities, and the narrative suffers by it.
 
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(Incidentally, marrying a demon can be a form of familiar contract like this, in case Alevua is ur waifu)
She's beautiful and makes stuff for me. Why wouldn't she be my waifu? :V

Suleiman can back me up here, right Suleiman?

demons are creatures of darkness tho
Sunlight =/= Holy, though, otherwise you could just take that Charm from Glories that turns your Anima into Actual Sunlight and beat all the demons forever just by standing around being grossly incandescent.
 
Actually, you know, it makes sense. It was a joke, but think about it. For way too many demons, hell sucks. A lot. I mean, aren't there entire layers destroyed by the rampage of one psychotic Yozi or another? Nasty, Brutish, and Short.

If you can get a decent enough deal, staying on Creation, despite the fact that its sun normally tears into you, and everyone thinks you're evil, yada yada, might actually be pretty sweet as a deal.

...so if you can seduce some foolish mortal into thinking it's love (it can be two sided, sure, but I'm just saying!) and signing on the dotted line, well.

Seems like something that a lot of demons that had the right mindset would do. Which means there might be more Demon-blooded out there than you might think.
 
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Yes they have individual names, yes you can ask for any kind of Demon as long as you don't specifically ask for one that knows Sorcery.
Ah, good.

Well, when I looked at 2E thaumaturgy, I just had an idea. The thaumaturgist summons up a demon, and then after winning the contest of wills, gives out a deal. The thaumaturgist summons up the demon, keeping it safe from the horrors and dangers of Malfeas. And the demon works for it. For free. I think. Is the contest of wills a compulsory thing? Or is it something a demon can simply choose not to do.
 
ES Essay: On Dynasts and Hot Springs Episodes
You remember how the last one was all @Aleph's fault?

This is all @horngeek's fault.



Dynastic Hot Springs (and Sauna) Culture

Even more than beaches, the Scarlet Dynasty is fond of - and some might say obsessed by - hot springs. Fortunately, such things are common across their homeland and the prosperous satrapies of the South. In places where the geology is not conductive, they build their own heated pools and saunas - or sometimes call on sorcerers to crack the earth and force the geomancy into shape.

A defining aspects of the Dynasty in its own eyes is that they are civilised people, and civilised people are clean. This suffuses the culture of the Realm, with even the peasantry in most districts having access to public bathhouses, and permeates the Immaculate Order, which teaches that filth carries spiritual impurity and disease and which imposes cleansing routines before worship. When many Dynasts sneer at 'unclean barbarians' or 'rebel filth', the emphasis is often on how their enemies are physically dirty and thus spiritually corrupt. Some outsiders believe that this cultural neurosis might be a legacy of the decontamination protocols imposed to fight the Contagion, which were maintained in the Realm long after the rest of Creation had forgotten the old ways.

For all their sanctimony about personal cleanliness, one must not forget that Dynasts are a decadent people. While they assure outsiders that they are merely getting clean, in truth visits to bathhouses and hot springs are often a time of subtle yet vicious drama. The warm waters and steam cannot wash away a toxic brew of back-stabbing, politicking, affairs, assassination attempts, and judgemental mockery about physical appearance. Frequently, Dragonblooded will refuse to share their water with a mortal who might pollute them with their lack of enlightened wisdom - or at least one who isn't a spouse, an ally, or a courtesan.

Such behaviour is notably non-compliant with the Immaculate Order's teachings. The Order encourages communal bathing as both a bonding activity and a communal act of cleanliness and faith. While there are a few places where only the Terrestrials may bathe, those are usually places so sacred that they are forbidden to any who are not a monk or a nun, even if they are a Dragonblood. Of course, there is a recurring issue of Dynasts considering that to be a challenge, but the young and/or drunken idiots who desecrate a sacred spring usually find themselves being chased by angry Immaculate monks.

Hot Springs for Purity

As the Dynasty grows more decadent and corrupt, many of the more isolated Dragonblooded forget the religious meaning of these places. Still, it is central to the understanding of the ways of the Realm, even if it only 'feels right'. A hot spring, much like a beach, is a place where all the elements are in balance. The water is heated by fires and contained by the earth, plants grow strong, and the air should be fresh and healthy. It is a place one should go to cleanse oneself of impurity, to find one's centre and rebalance one's urges. Creation itself seems to recognise this. Many water-aspected demesnes and manses within mountainous regions take the form of springs; so, too, will fire-aspected places where the geomancy is wrong for volcanism. Even some Celestial demesnes follow suit; though the Order does not publicise it or welcome guests to such places, many Solar-aspected sacred places form hot spirits where the bright sun warms the water until it faintly glows.

Immaculate springs follow a highly regular and structured design, with initial separate-sex areas for the ritual purification, followed by a shared communal area. As part of the procedures, the monks and nuns overseeing the processes are expected to keep an eye out for any sign of Anathematic, chaotic, or demonic corruption, or signs of disease on the bodies of their followers. Such physical inspections are one of the ways that the Immaculate Order serves as a force against illness in areas where they operate, since signs of sudden outbreaks can be noticed early.

Hot Springs for Pleasure

The most lavish and ornate hot springs in the Realm are entirely private affairs, owned by a single House or the Imperial Household. Any guests who attend are merely there at the sufferance of their hosts, and inappropriate behaviour can result in century-long feuds. Of course, the definition of 'inappropriate' behaviour can vary wildly, and what some might consider simple good manners might result in a formal complaint by House Cynis for 'being a stick-in-the-mud who ruined the fun for everyone'. Such places often refuse to let mortals into any of the best pools, and when non-Dragonblooded are let in they are usually the spouses or children of Dynasts - or the entertainment.

Within the Realm itself, there are no real consensus as to whether a pleasure spring should be mixed-sex or have separate bathing areas for both genders. Often it depends on the precise geomancy of the location as to which would be preferable. For example, if there is a charming mountain view which would be ruined if a dividing wall were to be built, then both sexes bathe together; however, if the springs bubble up in two separate locations it is customarily taken as a sign that the Dragons wish for men and women to be kept separate. In more cosmopolitan areas and when building artificial springs or saunas, the custom is generally to build a large shared area, and then a number of smaller pools for the shy or easily embarrassed. The walls between the lesser pools and the main pool are built deliberately thin, so people bathing separately can still chat with their friends. This does have the unintended side-effect that couples looking for a little privacy may face embarrassment if they don't keep the noise down.

Of course, most Dynasts grow a little tired of simply sitting around in a pool of water. As a result, any hot springs worth its title will make sure to prevent guests from getting bored and making their own entertainment. A good supply of fine rice wines and spirits is a fine way to start, but most Dynasts will expect a lavish resort attached to the springs with masseuses, restaurants, a hunting estate, courtesans of both sexes, music and the other things required to truly enjoy a relaxing weekend.

Every few years there's a scandal that has to be hushed up as a member of a House is found dead in a pool. Sometimes it is because they overdosed and drowned; other times it's murder made to look like death by overindulgence, and sometimes it's suicide. "They became one with the Water Dragon" is the usual euphemism used to describe such deaths, while the Houses alternatively try to get to the bottom of things or cover up the embarrassment. Often, the task of investigation is given to a brotherhood of young Dynasts if the House doesn't want anything to be found, but has to be seen to be doing something.

Dynastic Bathing in the Threshold

In the cold of the North, the Dynasty tends to build saunas and heated pools to take the edge off the chill; sizable stone buildings heated with vast amounts of pinewood and the air seasoned with sandalwood braziers. The rarer hot springs are valued both by the Dragonblooded and by the locals; this has caused rebellions when the satrap appropriates a village and evicts its population so he can have somewhere to relax.

Dynasts in the South resort to bathhouses and hot springs with even more obsessiveness than ones in the Realm. The heat across much of the South is too much for aristocrats used to the temperate Realm. Fortunately, the common volcanism across the region means that they naturally form in many places. As a result of the painful humidity of the South West, some Dynasts essentially live in their bathhouses. The satrap of An Yu is infamous for taking reports while sitting in a hip bath of ice.

In the tropical West, there is less of a pressing need for such things. The sparkling turquoise waters have more than enough beaches that there is no need to build additional places to relax. However, if the island happens to be volcanic and have hot springs - well, the satrap won't be complaining.

Far in the East, water becomes scarce, as it becomes stored in the titanic trees that cover the landscape. Some Dynasts simply make use of rivers. However, in some regions cunning Wood aspects have bred the giant pitcher plants to be large enough to hold an entire brotherhood - plus guests! This has led to somewhat of a craze for all-vegetable bathhouses

Problems at the Hot Springs

Much like the beach, hot springs are a favoured place to attempt to assassinate Dynasts. One reason that most Dynasts are more comfortable bathing in company is that too much privacy merely leaves one vulnerable. Assassins jump through paper walls holding knives, crawl along the ceiling with garotte wires, or simply try to set the entire building on fire. Many of the traditional bathing tools are therefore quite solidly built and capable of being used to defend one's self in an emergency; a back-scraper makes a functional cudgel, while a brazier can be thrown as a chakram and a net meant for getting leaves out of the pool is a solid staff.

It is important to remember the difference between a pure hot spring guarded by monks, and one which exists only for pleasure. No small number of Dynasts forget the difference, and draw the ire of the Order. Such offences usually result in demands by angry monks to make up for sins through hard work. A Dynast who brought several bottles of rice wine into a ritual bathing pool, for example, may be sent to pay penance by chasing down a ghost haunting a nearby forest, while a hot-blooded Fire Aspect who murders a rival at a shrine may have the full force of the Order's wrath directed at them.

Many hot springs have elemental guardians of their own. Steam snakes are a breed of water elemental who exist as a mere cloud of vapour, while spring foxes are tricksters and pranksters who have a fondness for stealing clothes and sake. Elementals can be unpredictable and violent if offended, but many of them have been tamed in some regions and serve the House who owns the spring. It is said that there is a glorious spring on the slopes of Mount Meru which is the residence of an Elemental Dragon who runs a bathhouse for the gods - and only two humans have ever visited without being cursed; the Scarlet who came as an ally, and a little girl who stole something precious from the dragon and was possessed by a Lunar anathema for her crimes.

Alas, the endlessly scheming Anathema have their own intentions on Creation and its hot springs. Wretched assassins often target a Dynast who might just be lying there getting a massage, add deadly venoms to the water to kill indiscriminately, or sometimes just jump through a paper wall in golden armour weilding a giant hammer - depending on their capacity for personal subtlety. More dangerous may be those cunning demon-slaves who infiltrate in disguise and weave their wicked words into the heads of unsuspecting Dynasts. Lamentably, the followers of Kimbery and the witches of Luna are no less capable of unleashing vile sea-beasts within these shallow waters. Meanwhile, in the threshold many travelling Dragonblooded have stumbled across the ploys by the princes of chaos to set up what seem to be reputable establishments, only to try to consume the souls of visitors while they relax in the springs.
 
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Whats next? A walk around the tropical island and village? 2 dynasts going to the mall to buy stuff? Unfortunate trips and falls?

.....I gotta remember more harem manga.
 
ES

ES

ES pls

stop

Actually, you've done the Beach episode, the Hot Springs episode, now we just need the Festival Episode and the Flashback episode.
inb4 "you know how the last one was horngeek's fault? This one is Dynamouse's fault."

Whats next? A walk around the tropical island and village? 2 dynasts going to the mall to buy stuff? Unfortunate trips and falls?

.....I gotta remember more harem manga.
Christmas/New Year's date, the Class Trip to the Imperial City, the Test of Courage, Valentine's Day and White Day, Halloween, that one bamboo wish festival...that's all I've got right now.
 
Excuse me, though, but can... terrestrial workings stack?

I mean, you can make grains so that they are altered, so your yield is 100:1.

Can you do that once, and then start another working, this time making them grow 3 times as fast?

And then do it again and again?
 
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