Which is still incomprehensible why we voted for it but what happens happens...
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Which is still incomprehensible why we voted for it but what happens happens...
- Location
- USA
Is there a way for us to reverse consequential Justice?
Is this the precedent argument as she technically already was acknowledged as an adult by Kaspar through being picked as part of his slate?
- Location
- United States
With the new information given, this seems to be the only real option:
[ ] [Aeva] Step down publicly. Aeva has enough experience to know who will replace her, she may rule through them. (Instantly resolves Faction Strife, +1 Legitimacy and +1 Stability)
Priit is almost unequivocally in the right here, and unless we have Aeva twist the institutions of the People to directly exclude herself, she basically has to step down.
It's probably best to just let him do what he wants for awhile honestly, especially with how much we seem to have dropped the ball here.
[ ] [Aeva] Step down publicly. Aeva has enough experience to know who will replace her, she may rule through them. (Instantly resolves Faction Strife, +1 Legitimacy and +1 Stability)
Priit is almost unequivocally in the right here, and unless we have Aeva twist the institutions of the People to directly exclude herself, she basically has to step down.
It's probably best to just let him do what he wants for awhile honestly, especially with how much we seem to have dropped the ball here.
But we can argue against him without causing civil war
- Location
- USA
Thank you, I accept your apology as well.
Moving on I think we can all agree that Priit is not the most stable of leaders we've had, both due to the upbringing he has had and the slights dealt against him.
I think the best way to deal with him at this juncture is to allow him to do what he does best. Wage war. As the leader of the Fingers he is the closest to the Northlands. He will undoubtedly lead the charge if we try to finish the Northlands here and now which I think we have a good chance of doing due to crippling them this turn. This occupies him for some time and also allows us to potentially resolve this dispute with him through other means.
If we can placate him here and show him that Aeva is not a threat we can resolve this. What we need though is more time. Something a war will give us.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
*Grrr*
Yeah, I think the best solution here is to take our lumps and just endure him. It wont be the first time we have a good, but shitty leader. It certainly wont be the last.
Presuming you resolve the Faction Strife crisis peacefully, without simply capitulating to Priit, you'll unlock Stone Age Law as a megaproject. Stone Age Law is rare as hen's teeth, so this situation isn't completely terrible. In real life, Stone Age Law would mostly be a development locked to a few societies in the New World as that was one of the few places with extremely high population density, complex societies, but also a near complete lack of metal.
Most societies simply don't develop law as a distinct discipline until the Bronze Age since their societies simply weren't large or complex enough (due to real life's glacially slow population increase) until they had already mastered bronze.
That's this option:
This option:
Would be elaborated on next turn. The obvious solution is: Aeva's an adult because she's an accredited member of the Ember-Eyes. You could also argue that it's different because Aeva's gay I.e. Aeva married a woman so she's effectively taken on a male social role. There are other options in there as well.
- Location
- USA
I think that's because a good number of people viewed Priit as guilty during that Trial due to the information given. For example, up until the QM mentioned it, I thought it was obvious that in trying to pursue justice he killed those people in that longhouse rather than it being from the riot as that is what it seemed to imply. Personally I voted with you as I thought it was the best of bad options. His attitude didn't help either.
I think another aspect of that vote was that we were trying to look too far in the future by using the trial to make societal changes and by thinking this would curtail the powers of the warriors due to establishing precedent against them. Though this backfired hard.
No it won't.
However I think we need to find a way to do more than just endure him, but instead mitigate any problems he may cause. Not directly though as that will make us seem like a threat. Either we use both of our options to raid the Northlands, thus distracting him for some time while giving us more time, or we could try to paper things over right now so as to get a better solution later using the Temple.
Right =/= Best for society.
Acknowledging the fault means we bury the problems and build the flaws into social foundations.
We need to revise the laws so this can't happen again, but Aeva is the only one with the skill to avoid a disaster there.
Hero Admin -> Stone Age Law
Last edited:
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
The idea of arguing that she is already recognized as an adult is intriguing. I think that would be the best way to attack his argument. He is arguing from a strictly feminine point of view. According to the traditions of the People, Aeva has born no children, and so as a woman, she is not an adult. Instead of arguing that, we could instead argue that she is not strictly a woman in the cultural sense. She adheres to no feminine gender norms, and is herself married to a woman.
She is also a member of the ember eyes. She is also old enough that she was recognized as an adult before the trials of adulthood are implemented.
Honestly, the best solution, is to change the trials entirely. I never really liked what we voted on, but thats neither here nor there. In lieu of changing them, arguing Priit down is the best option.
While we do this, we need to distract him with raiding actions in the North, with any luck, he will fuck off and die, giving us time to fix things. At worst, he will be distracted, giving us a few turns to breathe. It also stops him from just going "Fuck this shit, I do what I want, come fight me if you think you're 'ard enough. Ill shiv ya I swear on me mum.
I think after a while of being frustrated, he might very well turn to his martial talent as a way to get what he wants.
Last edited:
- Location
- USA
So essentially we need to not take the immediate out here by having Aeva step down?
If we did not immediately capitulate, how exactly would Priit interpret that?
Also are we still seeing things throug Aevas lens or through Priit?
As for Stone Age law I assume you are referring to the mesoamerican civilizations?
Would choosing the precedent option or the fact that she is an Ember Eyes and thus an adult qualify as a way to get said megaproject?
So this is not the option you are referring to, the one you don't think we will pick?
So this would essentially extend into next turn and give us more ways to shape our society?
Is there a chance Priit will object to this argument or will it simply evolve over time?
As I'm guessing each argument has more weight to it than the others l.
Edit:
I think that while the gay argument could work it is one of the more flimsier options compared to day using the argument that her status as a member of a Holy Order constitutes her proof as being an adult. As a member of a Holy Order himself I think this is the option that he would have the hardest option arguing against, and will likely be the most palatable to him.
Both are fair arguments but if we had to choose only one I would go with the former rather than the latter in terms of successful choices.
I think we will probably need more nuance to the Trials but to be fair, at the time we were limited in terms of our choices. Motherhood was the best option we had as the QM at the time pointed out that if we chose the fitness choice where they would need to contribute to maintain their status as an adult, that would've led to them potentially losing their rights down the line as it becomes harder for them to do so as they age, with motherhood being a natural component for most of them, leading to further disenfranchisement.
I agree with choosing to argue against Priit here as that will get us the coveted Stone Age laws megaproject.
With the course of the war going as it had I don't think he will die if we send him north. We killed their martial hero and removed our debilitating belief regarding their cavalry. I think our chances of finishing this war on our terms is high as we now have a way to counter their mobility, we have our own martial hero, and we lost that belief.
Also I don't really blame him for his attitude, I see him as a tragic figure thrust into bad situations. His attitude could be better but taking into account his life I can see where he is coming from. So long as we can channel his good aspects, such as his loyalty to his comrades, we should be fine.
I'm not entirely sure about that as for a marital character he had only restored to violence when he had no other choice. Legally speaking I think he is canny enough to use his influence and options well.
Though considering a war with the Peace Builders neighbors is in the offing we can probably keep him distracted indefinitely.
Last edited:
The revised trials make sense because Warriors should not be tested as Hunters, and neither should Farmers, Masons and Shamans after all.
Note they are nomadic. We have explicit info that they will likely just pack up and leave(to come back another day for revenge) if we press further...and destroying them isn't actually in our interests, as we lose their trade goods and domestication tech drips.
- Location
- USA
I agree however I am not sure whether our arguments here will constitute changing our Trials or will put us on the path to law.
He said that they can leave if pushed to a certain threshold. I am not sure if we have reached that threshold yet.
If we act quickly enough such as by seizing their settlement in a raid we can force them to come to terms. Such as by potentially vassalizing and integrating them, which I am in favor of.
We need more stability right now and I think with the advantages we have we can win the next raid handily.
Not really. It's just an exceedingly unlikely position where an influential person who's a woman happens to have no children, statistically speaking it really shouldn't come up again in the quest. Then again, statistically, women protagonists being lesbians far outnumbers those that are straight on this forum which is predominantly men, so perhaps that bias will just emerge yet again.
Anyway for the contentious vote itself, this for me is the deciding factor. We're not really in a position to further add nuance to our social laws and culture, particularly as the author just literally pointed out how it's gotten more complicated this very update. Of the options I favor Aeva stepping down as; as mentioned above statistically and narratively it wouldn't make sense for this situation to emerge again, we're in a very tumultuous situation and there is a very real threat of civil war, Aeva herself is old and I was personally expecting her to die this update anyway so the utility of fighting this choice is further weakened, and Pritt has been noted to be quite paranoid so any potential negatives of an option (even if not intended) could mean that it triggers.
I personally also find that narrativerly and socially that a leader being willing to step down is a very good thing. There are far too many examples throughout history of people just entrenching themselves within power positions and clawing to keep any vicissitude of influence and while personally it may be beneficial for them, it tends to negatively impact the society itself as ideally there should be a natural power shift as people grow older. A lot of the options provided ring of that to me and would lead to negative societal traits, and if that's what they seem to me, to a paranoid Priit that's undoubtedly going to be the case.
[ ] [Aeva] Crush his faction with violence. (Current Chance of Victory Estimate: Very Small) - Pretty much the defination of what I describe above, it's also stupid with the chance of victory being very small.
[ ] [Aeva] Paper Over the Cracks. (Build Temple: Crystal Lake 1/2) - Doesn't actually address the situation
[ ] [Aeva] Assert Privilege: Aeva was appointed to her position by Kaspar and she shares his divine blood. (???) - Kaspar has hundreds of descendants, it's a no no for me. It worked for the Egyptians as they kept the numbers that it applied to limited.
[ ] [Aeva] Rally Against Outsiders. (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability) - When in societal conflict, fight. Awful as it doesn't fix the core issue, Pritt's supporters are warriors, and eventually this is going to go badly even if it's not this turn; then the actually problem that caused us to fight someone in the first place would surge back even stronger.
[ ] [Aeva] Ignore him. (???) - Incredibly arrogant and demeaning, stupid when it's refering to a headstrong and prideful warrior who has spent his life fighting and has been taught that violence is the answer to his problems.
[ ] [Aeva] Claim the Case is different: Aeva's situation is different from that of other childless women. (???) - The only viable option for me with us being able to argue using the Holy Orders, however it still doesn't resolve the immiediete crisis point between Aeva and Priit, and our society is very unstable and has already added further complexity to our culture and laws this turn. Too much change too soon is bad.
[ ] [Aeva] Argue the Old Rules: Aeva is old enough to have been recognized as an adult before the Trials of Adulthood were implemented. (???) - Grandfathered flaws ... the old ways are better. In a modern society this is fine, in an ancient one it's catastrophic. Any societal progress or laws we make in response to situations can be easily countered and fought by those disadvantaged by them; and can easily lead to a situation where "the old ways are better".
So yeah, for me the choice would be for Aeva to step down. As I've alluded to above, leaders being willing to step down from power is also a powerful thought of mine as how you manage transitions of power can be a deciding factor for a culture and society.
Both. By acknowledging that the Trials need to be changed to fit the circumstances also means that we're instituting additions which would need to be codified in a more complex way than "You know it when you see it."
Loss of their Hero and cavalry corps probably makes it pretty damned close.
However, I recognize the point and will support it. Sending him north to fight the Northlands, however fruitful it is, will buy us time to reorganize our code of law while keeping him busy at the front for now.
This is incorrect. Such decisions never come when you have high Stability. By simply stepping down you kick the problem down to future generations and makes things even more brittle later, as the bad practices will have weight of tradition behind them and a hell lot more people than 3 settlements.
This is not about keeping Aeva in power.
This is about having our first Law written while we have a Heroic Admin/Art character to design the writing system.
Oh and it gives us writing in the Stone Age. Which is very nice.
Its actually pretty destabilizing and leads towards societal suicide, hence why it doesn't happen often.
Leaders you can remove easily are a terrible plan because developing a leader, especially in elitist societies, costs dozens of man-years of specialist training and development. This is not the post-industrial world where leaders can be relatively easily replaced from a large pool.
Social mobility are a plus for populous societies, but establishing the precedent that "Leader does something unpopular" or "weather is bad when leader is in charge" is enough basis for them to step down actively sabotages primitive societies.
Its why hereditary rule is so dominant. It's stable. You know who the leader is, and a bad leader is better than no leader, because no leader means people starve en masse. If the leader dies theres a heir with years of training set to move right in, no question of their authority.
- Location
- USA
Then I guess we're agreed that we should probably pick the option of Aeva claiming that the case is different for her both so that we can make the necessary changes to the trial and get a Stone Age Code of Law at such an early juncture.
Especially as this war has affected us and the surrounding geopolitical picture greatly. The Peace Builders have had their number of warriors greatly reduced and are now taking a big role in our decision making picture. The fact that they went up to bat for us indicated that we are now firm allies and will likely need to reciprocate by the turn after next as I still think we have until then for their southern enemies to attack. I think by then due to the recent victory we should have enough power to win this and impose our own terms, then swing south to support them.
We're committed on going tall right now so I think a Code of Law to make sure something like our decision last turn, a miscarriage of Justice, is not likely to occur again.
I think that it's for the best in this case. Before this turn we were at -1 on the raid counter, and considering some of our losses this turn, I think it's less close than it seems. If we exploit this temporary advantage now I think we stand a good chance mechanically of ending this war on our terms even without the aid of the Peace Builders.
By finishing this now at least we can get some easy stability, distract Priit, and finish all of this soon enough rather than later.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
To be fair, that was after the dude summarily dismissed his entire argument and told him to bite em which is... uh yea.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Let's not resurrect a dead argument. They asked where they had been rude, posters pointed it out to them, and they apologized to eachother. It's OVER now.
Let's just be happy to have witnessed the rare civil conclusion to an internet disagreement.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
*shrug* i was reading at 7 in the morning, just woke up.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
All good.*shrug* i was reading at 7 in the morning, just woke up.
Well, unopposed Hero tends to be pretty spectacular. Going to be bloody expensive on action commitments though, but worth it.
- Location
- USA
I don't see this added to the status page, so aside from the obvious, what exactly does this trait do?
Right, I knew something like this was going to happen, but you reap what you sow I suppose.
How many People blamed the outcome of the Trial for how badly the war went?
What exactly was it that led to the plummeting morale among the warriors?
Was it a combination of factors such as the outcome of Priit's trial, the length of the war, and fighting the Ivory Blooded Chief?
So I'm guessing this was just our debilitating belief and our morale damage at work then?
How badly did we roll here and what was the damage?
Got it, build more trails to help in defensive wars, message received.
We should be able to use these summer dog sleds though in Northlands territory right?
With the outcome of the war as is, how much of an issue are the bandits currently?
So were those instances where we actually did pin down the Northlands forces just luck or something else?
I'm curious to see if we've learned any actual anti-cavalry tactics.
So this was your explanation for how we picked up Blood Brothers?
What exactly would you have used to justify us gaining the Peace Builders Hand or Fist value, especially as we would likely still be losing at this point?
Also, how much did it help us to pick up Blood Brothers at this moment in the war?
I can understand the increased social cohesion among elites, and the increased emphasis on our words alongside nepotism, but how does this trait increase generation of Heroes in defensive wars?
So did we actually gain the Northlands version of Blood Brothers, as I don't think we actually got it out from the captured of what they swore or whatever, but instead just saw their example?
Also, it was mentioned in the leader board comment, but how important is it that we have a hardened core of warriors? Meaning, what effect will having these veterans give us?
How many People did think Priit was being punished correctly? How widely was this known anyways?
Also, did our choice in putting so much power into the hands of the Big Men essentially make it so that we stuck Priit in this...exploitable and vague situation?
Would making Priit a debtor have allowed him to contribute to the war effort?
Yeah...it seems like we really damned him in that we put him in a damned if you do situation, damned if you don't, legally speaking.
I'm guessing if she tried to reverse the decision it would've led to Civil War?
I don't think people really thought this through last turn, as I doubt this was the intended option, seeing as it made things less equal and more likely to be unjust that more just.
How do the Peace Builders view this trait? As I doubt they would see this in a favorable light?
So essentially he continued to hunt even though his take of the food became less and less, with every increase essentially putting him closer to starvation then?
I don't think we even treat our debtors this badly in comparison.
I'm assuming due to our law system that we don't really have any set fines, and that the weregilds are essentially set by the local Big Men right?
He had an actual plan?
So essentially, I'm guessing the Northlands forgot that our settlements were covered by impenetrable brick walls and when the remembered and came upon the Fingers, they figured that there was no way that they could've possibly raided the settlement and switched over to trying to thin the periphery correct?
Looks like the Hunt plan alongside the rallying cry of Priit turned the tide here.
I'm not entirely sure if the caribous of the Northlands were simply tamed or domesticated here, but judging by their reaction to the predators we unleashed it seems like the former to me.
How many of the Northland's forces did we destroy this turn? As when it says near slaughtered I'm guessing that they have less than 10% of what they started with in terms of raw numbers, and based on this result it shows.
Also, how many people did the Northlands mobilize for this war, as they didn't have dedicated warriors so this must've hurt their economy.
A number of things to comment on here.
How close was this battle here, and was the rolls for this separate from our overall rolls or were they part of the same? As it seems like more than one raid roll was used for this turn considering how everyone seems to have gotten bad results.
In terms of the Ivory-Blooded Chief, what exactly was his stature and that of his caribou? It was mentioned later that the size of the Northlanders was rather small, allowing them to ride their caribous, so how big was he exactly?
Also, it was mentioned that Priit had not one bonded dog, but instead a pack of them. How common was that among the Fangs and how hard was it to do?
I'm guessing also that the Ivory Blooded Chief lost due to the fear his mount had against our predatory canine friends correct?
It really seemed like we decimated a lot of them this turn. How did the Northlands perceive the results of this battle?
Also how do the Peace Builders view this war, considering how badly they got mauled in it and how topsy turvy things went?
Wow. How exactly were the Northlanders even able to effectively fight when they were so small?
Also, does that mean we can now research cavalry easier, and if so which action do we need to take to do so? Is it study travel, prize animals, or what?
What exactly was the Big Man of the Fingers doing this entire time? It seems like he spent more time tormenting Priit than he did prioritizing the war effort.
Also, how the People view Priit's ascension to Big Man, as while it could be argued, as I argued previously, that Priit was only acting in self-defense, he still did technically kill his direct predecessor to gain the position.
How will that shape things?
I'm curious was Priit referring to the leaders of the Peace Builder's war party, or did their overall leader fight in this war for us?
Also, how are the Peace Builders governed?
Why are the Peace Builders leaving anyway? Was it too many casualties, needs at home, them viewing us having the war well in hand?
Considering the fact that Kaspar was able to become another settlements Big Man by moving, could Priit have done so during his punishment and moved to say Hill Guard or Crystal Lake to receive a lighter punishment in terms of interpretation? Though I doubt he believes either of those Big Men would be any better.
How did Priit assemble such an assortment of characters? I can understand everyone else, but where did the girl from the Northlands come in? Also are they his slate, or is he polygamous now?
Also, I find it really surprising that he has Northlander warriors among his cohort, how did he manage that? Considering our still ongoing war, I am really surprised we married with some of the Northlanders.
Though I guess we can't really fault Priit for his choice in diversity at least, as I think due to Blood Brothers that he views people more on their character than their origins.
Wow, seeing the damage dealt to us, do we have to make any conscious decisions to rebuild or will that be done, similar to how the Fingers were rebuilt all that long ago?
It seems this is another example of the Peace Builder's soft power at work. I'm curious to see how far they've come in our eyes.
This was entirely and utterly predictable. We really should've seen this coming. Of course by making an enemy out of Priit, the fact that he survived means that he will feel obligated to get his revenge against those who he feels slighted him, something we in fact did do with our last decision. By putting the cart before the horse we effectively tried to push social change too fast, and in doing so backfired. By trying to prevent the warriors from taking power, we essentially gave them more power.
I hope we actually learn from this.
How do factions form in general? Do they always form due to strife or can they be for positive improvements that don't have consequences resulting in Civil War.
As for what the resolve conditions are. I think one of them is to increase stability, as I don't think any of the other values accurate measure something we need to increase. Reform our laws, as you noted that we have too many laws, making it so that the Big Men have to interpret them. Reducing Priit's support seems highly unlikely due to the fact that he is a war hero.
Kaspar was revered as a war hero due to his actions. Priit's actions here are arguably greater as he saved all of the People, for which I am thankful.
Let's start out with the obvious. We're already at -2 stability, we cannot afford to take another hit to stability, otherwise we're fucked. I don't even want a White Peace in the first place. Too much has been lost, too little gained.
An informal truce will likely give the Northlands enough time to either raise more warriors or simply leave. We crushed them this turn. While our warriors may be bent, they are not yet broken.
I don't Priit is in a partying mood yet.
That is why I believe we should continue the war and raid the Northlands. As things stand right now we have a high chance of winning the next raid. Their martial hero, the Ivory Blooded Chief is dead at the hands of our own martial hero. We lost the debilitating belief against their cavalry. The majority of their armies are broken, their martial status on the leaderboard have them at near slaughtered cavalry. With our own summer sleds to use for mobility, a hardened core of veteran warriors, and our very own martial hero we should easily be able to finish them next turn and then turn our arms to aiding the Peace Builders when their foes strike.
Choosing to raid will do two things. First it will allow us more options when it comes to ending the war on our terms. We will be able to lay low the Northlands and have choices to determine their future. If we want we can integrate them, vassalize them, or even make them pay tribute while continuing to trade. I find that that is better than taking a stability hit for a white peace.
Secondly, it will shore up our stability some and distract Priit enough with leading the war effort that we can make some reforms while we still have an admin hero to do so, enough to end the crisis with him and shore up our stability and future position.
Let's start with the first option. Aeva stepping down would solve the immediate problem but would kick the can down the road for later. Considering the topics brought up for discussion this turn we need reform, and Aeva stepping down will torpedo any chance of reforming our laws and getting a Stone Age Code of Law. So no.
Yeah...let's try to crush the Martial Hero's faction in a war, what could possibly go wrong? In short, everything. Priit's warriors are likely the majority of our warrior elite, the hardened veterans who fought by his side, and were saved by him. We have no chance, well little chance, of crushing him in battle. Nope.
While I would really like to get started on another Temple, papering over the cracks won't solve the underlying issue here, even if we likely should create a Priesthood to administer our laws.
Divine Blood would work in any other situation, except for the fact that Priit is also of Kaspar's blood, even if far removed, and because the precedent it sets right now would be horrible. Considering she's gay and likely won't have children, if we choose this we are setting ourselves up for failure when she dies.
Rallying against the Northlands would help us stability wise and distract Priit, but that is all it would be in the end, and it won't likely help us get reforms. Just to be clear, if we chose this or the Temple would we have more choices to work on reforms?
Ignoring him would ignite the Civil War, so nope.
I think the best option here is to insist that Aeva's case is different. It's a rather solid defense depending on which choice we choose to work with, and it will also allow us to add to or reform the Trials for both men and women. Our society has changed enough to necessitate it. Of the arguments we could choose for this. I think the best one we could choose is the argument that as a shaman through her membership with the Ember Eyes, she has earned her adulthood. As Priit is a member of another Holy Order, I think he'll find it hard to refute this as a strike against this precedent would be a strike against them. Furthermore he would likely understand it more and react in a less reactionary fashion to it than say if we choose to gamble on her being gay and that she is assuming the role of a male. Change is slow to develop and for this argument I would rather we choose the option that is more likely to work than the more risky gamble that could cost us everything. Choosing this choice will likely allow us to get the Stone Age Law megaproject which we desperately need.
The other option I think might work is this last one. Technically speaking when the Trials were implemented she was already seen as an adult through her status as a member of Kaspar's slate. While grandfathering her into this would be seen as a stretch, it would also likely work. Though I'm not entirely sure what precedent we'd set. Then again, we literally had an ex post facto ruling last turn, by people deciding to condemn Priit for violating a law we just created on the spot.
So I'm guessing that due to the fact that we have too many laws, that are too vague and up to interpretations, that essentially the rank and file can't remember the laws or have contradictory interpretations?
That seems like a recipe for future disasters down the line.
What would've happened if we had chosen other options?
For example what would've happened had Aeva succeeded in dealing with this outside of the Trial? What precedent would've been set if we had seen Priit as not guilty due to the fact that he was pursuing the laws as they were written, which I really think he was.
So does the Lucky thing actually have any mechanical effect? I highly doubt their militia would stand up against our warriors or that of the Peace Builders or Island Makers right?
Yeah, I think most of us assumed from the text that he literally did slaughter that longhouse, leading to the bad decision of last turn.
I think there may have been confusion regarding last turns choices. The fact that a good portion of us saw Priit as somewhat guilty due to the deaths, which we thought were from him directly killing the longhouse as it was portrayed had a good deal to do with that. Secondly, I think many of us were unsure what exactly would've happened in terms of Aeva choosing not to vote to convict. Such as if she voted not to convict, but the others did, would the option we chose for punishment still have gone through?
Altogether, I think we really did drop the ball majorly last turn, though it was a close vote that some of us tried to avert.
Oh well, guess female warrior representation is going to take the backseat for a long while.
Yeah, reading all of this, I feel that Priit really us a tragic character. While he may have been introduced to us in a very unsympathetic way, seeming like an asshole, I think that we read him wrongly, and that we kind of forgot that he was a child soldier at the time.
Knowing his story more fully now I am very sympathetic to him. I am not sure if this is what you are referencing but I think that Priit may have an issue with trust or at least choice. Most of the most important decisions in his life have been taken out of his hands. Taken to join the Fangs without choice. Sent off to join a war because of that. Found a spouse that eventually cheated on him, and then tried to pass off his child he was fighting for as his, without his choice. Then he was convicted by someone he likely thought should've protected him using charges and punishments today that would be seen as unjust. It's understandable now to see why he is acting the way he is. He may seem unreasonable and paranoid, but it's not paranoia if everyone else in life so far really has been out to get you.
The real kicker is that we could've easily averted this. Especially the reason for conviction, which in hindsight seems even more heinous that we chose to do so. Convicting him for a law that was both unprecedented, as in that was literally made up during the trial, and then convicting him of violating it after the fact reeks of injustice.
How likely is it that we can revisit this choice again? Because as is it looks like we chose wrongly and put the cart before the horse when looking for progress.
What would've caused our collapse?
Also it's implied that if we had made him a debtor it would not have led to our collapse, how so?
I mean, depending on how high we are on the raid counter with them, I believe that it is indeed worth it. As finishing them here will be a twofer in that we will be able to end the war on our terms without taking a hit to stability and gaining it instead, while also buying us time to solve this faction strife issue.
Due to the fact that this is a mid-turn decision rather than say that of a full turn, makes me believe we should resolve this war by the start of next turn. We have way too many advantages for them to surmount, especially the unopposed martial hero they will have to deal with.
My concern is that we will need to finish this war by the start of the turn after as that is likely when we will be dragged into the Peace Builder's southern war. We need to reciprocate there.
In short if it wasn't obvious my vote is:
[ ] [Priit] With blood! (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability)
[ ] [Aeva] Claim the Case is different: Aeva's situation is different from that of other childless women. (???)
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
I am also going to support this vote. I think we need to push for reform.
[ ] [Priit] With blood! (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability)
[ ] [Aeva] Claim the Case is different: Aeva's situation is different from that of other childless women. (???)
[ ] [Priit] With blood! (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability)
[ ] [Aeva] Claim the Case is different: Aeva's situation is different from that of other childless women. (???)
Blood Brothers means that your Hunters and Women with a talent for fighting are more likely to join the war effort despite not normally being interested. This means in turn that they'd find whatever way to excel and help where they can, allowing us to reveal latent heroes motivated to back up the People.
Remember, warfare in this era is raiding bands hitting militias. Hardened cores of warriors means that we have a small number(and thus highly mobile and easy to supply) group of warriors who could outfight 3:1 odds and thus inflict disproportionate damage in shock, which our greener warriors can push into a general rout.
Keep in mind unreliable narrator and that the primary modes of war are arrows and spears, which height matters less. Nomadic civillizations select for small and compact builds because they're too close to subsistence. The big strong man of a warrior of the People would eat his tribe into starvation in the North.
Hunting for any large animal(so Orkers for us) should do it. Study Travel too.
Flat Arrow Outlook says that Klingon promotions are legitimate.
Remember, based on their justice values, Justice has been served by the death of the enemy hero as the primary offender. Why did they help Priit raise hell?
The same Justice value says we've acted unjustly upon him.
It happens. Rules need to be remembered and interpreted, but since they're individually memorized, the Big Man can say whatever they are to be true and none can gainsay him. Thats what a Code of Law does: codify them so that deviations in interpretation is controlled and must be communally agreed to.