???
"This world has clearly established the existence of magic. The wall incorporated magic in its construction, since it's there to defend against magic enemies. Thus the wall is at least partly magic, explaining why it's so fuckhuge."
Not complaining about that is not inconsistent.
"Characters are normal humans with normal horses and other normal means of transportation. However, the places they visit are way too far apart for them to travel in the time we're supposed to believe it took them to travel."
Can you not see the difference between the two ideas? One is using the magic established early on in the setting to explain a supernatural structure that was built when that magic was around. The other doesn't really have a logical explanation that I've found.
No, you're being kneejerk reactionary to just about every critique, and offering very little defense to your arguments. I'm done with you since I am sick of this thread being not about GoT season 7, but about arguing with you.
People are being consistent. The Wall is magical. It was built by a legendary Stark with the aid of giants and other magical creatures.

Teleporting however isn't a thing.
Or as Aristotle said aeons ago, "Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities".

I don't think you understand what breaks people's SOD, @Polokun .
If you guys don't like the show, then just stop watching it then.

But no, I can tell right away that come this Sunday (Or earlier if it leaks) you're all gunna sit behind your TV or Computer screens and still watch it. Why? I dunno, out of some personal, masochistic ritual I think at this point. At least I'm actually having fun and enjoying it.
 
You know what, Polokun? Watch this.



A crash course on verisimilitude. It's an important thing for anyone interested in creating fictional settings.

And stop saying "stop watching it". You're acting like a damm child.
 
If you guys don't like the show, then just stop watching it then.
Don't "don't like don't read" me, dude. I am simply pointing out you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what people are complaining about, so your equivalence with the Wall's proportions is inaccurate.
 
The irony here is that if show Euron was a sorcerer like book Euron, the teleporting fleets actually could be explained.
It's also funny how the Euron and Sand Snakes plots ended in... literally nothing? They simply cancelled each other out in a very inglorious way. Why did we we even have the Iron Islander Kingsmoot? Euron gets elected in order to wreck the Sand Snakes, Yara and Theon, and then just disappears from the story. Meanwhile, the Sand Snakes have their coup d'etat in Dorne, only to be defeated by Euron in a single, improbable naval battle, and we never hear a single word from Dorne again.

But sure. The show is at least good at dramatic storylines. Hmhm. Quite.
 
If you guys don't like the show, then just stop watching it then.

But no, I can tell right away that come this Sunday (Or earlier if it leaks) you're all gunna sit behind your TV or Computer screens and still watch it. Why? I dunno, out of some personal, masochistic ritual I think at this point. At least I'm actually having fun and enjoying it.
Oh nice, now I'm being told what I feel.
You know. I like the show. I watch it. That doesn't stop me from pointing out flaws or correcting your false equivalence.
 
Violation of Rule 3: No sniping. This has nothing to do with the matter at hand.
Hey remember how Arya went and studied to become an assassins so she goes around killing Freys?

And the Freys are mentioned ONCE by Jaime in this season so far.

All that buildup for absolutely nothing.

You're are the one acting like a child, continuing to indulge in something that you constantly complain about.

I'm not the one getting infracted on this site or SB.
 
How is it false equivalence? It's the exact same level of "lazy writing" to me.
We have told you numerous times. You quoted all the posts and all you responded was, literally:
"If you guys don't like the show, then just stop watching it then."
Go back to the top of the page and watch the posts you quoted for why your equivalence is false. Don't just repeat your points in one-liners, actually engage in the other side's arguments. Everything else is bad faith debating.
 
We have told you numerous times. You quoted all the posts and all you responded was, literally:
"If you guys don't like the show, then just stop watching it then."
Go back to the top of the page and watch the posts you quoted for why your equivalence is false. Don't just repeat your points in one-liners, actually engage in the other side's arguments. Everything else is bad faith debating.
What arguments? I proposed that the hugeness of the wall is just as much "lazy writing" as the so-called "teleporting" because of how it makes just as much no illogical sense and is just there to prevent issues.

How is "Wall is Magic" any different from "Dragons are Fast"?

And for the record, it's hard as hell to argue back when you get four or more people dogpiling you at the same time.
 
If you guys don't like the show, then just stop watching it then.

Oh boy the Cycle is repeating.... for 8th time i think?

But no, I can tell right away that come this Sunday (Or earlier if it leaks) you're all gunna sit behind your TV or Computer screens and still watch it. Why? I dunno, out of some personal, masochistic ritual I think at this point. At least I'm actually having fun and enjoying it.
You're are the one acting like a child, continuing to indulge in something that you constantly complain about.



It's enjoyable in the "how did these people survive with this level of stupidity." sort of way.
 
It's enjoyable in the "how did these people survive with this level of back stabbing stupidity." sort of way.
People were back-stabbingly stupid back in the first three seasons and in the books: Littlefinger, Joffrey, Theon, The Freys etc.


The Unsullied didn't use dragons. Jon didn't use dragons. Jaime's Lannister host didn't use dragons. And so on and so forth.

Sure, wherever Dany goes, that's believable because of dragon flight. But indeed only Dany.
And the writers stated that a lot of time can actually pass in between scenes. Why is that excuse not good enough?
 
If you guys don't like the show, then just stop watching it then.

But no, I can tell right away that come this Sunday (Or earlier if it leaks) you're all gunna sit behind your TV or Computer screens and still watch it. Why? I dunno, out of some personal, masochistic ritual I think at this point. At least I'm actually having fun and enjoying it.

Fine here's some positives. I really love the locations, the props, and costumes. I like how the world still looks very real even with the fantastical elements becoming something seen in virtually every episode now. I had my worriess that the gritty medieval and even historical-esque feel of the earlier seasons would too strongly clash with the white Walkers assaulting with undead hordes, the Children of the Forest, and full grown dragons breathing fire on armies from above. Even in the books I had my doubts about this. However they managed to integrate it very well without losing the earlier feel of the setting. And speaking of these fantasy creatures, they all look great, especially the dragons this season. Then there's the performances, which many of the actors have pulled off marvelously despite the shitty writing.

On top of that, its fun to be a part of the larger viewership, and able to engage with fellow fans with something that has become a worldwide cultural phenomenon. The fact that this is all from a rather obscure series of books I read, a series that sits up there as one of my favorites and is written in a style I greatly admire, is pretty awesome too. Plus I've given up on ever reading the ending. I'm sick of waiting and this show will be the only way I'll see something of how Martin intended to end it. Once I finish the last episode next year, I'll be ready to put Westeros behind me.
 
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And the writers stated that a lot of time can actually pass in between scenes. Why is that excuse not good enough?
Because that only works if you assume the entire realm stood completely still while that time passed. I doubt you could actually develop a consistent chronology from the events in Season 7.

But sure... shift your argumentation some more. It has been "but the Wall!", "but dragon flight!", "but time passes!" - you never engage in arguments, you always just shift your position.
 
Because that only works if you assume the entire realm stood completely still while that time passed. I doubt you could actually develop a consistent chronology from the events in Season 7.
Can you develop a consistent chronology in the past Seasons? If the episodes just flow into the next, then logically the first episode of season 2 happens immediately after the last episode of season 1. Like literally 3 seconds later.

But sure... shift your argumentation some more. It has been "but the Wall!", "but dragon flight!", "but time passes!" - you never engage in arguments, you always just shift your position.
So when I point out that the Wall is an example of just as much "lazy writing", that Dragon Flight would be faster and that writers have given an excuse as to how much time passes, all in an (admittingly pointless) attempt to just try to get people to realize they're obsessing needlessly over "teleporting", that's just shifting arguments. But when you make claims about how people go from one place to another being lazy writing despite arguments to the contrary proving either your reasons are unfounded or explained? That's supposed to be good arguments now?
 
If you think this thread is "raging" about the show God forbid you go to r/gameofthrones or other fansites.

They probably tear apart the show waaay more savagely than we SVers are.
 
How is it false equivalence? It's the exact same level of "lazy writing" to me.
You're equating the walls existence with people traveling around faster than they should be able to.
The wall was established as part of the setting from the very beginning for one. Then we got more and more info on it over time and we found out that there was more magic around back in the day that the wall was built. We also find out that the wall is intended as protection against a clearly supernatural enemy. Now, we have a structure of a scale that we wouldn't be able to build with normal means. But, as people mentioned, it was, as later revealed, intended to defend against something magic. In a time when magic was around, using magic to help build your magical protection against other magic makes logical sense. That you can circumvent the limitations of mundane architecture by way of - already established - magical assistance also makes logical sense. That it continues to hold up because its magic still works neatly explains how it's still standing.
That's one side.
The other side you're equating this with is people using mundane means of travel, on foot, on horseback, on ships, etc. (Not just dragons [which also might not just be able to fly arbitrarily fast because you'd end up needing some as yet unexplained protective magic for Daenerys clinging onto their back]). However, these people are traveling distances in a timeframe that doesn't work out for their means of travel. "The established magic of the setting is used to explain this (under mundane circumstances) impossibility" doesn't apply here, because there's no magic in use for these events. There's nothing explaining how people get to places faster than they should. There's no setting-internal logic why this impossibility happens.

So what you're doing is equating something normally impossible, that has explicit explanations to explain its existence in a manner that's consistent with the established world-building, to something normally impossible that has no ex- or implicit explanation in the show that would explain how it works when it logically shouldn't. And I should note, that the creators themselves have admitted they're getting increasingly fuzzy about. Link to article. They admit that they're straining plausibility and are hoping the show's momentum carries it for the watchers. And it clearly does for some. It clearly doesn't for others. For some it doesn't work but they still enjoy it. And that difference in opinion is okay.

But that doesn't mean that when people complain about something without in-setting explanation, which the directors admit might be a bit hard to take on good faith, that it's equivalent to ignoring the logically consistent information about when and why the wall was built (in a time of magic, to guard against powerful magic things).
 
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So when I point out that the Wall is an example of just as much "lazy writing", that Dragon Flight would be faster and that writers have given an excuse as to how much time passes, all in an (admittingly pointless) attempt to just try to get people to realize they're obsessing needlessly over "teleporting", that's just shifting arguments. But when you make claims about how people go from one place to another being lazy writing despite arguments to the contrary proving either your reasons are unfounded or explained? That's supposed to be good arguments now?
We have pointed out to you why "time passes" doesn't work because you couldn't get a consistent chronology - you answered with "but the Wall!", instead of engaging with those arguments.

We have pointed out to you why the Wall is not "lazy writing" - and you answered with "Don't like don't watch", instead of engaging with those arguments.

We have pointed out to you that Dragon Flight can only account for Dany, and for nobody else. You ignored that.

We do actually engage your arguments. All you do is shifting goalposts.
 
The shitty writing feels like a bit of a betrayal of the promise of the series to me. I've been following the series since before even the pilot was filmed, from around 2008. This was supposed to be the thinking man's show. Sopranos in Middle Earth.

Now all we get is "LOL just assume we actually care about internal consistency. Just pretend really hard that it's there."

Why I keep watching? I'm the patron saint for the sunk cost fallacy. And also for the boobs.
 
Violation of Rule 4: This is for your general behavior in this thread. Also, do not abusively rate other people's posts 'funny'
We have pointed out to you why "time passes" doesn't work because you couldn't get a consistent chronology - you answered with "but the Wall!", instead of engaging with those arguments.

We have pointed out to you why the Wall is not "lazy writing" - and you answered with "Don't like don't watch", instead of engaging with those arguments.

We have pointed out to you that Dragon Flight can only account for Dany, and for nobody else. You ignored that.

We do actually engage your arguments. All you do is shifting goalposts.
Ok you know what, Fine. You win. The argument is in your win.

The show sucks, the writing sucks, the characters suck, everything about it is hot garbage and easily on par with the Bayformers films as far as quality is concerned. It should go down in history as the worst TV show ever made and should never have gotten a 2nd episode, let alone a 2nd season. That's what I support now, no exaggeration.
 
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