I was wondering why they don't just do this. You could have a draconic precision strike right on the Red Keep and then the war is pretty much done.
Game of Thrones Season 7
- Thread starter Teen Spirit
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I was wondering why they don't just do this. You could have a draconic precision strike right on the Red Keep and then the war is pretty much done.
Reveen
Castro-Trudeauist
Danaerys probably doesnt want to fricassee centuries of her family's history. And burning down the traditional seat of the Seven Kingdoms would send a pretty harsh message of "fuck the Seven Kingdoms".
I mean, there's a reason why the Reds didn't try that shit during the Dance of Dragons
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Sorry, no communism in Westeros yet. Were you thinking of the Greens?
Anyway, the situation then was a bit different, mostly in that both sides had dragons, and boy did they ever use them. To the point that all but four dragons died during the war, of which 1 was wild, 1 was rogue and 1 was a baby. Also, the Blacks had already been driven out of the city by riots, IIRC.
The thing is, Daenarys doesn't give a shit about tradition and appearing legitimate anyway. Not only did she lead foreign rider hordes and alien eunuch warriors to the country, but also... Look at the aftermath of the Wagon Train Battle. The books tell us that taking over troops, the common levies, of the defeated party is normal enough, but nobles are usually captured and ransomed. Daenerys openly did away with that, as part of her "the wheel stops" quasi-revolutionary attitude.
Still, it's a good point of not destroying the Red Keep. The logic IMO is there, especially in the face of what Cersei did. However, there's the question of is this restraint, and the patience to hold onto it, in Dany's nature. I could argue for either course, and there's bigger plotholes to the whole set up of this situation anyways.
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On another matter...
Why does the King in the North, the king himself, go on a friggen commando raid beyond the wall? Why doesn't he return to Winterfell to actually hold his realm together against the oncoming invasion? You need Free Folk for that mission? I'm sure you can find some volunteers.
Why does the King in the North, the king himself, go on a friggen commando raid beyond the wall? Why doesn't he return to Winterfell to actually hold his realm together against the oncoming invasion? You need Free Folk for that mission? I'm sure you can find some volunteers.
Reveen
Castro-Trudeauist
Anyway, I have this fanciful fanfic idea of how Eddard could have righted the situation in Kings Landing and kept his head without shitting on Robert's memory or sacrificing his principles. Since there's no ASOIAF dedicated thread I guess it's a book/show Shröedinger's Cat thing?
My theory is basically that he should have hightailed it to Storm's End, and legitimized one of Robert's bastards. In the show it would have to be Gendry, but in the books Edric Storm would be a much better and safer option.
What would need to happen is that Eddard needs to convince Renly to allow him to accompany him to the Stormlands, and once they're situation there send a raven to Dragonstone to summon Stannis immediately before he can send his letter openly accusing Joffrey of being illegitimate and declaring himself king. Then both the brothers need to be convinced toconset to Gendry/Edric being legitimatized and for them to support him.
I think Stannis would go for it, he was a stickler for the line of succession but he doesn't actually care about the crown for it's own sake. Renly would not be happy about it but between pressure from Eddard and Stannis and perhaps offering one of the Stark girls to marry him he might do it.
Then there's the matter of getting the ducks in a row to win the war. Step numero uno is trying to secure Tyrell support. Offering to marry Edric/Gendry and Margaery might do it, that's how Renly got them on board. Then Eddard needs to send a raven to Robb, telling him to take a more defensive stance in the Riverlands. Because keeping the northern armies in reserve are too important in case things go south or Lysa Arryn gets uppity or something. Robb playing chicken with Tywin is too much of a gamble at that point.
If they have the Tyrells, an intact North, and the Vale and Dorne are staying neutral which they probably would, it's not going to be so much a war as a beatdown.
The main problem with it that I can see is that under what conditions is it actually possible to legitimatize a bastard? Does it have to be the father, or the lord of the house? Does a Lord Protector or Hand of the King have the authority to do so in the King's stead? If Eddard can't do it can Stannis do it since he's the de facto head of House Baratheon? Or is it absolutely necessary to get Robert to do it.
Because there's a big practical reason for not telling Robert. He can't be trusted to stay cool and not escalate things too early and get himself and everyone else killed.
Also, Gendry would be a much harder sell for the One True King than Edric Storm.
Also also, Melisandre is going to fuck everything up lol.
What would need to happen is that Eddard needs to convince Renly to allow him to accompany him to the Stormlands, and once they're situation there send a raven to Dragonstone to summon Stannis immediately before he can send his letter openly accusing Joffrey of being illegitimate and declaring himself king. Then both the brothers need to be convinced toconset to Gendry/Edric being legitimatized and for them to support him.
I think Stannis would go for it, he was a stickler for the line of succession but he doesn't actually care about the crown for it's own sake. Renly would not be happy about it but between pressure from Eddard and Stannis and perhaps offering one of the Stark girls to marry him he might do it.
Then there's the matter of getting the ducks in a row to win the war. Step numero uno is trying to secure Tyrell support. Offering to marry Edric/Gendry and Margaery might do it, that's how Renly got them on board. Then Eddard needs to send a raven to Robb, telling him to take a more defensive stance in the Riverlands. Because keeping the northern armies in reserve are too important in case things go south or Lysa Arryn gets uppity or something. Robb playing chicken with Tywin is too much of a gamble at that point.
If they have the Tyrells, an intact North, and the Vale and Dorne are staying neutral which they probably would, it's not going to be so much a war as a beatdown.
The main problem with it that I can see is that under what conditions is it actually possible to legitimatize a bastard? Does it have to be the father, or the lord of the house? Does a Lord Protector or Hand of the King have the authority to do so in the King's stead? If Eddard can't do it can Stannis do it since he's the de facto head of House Baratheon? Or is it absolutely necessary to get Robert to do it.
Because there's a big practical reason for not telling Robert. He can't be trusted to stay cool and not escalate things too early and get himself and everyone else killed.
Also, Gendry would be a much harder sell for the One True King than Edric Storm.
Also also, Melisandre is going to fuck everything up lol.
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Polokun
Dragonheart
Stannis would have given the exact same offer and given the exact same death sentence. Only at least with Dany, her method of killing would at least be over rather fast then just generic burning at the stake.
Only if the show keeps up the character assassination as he offers the treacherous Karstarks a choice between burning and beheading and Jon threatens that Stannis will hang someone he's threatening when he returns.
A bastard can be legitimized by a monarch. I believe being declared Protector of the Realm (or whatever the title was) by Robert would allow Ned to legitimize Gendry/Edric.
Polokun
Dragonheart
My point is, if you start from all the way from Season 1? People make this offer all the time. Cersei offered it to Eddard, Stannis offered it to his brother and anyone who didn't follow him. Jon executed Janos Slynt when he openly defied him. Even in the books, Tywin directly tells Joffrey to serve anyone who defys you with steel and fire, but to also show mercy to those who bend the knee.
Everyone who heaps hate on Dany for what she did is being hypocritical or downright ignorant of both the show AND the books because the simple fact is this:
"Bend the Knee or Die" is how things are DONE in Westeros.
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The closest I could find was the fic ideas thread.
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- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
No, they aren't. Nobles are kept prisoner until ransomed, or held as hostages. Even while the Lannister/Stark war was still actively going on, both sides ransomed people captured by the other side, all the time. I will agree Stannis might have acted similar - he would have seen everyone not accepting his claim as a traitor, and hence deserving the death penalty. But his and Dany's behaviour is not typical. Typically, nobles are spared.
That is indeed where that post should go.
Polokun
Dragonheart
Tell me something, what is Torrhen Stark most famous for?
And Balon Greyjoy, after he outright started a rebellion, what did he end up doing when he lost?
Mace Tyrell swore to the Targ's during the Rebellion, what did he do when they lost?
And what did Stannis himself say?
Tell me something, If ANY of these people had not bent the knee, what would have been done?
I'll tell you: they would have been executed.
It's Jon's lead from the front attitude, which at least is showing some consequence back at Winterfell.
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
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- He/His/Him
"Draconic precision strike".
It's a giant flamethrower that can melt stone. Harrenhal is what you get when you apply dragons to a fortress, and it's still a wreck two hundred and fifty years post Aegon. Dragons are not an elegant weapon from a more civilized era.
"Draconic precision strike".
It's a giant flamethrower that can melt stone. Harrenhal is what you get when you apply dragons to a fortress, and it's still a wreck two hundred and fifty years post Aegon. Dragons are not an elegant weapon from a more civilized era.
You take that far too literally.
Also people need to stop referring to a world that RESEMBLES medieval Europe as if it is our past. This is not Earth.
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- Location
- West Michigan
TIME PASSES BETWEEN SCENES. Sometimes arbitrarily large chunks of time. The voyage from Dragonstone to Eastwatch was boring and unnecessary for the plot or characters, so they skipped it.
This is something that more fanfic writers should learn how to do.
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Polokun
Dragonheart
Yes cause Im sure scene after scene of people on boats doing fuck all is such wonderful things to witness.
:Scene:
~ Davos and Tyrion on a boat ~
The water splashes here and there.
Davos rows.
Tyrion sits there.
:End Scene:
___________________________________________________________________
:Scene:
~ Davos, Gendry and Tyrion on a boat ~
The water splashes here and there.
Davos rows.
Tyrion sits there.
Gendry cleans his hammer.
:End Scene:
________________________________________________________________
:Scene:
~ Jon, Davos and Jorah on a boat ~
The water splashes here and there.
The three of them just stand there staring out over the horizon.
:End Scene:
_____________________________________________________________________
SUCH RIVETING AND IMPORTANT FOOTAGE ON PAR WITH CITIZEN KANE! GIVE 'EM THE OSCAR RIGHT NOW!!!
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Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
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- Firelink Shrine
The show is shit at actually showing that.
Can't even show Tyrion waking up from sleep or something.
Or use a different time of day.
Or literally hundreds of techniques to show the passage of time.
You do know why people keep complaining about this right? Are you two going to keep plugging your ears and yelling LA LA LA every time people keep mentioning it?
Polokun
Dragonheart
Because the only people who CARE about this are salty nitpickers.
Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
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- Firelink Shrine
Polokun
Dragonheart
No seriously dude, I keep hearing about people complaining about teleportation and it's like: "Waaaah! Writers tell us time passes between scenes but We're such babies who can't accept answers that don't fit our precise likes! Waaaaaah! Everyone must drink our salt!"
And as much as I don't like using Family Guy for showing how I feel, this really does sum up my opinion on this matter:
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Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
- Location
- Firelink Shrine
Polokun
Dragonheart
See my previous post for my response.