Remove ads

Game of Thrones Season 7

I would say the first few seasons where they stuck very close to the books were very good. But the series floundered heavily around season five when the showrunners had to start forging their own path so to speak. With very mixed results. The Dorne plot fell flat and did not go anywhere. Little finger giving Sansa to the Boltons proved to be completely pointless beyond shock value and to prove the Boltons are evil (what a shocking revelation!). Arya's time in braavos was again mostly pointless. And the plot with the high sparrow and the Tyrells went on for far too long and did not have a very satasfying ending outside a big explosion.
 
Cosar said:
Are people making such an argument or are you simply attributing such an argument to them?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I have seen such arguments actually. If I'm using the benchmark of the first few seasons, IE up to Season 3, There's all the complaints about taking out characters obviously. The stuff that changed the characters (Like changing Shae or who Robb married) or how Tyrion is much more of a "Morally grey" character in the books (IE more of an asshole), Stannis obviously not living up to what people want of him. Teleportation also being a thing back then too, etc. etc.

That is just a few examples of stuff I hear all the time.
 
Polokun said:
I have seen such arguments actually. If I'm using the benchmark of the first few seasons, IE up to Season 3, There's all the complaints about taking out characters obviously. The stuff that changed the characters (Like changing Shae or who Robb married) or how Tyrion is much more of a "Morally grey" character in the books (IE more of an asshole), Stannis obviously not living up to what people want of him. Teleportation also being a thing back then too, etc. etc.

That is just a few examples of stuff I hear all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are complaints, yes. But a work doesn't need to be perfect to be good. The position you're attributing is significantly higher than their simply being complaints. I even addressed this 2 posts ago.

Additionally, while it's easy to find someone who thinks the show is trash from the very beginning (it's a work of fiction, someone is going to hate it), that is different from many people holding that opinion, and especially different from certain individuals holding that opinion. There are people in the world who truly and honestly believe that the world is flat. But I can't therefore conclude that you believe and would argue that the earth is flat. Different people can have different opinions.
 
Cosar said:
There are complaints, yes. But a work doesn't need to be perfect to be good. The position you're attributing is significantly higher than their simply being complaints. I even addressed this 2 posts ago.

Additionally, while it's easy to find someone who thinks the show is trash from the very beginning (it's a work of fiction, someone is going to hate it), that is different from many people holding that opinion, and especially different from certain individuals holding that opinion. There are people in the world who truly and honestly believe that the world is flat. But I can't therefore conclude that you believe and would argue that the earth is flat. Different people can have different opinions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But what I'm saying is that many people that you say does apply here because their's a clear holding of the opinion on both here and SB that the show in it's entirety, has been shit apparently.
 
Polokun said:
But what I'm saying is that many people that you say does apply here because their's a clear holding of the opinion on both here and SB that the show in it's entirety, has been shit apparently.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, you've just been accusing people who dislike the current seasons and bring up complaints regarding stuff there of disliking the entire show and then attributing other arguments to them. You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't make what you say true.
 
Polokun said:
My point is, it should be obvious by now that for the next two or so years, there's going to be nothing but complaints about the show and how it's gunna be written off as the worst adaptation ever put to screen that should've been cancelled after the first episode.

And then when the books come out that will likely have similar, if not a lot of plot points that are exactly the same, and people will then complaint that GRRM is a terrible writer who doesn't know anything about history or characters or whatever.

Leading me to question then why the heck this series (Books or show) was ever popular at all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You do realise a lot of the ASOIAF novel fans have their own criticism of the novels too right? You can enjoy a product but also be critical of it, thus me saying the show is a flip of the coin when it comes to quality.

Because at the end of the day, both ASOIAF and GoT are works of YMMV quality. One may prefer one or the other, or both or neither, but suffice to say people enjoy the story Martin has written.

Like people complain about the show ... and? People also praise the show a lot. Just look at any scene from the show on YouTube with comments making jokes about it, see the much effort people put in cosplay, the fanfiction people write, the political essays by folks at sites like the Tower of the Hand or the music people copy from the show.

So you don't agree with the complaints, just ignore them. I don't like certain elements of the show either, but you don't see me arguing in bad faith. Like this here?

Polokun said:
Oh that's bullshit, there's nothing you like about the show.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

After I LITERALLY write down the reasons WHY I enjoy the show despite its flops?

Grow up, Polokun.
 
Wade Garrett said:
"Draconic precision strike".
:jackiechan:

It's a giant flamethrower that can melt stone. Harrenhal is what you get when you apply dragons to a fortress, and it's still a wreck two hundred and fifty years post Aegon. Dragons are not an elegant weapon from a more civilized era.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Red Keep is not a small fortress. Yes, after a dragon attack it would look rather like Harrenhal. But the point is, you could hit the Red Keep without hitting the city proper. "Precision strike" in that sense.

----

As for the teleportation argument:
Okay, let's assume the "time passes between scenes, it just isn't shown argument". So during that time passed, the other side is doing... nothing? Daenerys' arrival on Dragonstone was known. So, during the time it takes to ship an entire army (the Unsullied) the entire way around Westeros, around the Stormlands, Dorne, Reach and Westerlands, surely some weeks at the very least... what exactly did Cersei do? What exactly did Robb do? Or, if we really assume there was an actual Siege of Highgarden, what did Daenerys or Robb during the time of the siege? I mean, sieges should go on for months, really. And during all that time Daenerys just sat on Dragonstone and did nothing?

Stories should always have clear in-universe timelines about when stuff happens. Of course they don't need to constantly show that timeline, but it needs to be there in the background in order for things to make sense. And I doubt you could make a workable in-universe timeline of those events without including teleportation.

This isn't pedantry. That is simply not wanting literal timewarps where apparently time literally runs slower in some parts of Westeros than in other.
 
Cosar said:
No, you've just been accusing people who dislike the current seasons and bring up complaints regarding stuff there of disliking the entire show and then attributing other arguments to them. You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't make what you say true.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So you're calling me a liar then when I listed those complaints?

Hykal94 said:
After I LITERALLY write down the reasons WHY I enjoy the show despite its flops?

Grow up, Polokun.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
All the stuff you mentioned was just generic, but undefined stuff. Might as well say you like the color of the sky because it's blue.

And if you're going to insult me, the least you could do is be upfront about it.

Susano said:
As for the teleportation argument:
Okay, let's assume the "time passes between scenes, it just isn't shown argument". So during that time passed, the other side is doing... nothing? Daenerys' arrival on Dragonstone was known. So, during the time it takes to ship an entire army (the Unsullied) the entire way around Westeros, around the Stormlands, Dorne, Reach and Westerlands, surely some weeks at the very least... what exactly did Cersei do? What exactly did Robb do? Or, if we really assume there was an actual Siege of Highgarden, what did Daenerys or Robb during the time of the siege? I mean, sieges should go on for months, really. And during all that time Daenerys just sat on Dragonstone and did nothing?

Stories should always have clear in-universe timelines about when stuff happens. Of course they don't need to constantly show that timeline, but it needs to be there in the background in order for things to make sense. And I doubt you could make a workable in-universe timeline of those events without including teleportation.

This isn't pedantry. That is simply not wanting literal timewarps where apparently time literally runs slower in some parts of Westeros than in other.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are plenty of examples in fiction where stuff happens over a period of time, but they don't show necessarily what the different sides/perspectives are doing during those times.
 
Last edited:
Polokun said:
So you're calling me a liar then when I listed those complaints?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In the very post you quoted I acknowledged that people have those complaints. My statement is that the complaints are not sufficient to indicate a total dislike for the show, especially when they say otherwise with elements that they praise.

Being perfect is not a necessary quality for being good or enjoyable, and being mediocre doesn't mean terrible. These aren't video game reviews, 6/10 isn't the same as 0/10.
 
Last edited:
I don't often agree with Polokun, and I think their stance is very confrontational but... other than that one generic 'the battles look cool and the actors are good, I guess' I can't recall any of you saying a single positive thing about the last few episodes? Like, mostly what I remember is 'the field of fire sucked; there weren't enough people; the dothraki and the Lannisters were stupid; just another big battle scene; the Arya/Brienne fight was shit; Jon/Dany is forced, etc.'. Which are all valid complaints, but if you just say those instead of anything you found good, is it surprising that people think you hate the show and don't like anything in it?
 
hellgodsrus said:
I don't often agree with Polokun, and I think their stance is very confrontational but... other than that one generic 'the battles look cool and the actors are good, I guess' I can't recall any of you saying a single positive thing about the last few episodes? Like, mostly what I remember is 'the field of fire sucked; there weren't enough people; the dothraki and the Lannisters were stupid; just another big battle scene; the Arya/Brienne fight was shit; Jon/Dany is forced, etc.'. Which are all valid complaints, but if you just say those instead of anything you found good, is it surprising that people think you hate the show and don't like anything in it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The matter of fact is that the current season does indeed just suck. I guess people, including me, go on watching it, because the show was once good, very good. It's sad to see something like that fall from grace.
 
I actually like this season. 1 and 4 are still the best and 5 still the worst, but so far it's at least as good as 2 and 6. The feeling that the plot is finally progressing - especially the Dany and WW portions - is a very good thing, though the extra time allowed by the two episodes that they didn't make would've probably helped alleviate some of the major complaints (Highgarden).

There were always going to be issues once the show caught up to the books and couldn't just stop and wait for each of the last two to come out, as a certain subplot in S5 aptly demonstrated. I think D&D have learned their lesson from that and are now just trying to wrap things up as quickly and cleanly as they reasonably can - something that GRRM has visibly not done.

With an infinite budget, sure, you could probably do better and even add back in all the book-only subplots if you want. But as-is? The full length of the show is still pretty damn good.
 
Susano said:
The matter of fact is that the current season does indeed just suck. I guess people, including me, go on watching it, because the show was once good, very good. It's sad to see something like that fall from grace.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I guess the point Polokun's then making is - why watch it if you think it's so bad? If you clearly don't enjoy it - why subject yourself to it? I stopped watching the fifth season for that reason, so it's not some kind of 'if you don't like it leave' but genuine curiosity why, if you really think it's fallen so low, you keep watching - other than I guess morbid fascination?
 
Susano said:
The matter of fact is that the current season does indeed just suck.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
See here's the thing, to quite a few people? That's not true:



The viewership of the show has only gotten steadily higher with each season, save for a couple dips here and there. Season 7 being the highest so far. But if you want actual reviews?

Rotten Tomatoes has that covered too.

Season 7, Episode 1: 95%
Season 7, Episode 2: 100%
Season 7, Episode 3: 92%
Season 7, Episode 4: 97%
Season 7, Episode 5: 97%

Overall Season 7 to date: 95% Audience Approval with a 98%, "Certified Fresh!" critic approval.
 
Polokun said:
All the stuff you mentioned was just generic, but undefined stuff. Might as well say you like the color of the sky because it's blue.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Would you rather I write a 10,000 word essay why I like the show? No, that would be unnecessary and dumb. Much like your whining.

Like dude, I know you do the same thing on SB. We get it, you've got a raging White Knight boner defending the show. People are going to complain on the Internet. There is nothing you can do to stop it. You can point to Rotten Tomatoes all you want, it doesn't explain teleporting ships.
 
hellgodsrus said:
I guess the point Polokun's then making is - why watch it if you think it's so bad? If you clearly don't enjoy it - why subject yourself to it? I stopped watching the fifth season for that reason, so it's not some kind of 'if you don't like it leave' but genuine curiosity why, if you really think it's fallen so low, you keep watching - other than I guess morbid fascination?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I stopped watching but I read threads like this out of a vague hope that it may have gotten better. It hasn't.
 
hellgodsrus said:
I guess the point Polokun's then making is - why watch it if you think it's so bad? If you clearly don't enjoy it - why subject yourself to it? I stopped watching the fifth season for that reason, so it's not some kind of 'if you don't like it leave' but genuine curiosity why, if you really think it's fallen so low, you keep watching - other than I guess morbid fascination?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm here bacause people won't shut up about it.

Also @Polokun can you stop shoving words into @Hykal94 's Mouth?
 
So........
What's the plan for grabbing a wight (on foot), and then getting away (on foot)? A hit and run only works if you have the ability to, y'know, run. Even if they somehow succeed in fleeing at a running pace while dragging one of these things in captivity, that still puts them at....the exact same speed as the rest of the army of the dead. This is ignoring the fact that a lot of the white walkers have their own fucking horses. I mean the showrunners are gonna come up with some contrived solution or just ignore the issue altogether but still.
 
Hykal94 said:
Would you rather I write a 10,000 word essay why I like the show? No, that would be unnecessary and dumb. Much like your whining.

Like dude, I know you do the same thing on SB. We get it, you've got a raging White Knight boner defending the show. People are going to complain on the Internet. There is nothing you can do to stop it. You can point to Rotten Tomatoes all you want, it doesn't explain teleporting ships.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
See, when you reducing what I'm saying to claim "whining" and "White knight boner", that just makes you sound much less credible.

SteelRaptor said:
I'm here bacause people won't shut up about it.

Also @Polokun can you stop shoving words into @Hykal94 's Mouth?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not, as much as you'd like to think so. It's a logical conclusion based on what they have stated so far.
 
the atom said:
So........
What's the plan for grabbing a wight (on foot), and then getting away (on foot)? A hit and run only works if you have the ability to, y'know, run. Even if they somehow succeed in fleeing at a running pace while dragging one of these things in captivity, that still puts them at....the exact same speed as the rest of the army of the dead. This is ignoring the fact that a lot of the white walkers have their own fucking horses. I mean the showrunners are gonna come up with some contrived solution or just ignore the issue altogether but still.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Say they get a ride away on Drogon as Dany swoops in to save them from the Night's King with all three of her dragons after a couple deaths. Except for Jon who gets left behind and gets a horse from Benjen.
 
Polokun said:
I'm not, as much as you'd like to think so. It's a logical conclusion based on what they have stated so far.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Hykal94 said:
The show does not offend me on every level. I know it's hard for you to comprehend, but I actually enjoy about 50% of the show. I actually like most of the cast, the acting, the sets, the locations, the CGI and all the things that makes the show what is is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So you think @Hykal94 is lying about his personal opinion?
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top