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From a Dead World (Skaven Quest)

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Chimeraguard said:
I'd think it'd be a point in favor of them and the Grey Seers.

I mean, it accomplished the goal we set out for them. Perhaps even more successfully than we envisioned. So what if hundreds of thousands of Skaven are getting eaten by it? We've just got to research more about Demonology to figure out a way to bypass that flaw and we have all the good stuff and none of the bad.
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Yeah, probably right.

On a different note, I've been considering our next question of Verminking and the possibility of perhaps asking what must be avoided/done to prevent the Great Ascension failing as similar attempts have before, maybe get some passive effort on Thanquol's part to manage that shit or simply some info about what and how we need to word things to prevent excessive infighting.
 
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@Spectrum

At this point, it could indeed be a good idea to work on luring the Dragon Ogres out of Mourne. Maybe some "help" noticing the Ogres are entering Cathay, using magic or daemons to trick them into thinking Chaos is sending them there, spread a rumor on the ind (magical or otherwise) of the dragon ruling Cathay, etc.

If we could somehow get the message across without the messengers, whatever form or way the time take, being killed or disregarded, the potential to tear down the Grand Bastion or something could be a powerful incentive.

Perhaps we could try inciting a conflict with the border outposts Cathay has in Mourne and work from there?

On the other hand, considering these are massive Shaggoths so close to the Chaos Wastes, the effort required might be an inefficient use of Authority...
 
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Eh. I floated it originally and no one actually liked the idea for reasons I can't be currently bothered to go dig up. I don't think that's changed over a turn.

Beyond that we probably still have too many fires to put out.
 
Spectrum said:
Eh. I floated it originally and no one actually liked the idea for reasons I can't be currently bothered to go dig up. I don't think that's changed over a turn.

Beyond that we probably still have too many fires to put out.
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Perhaps, but there is potential to be had in pushing them into the clusterfuck of Cathay so we don't have to suffer excessive casualties taking Mourne.

It largely, as you've indicated, depends on the broad situation.
 
Hmm...Pestilens is in control of Daemon's Stump and has a presence in the Hell Pit near the Infinite Warren. And Nurglitch has been contemplating the use of the stable Warp portal, and they're effectively number two in the potential of the daemonic.

But, the Grey Seers are far more explicit in it being their expertise.
 
Hm. Having read the Infinite Warren update, and then EVA's omake on Helkic maybe becoming a Verminlord...
Chimeraguard said:
In battle, it was a very different story. Their eyes went alert, their postures sharp and coordinated, their red and green eyes would pour over the lines of their foes with acuteness. In a burst of frantic speed they dash towards their targets, all pretense of weakness gone as they pinpoint the slightest weak point and pounce on it mercilessly in a storm of chittering shrieks, crawling under shield walls, lanky arms grabbing foes with unnatural strength, blades melting armor like acid, and warpstone-encrusted teeth biting into flesh. Larger creatures are beset as if by a pack of hunters, stabbing, dashing, cutting, biting.

If they are not the manifestation of the power of the Under-Empire, perhaps they are something more basic. They are the at the core of every Skaven, of the vast teeming hordes. Weak appearing, pathetic, starving, unnatural, looked down upon by their betters and individually unimpressive, and yet together possibly the greatest threat one could have the misfortune of encountering. They are savage, they are intelligent, they are relentless.

They are the Verminfiends.
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My mind also went to the Verminfiends omake... Maybe the Infinite Warren won't just be about ascending into a Verminlord. Maybe it's a hint or first step into 'finding' or 'reaching' the Lesser Daemons of the Horned Rat.

Also, one thing that I was thinking when I was reading the Verminfiend omake? Is that their description, somehow, reminded me of Sleek and what he's been turning the Unified Skaven Army into. Just... something about it. About the way he was able to channel the "in a group, Skaven are fucking terrifying to fight" and how the Verminfiends were representations of "how deadly and dangerous Skaven can be in a group."

(If Sleek eventually got to be a Verminfiend General or Exalted, like some Verminfiend equivalent of Skulltaker who's 'only' a Bloodletter but is still a big deal, that'd be pretty damn cool actually... Probably more like a CREEED Skaven rather than an individual badass though. Or maybe he'd get buffs from how many skaven or skaven daemons he's leading, hmm...)
 
Garlak said:
Hm. Having read the Infinite Warren update, and then EVA's omake on Helkic maybe becoming a Verminlord...

My mind also went to the Verminfiends omake... Maybe the Infinite Warren won't just be about ascending into a Verminlord. Maybe it's a hint or first step into 'finding' or 'reaching' the Lesser Daemons of the Horned Rat.

Also, one thing that I was thinking when I was reading the Verminfiend omake? Is that their description, somehow, reminded me of Sleek and what he's been turning the Unified Skaven Army into. Just... something about it. About the way he was able to channel the "in a group, Skaven are fucking terrifying to fight" and how the Verminfiends were representations of "how deadly and dangerous Skaven can be in a group."

(If Sleek eventually got to be a Verminfiend General or Exalted, like some Verminfiend equivalent of Skulltaker who's 'only' a Bloodletter but is still a big deal, that'd be pretty damn cool actually... Probably more like a CREEED Skaven rather than an individual badass though. Or maybe he'd get buffs from how many skaven or skaven daemons he's leading, hmm...)
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Huh. I suppose that "turn them into lesser demons" *might* be a reasonable solution to "how do we keep our heroes from dying of old age".

...at least, on Skaven "reasonableness" scales.
 
Orks or Skaven...? It's great that they're an entire universe apart since I wouldn't be able to choose between the two of them.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
plus, it's probably already occurred and blew up somehow with over 4000 years of history.
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Probably, but what with the way most research that isn't looting other people's shit works (assuming there are so many mad scientist skaven out there that any ridiculous project could feasibly have already been conducted, it's mostly a matter of finding it and making it on a mass scale), there's no reason you couldn't give it a try.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Given the focus and amplification of certain traits from vampirism and considering the typical Skaven character, I believe that would be a very bad idea...plus, it's probably already occurred and blew up somehow with over 4000 years of history.
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I doubt Vampirism meshes well with the Black Hunger either.

It's a big question if a biological condition like that would effect the mostly spiritual hunger that vampires have, but I could see them just rapidly degrading into beasts like the Varghulfs
 
shenron said:
I doubt Vampirism meshes well with the Black Hunger either.

It's a big question if a biological condition like that would effect the mostly spiritual hunger that vampires have, but I could see them just rapidly degrading into beasts like the Varghulfs
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Sounds about right. Really, with the extremes vampirism takes one and how deep into certain traits and characteristics the Skaven already are, they'd probably be torn apart body and soul by the upsurge.
 
Oh, I don't think I've outright said it in-thread: next snippet consists of Ikit Claw and Drazhoath Ash-Fur collaborating to finish as much of the chaos dwarf research as they can and mass-produce what weapons they can to supply the two campaigns. Just to give y'all an idea of what to expect.
 
As I said, for the thread:

I love jolly good research times between sociopathic science mages with penchants for explosions and destruction!
 
King Arthur said:
Still hoping we do Vampires Skaven at some point.
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Given the focus and amplification of certain traits from vampirism and considering the typical Skaven character, I believe that would be a very bad idea...plus, it's probably already occurred and blew up somehow with over 4000 years of history.
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shenron said:
I doubt Vampirism meshes well with the Black Hunger either.

It's a big question if a biological condition like that would effect the mostly spiritual hunger that vampires have, but I could see them just rapidly degrading into beasts like the Varghulfs
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Sounds about right. Really, with the extremes vampirism takes one and how deep into certain traits and characteristics the Skaven already are, they'd probably be torn apart body and soul by the upsurge.
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Hmm... Heh, an idea -- no need to try to figure out how to Vampirize Skaven. Or at least, no need to start delving into that, when you can first try a quick and simple experiment instead: Can you cast the Thirteenth Spell on a Vampire?

Might be an interesting thing to check on all sorts of things, actually. Does it work on Undead? On Daemons? Ghosts? Daemonhosts? What about Fae? Or Treekin, which are forest spirits possessing trees? What happens if you use it on a monster -- like a mammoth, dragon, or sea serpent? Hydra, manticore, chimera? Or an ogre or dragon ogre? Giants?

Or does the Thirteenth Spell basically only just work on, like, humans/elves/dwarfs/halflings and not on more exotic things or monsters? (Might not even work on dwarfs normally, due to their magic/chaos resistance; maybe Chaos Dwarfs were more susceptible due to being corrupted.) Would be sad if that turned out to be the case. But even then, there should probably be some edge cases maybe.

I can totally see mammoths turning into giant goddam rats with tusks. Or Tyrannosaurus Rat. Or manticores or chimera or hydras being transformable to a degree, getting more rat-like features or rat heads. Actually, these don't even have to be 13th Spell things at all -- they sound like perfectly acceptable Clan Moulder projects. Tell me you don't see it; a Skaven going "I'ma stich Rat-ogre heads onto the Hydra, or try to insert Skaven cells and genetics into the Hydra to see if I can make it grow heads." Or maybe trying to combine Skalm, Hydras, and Dragon Ogre lightning regeneration to make one unholy monstrosity...


Hm. I wonder what happens if you bind a Daemon into somebody, and then try to turn them into a Vampire?

If it is even possible, and if it succeeds, would it be like "nailing" the Daemon more fully into the physical world?

A less questionable and uncertain thing however, would be to just... take somebody who is already a Vampire and try to bind a Daemon into them.

If you bind Chaos Daemons into somebody, and cast the 13th Spell on them, does that also affect the Daemon within -- turning them into a Daemon of the Horned Rat?
(I... vaaaguely recall something written about how the Horned Rat sometimes snatches Daemons or artifacts from Nurgle, to turn into Horned Rat daemons or artifacts? Maybe? This was vague memories from years ago... But it does seem possible in general, doesn't it? For example; Daemon ascension exists, yes? And the 13th Spell exists, yes? Meaning that hypothetically, somebody could be turned into a Skaven and then be the most Skaven to ever Skaven, such that the Horned Rat decides to turn him into a Daemon; thus in that sense you could say you've turned a non-Skaven soul into not merely a Skaven soul, but a Skaven Daemon.)

Man, I can't wait to breakthrough on Chaos Dwarf daemonbinding so we can start permanently given Verminlords physical bodies by having them possess Dragons or something! Because if Chaos can have Chaos Dragons, why not Skaven? ... Actually, Chaos Dragons didn't require Dawi Zharr daemonbinding; it was just a Greater Daemon overtaking a Dragon. I wonder why Verminlords can't do that already. Still; it's probably easier to figure out and manage if you actually have daemonbinding.

Naturally we wouldn't want to enslave our own Daemons. That'd be super-heretical. But just giving them a permanent physical shell, a host... Well. That would mean we wouldn't be stuck to however many Verminlords we could summon at once or summon and maintain. We'd be able to build up a... a Strategic Verminlord Reserve. :drevil:

God, both daemonbinding and the 13th Spell and summoning of Skaven daemons are things I really really want to explore and them combine into unholy bastard abominable hybrids. The next generation of Skaven Doombells are going to be freaking horrifying.

At the least, maybe we'll be able to invent the Skaven equivalent of a Chaos Spawn. I'm surprised Skaven can't already do this, in fact; they are, after all, the faction most closely associated with things like "nuclear radiation" and we all know how atomic waste can create monsters. If comic books can have radiation create monsters, I don't see why Skaven couldn't. That seems very thematic. :p


And, you know, we do have that piece of the Horned Rat's domain that intrudes into the physical world to practice and experiment all these things in...

It's too bad the turn plan is probably going to kill Myrmidia. Being able to capture her would be awesome. Being able to see if it's possible to turn her into a Skaven, or sacrifice her to the Horned Rat in the Infinite Warren, would be really cool and probably teach the Skaven interesting things about divinity and transformation.
 
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Garlak said:
That'd be super-heretical.
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Or would it?

See, everything's politics for the skaven. Even the theoretically untouchable Grey Seers can still be leveraged and bullied into doing what one wants if you have enough political force. Their daemons aren't exempt from this, they just happen to live in the Warp so they have that layer of one-way inaccessibility and power on their side, things which researching stuff relating to them will even out.

Basically heresy's a matter of if the one calling it has a bigger stick than you.

Man, I love that I get to actively encourage you to commit war crimes on the psychic manifestations of your species' existential terror.
 
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Xantalos said:
See, everything's politics for the skaven. Even the theoretically untouchable Grey Seers can still be leveraged and bullied into doing what one wants if you have enough political force. Their daemons aren't exempt from this, they just happen to live in the Warp so they have that layer of one-way inaccessibility and power on their side, things which researching stuff relating to them will even out.

Basically heresy's a matter of if the one calling it has a bigger stick than you.
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The problem is that eventually Skaven die. And then their souls go to where the rat-daemons are...

The problem is it's your own spirits. The Chaos Dwarfs did it to Chaos Daemons, but their souls go to Hashut rather than the 4 Chaos Gods. Binding the things that are in charge of your own afterlife? Bad idea.

In other words, don't try this until you're confident you can beat them even when you're in the afterlife.
 
Regarding the 13th spell being cast on daemons/daemon weapons I've been trying to come up with an interesting take on a Chaos Champion being hit with the 13th Spell and their Daemonspear being pulled along for the ride. The major piece to it is someone with the raw aggression and bloodthirsty of Khorne being given the paranoia and near-schizophrenia of the Skaven, with a dash of the Black Hunger that meshes just a little too well with their prior mental associations with blood and violence.

I am just a tad stuck on where and how to set the scene. The viewpoint will be fun but I want it to be a believable and interesting scene, like trapped in the Infinite Warren and cutting a deal with a Verminlord to escape, fighting their way out if the Dark Lands after acquiring their spear from the Chaos Dwarves and being caught by a Grey Seers spell, or some other example. All ending in gratuitous violence and madness of course with a lone Skaven in plate armor kneeling over half eaten corpses and clutching a twisted spear, but the journey is half the fun.
 
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Pathos said:
I am just a tad stuck on where and how to set the scene. The viewpoint will be fun but I want it to be a believable and interesting scene, like trapped in the Infinite Warren and cutting a deal with a Verminlord to escape, fighting their way out if the Dark Lands after acquiring their spear from the Chais Dwarves and being caught by a Grey Seers spell, or some other example.
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Hm. Maybe he just got jumped by a bunch of Skaven who wanted to take his stuff? Where "his stuff" is defined as "also the warrior himself, because why not." So, the Chaos Warrior got dogpiled (ratpiled?) by a bunch of Skaven rat ogres and monsters all because somebody wanted to do mad science (mad magic?) and poke things with a stick. He orders some underlings to do it, or buys enough Moulder monsters, or hires a company of army rats or something. Has them throw a small distraction horde plus rat ogres to mob a Chaos guy, finally manages to bring him down.

As for who would be doing this, what their motivations might be...

A Grey Seer, who heard about how the Chaos Dwarfs were transformed and how it got the Skaven goodies, so he ambitiously wants to see if he can find a good transformation target. Or... any number of the reasons and speculations I had in the post above. Or maybe he's after intelligence and information on Chaos rather than secrets. Or perhaps... the Grey Seer got a visit or message from a Verminlord, or an omen from the Horned Rat, saying "go do this thing."

Or maybe it's Clan Moulder who want to build a better monster (like they always do) and they've bribed a Grey Seer to cast the spell on the guys they capture. Chaos Warrior armor is so varied, maybe it has some magical ability to always fit its wielder. And if it has that, then maybe it'll fit on a rat ogre... Or maybe they were going for the Chaos Warrior's monster mount and simply got the warrior in the bargain; except then the monster didn't survive, but the warrior did, so they're just trying to recoup losses.

Or maybe it's Clan Mors. Their interest is more in the armor and weapons the Chaos Warrior wears and wields; transforming the Chaos Warrior is just a means to an end. That end being to get the secrets of how Chaos Armor and stuff works. Or at least to study the Chaos Warrior-Chaos Warrior Armor symbiosis and how it works.
 
If we're lucky, the Murines will get some decent captains as prisoners to add to the Navy, given the nature of their operation.
 
Spectrum said:
If it wouldn't be much work (and if anyone has any ideas), the obvious holdovers from the Dwarves should probably be skaven-ified. Uzkulak, Tower of Gorgoth, Black Fortress, and Daemon's Stump probably. Maybe Mount Grimfang.
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Bit of a harken back to an older post, but while working on my omake idea I spent some time thinking of a good location to set it and Uzkulak seemed to fit the idea of where a Chaos Champion/Lord but I like the idea of doing a general rename of the distinctly non-Skaven place. What does everyone think of Skinner's Spire as a rename for Uzkulak?

Changing from "Place of the Skull" to a similarly macabre title. Skinner's Spire is also a rather obvious reference to the Skinner Box and how Clan Mors and the USA work via operant conditioning to create loyal-esque soldiers. The new name is also another oblique reference to how Clan Horripila is most certainly making use of all the "wash outs" from the USA's training for experimentation and resources to supplement the distribution of uniforms, capes, blankets, bandages, dressings, and everything else that fur, meat, bone, and leather are useful for.

Gonna try something interesting and write out the flow of battle for the omake by playing out an ambush of a 2,000 pt Warriors of Chaos army by a 3,000 pt Skaven Horde along the Road of Skulls. Fun fact, after building a quick and dirty army list the WoC number at 64 Warriors, 8 Knights, and 1 Chaos Lord while the Skaven number 240 Clanrats, 120 Stormvermin with 6 Fang Leaders and 2 Ratling Gunner crews, 5 Rat Ogres with a Master Moulder, and 1 Grey Sear specced for the Dreaded 13th Spell riding atop a Screaming Bell.

Yeah, the warband was very much not expecting the Skaven to be as deadly as they are going to be since to quote the post that prompted us to construct the Infinite Warren,
Xantalos said:
Norsca is perhaps one of the most hazardous places on the planet as of now. The entire country is suffused in so much of the warp that reality itself has begun to be warped, and daemons stalk the land in gigantic armies. Many of the minor clans in the area have been wiped out for sport, and it is likely that assaults will be made on the major holdings the skaven have here soon.
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Results and the omake should be posted in around 20 hours once I sleep, get home from work, and actually run this hilarious slug fest. If anyone wants to nominate character names instead of my hitting up a name generator for the 6 Fang Leaders and the Grey Seer we'll see who comes out alive for future battles alongside the possible newest addition to the USA.

This is gonna be a very fun afternoon for me and should yield some interesting results.
 
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