Egypt split power between the Pharoahs and the Priests(and the clerks running around between them).
There might be a better possible way of managing elites. But have any of us thought of it?
Didn't Egypt do pretty well with everything revolving around the Pharaohs?
From Stone to the Stars
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
There might be a better possible way of managing elites. But have any of us thought of it?
Didn't Egypt do pretty well with everything revolving around the Pharaohs?
That's because of God kings and religion, not to mention crazy shit happening with fewer rivals and a big ass desert to protect them.
- Location
- United States
[X] [Reward] Raise Temple: Hill Guard 1/2 + 2/2
[X] [Value] Northlands (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Pritt] Aeva attempts to lean on her connections to solve the matter privately. (Chance of additional -1 to +1 Stability)
[X] [Priit] No, he acted in accordance with precedent and his personal duty.
[X] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
[X] [Value] Northlands (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Pritt] Aeva attempts to lean on her connections to solve the matter privately. (Chance of additional -1 to +1 Stability)
[X] [Priit] No, he acted in accordance with precedent and his personal duty.
[X] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
- Location
- US
[X] [Reward] Raise Temple: Hill Guard 1/2 + 2/2
[X] [Value] Peace Builders
[X] [Priit] Yes, his actions lead to tragedy regardless of intent.
[X] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
[X] [Value] Peace Builders
[X] [Priit] Yes, his actions lead to tragedy regardless of intent.
[X] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
Uh, no? This is approval working as intended. We get the most agreeable collective decision without being split into a dozen plans such that the winning plan is supported only by a minority.
We use plan voting when the individual parts interlock heavily, like in the main turn plan votes. But independent task voting for event turns so everyone gets the most agreeable collection
[X] [Reward] Raise Temple: Hill Guard 1/2 + 2/2
[X] [Value] Northlands (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Pritt] Aeva attempts to lean on her connections to solve the matter privately. (Chance of additional -1 to +1 Stability)
[X] [Priit] No, he acted in accordance with precedent and his personal duty.
[X] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
[X] [Value] Northlands (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Pritt] Aeva attempts to lean on her connections to solve the matter privately. (Chance of additional -1 to +1 Stability)
[X] [Priit] No, he acted in accordance with precedent and his personal duty.
[X] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy)
[X] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But isn't this a situation where the the votes DO interlock? At the very least, the "develop internally" option was doomed from the start because it's results depended on the other actions.
Develop Internally was doomed from the start because almost all the good values we might want to get from it are beyond our ability to pay Stability for.
By contrast we already know of two good values we can acquire, which is why Northlands(non-blood related family becomes a bonding quality as society increases in number) and Peace Builders(Violence as Second Resort) are handy.
Though the Hand or Fist is liable to give headaches until we resolve the conflict between it and Flat Arrow Outlook. Talk First Violence Second and Violence Always are going to to battle within the generation.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
17.2 Bloody Revenge
[X] [Reward] Raise Temple: Hill Guard 1/2 + 2/2
[X] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy) -> Trait Gained: Weregild
[X] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship. -> Trait Gained: Divorce
[X] [Value] Northlands (-1 Legitimacy) -> Value Gained: Brothers of my Blood
[X] [Priit] Yes, his actions lead to tragedy regardless of intent. (-1 Stability) -> Trait Gained: Consequential Punishment
The first few years after the end of Priit's trial had brought the People nearly to the brink of ruin. It was the trial, Aeva knew. The trial and its manifestly unjust outcome had turned the spirits' eyes from the People. There was no other explanation what had occurred.
The Northlanders continued to press the People and the Peace Builders, savaging their warriors and spilling their blood by the bucket full. It was a situation exasperated by the plummeting morale among the warriors as well. Many of the warriors had given years of their lives, their health, their friends and in some cases their deaths to stop the enemy. It was an unending war against things that were as much man as beast, things that could prove themselves brethren to the spirits.
Warriors on the front knew that better than most. They said that strong men would lay down at night to sleep and simply wake up dead. Others remembered the man-beasts stalking their dreams, hunting and killing them as they did in the daylight, but worse. They were twisted things there, reveling in their inhumanity. Macabre parodies, twisted in ways that were impossible. It robbed man of sleep and of energy, leading them to be slaughtered during the waking dawn. It was a hideously effective magic.
Morale among the warriors quickly collapsed in the face ceaseless war. After the Ivory-Blooded Chief managed to slip a group of man-beast raiders past the People's front lines, the front itself collapsed. The warriors eventually reformed along the banks of the Great River, near the furthest extent of settlers from the Fingers. New front lines were eventually established, but it was a net full of holes. The out lying settlements surrounding the Fingers burned. The loses were small, but each one was kith or kin; a painful loss.
The People simply lacked the infrastructure of trails that would've allowed them to outmaneuver the man-beasts of the North. Trying to find them, let alone fight them, was like striking smoke. Even the new summer dog sleds were ineffective. Without trails, they couldn't be used!
These losses were only compounded when some of the People's warriors simply broke. Instead of fulfilling their duty, they broke and ran. Some disappeared permanently, others went so far as to go bandit and started preying on the People. So many warriors were tied up tracking Northlanders through empty, trackless waste that hunting down bandits became a distinctly secondary concern. After all, if a bandit was smart, they wouldn't kill or burn those they robbed. If they did that, there wouldn't be anyone for them to extort next year.
Rapidly, the People began to lose faith in their warriors. It seemed that nothing could be done to stop the Northlanders, the People were weak and they were strong. No matter what the People seemed to try, they and the Peace Builders were systematically pushed back. The man-beasts they fought against were simply too mobile to be easily pinned down. When they could be, it was usually a slaughter in the People's favour. But those moments were rare.
That was when something strange happened, something that had at first been quiet. Everyone in the People knew of the importance placed on Blood Oaths and Brotherhood among the Northlanders. It was said that the Ivory-Blooded Chief himself was Blood Brother to the tribe's former High Shaman. It was a bond that mimicked, but also transcended family. Clearly, it was a practice greatly favoured by the spirits. How else could be People and the Peace Builders be beaten by numbers notably inferior to their own?
It started small, but soon everyone was sealing pacts and deals in blood.
Value Gained: Brothers of my Blood!
It was a practice the warriors reported seeing among the man-beasts of the north. When some were captured, they would nearly always refuse to surrender. None among them would betray the blood sworn brotherhood of warriors. In many of their darkest moments, the warriors of the People turned to the practice as well. Many broke, some ran, and others turned to brigandage, but that only solidified the hardened core of what remained. The core fell back, but on they fought.
Wasn't it like the Ember-Eyes said? A common stone of amethyst could be transformed into citrine through careful cooking in a kiln. The process was magic, adding fire to stone in order to trap in light. Could not people be transformed in such ways, by application of heat and pressure?
Perhaps that was how Priit saved them. The boy had been brutally mistreated in the estimation of most warriors. He had done his duty, only for the Big Men to savage him from on high. Even the punishment; six lifetimes worth of food, one for everyone who had died in the riot he'd spawned, was deeply unusual. The punishment was too much, many thought, an abuse of the Big Man's power. A criminal Debtor would not have been given such a step price for their freedom. Even if some of the People thought Priit was punished correctly, how was he to be treated. Was he a Debtor? Was he otherwise a normal member of the People?
The Big Man of the Fingers took the latter finding since it allowed him to punish Priit further. After all, under the precedent set by the Three Big Men, a warrior could be fined for harming the People in the course of his duties. Priit, by focusing on paying off his fine through hunting, was obviously negligent in aiding the war effort. If he had focused on the war effort... well it held to reason that the boy was being negligent by failing to pay his fines.
That hypocrisy was obvious to Aeva, but what could she do? Contradict the laws and punishments that she handed down? It was an obvious problem brewing, but Aeva ended up being unable to respond to it.
Trait Gained: Consequential Punishment!
Priit hunted diligently while the war front slowly collapsed around the Fingers and his fines piled incomprehensibly high. Day in and day out, he diligently hunted, allowing ever more of his take to be taken from him. Even to the point where it started to become a danger he would starve, he hunted.
Trait Gained: Weregild!
Only once the Ivory-Blooded Chief broke through the warrior's crumbling defense to set eyes upon the Fingers did Priit's plan become clear.
It was said that the Ivory-Blooded Chief knew only despair when his warriors stopped along the nexus of the Valge and Great Rivers. Crossing over the waters with their man-beasts while under fire from the People's archers was impossible. Beyond that, a wall greater than some trees he'd seen enclosed the People's entire settlement. Assault was impossible. All that he could hope for was to turn his fury against the outlying concentrations of the People, slaughtering and burning farms and sap distilleries.
It was at that moment that the spirits finally turned against the Northmen.
Priit returned and he returned with blood and fury. He came at the head of the Fangs and their snarling wolves, stalked from the shadows by countless toothy beasts. The Fangs had unbalanced the careful relationship between herbivores and carnivores, causing a boom in the latter's population and then slaughtered all the herbivores they could find. It made starvation inevitable for the booming population of carnivores, causing them to turn... mean. The population grew desperate and the Fangs whipped them forward with promises of blood and tantalizing gifts of meat.
The man-beasts of the North panicked and cohesion disintegrated in the face of countless hungry fangs. Some of them split off, vanishing into the forests pursued by cougars and wolves. Others became paralyzed, clumping up into large groups only to be cut to ribbons by arrows and thrown spears. The Northlanders simply couldn't respond.
It was in that moment that Priit found the Ivory-Blooded Chief. The two fought for the second time and they would fight to the death.
The Ivory-Blooded Chief was a fearsome opponent, a killer of men that was personally responsible for the deaths of more warriors than any other single cause. Priit was still young, seasoned by a few more years, but before the true prime of his life, weakened and underfed. Priit had further proven himself an inferior warrior in their previous clash. It was obvious who should have won.
Priit fought like a cornered wolf. Viciously and with teeth bared, he struck out with every dirty trick that he'd cultivated over years of dangerous hunts. His obsidian-ivory spear moved with all the force of a falling star and the pack of dogs that followed at his heels were blood-bonded, the envy of many Fangs. Against that, all the Ivory-Blooded Chief could do was frantically backpedal, slowing trying to gain control of his lower half while the beast parts of him quivered in senseless panic.
It almost came as a surprise when Priit's spear found his enemy's heart in a single, unexpected thrust.
(+1 Prestige: Enemy Hero Slain!)
Screaming his vengeance, Priit rallied the People's and Peace Builder's forces and smashed as many straggling groups of man-beasts as they possibly could. Countless numbers of them were cut down. Many were lost or trapped by the suddenly hostile, carnivorous world that seemed to surround them. The land was unfamiliar to them and there simply seemed to be nowhere to escape to. The mop up of enemy forces was closer to hunting beasts than something warriors were necessary for. The starving, fanged beasts feasted heartily on blood and offal.
Some of the Northlanders were even captured, so exhausted by running that they could not resist. After that, it was quickly revealed that the Northlanders hadn't become man-beasts, they simply rode them. It was... an interesting idea, the People thought. Given the small stature of the Northlanders (a Northlander man was closer in size to a twelve-year-old boy than a man), it wasn't something that the People could really put into practice. The few animals, caribou, that they had captured, had a tendency to collapse under the increased weight, or aggressively buck anyone who climbed on them.
Status Resolved: Murder of Man-Beasts! (+1 Prestige)
It was high off that indisputable victory that Priit swept into the Fingers. He walked directly to the center of the settlement and called out the Big Man for his cowardice and incompetence. He charged that the Big Man had harmed the People by interfering with the business of warriors. It was a comment easily laughed off, especially when the Big Man of the Fingers ordered the young man seized.
Until the order was not followed. None of the warriors that flanked the Big Man moved in response to his orders.
Priit had been clever, organizing the pursuers after the Northlands to contain most of the Big Man's fervent supporters. There would be no help coming. The Big Man was powerless.
"Not so fun is it now?" Priit had asked, "You impudent old coward."
The Big Man of the Fingers died less than a second after he drew his war club and attacked. Priit knocked the Big Man from his feet and brought the but of his spear down on his enemy's face until it was finely crushed.
"Prepare a message for the Fire Relay, we need to plan how to finish this war. The leader of the Peace Builders has informed me they will be pulling out, only a few of them will stay behind." The young conqueror sighed. "Summon the other Big Men. We need to meet."
How does Priit plan to end the war?
[ ] [Priit] With blood! (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability)
[ ] [Priit] With... eh, peace. (Trade: Northlands) (-1 Stability)
[ ] [Priit] In an informal truce. (Raise Warriors: Holy Orders)
[ ] [Priit] With a party! (Annual Festival)
It was with trepidation that Aeva made her way back to the Cave of Stars. Priit, the new Big Man of the Fingers, had summoned her and the Big Man of Hill Guard for their annual conference and to discus the status of the ongoing hostilities with the Northlanders.
It seems the problem child had come home to roost, she mused. Priit had, at least, been proclaimed as the Big Man by all of the residents of the Fingers. There was little that she could do to dispute that. A Big Man was raised internally by those they organized and ruled over, very few limits to their power existed but reason and practicality.
When she arrived, Priit was already present, leading a small delegation. The People he chose to show off were interesting, Aeva noted. Whispering in his year was a young man, from the Peace Builders, if she placed his accent correctly. Flanking them were a number of women, one who was obviously of the People with her blonde hair and light eyes, a woman of the Peace Builders, and even a girl of the Northlands, based on her extremely small stature.
It was an extremely diverse collection. In fact, many of his guards were the same. Warriors of the Peace Builders, the People, and there were even a precious few Northlanders mixed in with them. Aeva would bet her life that they were newcomers that had married into the People. The only question was what message was Priit trying to send by showing them off? Based on how she'd heard he'd near single handedly beaten back the Northlanders, he should have had his pick of guards and supporters.
"Greetings, Great Grandaunt," Priit bowed slightly. He sounded respectful, but the smirk on his lips was a little bit too wide. "The Triumvirate have much to discuss."
"Indeed," Aeva agreed, sitting down softly. They were inside the brightly lit Temple of Stars, its windows thrown open wide while the sun slowly set. The twinkling walls were cast into a warm orange light with a fire glowing in the middle. One of the temple's cooks tended to it, searing meaty morsels and seasoning a cauldron of pumpkin-rice soup. "How goes the war against the north?"
"Well, much better under my leadership," Priit said, "Under my predecessor, the Northlands had made it to the shores of the Fingers. Nearly one in three of our farms, sugar shacks, lumber and hunting cabins were burned out. It's hard to say how many of the Northlanders we've slain, but their loses were significant. Extremely so."
The young man seemed to hesitate for a moment. Warring within himself until the Peace Builder warrior at his side laid a hand upon his shoulder and offered a reassuring squeeze. Priit started, a warm look over taking him, until his eyes turned into hard, burnt flint.
"The war in the North goes well," Priit said, picking up where he left off, "But I believe it is inappropriate for you to be asking such. This is a meeting between Big Men, and that is something you cannot be."
The fire snapped, a log cracked in half and sent a cascade of sparks up into the air.
"You would question my right to sit here?" Aeva asked quietly. "No Big Man can question the ascension of another." Officially at least, a Big Man was selected by each settlement. In practice, it was done all the time, but never so blatantly.
"Under our oldest traditions," Priit agreed. "You." He pointed to the Big Man of the Hill. "What are the requirements to speak at a public gathering?"
"Since the People ended the Long Walk, those with wisdom, cunning, influence, and resourcefulness were allowed to speak," the Big Man started, uncertain. When Aeva said nothing, he continued: "Under Kaspar-In-Flesh," Aeva nearly rolled her eyes and the divine title of her father, "This was clarified. The meetings were opened to all adults. Men are recognized when they give more to the People than they take, women are recognized when they have children."
"Is this not a gathering?" Priit asked. "Each of us speak for an entire settlement. This is the purest possible distillation of a gathering. It should uphold our traditions, not flaunt them."
Priit's argument was hardly foolproof, but even to Aeva's eye, it carried a hint of earnestness to it. Combined with his recent, crushing victories and the skull of the Ivory-Blooded Chief he'd welded to his banner, Priit was poised to become a leader. Particularly among the warriors.
There was just enough there, that it could tear the People apart on the cusp of victory.
"Why, Priit?" Aeva whispered, just low enough for her counterpart to hear. "Why would you do this? There's no need for this."
The young conqueror's eye flashed. "I do this so you can't hurt us - me - again, Great Grandaunt."
Status Gained: Faction Strife (Priit's Warriors)!
How does Aeva respond to Priit's challenge?
[ ] [Aeva] Step down publicly. Aeva has enough experience to know who will replace her, she may rule through them. (Instantly resolves Faction Strife, +1 Legitimacy and +1 Stability)
[ ] [Aeva] Crush his faction with violence. (Current Chance of Victory Estimate: Very Small)
[ ] [Aeva] Paper Over the Cracks. (Build Temple: Crystal Lake 1/2)
[ ] [Aeva] Assert Privilege: Aeva was appointed to her position by Kaspar and she shares his divine blood. (???)
[ ] [Aeva] Rally Against Outsiders. (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability)
[ ] [Aeva] Ignore him. (???)
[ ] [Aeva] Claim the Case is different: Aeva's situation is different from that of other childless women. (???)
[ ] [Aeva] Argue the Old Rules: Aeva is old enough to have been recognized as an adult before the Trials of Adulthood were implemented. (???)
AN: Moratorium is in effect until the next threadmark tomorrow morning!
[X] [Punishment] Extract immense fines from Priit. (-1 Legitimacy) -> Trait Gained: Weregild
[X] [Theft] The woman was not yet a thief. She would have only stole food once Priit officially ended their relationship. -> Trait Gained: Divorce
[X] [Value] Northlands (-1 Legitimacy) -> Value Gained: Brothers of my Blood
[X] [Priit] Yes, his actions lead to tragedy regardless of intent. (-1 Stability) -> Trait Gained: Consequential Punishment
The first few years after the end of Priit's trial had brought the People nearly to the brink of ruin. It was the trial, Aeva knew. The trial and its manifestly unjust outcome had turned the spirits' eyes from the People. There was no other explanation what had occurred.
The Northlanders continued to press the People and the Peace Builders, savaging their warriors and spilling their blood by the bucket full. It was a situation exasperated by the plummeting morale among the warriors as well. Many of the warriors had given years of their lives, their health, their friends and in some cases their deaths to stop the enemy. It was an unending war against things that were as much man as beast, things that could prove themselves brethren to the spirits.
Warriors on the front knew that better than most. They said that strong men would lay down at night to sleep and simply wake up dead. Others remembered the man-beasts stalking their dreams, hunting and killing them as they did in the daylight, but worse. They were twisted things there, reveling in their inhumanity. Macabre parodies, twisted in ways that were impossible. It robbed man of sleep and of energy, leading them to be slaughtered during the waking dawn. It was a hideously effective magic.
Morale among the warriors quickly collapsed in the face ceaseless war. After the Ivory-Blooded Chief managed to slip a group of man-beast raiders past the People's front lines, the front itself collapsed. The warriors eventually reformed along the banks of the Great River, near the furthest extent of settlers from the Fingers. New front lines were eventually established, but it was a net full of holes. The out lying settlements surrounding the Fingers burned. The loses were small, but each one was kith or kin; a painful loss.
The People simply lacked the infrastructure of trails that would've allowed them to outmaneuver the man-beasts of the North. Trying to find them, let alone fight them, was like striking smoke. Even the new summer dog sleds were ineffective. Without trails, they couldn't be used!
These losses were only compounded when some of the People's warriors simply broke. Instead of fulfilling their duty, they broke and ran. Some disappeared permanently, others went so far as to go bandit and started preying on the People. So many warriors were tied up tracking Northlanders through empty, trackless waste that hunting down bandits became a distinctly secondary concern. After all, if a bandit was smart, they wouldn't kill or burn those they robbed. If they did that, there wouldn't be anyone for them to extort next year.
Rapidly, the People began to lose faith in their warriors. It seemed that nothing could be done to stop the Northlanders, the People were weak and they were strong. No matter what the People seemed to try, they and the Peace Builders were systematically pushed back. The man-beasts they fought against were simply too mobile to be easily pinned down. When they could be, it was usually a slaughter in the People's favour. But those moments were rare.
That was when something strange happened, something that had at first been quiet. Everyone in the People knew of the importance placed on Blood Oaths and Brotherhood among the Northlanders. It was said that the Ivory-Blooded Chief himself was Blood Brother to the tribe's former High Shaman. It was a bond that mimicked, but also transcended family. Clearly, it was a practice greatly favoured by the spirits. How else could be People and the Peace Builders be beaten by numbers notably inferior to their own?
It started small, but soon everyone was sealing pacts and deals in blood.
Value Gained: Brothers of my Blood!
The People have learned to look beyond family. A man can always count on his brothers for support, but brotherhood is not a concept so limited as family. Oaths sworn in blood are just as binding as the water of the womb and can be trusted without suspicion due to the sanctity of such bonds. To break them would be unthinkable.
Pros: Increased social cohesion, especially among the People's elites, increased generation of Heroes in defensive wars
Cons: The People's word is their bond, Increased nepotism
Pros: Increased social cohesion, especially among the People's elites, increased generation of Heroes in defensive wars
Cons: The People's word is their bond, Increased nepotism
It was a practice the warriors reported seeing among the man-beasts of the north. When some were captured, they would nearly always refuse to surrender. None among them would betray the blood sworn brotherhood of warriors. In many of their darkest moments, the warriors of the People turned to the practice as well. Many broke, some ran, and others turned to brigandage, but that only solidified the hardened core of what remained. The core fell back, but on they fought.
Wasn't it like the Ember-Eyes said? A common stone of amethyst could be transformed into citrine through careful cooking in a kiln. The process was magic, adding fire to stone in order to trap in light. Could not people be transformed in such ways, by application of heat and pressure?
Perhaps that was how Priit saved them. The boy had been brutally mistreated in the estimation of most warriors. He had done his duty, only for the Big Men to savage him from on high. Even the punishment; six lifetimes worth of food, one for everyone who had died in the riot he'd spawned, was deeply unusual. The punishment was too much, many thought, an abuse of the Big Man's power. A criminal Debtor would not have been given such a step price for their freedom. Even if some of the People thought Priit was punished correctly, how was he to be treated. Was he a Debtor? Was he otherwise a normal member of the People?
The Big Man of the Fingers took the latter finding since it allowed him to punish Priit further. After all, under the precedent set by the Three Big Men, a warrior could be fined for harming the People in the course of his duties. Priit, by focusing on paying off his fine through hunting, was obviously negligent in aiding the war effort. If he had focused on the war effort... well it held to reason that the boy was being negligent by failing to pay his fines.
That hypocrisy was obvious to Aeva, but what could she do? Contradict the laws and punishments that she handed down? It was an obvious problem brewing, but Aeva ended up being unable to respond to it.
Trait Gained: Consequential Punishment!
The People have decreed that all actions which lead the People to harm must be punished. One need not intend to harm the People, one simply needs to just make it so. Acting within the bounds of law or duty offer no protection when a convict is ruled against by their local Big Man. Doing nothing and allowing harm to befall the People is also no defense. The only defense against these charges are to always be lucky, be on your best behaviour, or on the good side of the judge.
Priit hunted diligently while the war front slowly collapsed around the Fingers and his fines piled incomprehensibly high. Day in and day out, he diligently hunted, allowing ever more of his take to be taken from him. Even to the point where it started to become a danger he would starve, he hunted.
Trait Gained: Weregild!
In the old days, it was thought that only blood could wash out blood. Now, the People know better; recompense can come in many forms; labour, baubbles, food, it just needs to be enough to assuage the hurt and pay restitution to victims.
Effects: Instead of physical punishment, criminals may pay off their offenses with excess wealth.
Effects: Instead of physical punishment, criminals may pay off their offenses with excess wealth.
Only once the Ivory-Blooded Chief broke through the warrior's crumbling defense to set eyes upon the Fingers did Priit's plan become clear.
It was said that the Ivory-Blooded Chief knew only despair when his warriors stopped along the nexus of the Valge and Great Rivers. Crossing over the waters with their man-beasts while under fire from the People's archers was impossible. Beyond that, a wall greater than some trees he'd seen enclosed the People's entire settlement. Assault was impossible. All that he could hope for was to turn his fury against the outlying concentrations of the People, slaughtering and burning farms and sap distilleries.
It was at that moment that the spirits finally turned against the Northmen.
Priit returned and he returned with blood and fury. He came at the head of the Fangs and their snarling wolves, stalked from the shadows by countless toothy beasts. The Fangs had unbalanced the careful relationship between herbivores and carnivores, causing a boom in the latter's population and then slaughtered all the herbivores they could find. It made starvation inevitable for the booming population of carnivores, causing them to turn... mean. The population grew desperate and the Fangs whipped them forward with promises of blood and tantalizing gifts of meat.
The man-beasts of the North panicked and cohesion disintegrated in the face of countless hungry fangs. Some of them split off, vanishing into the forests pursued by cougars and wolves. Others became paralyzed, clumping up into large groups only to be cut to ribbons by arrows and thrown spears. The Northlanders simply couldn't respond.
It was in that moment that Priit found the Ivory-Blooded Chief. The two fought for the second time and they would fight to the death.
The Ivory-Blooded Chief was a fearsome opponent, a killer of men that was personally responsible for the deaths of more warriors than any other single cause. Priit was still young, seasoned by a few more years, but before the true prime of his life, weakened and underfed. Priit had further proven himself an inferior warrior in their previous clash. It was obvious who should have won.
Priit fought like a cornered wolf. Viciously and with teeth bared, he struck out with every dirty trick that he'd cultivated over years of dangerous hunts. His obsidian-ivory spear moved with all the force of a falling star and the pack of dogs that followed at his heels were blood-bonded, the envy of many Fangs. Against that, all the Ivory-Blooded Chief could do was frantically backpedal, slowing trying to gain control of his lower half while the beast parts of him quivered in senseless panic.
It almost came as a surprise when Priit's spear found his enemy's heart in a single, unexpected thrust.
(+1 Prestige: Enemy Hero Slain!)
Screaming his vengeance, Priit rallied the People's and Peace Builder's forces and smashed as many straggling groups of man-beasts as they possibly could. Countless numbers of them were cut down. Many were lost or trapped by the suddenly hostile, carnivorous world that seemed to surround them. The land was unfamiliar to them and there simply seemed to be nowhere to escape to. The mop up of enemy forces was closer to hunting beasts than something warriors were necessary for. The starving, fanged beasts feasted heartily on blood and offal.
Some of the Northlanders were even captured, so exhausted by running that they could not resist. After that, it was quickly revealed that the Northlanders hadn't become man-beasts, they simply rode them. It was... an interesting idea, the People thought. Given the small stature of the Northlanders (a Northlander man was closer in size to a twelve-year-old boy than a man), it wasn't something that the People could really put into practice. The few animals, caribou, that they had captured, had a tendency to collapse under the increased weight, or aggressively buck anyone who climbed on them.
Status Resolved: Murder of Man-Beasts! (+1 Prestige)
It was high off that indisputable victory that Priit swept into the Fingers. He walked directly to the center of the settlement and called out the Big Man for his cowardice and incompetence. He charged that the Big Man had harmed the People by interfering with the business of warriors. It was a comment easily laughed off, especially when the Big Man of the Fingers ordered the young man seized.
Until the order was not followed. None of the warriors that flanked the Big Man moved in response to his orders.
Priit had been clever, organizing the pursuers after the Northlands to contain most of the Big Man's fervent supporters. There would be no help coming. The Big Man was powerless.
"Not so fun is it now?" Priit had asked, "You impudent old coward."
The Big Man of the Fingers died less than a second after he drew his war club and attacked. Priit knocked the Big Man from his feet and brought the but of his spear down on his enemy's face until it was finely crushed.
"Prepare a message for the Fire Relay, we need to plan how to finish this war. The leader of the Peace Builders has informed me they will be pulling out, only a few of them will stay behind." The young conqueror sighed. "Summon the other Big Men. We need to meet."
How does Priit plan to end the war?
[ ] [Priit] With blood! (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability)
[ ] [Priit] With... eh, peace. (Trade: Northlands) (-1 Stability)
[ ] [Priit] In an informal truce. (Raise Warriors: Holy Orders)
[ ] [Priit] With a party! (Annual Festival)
It was with trepidation that Aeva made her way back to the Cave of Stars. Priit, the new Big Man of the Fingers, had summoned her and the Big Man of Hill Guard for their annual conference and to discus the status of the ongoing hostilities with the Northlanders.
It seems the problem child had come home to roost, she mused. Priit had, at least, been proclaimed as the Big Man by all of the residents of the Fingers. There was little that she could do to dispute that. A Big Man was raised internally by those they organized and ruled over, very few limits to their power existed but reason and practicality.
When she arrived, Priit was already present, leading a small delegation. The People he chose to show off were interesting, Aeva noted. Whispering in his year was a young man, from the Peace Builders, if she placed his accent correctly. Flanking them were a number of women, one who was obviously of the People with her blonde hair and light eyes, a woman of the Peace Builders, and even a girl of the Northlands, based on her extremely small stature.
It was an extremely diverse collection. In fact, many of his guards were the same. Warriors of the Peace Builders, the People, and there were even a precious few Northlanders mixed in with them. Aeva would bet her life that they were newcomers that had married into the People. The only question was what message was Priit trying to send by showing them off? Based on how she'd heard he'd near single handedly beaten back the Northlanders, he should have had his pick of guards and supporters.
"Greetings, Great Grandaunt," Priit bowed slightly. He sounded respectful, but the smirk on his lips was a little bit too wide. "The Triumvirate have much to discuss."
"Indeed," Aeva agreed, sitting down softly. They were inside the brightly lit Temple of Stars, its windows thrown open wide while the sun slowly set. The twinkling walls were cast into a warm orange light with a fire glowing in the middle. One of the temple's cooks tended to it, searing meaty morsels and seasoning a cauldron of pumpkin-rice soup. "How goes the war against the north?"
"Well, much better under my leadership," Priit said, "Under my predecessor, the Northlands had made it to the shores of the Fingers. Nearly one in three of our farms, sugar shacks, lumber and hunting cabins were burned out. It's hard to say how many of the Northlanders we've slain, but their loses were significant. Extremely so."
The young man seemed to hesitate for a moment. Warring within himself until the Peace Builder warrior at his side laid a hand upon his shoulder and offered a reassuring squeeze. Priit started, a warm look over taking him, until his eyes turned into hard, burnt flint.
"The war in the North goes well," Priit said, picking up where he left off, "But I believe it is inappropriate for you to be asking such. This is a meeting between Big Men, and that is something you cannot be."
The fire snapped, a log cracked in half and sent a cascade of sparks up into the air.
"You would question my right to sit here?" Aeva asked quietly. "No Big Man can question the ascension of another." Officially at least, a Big Man was selected by each settlement. In practice, it was done all the time, but never so blatantly.
"Under our oldest traditions," Priit agreed. "You." He pointed to the Big Man of the Hill. "What are the requirements to speak at a public gathering?"
"Since the People ended the Long Walk, those with wisdom, cunning, influence, and resourcefulness were allowed to speak," the Big Man started, uncertain. When Aeva said nothing, he continued: "Under Kaspar-In-Flesh," Aeva nearly rolled her eyes and the divine title of her father, "This was clarified. The meetings were opened to all adults. Men are recognized when they give more to the People than they take, women are recognized when they have children."
"Is this not a gathering?" Priit asked. "Each of us speak for an entire settlement. This is the purest possible distillation of a gathering. It should uphold our traditions, not flaunt them."
Priit's argument was hardly foolproof, but even to Aeva's eye, it carried a hint of earnestness to it. Combined with his recent, crushing victories and the skull of the Ivory-Blooded Chief he'd welded to his banner, Priit was poised to become a leader. Particularly among the warriors.
There was just enough there, that it could tear the People apart on the cusp of victory.
"Why, Priit?" Aeva whispered, just low enough for her counterpart to hear. "Why would you do this? There's no need for this."
The young conqueror's eye flashed. "I do this so you can't hurt us - me - again, Great Grandaunt."
Status Gained: Faction Strife (Priit's Warriors)!
A powerful faction has formed within the People, feeling that their needs have gone unmet and unheard. They plan to work together in order to address these wrongs, regardless of what it may cost. The pain of ignoring this long festering issue is now too great for it to simply be bandaged over.
Effects: Legitimacy is capped at 2 for the duration of the Strife, unique options available every phase.
Resolve Condition: Increase ???, Reform ????, or reduce Priit's support through ???
Failure Condition: Civil War
Effects: Legitimacy is capped at 2 for the duration of the Strife, unique options available every phase.
Resolve Condition: Increase ???, Reform ????, or reduce Priit's support through ???
Failure Condition: Civil War
How does Aeva respond to Priit's challenge?
[ ] [Aeva] Step down publicly. Aeva has enough experience to know who will replace her, she may rule through them. (Instantly resolves Faction Strife, +1 Legitimacy and +1 Stability)
[ ] [Aeva] Crush his faction with violence. (Current Chance of Victory Estimate: Very Small)
[ ] [Aeva] Paper Over the Cracks. (Build Temple: Crystal Lake 1/2)
[ ] [Aeva] Assert Privilege: Aeva was appointed to her position by Kaspar and she shares his divine blood. (???)
[ ] [Aeva] Rally Against Outsiders. (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability)
[ ] [Aeva] Ignore him. (???)
[ ] [Aeva] Claim the Case is different: Aeva's situation is different from that of other childless women. (???)
[ ] [Aeva] Argue the Old Rules: Aeva is old enough to have been recognized as an adult before the Trials of Adulthood were implemented. (???)
AN: Moratorium is in effect until the next threadmark tomorrow morning!
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- Location
- Somewhere
[ ] [Priit] With... eh, peace. (Trade: Northlands) (-1 Stability)
[ ] [Aeva] Step down publicly. Aeva has enough experience to know who will replace her, she may rule through them. (Instantly resolves Faction Strife, +1 Legitimacy and +1 Stability)
Nope, not dealing with this. Aeva is almost dead. Just skip the turns needed to fix this 'perfectly'.
[ ] [Aeva] Step down publicly. Aeva has enough experience to know who will replace her, she may rule through them. (Instantly resolves Faction Strife, +1 Legitimacy and +1 Stability)
Nope, not dealing with this. Aeva is almost dead. Just skip the turns needed to fix this 'perfectly'.
- Location
- United States
Fucking Priit. He might be useful but he's such a jackass. I can't believe he has so many supporters. Whatever we do, we can't just go along with him just becausr it's easy. He has consistently undermined stability and rule of law, amd most importantly the peaceful transition of power. I kind of wish we had just executed him.
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Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
We COULD implement an early Monarchy. Go the route of the pharaohs, asert divine descent, and that that grants us the right to rule.
- Location
- United States
I'm not sure which choice to go with for the Priit decision. Not sure whether to ignore him or perhaps argue the old laws. I'm leaning toward arguing the old laws since while the trial of motherhood isn't a bad idea it shouldn't be the only way for women to be considered adults.
For the war vote I think we should continue so we can consolidate our gains and reduce the Northlands' future threat.
For the war vote I think we should continue so we can consolidate our gains and reduce the Northlands' future threat.
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- Location
- USA
Yeah...suffice to say I'm pretty pissed at how close we came to collapse due to the choices of last turn. It seems the decisions, specifically the decision to punish Priit for some reason backfired, in that instead of resolving the strife that was caused by his choice to pursue justice, instead we empowered his faction of warriors, seemingly the opposite of what was intended, and thrust them into power. I find it quite hard to believe that many didn't see this outcome coming, as surprise surprise, when a faction is at war the warriors will often have outsized influence, especially if they are the ones to help win that war. Next time I will try harder to rally against a boneheaded decision like that.
Wow...this sounds rather tyrannical doesn't it? It also sounds like a very arbitrary way of settling for justice. This was not worth it. Not at all. Especially since this choice was chosen to make justice more fair, but instead it seemed to torpedo it instead, as now the law doesn't seem to matter because it doesn't protect you if you are following it, which laws are supposed to do, but instead makes you accountable only to the Big Man of your settlement. So instead of everyone being treated equally under the law, like the trait says you got to hope that you're either lucky or have it good with the judge. As now we made it so that even unintentionally harming the People through both action and now inaction is a crime.
Wow...just wow...this was a stupid decision.
Not actually too bad of a trait to gain, though I can see how societally this could turn into an issue. After all for the every day rank and file, for those who don't have the wealth to pay weregild, they will likely suffer. I mean, considering how it was described how even a martial hero like Priit suffered under this and had a hard time paying for this punishment, what do people expect the regular tribesmembers to do in this case? It's either this or become a debtor it seems, well or die, which is likely not something that will increase equality or anything under the People.
Looking at the leaderboard it seems like we are pulling away again.
This war crippled us due to some very stupid decisions on our part, but at least our warriors were hardened because of this rather than broken as they could be. We're nearly in a double digit lead at the top, which says a lot for how bad everyone else must be considering how much damage we've taken. Interesting to see that our Magic now includes the Spirits.
The Tribe of the West seems the same as last time, still recovering it seems.
The Peace Builders really got hurt by this war as well seeing how even their large number of warriors has been reduced.
I wonder why Arrow Lake seems to be surging? I'm guessing it has to do with their being lucky with their militia because I don't really see them as being on the same level as the Peace Builders.
Looks like the Island Makers slipped up due to being enraged about that damage to their canal.
Pearl Divers seem the same.
Bond Breakers with their hero seem to have improved their position seeing as they are organizing rabble rather than simply a disorganized mob like last turn.
South Lake appears in the same position, though relatively speaking they are back to being level with the Bond Breakers which suggests that things aren't going nearly as well for them.
Mountain Clans are still at the bottom.
We really crippled the Northlands as it seems we slaughtered their armies.
Except he is partially justified. Looking at things through his lens the decision we made did him wrong. As the war hero who saved the People in this war, he obviously would've gained power in this as he was expected to. In his eyes he was simply following the laws and traditions we laid out. While the consequences of his actions were severe, in the update itself, some of them believed that he was lawful in that regard and was being punished excessively for it. So it makes sense for him to lash out for this as the decision last turn did him wrong. He may be a prickly bastard, but that doesn't change the fact that this was a foreseeable conclusion. The QM confirmed last turn that Priit was likely to ascend to become a Big Man if he defeated the Ivory Blooded Chief. Lo and Behold, he did so, and our decision, well some of our votes, came to roost in that he is now turning his eyes inwards against those who he felt betrayed him. So I can see where he is coming from, especially as I tried to avert this.
So we got a bunch of interesting values:
-Weregild - We now have a substitute resolution for conflict with weregild. Where the offender is too important to the tribe to be made Debtor or executed, weregild balances it out.
-Divorce - We have a marker of how marriages don't last forever. Not necessarily a good thing for stability, but its a useful outlet.
-Consequential Punishment - Early 'objective' justice, where intent doesn't matter. Makes people more cautious overall.
Extremely valuable for us, since the social cohesion amongst elites is crucial.
Though we have to be careful about promises. We'd need to see that through.
Nepotism...well, its counterbalanced by elitism for now.
I see we've invented neolithic lawyers.
Going to need something for reciprocity to balance this, since the Big Man is too big.
Theres going to be some interesting stories in the Northlands because cavalry based fighters are practically hard countered by that particular strategy.
War over by hero kill!
Nobody thought of using girls for that yet I guess?
How does Priit plan to end the war?
[ ] [Priit] With blood! (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability)
This will fail. Our strategies said as much. We can't counter them on their own land.
[ ] [Priit] With... eh, peace. (Trade: Northlands) (-1 Stability)
If we take this we MUST raise Stability immediately or implode.
This means Aeva stepping down officially.
[ ] [Priit] In an informal truce. (Raise Warriors: Holy Orders)
See option 1. Also extra holy orders wouldn't really do anything about their home ground advantage once it resumes.
[ ] [Priit] With a party! (Annual Festival)
@Redium
I assume the Festival basically means letting it white peace out? They go home, we go home, nobody stabs anyone anymore?
Peace Builders egging it on I see. Trying to get influence in subtle and peaceful ways.
Status Gained: Faction Strife (Priit's Warriors)!
A powerful faction has formed within the People, feeling that their needs have gone unmet and unheard. They plan to work together in order to address these wrongs, regardless of what it may cost. The pain of ignoring this long festering issue is now too great for it to simply be bandaged over.
Effects: Legitimacy is capped at 2 for the duration of the Strife, unique options available every phase.
Resolve Condition: Increase ???, Reform ????, or reduce Priit's support through ???
Failure Condition: Civil War
Effects: Legitimacy is capped at 2 for the duration of the Strife, unique options available every phase.
Resolve Condition: Increase ???, Reform ????, or reduce Priit's support through ???
Failure Condition: Civil War
Conditions then:
-Increase ??? -> Religious Authority maybe? As Ember Eyes, we might pull it through with religious authority.
-Reform ??? -> This should be the Trials of Adulthood
-Reduce support through ??? -> -> I suspect this is Centralization/Hierarchy based, so he can't simply round up a group of warriors to get his own way.
How does Aeva respond to Priit's challenge?
[ ] [Aeva] Step down publicly. Aeva has enough experience to know who will replace her, she may rule through them. (Instantly resolves Faction Strife, +1 Legitimacy and +1 Stability)
We need this if we want to take true peace with the Northlands.
Won't solve the underlying issues though. The justice system and the Trials will only get harder to reform
[ ] [Aeva] Crush his faction with violence. (Current Chance of Victory Estimate: Very Small)
Crush the martial hero with force. Good luck.
[ ] [Aeva] Paper Over the Cracks. (Build Temple: Crystal Lake 1/2)
This should be progress towards increasing religious authority to offer a counterweight to the warriors?
[ ] [Aeva] Assert Privilege: Aeva was appointed to her position by Kaspar and she shares his divine blood. (???)
Divine Right. It actually works pretty well for stability right now, but we'd be switching to hereditary rule...when the ruler has no child and unlikely to get any.
[ ] [Aeva] Rally Against Outsiders. (Raid: Northlands) (+1 Stability)
We can't actually beat them.
[ ] [Aeva] Ignore him. (???)
This is how you get a rebellion.
Also undermines the Trials.
[ ] [Aeva] Claim the Case is different: Aeva's situation is different from that of other childless women. (???)
@Redium
I assume this is arguing that she's an adult under the Trial of Men under the Shaman clause?
[ ] [Aeva] Argue the Old Rules: Aeva is old enough to have been recognized as an adult before the Trials of Adulthood were implemented. (???
Literal Grandfather clause. Its a good precedent I think, but doesn't actually address the issue of the Trials having a gap.
Proto-vote:
[ ] [Priit] With... eh, peace. (Trade: Northlands) (-1 Stability)
[ ] [Aeva] Step down publicly. Aeva has enough experience to know who will replace her, she may rule through them. (Instantly resolves Faction Strife, +1 Legitimacy and +1 Stability)
This combo prioritizes restoring peace and kicks the problems down the line. It won't get easier though.
[ ] [Priit] With a party! (Annual Festival)
[ ] [Aeva] Claim the Case is different: Aeva's situation is different from that of other childless women. (???)
[ ] [Aeva] Argue the Old Rules: Aeva is old enough to have been recognized as an adult before the Trials of Adulthood were implemented. (???
Not sure which of the Aeva cases reflect what I want better.
- Location
- Somewhere
Is female rights the reason you won't peacefully resolve this?
You rail against Prit, completely ignore he was being abused, dress him as evil. All to create a narrative where women are equal to men in a tribal age? That won't last forever even if we suceed in giving women more right opportunities in the quest now. We are likely to reverse it into women are superior to men, and be stuck here again. Aevla stepping aside doesn't completely stop women equality, but does lower opportunities for such to occur. We safely skip a conflict we don't know how to succeed if Aeva steps down.
edit: Sorry, that was wrong, and insensitive.
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- Location
- United States
He wasn't abused. He killed a lot of people over a petty grudge and then tried to continue it by continuing to go after the woman who supposedly cheated on him (again, with no evidence other than a suspicion that the child wasn't his). It's not just about women's rights, it's about justice period.
Plus you know the part where he took power through murder and is threatening civil war over a personal grudge.