From a Dead World (Skaven Quest)

[Spectrum]

Anyone against putting the question to what the Ogres are up to so we can proceed with assurance?

Click to shrink...

I'd prefer not to use it yet until we have a little more consensus on what area we're targeting. So far I've seen Cathay/Nippon/Mourne, Karaz Ankor/Badlands, and Southlands floated as focus areas and I've indicated a desire to expand infiltration in other areas even if they're not main focus so as to set up for future turns.

If we're agreed to focus Cathay this turn that's fine, but if not we might be able to find a better use for the question while instead using an Authority or two to start a brushfire there and gather more intel manually.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

I'd prefer not to use it yet until we have a little more consensus on what area we're targeting. So far I've seen Cathay/Nippon/Mourne, Karaz Ankor/Badlands, and Southlands floated as focus areas and I've indicated a desire to expand infiltration in other areas even if they're not main focus so as to set up for future turns.

If we're agreed to focus Cathay this turn that's fine, but if not we might be able to find a better use for the question while instead using an Authority or two to start a brushfire there and gather more intel manually.

Click to shrink...

How is gathering intel during the turn supposed to help us with determining a target? We'd already be set per the plan for the turn.

As is I'm leaning towards the Southlands as the target for the Lizardmen stuff, and the general isolation. Cathay is too likely to garner a lot of attention and as is, they're already slated to dealing with northern invasions and Nippon.

If we choose the Ogres as the target of the question, we either eliminate them as a threat via information, or get information to help us defeat them/use them. They're the only ones majorly aware of our activities after all, and they're also right next door to our latest acquisitions.

 

[Aodyssey]

Wouldn't it be rather simple to find out what the Orge are up to with intrigue and copious bribery?

We should spend supernatural question whammy on something we can't ordinarily do.

 

[Xantalos]

@Xantalos I'm mostly trying to put to numbers Superweapon. For example, if we want to create a Fellblade equivalent weapon, say a Dragon Slaying Jezzail, how much dices would we need? Over a course of one turn? Multiple turns?

How about that canonicity of what King Arthur said

Click to shrink...

If you wanted to create something like the Fellblade (probably wouldn't be exactly the same, but with a similar killyness), it'd take 13 dice, either in one or over multiple turns. But you can make a superweapon with any number of dice, it's just that the more you put in, the more impressive the results are.

As for that ... there's rumours that the Under-Empire has heard one or twice in its history of something under Kislev. Whether that's a god, an imprisoned daemon, a weapon, or something else entirely you don't know.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Wouldn't it be rather simple to find out what the Orge are up to with intrigue and copious bribery?

We should spend supernatural question whammy on something we can't ordinarily do.

Click to shrink...

If you wanted to create something like the Fellblade (probably wouldn't be exactly the same, but with a similar killyness), it'd take 13 dice, either in one or over multiple turns. But you can make a superweapon with any number of dice, it's just that the more you put in, the more impressive the results are.

As for that ... there's rumours that the Under-Empire has heard one or twice in its history of something under Kislev. Whether that's a god, an imprisoned daemon, a weapon, or something else entirely you don't know.

Click to shrink...

It might be possible to find out what the Ogres are up to with regular stuff, yes...it's just that, the way the turn works we can't really REACT to it at the same time, because then the turn and the overall plan is already underway. I mean, unless Xantalos allows us to, I don't know, spend Authority to find out information here and now, it's not gonna be that helpful if it takes place when we can't do anything about it.

 

[Xantalos]

It might be possible to find out what the Ogres are up to with regular stuff, yes...it's just that, the way the turn works we can't really REACT to it at the same time, because then the turn and the overall plan is already underway. I mean, unless Xantalos allows us to, I don't know, spend Authority to find out information here and now, it's not gonna be that helpful if it takes place when we can't do anything about it.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, if you want information to react to this turn you have to use the Question. If you wanted to spy on someone this turn and use that information next turn, that's certainly possible.

 

[Spectrum]

How is gathering intel during the turn supposed to help us with determining a target? We'd already be set per the plan for the turn.

As is I'm leaning towards the Southlands as the target for the Lizardmen stuff, and the general isolation. Cathay is too likely to garner a lot of attention and as is, they're already slated to dealing with northern invasions and Nippon.

If we choose the Ogres as the target of the question, we either eliminate them as a threat via information, or get information to help us defeat them/use them. They're the only ones majorly aware of our activities after all, and they're also right next door to our latest acquisitions.

Click to shrink...

Wouldn't it be rather simple to find out what the Orge are up to with intrigue and copious bribery?

We should spend supernatural question whammy on something we can't ordinarily do.

Click to shrink...

Yes, that's the point. If we don't want to act against the Ogres/Cathay in force anyway, then we shouldn't use the question there and should instead gather intel manually to act next turn. Use the question on the area of focus. If it's Southlands, then use it on something there.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Yes, that's the point. If we don't want to act against the Ogres/Cathay in force anyway, then we shouldn't use the question there and should instead gather intel manually to act next turn. Use the question on the area of focus. If it's Southlands, then use it on something there.

Click to shrink...

Except if the Ogres are gathering to act against us this turn, it'll be too late to do anything about it if we try gathering intel manually.

Besides, what precisely could we get about the Southlands that would radically change what we do with our planned invasion there? Either way, we're going to be hitting the place extremely hard with a bunch of heroes and armies.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Yes, that's the point. If we don't want to act against the Ogres/Cathay in force anyway, then we shouldn't use the question there and should instead gather intel manually to act next turn. Use the question on the area of focus. If it's Southlands, then use it on something there.

Click to shrink...

That's the issue there. If the Ogres are gonna act against us this turn, that changes everything. We won't be able to do anything about it via normal information gathering, as far as making the turn plan goes.

Edit: Eshin'd

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

The way I see it, with the great exodus to the Road of Skulls under way and war not actually begun in the Far East, this is the best opportunity to take a useful but isolated target while focusing most of our Authority on getting better and incorporating the appropriate Chaos Dwarf stuff.

Though, with all we have to do, and the recent stuff from Xantalos about our ignorance on Verminlord summons and daemon-summoning, it might be better to set Daemonbinding aside or just dedicate a single Authority to learning it, maybe binding daemons to gear for elites, so that we can focus on other stuff and not spread Drazhoath's help too thin.

 

[Spectrum]

Except if the Ogres are gathering to act against us this turn, it'll be too late to do anything about it if we try gathering intel manually.

Besides, what precisely could we get about the Southlands that would radically change what we do with our planned invasion there? Either way, we're going to be hitting the place extremely hard with a bunch of heroes and armies.

Click to shrink...

That's the issue there. If the Ogres are gonna act against us this turn, that changes everything. We won't be able to do anything about it via normal information gathering, as far as making the turn plan goes.

Edit: Eshin'd

Click to shrink...

If the Ogres were going to act against us, it doesn't matter, because as I said we still spend a couple Authority there infiltrating and attempting to prompt a brushfire between them and Cathay anyway. Having confirmation that they're going to do something doesn't change anything, normal intel should work fast enough to get warning to prepare defenses organically so long as we didn't do something dumb in force distribution.

As for the Southlands, or any other place, a properly selected question can drastically reduce the difficulty/losses taken by the invasion in the target area and/or even just warn us off from it entirely.

 

[Spectrum]

The way I see it, with the great exodus to the Road of Skulls under way and war not actually begun in the Far East, this is the best opportunity to take a useful but isolated target while focusing most of our Authority on getting better and incorporating the appropriate Chaos Dwarf stuff.

Though, with all we have to do, and the recent stuff from Xantalos about our ignorance on Verminlord summons and daemon-summoning, it might be better to set Daemonbinding aside or just dedicate a single Authority to learning it, maybe binding daemons to gear for elites, so that we can focus on other stuff and not spread Drazhoath's help too thin.

Click to shrink...

It's already a special weapon of the Skaven, and a topic that will become all the more vital when we start dealing with the manipulations and touches of enemy gods, as well as combating Chaos. It's also something Thanquol can truly help with.



The end of the first battle showed he has a definite interest in this stuff.

Click to shrink...

Your response before was too vague. What specifically did you finger as a special weapon of the Skaven that I wasn't keen on?

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Your response before was too vague. What specifically did you finger as a special weapon of the Skaven that I wasn't keen on?

Click to shrink...

Daemon-summoning, and from it, daemonbinding. But Xantalos recently revealed we don't know a LOT of stuff regarding the subject, so it'll take a bit more diverse effort and such to really make it effective as I wished.

 

[Chimeraguard]

If the Ogres were going to act against us, it doesn't matter, because as I said we still spend a couple Authority there infiltrating and attempting to prompt a brushfire between them and Cathay anyway. Having confirmation that they're going to do something doesn't change anything, normal intel should work fast enough to get warning to prepare defenses organically so long as we didn't do something dumb in force distribution.

Click to shrink...

And if it turns out the Ogres were already going to hit Cathay, that means we'll have wasted a couple Authority we could have spent more productively on actually doing stuff to develop our infrastructure, research new weapons, and so forth in a relatively calm time of the game where we have those opportunities.

Besides, Greassus is already aware of us from how we hired all of his disgruntled Tyrants to hit the Chaos Dwarves. I'm fairly sure he'll be taking careful steps in case we try something else after that.

The Southlands, we can make recon a part of the planning to ensure we know what is vulnerable. The Question is just more efficient to use on the Ogres instead.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Sometimes it's just more efficient overall to use the Question for something simpler.

The Ogres are key because of what they know and their potential to embroil the Far East in a four way slugfest. They're worth getting that information on, and are important enough to thus determine what they're doing, which will effectively determine what WE do.

 

[Spectrum]

And if it turns out the Ogres were already going to hit Cathay, that means we'll have wasted a couple Authority we could have spent more productively on actually doing stuff to develop our infrastructure, research new weapons, and so forth in a relatively calm time of the game where we have those opportunities.

Besides, Greassus is already aware of us from how we hired all of his disgruntled Tyrants to hit the Chaos Dwarves. I'm fairly sure he'll be taking careful steps in case we try something else after that.

The Southlands, we can make recon a part of the planning to ensure we know what is vulnerable. The Question is just more efficient to use on the Ogres instead.

Click to shrink...

Even if the Ogres were going to hit Cathay by default, we want to trigger all these things early and be prepared to control them and make the problem worse. The authority isn't spent just to trigger the attack, it's to keep inflaming things, make sure both sides take greater losses, and increase infiltration. Regardless of using the Question or not, we -need- to spend Authority there.

By contrast normal recon on the Southlands is less effective regarding the lizardmen there. We don't have any idea what they're up to and it's going to be expensive to expend Skaven to do so from everything that I'm aware of.

 

[King Arthur]

@King Arthur Wait, wait, wait, what is this about Goddess of Law? The Skaven people are always up for munchies.

We could do that instead, yes. I think we want the Empire and their allies to beat back Chaos, barely, because it'd be harder to deal with a victorious Chaos.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, Arianka, Tzeentch was scared of her or something and so locked her in this super amazing coffin and she's trapped in there. Rumor has it said coffin is located in the city of Praag, which is a city in Kislev.

However, she hasn't really been mentioned since first edition. Her husband, Solkan, has been mentioned since then but no word on Arianka.

Anyone against putting the question to what the Ogres are up to so we can proceed with assurance?

Click to shrink...

I was sort of thinking of asking like "who, not including loyal Skaven, is the biggest threat Skaven dominance?" but that sounds liek a good question as well.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Even if the Ogres were going to hit Cathay by default, we want to trigger all these things early and be prepared to control them and make the problem worse. The authority isn't spent just to trigger the attack, it's to keep inflaming things, make sure both sides take greater losses, and increase infiltration. Regardless of using the Question or not, we -need- to spend Authority there.

By contrast normal recon on the Southlands is less effective regarding the lizardmen there. We don't have any idea what they're up to and it's going to be expensive to expend Skaven to do so from everything that I'm aware of.

Click to shrink...

I suppose there's rationale there. Plus, the main issue is our cap limit for operating in Mourne anyway, so even if we knew what they were doing...

Alright. Nippon is likely to move against the Dragon Emperor anyway, if we can provoke a confrontation between Cathay and the Ogres while expanding our infiltration, that could be the key to embroiling the Far East and setting it up for conquest quite soon, while avoiding the need for an immediate full scale invasion.

I want to spend a minimum of six Authority on Dawi-Zharr research incorporation and USA/Mors style awesomeness as well as spreading that shit throughout Skavenkind. Maybe two for infiltration and brushfires against Cathay in Mourne, the rest for whatever invasion.

To give perspective, two was used on the Ogres last time, and now we have an influx of material wealth for Greassus and preexisting and proven of influencing other Ogres.

Personally I favor more improvement, but as far as what NEEDS to be done, this is probably favorable.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Yeah, Arianka, Tzeentch was scared of her or something and so locked her in this super amazing coffin and she's trapped in there. Rumor has it said coffin is located in the city of Praag, which is a city in Kislev.

However, she hasn't really been mentioned since first edition. Her husband, Solkan, has been mentioned since then but no word on Arianka.


I was sort of thinking of asking like "who, not including loyal Skaven, is the biggest threat Skaven dominance?" but that sounds liek a good question as well.

Click to shrink...

too vague stuff to act on though.

A question like that is just gonna point at one of the biggest powers, most likely Chaos. It's not a majorly hard guess, and at this point it isn't not efficient to move against the big powers anyway.

 

[Spectrum]

Let me propose something like this for the Authority split:

2 Authority on expanding infiltration in Mourne and Cathay and attempting to inflame hostilities between the two (through whatever means necessary, frame them for conflicts, make Cathay look weak to the Ogres for ripe for plunder, etc) - Eshin w/ the Bank consulting

2 Authority on researching new technologies with specific hero assignments

• Chaos Dwarf War Machines - Skyre, Grey Seers, Mors, USA + Drazhoath
• Port of Ruin - Skyre, Navy
• Taurus Mutation - Moulder
• (Alternatively: Lore of Azgorh - Drazhoath + Thanquol instead of putting Draz on War Machines)
• Spreading hygiene to other Clans (or enhancing basic Mors/USA fighters or something) - Horripila
• Anti-Dwarf plagues (or basic Greenskin studies or whatever) - Pestilens

3 Authority on securing hold in the Dark Lands, rebuilding damaged forces from the invasion, building new infrastructure for settlements, and continuing Mors and USA synergy exercises. All clans can get enclaves in the Dark Lands to build new areas in but first and priority selection goes with who contributed and lost the most in the operation, starting with Mors.

For clans rebuilding their forces, they should use the Tear Beneath The Daemon's Stump and the Labyrinth Beneath Uzkulak as a training ground and to retrieve what treasures they can from it.
​

6 Authority on the invasion target. If Mourne/Cathay were selected as the target, then 2 Authority can be split off instead from here to begin infiltration elsewhere to prep for next turn.


I really want: "2 Authority on expanding infiltration in Nekehara and Araby, find out what is going on there. Characterize what is necessary to make Araby unite more and go on the offensive against a common foe and what is necessary to cause them to split up into infighting again - Eshin w/ Rictus consulting for Nekehara" But I can't quite see how we can afford it.

 

[Chimeraguard]

The Vaults/Grey/Black Mountains
Authority Cap: None
You are mostly uncontested in this region, though like seemingly every mountainous region in the world, dragon ogres have awoken from their slumber in unprecedented numbers.

Click to shrink...

Hmm. I'd like to spend an Authority to try and kill off any and all Dragon Ogres here. Chaos should be interfered with whenever possible, and this is mostly our territory aside from three Dwarf Karaks. Best not to have a bunch of Dragon Ogres rampaging around, possibly killing our guys and attracting attention, and maybe Moulder can come up with some ideas from their corpses.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Let me propose something like this for the Authority split:

2 Authority on expanding infiltration in Mourne and Cathay and attempting to inflame hostilities between the two (through whatever means necessary, frame them for conflicts, make Cathay look weak to the Ogres for ripe for plunder, etc) - Eshin w/ the Bank consulting

2 Authority on researching new technologies with specific hero assignments

• Chaos Dwarf War Machines - Skyre, Grey Seers, Mors, USA + Drazhoath
• Port of Ruin - Skyre, Navy
• Taurus Mutation - Moulder
• (Alternatively: Lore of Azgorh - Drazhoath + Thanquol instead of putting Draz on War Machines)
• Spreading hygiene to other Clans (or enhancing basic Mors/USA fighters or something) - Horripila
• Anti-Dwarf plagues (or basic Greenskin studies or whatever) - Pestilens

3 Authority on securing hold in the Dark Lands, rebuilding damaged forces from the invasion, building new infrastructure for settlements, and continuing Mors and USA synergy exercises. All clans can get enclaves in the Dark Lands to build new areas in but first and priority selection goes with who contributed and lost the most in the operation, starting with Mors.

For clans rebuilding their forces, they should use the Tear Beneath The Daemon's Stump and the Labyrinth Beneath Uzkulak as a training ground and to retrieve what treasures they can from it.
​

6 Authority on the invasion target. If Mourne/Cathay were selected as the target, then 2 Authority can be split off instead from here to begin infiltration elsewhere to prep for next turn.


I really want: "2 Authority on expanding infiltration in Nekehara and Araby, find out what is going on there. Characterize what is necessary to make Araby unite more and go on the offensive against a common foe and what is necessary to cause them to split up into infighting again - Eshin w/ Rictus consulting for Nekehara" But I can't quite see how we can afford it.

Click to shrink...

The second part is a bit of an issue as, besides Thanquol, who is best used for magic-related stuff, it's just one Hero per Authority. It's why I want 3 Authority for the War Machines and Creatures-greater success, and allows for a Skyre Hero, Moulder Hero, and Drazhoath.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

@Xantalos

If we were to stick 6 Authority on "getting the spoils of the Dark Lands" and stuffed into the text War Machines, Creatures, and USA/Mors stuff, would each benefit more than if we split the first two into 3 Authoritied and the last one into three Authorities? I mean, the thing with the Drillfiend creation and the USA/Mors collaboration was all piled into 4 Authority/Dice, so I'm not sure what the effect was.

And is Authority required for Drazhoath to teach Thanquol the Lore of Azgorh?

Finally, would the Tear count as a magical research project?

 

[Spectrum]

The second part is a bit of an issue as, besides Thanquol, who is best used for magic-related stuff, it's just one Hero per Authority. It's why I want 3 Authority for the War Machines and Creatures-greater success, and allows for a Skyre Hero, Moulder Hero, and Drazhoath.

Click to shrink...

Yes, that's true, but a lot of those don't have to specifically assign a hero, because natural inclinations would probably have those Heroes on those projects normally. From my perspective we really need/want to use Authority for where they might have multiple projects and need to steer them or wouldn't normally do it.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Also, I think Mors/USA should be offered certain rights to the use of Broodmothers to build up a force around which the spread of such brilliance can begin.