And we don't know that she wasn't direct. "Emma stole my homework and threw it away and Sophia hit me" is also a possibility. Consider that in the original story at least Taylor was a chatterbox before the bullying started and was considered gifted enough that her parents talked about her skipping grades. (Her mother thought it would be good for her, her father disagreed.) So why shouldn't we consider the possibility that she did try, try really hard to bring the bullying up with her father but that he was too caught up in his own grief, depression and other issues to pay attention to her. And due to him basically ignoring her problems over a period of time she learned not to bring them to him.
Firebird, a Worm AU/Xover?
- Thread starter chibipoe
- Start date
And we don't know that she wasn't direct. "Emma stole my homework and threw it away and Sophia hit me" is also a possibility. Consider that in the original story at least Taylor was a chatterbox before the bullying started and was considered gifted enough that her parents talked about her skipping grades. (Her mother thought it would be good for her, her father disagreed.) So why shouldn't we consider the possibility that she did try, try really hard to bring the bullying up with her father but that he was too caught up in his own grief, depression and other issues to pay attention to her. And due to him basically ignoring her problems over a period of time she learned not to bring them to him.
First point, if you are bad at something sometimes the best thing you can do is hand it off.
Second point, Taylor has already shown that she does not respect him, she lies to him and ignores him, she refuses to adhere to the boundaries that he sets, why would Taylor listen to anything Danny has to say?
Third point, see the above it's kind of the same point.
Aside that it is completely counter from both characters canon characterizations?
We see Danny's response to the bullying when he finds out, and it is a white hot rage, we also see Taylor's which is there is no point. We also know from canon that Taylor hides things and refuses to go to authority figures.
I mean you could ignore that, but then what is the point of not making them OCs?
Plus without Sophia in the wards there is not even the PRT covered it up thing.
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Unlikely. Danny is oblivious, but at least in canon it was fairly clear he had no idea that Emma was a bully to her, he just thought that they had drifted apart. In other words, he probably wouldn't notice anything if she didn't tell him it straight up, but depressed or not he still loves her and wouldn't brush away that kind of accusation. Taylor just never really committed to telling him about it. He still should have noticed though, it was really pretty obvious.
Tiypo
Forever Phone Posting
That has to be the LEAST reasonable thing to do that I've seen suggested, ESPECIALLY with the concept of Simurgh-Mind-Rape out there. And on top of that Danny IS being the reasonable one, Taylor even acknowledges that, which is why she can't convince him to let her not join the Wards.
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.. If Danny isn't listening to nor considering the points that Taylor raises he is not, by definition, being reasonable. He is giving the appearance of being reasonable. There's a difference between the two.If Danny was being reasonable and his daughter was absolutely dead-set against a course of action and he knew that the Protectorate / PRT had already gone behind his back to try and recruit Taylor (repeatedly) before he was contacted or informed then he'd be trying to figure out a course of action that would keep Taylor safe and deal with her "trust issues regarding the Protectorate."
(Note the second and third components of that supposition are both true and he knows it.)
The thing we have to remember is that, as others have suggested, Danny is most likely dealing with a long-term depression. On some level he's got to be aware of that. (Let's hear it for the human subconscious mind.) Why does that matter? Because Danny just got a massive reality check. She's been lying to him for a while. Her former best friend has been bullying her. His daughter was traumatized into becoming a cape. Now she's sneaking out to risk certain death! The list goes on and on ..
.. and Danny never noticed. He has to be asking himself how he didn't notice right now. As such I find it quite reasonable to believe that Danny is so busy asking himself how he could have possibly screwed up so badly as a parent that he's lost all faith in his own decision-making process.
But wait! There are experts, people who have lived this life, taught others, and have all the answers! They came to him with information and a strong desire to keep his daughter safe. (Enter Armsmaster, stage right..)
Take one part depression, mix in one part fear that any decision he makes will be the wrong one, and add in one authority figure. I've seen worse reasons for people to foist decisions off on others.
On a personal level I, the reader, find this situation infuriating because I can see the train-wreck coming. I cannot see a positive outcome in this. (Note I haven't ruled out chibipoe surprising me, I just can't see it from "here.") That doesn't mean that what Danny is doing is unrealistic. Sadly I find it very realistic.
Does Amy know Taylor's a cape at this point?
As for he argument of signing up for Wards because being alone is not a good idea, hasn't Taylor been presented with two different alternatives both of whom she likes better and one of which she already willingly associates and works with (New Wave by way of Victoria) and the other of which she theoretically would? (I can't believe I forgot their names) I know she hasn't pointed them out with Danny but it's also continually restated that she's used precog to view different arguments she could make with her dad and seen them all as ineffective and it seems likely that bringing them up has been one of those attempts. This indicates to me that Danny's position isn't just "you need to have backup because not having backup is stupid and dangerous" so much as it is "wards way or the highway" which makes his side a lot less sympathetic in my eyes.
As for Taylor's hypocrisy: I won't deny that she has some but a lot of the teenager hypocrisy stuff tends to come from them having less experience articulating their viewpoint, Taylor's could be articulated better as "you didn't have time when I actually needed help but now that I have something really good going for me you're free to step in and ruin that?" Or "You didn't feel like talking about my problems before and now you don't feel like talking about my future?" Still has shades of hypocrisy but not as much as the two stances put forth separately in teenager speak.
Oh and no. Mind slaving is bad.
Pyrion
Asuran Rights Activist
- Location
- Spirit Lake, ID
Do bear in mind that Taylor, in pretty much all of her incarnations (canon and otherwise), is the classic example of an Unreliable Narrator. Just because she says she did something doesn't necessarily mean she did it exactly as you, or she, for that matter, thinks she did.
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If Danny was being reasonable and his daughter was absolutely dead-set against a course of action and he knew that the Protectorate / PRT had already gone behind his back to try and recruit Taylor (repeatedly) before he was contacted or informed then he'd be trying to figure out a course of action that would keep Taylor safe and deal with her "trust issues regarding the Protectorate."
(Note the second and third components of that supposition are both true and he knows it.)
Taylor has in this fic straight out said that her reasons boil down to " I don't wanna". And secondly sometimes being reasonable as a parent does not mean talking it out with your kid. It is not a relationship between equals. Sometimes a parent just has to say no.
Dopplerdee
Accident Prone(Yes the caps are necessary)
- Location
- Happy Place
- Pronouns
- She/Her
He doesn't want to mess up so he's messing up to try not to mess up....he might not be in an equal relationship but if so he needs to be the bigger person....he's not he can't have both 'i'm bigger than you' and 'I don't have to be the bigger person'
As was lost in my absurd word dump back there her argument is actually "I don't wanna and I have alternatives which I like more and am thus more likely to turn to and work with and who you won't consider because you've been brainwashed by marketing" just because they're confined to pre-cog so far or because Taylor somehow hasn't thought of them doesn't mean they don't exist.
Edit- additionally she's not in a state of don't wanna just because she's in a state of don't wanna because the initial image of the PRT she was presented with was one she didn't like the idea of working with
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Sasha
Not the Leader
- Location
- The Ever After
As of now, no, it hasn't been explicitly stated that Amy knows Taylor is a cape. It is possible that she does, or that she suspects so, but it has not been mentioned in the story.
The passage I quoted from 2.8, however, means that there is a very good chance that she will put two and two together. Once she hears about Glory Girl and Sirin taking Mush down at the same time Vicky said she was talking with Taylor, well, she'll have some pretty strong evidence to support the idea.
Sasha
Not the Leader
- Location
- The Ever After
You just answered your own question.
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Because of bumbling on the part of the local Protectorate personnel, and that she does have other options with people she likes/at least tolerates.
Oh yeah that's pretty true. Maybe she brought it up offscreen?
chibipoe
May I tell you of the glory that is Catradora?
- Location
- Astoria, Oregon
Ah, shit. You're right. Damnit. GG almost inadvertently blows the secret there, doesn't she? Damnit, how did I miss that when writing it....
Oh well, I'll roll with it. Probably intentional, even if I didn't realize it at the time.
Sasha
Not the Leader
- Location
- The Ever After
I'm guessing Vicky would have denied it, given her attitude in the restaurant scene.
Whether Amy bought it or Vicky botched the denial is another story.
FUCK THE
Part of parenting is listening to your kids and explaining your thought process. They might be right and the explanation can help them understand the world a bit better ..
.. you know, teaching your kids how to make "good" decisions.
You need an answer for the fact that Danny utterly ignores or shoots down every single argument Taylor uses. Right now she's defaulting to saying "I don't wanna!" because that's how she's interpreting Danny's response. (And, let's face it, there's probably some subconscious telepathy going on there.)
Given that Taylor can [censored] fly I find Danny's course of action by not explaining himself well / not trying to convince Taylor to be beyond moronic. If she decides to just say "Daddy won't listen to me so screw him, I'm outta here!" he might never see her again. Teen runaways are a problem in our world. Consider how terrifying it would be for parents in the Worm-verse. Then consider that Taylor can leave the city easily, in the dead of night, and get to another city under her own power .. and why would she stop in the next city over?
Um, go back and re-read the fic. Pay special attention to any interactions Taylor has with the PRT or the Protectorate. They have lied to her, investigated her without much evidence, attempted to manipulate her, given her repeated "hard sell" recruitment pitches, manipulated her father to try and achieve their goals, and then had an "honest meeting" where the Director tried to manipulate her without lying.
Now consider that Taylor, via her Jean Grey Upgrade Package(tm) is both a telepath and a functional empath because of her telepathy. While she might not be consciously aware of it, on some level she has to know that they feel no guilt, no remorse, no negative emotions at all when they pull these manipulations.
If that isn't a recipe for trust issues I don't know what is.
divabot
KILL ALL THE HUMANS
- Location
- London
Everyone else who's actually a character has spotted it, haven't they? It's like the running joke that keeps on giving. There's probably an omake in that, of everyone in BB knowing and all pretending they don't.
chibipoe
May I tell you of the glory that is Catradora?
- Location
- Astoria, Oregon
Lemme see...
GG knows.
Catherine and Minako know.
Armsmaster, Piggot, MM know.
Lisa and Coil know she has powers. Coil, presumably, knows she's Sirin as well.
Amy may know now.
Her dad knows....
Who doesn't know:
A&B, Madison.
Sasha
Not the Leader
- Location
- The Ever After
You forgot Sophia.
chibipoe, you're writing realistic characters who are believable.. even when they are doing things that infuriate the readers. (Heck, as much as Danny's actions drive me crazy I'm defending it as realistic.)
The fact that Victoria is making a mistake is fine. Heck, half the cast have made mistakes by now .. and they're all believable.
The only question you need to ask yourself is "do you want Amy to know at this point in the narrative?"
Sasha
Not the Leader
- Location
- The Ever After
While it's up to Chibi, I can see this being used to (at least partially) defuse the ticking time bomb of jealousy that is Amy.
As a point in her favor I never really got the sense that Piggot was being manipulative over the course of that event. Of course the fact that the particular law that's giving Taylor such a hard time certainly wasn't made by someone interested in giving even heroes freedom of choice, what with their being legalish methods by which a child could become a ward without their parent consent or without their consent. So that seems kinda slimy.
Quite true. However, that depends on intent. Is he trying to do this because he believes it is best for Taylor if she's somebody else's responsibility or because doing so means he doesn't have to accept responsibility for her.
Believing it's best for Taylor because he is incapable is not something I can find faulth with.
Not wanting to accept responsibility I do consider to be wrong. Considering that in this story she tried to tell him about the bullies and he was feeling too sorry for himself to pay attention and that he did not notice anything during the period Emma bullied her despite her change in personality I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. I see it as him not having tried to act as a parent should since his wife died and not wanting the responsibility of having to do so now.
Why wouldn't he try if he cares about her?
And again, why wouldn't he try if he cares about her?
I don't know about whether it is true in Firebird, but in the original story she was a chatterbox before the bullying started. Hang on a moment. (Searches a bit.) Here you go, Interlude 19 shows her as being a chatterbox before Emma started bullying her. I wasn't going to search for her possibly skipping grades, but I'm stupid that way sometimes. Tangle 6.9 has that. So before being bullied she was a chatterbox and did very well at school.
And in Firebird we're told that she tried to tell him. Maybe after a couple of months he would have listened, but he did not listen when she tried.
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