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Firebird, a Worm AU/Xover?

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GiftOfLove said:
. . . from their initial sales pitch. He then printed off a copy of his own later on.

Piggot expressly did not want a resentful ward in her program if she could help it. In fact she tried to pitch an affiliate thing at Taylor instead.

Taylor never thought the PRT was trying to manipulate her Dad that I recall. Could you provide what made you think she did?
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Actually, Armsmaster told her father about her being a parahuman and brought him in to get her to join the Wards and that was the beginning of the troubles between Danny and Taylor. Danny began to question everything she did and pretty nearly demanded that she tell him EVERYTHING she did.

And when he learned she was out again and not telling him, even though it was stated clearly that Glory Girl was with her, he printed off the admissions paperwork and signed her into the Wards without asking her about it and when he got home, Taylor had used her Precog apparently, dropped the lasagna, rushed up to her room, packed her costume and some extra changes of clothes and run away, leaving the garlic bread in the oven to burn and alert to Danny that something is wrong, all before he could even give her the "So, you're a Ward" orientation paperwork.
 
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BerserkerZeroOne said:
Actually, Armsmaster told her father about her being a parahuman and brought him in to get her to join the Wards and that was the beginning of the troubles between Danny and Taylor. Danny began to question everything she did and pretty nearly demanded that she tell him EVERYTHING she did.

And when he learned she was out again and not telling him, even though it was stated clearly that Glory Girl was with her, he printed off the admissions paperwork and signed her into the Wards without asking her about it and when he got home, Taylor had used her Precog apparently, dropped the lasagna, rushed up to her room, packed her costume and some extra changes of clothes and run away, leaving the garlic bread in the oven to burn and alert to Danny that something is wrong, all before he could even give her the "So, you're a Ward" orientation paperwork.
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To be fair she thinks of Colin as part of the Protectorate rather than the PRT. We seldom do that since they are joined at the hip, but in this case is important for both Taylor and the different organizations.
 
Thank you for the chapter Chibipoe. I should have replied last night but when I looked at what I had typed I decided to reply this morning, just so I could at least make a little more sense.

I liked Taylor's interaction with Victoria and I'm glad that the thoughts heard in the last chapter haven't soured their friendship. Although one piece of information that came up during their discussion did make me shake my head.

chibipoe said:
"Fine, be a grouch," Vicky said, taking a deep breath. "The Protectorate and New Wave focused on just relief at first, letting them fight it out. Though the Empire was getting it hard from the Protectorate after busting out their people."

I grimaced at that. "Not a deal, right?"

She made a face. "No one told me about them attacking and breaking them out until recently. Turns out I was spouting rumor when we talked at the hospital. Protectorate was just keeping quiet about it, probably to save face. I won't pretend to know why exactly though."
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I do not like Piggot, but if the above is true... Her sending Miss Militia to meet with Victor/Kaizer/whoever to make a deal for the Empire to stop playing turtle and go on the offensive in exchange for Fenja, Menja and Cricket makes her out to be ruthless and maybe untrustworthy but competent after a realpolitik (if I can call it that) way. (Fenja, Menja and Cricket to be together, in a certain room at a certain time, a room that is easily broken into from the outside and with the guarantee that no PRT officers will be present and no Protectorate members will interfere.)

The Empire being able to break out Fenja, Menja, Cricket and Hookwolf from PRT cells, with three of them probably not being able to walk on their own, either shows the PRT and Protectorate as being less than competent or the Empire as being so much more competent and / or powerful that it would probably have made more sense just to say, "Sorry about this" and let them go anyway.

However, we most likely won't know the truth unless Taylor reads a mind or you show it being discussed by the parties involved in a coming chapter, since this isn't something that Piggot, the PRT and / or Armsmaster would want confirmed.

I also like how Taylor's meeting with the Wards civilian identities also nicely paves the way for future interaction, since she now knows what Clockblocker (as well as some others) thinks of her as well as the fact that Flechette (at least) sees her differently. In fact, she might actually take a peak when she meets some of them again, just to get confirmation. (This of course depends on how her personal code for the use of telepathy develops.)

Lung's "You are now Asian" doesn't feel as if it quite fits. However, if I can speculate, it could be a set up for future chapters, where we learn that Non-Asians are officially actively "discouraged" from settling in certain areas, and him stating that she's Asian is a means of creating a polite fiction that allows her to temporarily stay at the shelter. (In fact, some of what he said seems to hint that to me.)

And I have to admit, Taylor's optimism at the end of the chapter is heartening.
 
chibipoe said:
There's degrees of use.
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Yeah I know. It wasn't a criticism as it's a very legitimate and touchy issue that Taylor is having to deal with. I think you're handling the 'want to/want not to' pretty well.

I can't help but think that she'll eventually get to the point where she's that fed up with everyone that she stops having reservations about it though, except for a handful of people.
 
BF110C4 said:
To be fair she thinks of Colin as part of the Protectorate rather than the PRT. We seldom do that since they are joined at the hip, but in this case is important for both Taylor and the different organizations.
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Actually, since GG told Taylor all about the Unwritten Rules, she most likely sees Armsy in an even darker light because he not only went out of his way to discover her identity, but then came at her through her father, which is completely against the very essence of the Rules to begin with.

1. Do not go looking for a Cape's identity.
a) If you knock a Cape unconscious, don't look under the mask, call for PRT or flee the scene, depending on which side you are on
b) If you discover a Cape's identity, do not use that information against them.
c) If you discover a Cape's identity, you do not tell others who they are, as they could then use it against the Cape in question.
2. If a Cape's identity is used as a means of attacking them, be in the personal life or through their family, the Endbringer Truce comes in to effect until the attacker is dealt with, death or imprisonment is dependent on who the attacker is.

I'm sure there are a lot more, but these are the relevant ones to this story.

So Armsy needs to be imprisoned for his seeking, finding, telling the PRT; who have no right to ask for the identity of any Cape that does not willing tell them, ergo anyone signing up to the Protectorate\Wards; and then use of Taylor's identity, through her father, to further himself within the Protectorate. It's even worse because he'll try to justify it by saying that he was trying to bring an UNDERAGED Parahuman into the Wards where it's a "safer" environment for her to learn to use her abilities in.
 
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Sasha said:
Funny thing is, Ziz would probably be eager to show her the ropes.

The Phoenix Force is even more powerful than I thought if it can make references to DC.

Lung is so badass that he inspires memes.

ABB!Taylor confirmed.

Good chapter, if not my favorite, @chibipoe. It was filler, but it was filler that had to be gotten out of the way so that the story could move forward.

The scene with "Mr. Nakamura" laid it on a bit thick for my taste, as did the stuff the Wards talked about, but they didn't bother me overmuch. The overall pacing continues to be rather slow, but I'm hoping it will pick up soon.

As always, I look forward to more. :)

Amusing as this Lung is, I think that title goes to Protective!Neighbor!Lung from Go Gently, though this is shaping up to be a possible contender. :p
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Agreed, it took a long time before I started making the connection in Go Gently, here it was more amusing but also much more obvious. I've already labelled this guy as Lung, Go Gently made me think of him as the neighbour before the ABB dragon-man.

Not to say this isn't good though, they're just different approaches to the same character.
 
BerserkerZeroOne said:
Actually, since GG told Taylor all about the Unwritten Rules, she most likely sees Armsy in an even darker light because he not only went out of his way to discover her identity, but then came at her through her father, which is completely against the very essence of the Rules to begin with.

1. Do not go looking for a Cape's identity.
a) If you knock a Cape unconscious, don't look under the mask, call for PRT or flee the scene, depending on which side you are on
b) If you discover a Cape's identity, do not use that information against them.
c) If you discover a Cape's identity, you do not tell others who they are, as they could then use it against the Cape in question.
2. If a Cape's identity is used as a means of attacking them, be in the personal life or through their family, the Endbringer Truce comes in to effect until the attacker is dealt with, death or imprisonment is dependent on who the attacker is.
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AFAICT, 2 is not correct.
 
Yeah, the thing to bear in mind... those unwritten rules... a lot of what we get about them is from Lisa, who is actively playing Taylor(good intentions or not, she's still feeding her a load of bs). Those rules are given as much weight as you have power to back them up with. Like. Child Services got PRT/Prot reinforcement to take Aster and presumably Theo, and then Tagg disregarded them against Taylor. Those rules are, basically bullshit. The only thing given real weight is the Endbringer truce.
 
chibipoe said:
Yeah, the thing to bear in mind... those unwritten rules... a lot of what we get about them is from Lisa, who is actively playing Taylor(good intentions or not, she's still feeding her a load of bs). Those rules are given as much weight as you have power to back them up with. Like. Child Services got PRT/Prot reinforcement to take Aster and presumably Theo, and then Tagg disregarded them against Taylor. Those rules are, basically bullshit. The only thing given real weight is the Endbringer truce.
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Personally I see it as they have weight, but if you seriously fuck up then people generally agree to "let it slide" if the rules are bent against you.

If you royally fuck up then they don't apply as you risk screwing over everyone else.

So it's more like "don't rock the boat, but if you do expect to get fucked up".

As such to quote jack Sparrow (back when he was not being milked by Disney for all he is worth) "There more like Guide Lines."

So long as you obey the spirit of them most of the time, don't fuck things up to badly, and most importantly succeed without screwing over a lot of people, everyone generally agrees it's fair but in turn would be more willing to go to "extremes" when dealing with you.
 
Franklymydear said:
None of it's correct, technically. They only work if you're big enough to make them work for you like, say, the PRT.

Oh, look who goes and ignores them...
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True, but if they're seen to blatantly ignore them things will likely start to get difficult for the PRT/Protectorate.

In this story specifically, consider what would happen if it became generally known that a Protectorate leader spied on somebody that he believed might be a cape so that he could confirm it and then tried to pressure her into joining the Wards, up to and including outing her to the PRT and to her father. And after doing that he didn't get punished severely for it, leading people to believe this type of thing is condoned and / or routine.

I can easily see independent heroes (who aren't New Wave) and rogues stop interacting with the PRT and Protectorate members, because they don't trust them anymore. Consider a pair of heroes like Hanabi and Rockshow. They've just taken out Boneyard (or maybe even Trainwreck, with some luck) and they're waiting for the Police. (They called the Police because they don't trust the PRT/Protectorate to not try and identify them, out them to their parents and ruin their lives.) They're told that the PRT/Protectorate will take over the pickup (since it's a parahuman criminal) and will be there shortly. What do they do. They leave Boneyard (or maybe Trainwreck) and get away before the PRT/Protectorate gets there. Consider a possible rogue with Skitter's powers. He wanted to offer inexpensive poison free insect extermination services, but believes that if he does the PRT/Protectorate will try to (successfully) find out his identity, try to pressure him into joining the Wards and out him to his parents (who he doesn't trust).

So they have to appear to follow the unwritten rules and punish any of their members who are caught breaking them, at least if it becomes public knowledge or if the victim will make it public knowledge (and can't be silenced) unless their member is punished. Public Relations.
 
chibipoe said:
Yeah, the thing to bear in mind... those unwritten rules... a lot of what we get about them is from Lisa, who is actively playing Taylor(good intentions or not, she's still feeding her a load of bs). Those rules are given as much weight as you have power to back them up with. Like. Child Services got PRT/Prot reinforcement to take Aster and presumably Theo, and then Tagg disregarded them against Taylor. Those rules are, basically bullshit. The only thing given real weight is the Endbringer truce.
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While this is true the problem is that the unwritten rules are how Wildbow justified all the comic book tropes existing in Worm. Without them (and if there isn't any enforcement of the rules they don't exist) the setting makes no sense.
 
chibipoe said:
Yeah, the thing to bear in mind... those unwritten rules... a lot of what we get about them is from Lisa, who is actively playing Taylor(good intentions or not, she's still feeding her a load of bs). Those rules are given as much weight as you have power to back them up with. Like. Child Services got PRT/Prot reinforcement to take Aster and presumably Theo, and then Tagg disregarded them against Taylor. Those rules are, basically bullshit. The only thing given real weight is the Endbringer truce.
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When Lisa was talking about the rules she did mention that they only fully apply to minor harmless villains like Uber+Leet and the Undersiders had been up to that point. She explicitly said that it doesn't really apply to the villains that don't take it seriously, like E88. By the time the PRT started fucking with the Undersiders in a rule violating manner they had become major players that hold territory and fuck with the Protectorate directly and had long ago fallen outside of the purview of Lisa's speech.

Another factor is that the rules are unwritten and like all unwritten rules only apply in the sense that breaking them hurts you reputation and make people less likely to play nice with you. By the time the PRT was willing to truly fuck with the Undersiders they were either the sole non-PRT power left in BB or they had already pissed off all the other powers enough that they won't care.

When you break an unwritten rule it isn't like committing a crime that has a punishment it is being a dick, and there isn't much danger in being a dick to people that everyone hates or when there is no one who cares.
 
The URs are an unofficial retaliation block. Their job is to help keep the escalation down.
Villains don't unmask heroes because the Heroes will descend from on high to smite.
Villains don't unmask villains because Revenge Rampage.
Heroes don't unmask minor villains because Revenge Rampage.
Heroes don't unmask themselves because the BBB did that and look what happened to them.
When the Law discovers a villain's identity they jump on it because, as the Law, they have to. See the Empire Outing. And it goes about as well as expected because Revenge Rampage. In some cases the villain in question has enough power that the Law won't tempt fate though, but those are usually S class threats.
Likewise villains don't out and attack heroes much because Heroes Smite. New Wave is free game though, they outed themselves. Though Heroes will still use it as an excuse to Smite.
These are all very situational guidelines though. It is pure Fanon that everybody will gang up on Coil for outing the Empire. Every party had their own interests in that clusterfuck.
The only time there is unanimous retaliation is when under a Truce (Endbringer or otherwise) or when somebody violates Neutral Ground etiquette.
 
chibipoe said:
The only thing given real weight is the Endbringer truce.
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Hell, there's an argument to be made against that as well, considering Armsmaster's canon actions.

But you bringing it up does make me think about how rapidly everyones actions in regards to how forceful they act towards Taylor are going to change once she has to deal with an Endbringer.

... or, alternatively, they'll continue shooting themselves in the foot and up the pressure.

Still, Danny realizing that he lost his daughter by trying to protect her without her permission but she can solo Endbringers would be an interesting and depressing scene.
 
Franklymydear said:
Still, Danny realizing that he lost his daughter by trying to protect her without her permission but she can solo Endbringers would be an interesting and depressing scene.
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But also potentially hilarious.

Taylor: "What the hell! I just bought that! And you ruined it! You and your stupid sea water! Why can't I have even one nice outfit!"

[Kaboom]

Taylor: "Hello, Vicky?"

Victoria: "Taylor, did you just solo Leviathan on national television?"

Taylor: "There were cameras?"

Victoria: "Taylor..."

Taylor: "Anyway, I'm soaked. Can we go shopping tomorrow?"
 
jerkface said:
But also potentially hilarious.

Taylor: "What the hell! I just bought that! And you ruined it! You and your stupid sea water! Why can't I have even one nice outfit!"

[Kaboom]

Taylor: "Hello, Vicky?"

Victoria: "Taylor, did you just solo Leviathan on national television?"

Taylor: "There were cameras?"

Victoria: "Taylor..."

Taylor: "Anyway, I'm soaked. Can we go shopping tomorrow?"
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Alexandria looked at the... people assembled before her.

"So, let me get this straight. You outed a cape..."

"Yup."

"She now hates us."

"Yup."

"The wards told her to her face that they hate her."

"Yup."

"She's now homeless, hates us, and apparently her power is 'I can turn into the next endbringer but only use my endbringer powers when pissed off'. Oh also, the girls that spent 2 years MAKING the forth endbringer are now heroes. You told her this? To her face?"

"Seems so."

"And your brilliant plan to make her join the PRT is...basically, annoy her more and then threaten her with legal action?"

"Yeah, not sure why that didn't work. Maybe we should try an even more antagonistic stance? Threaten to give her father to the slaughter house 9 maybe?"

"Clockblocker. Shut up. Piggot, what the hell is wrong with you."
 
Dave said:
Alexandria looked at the... people assembled before her.

"So, let me get this straight. You outed a cape..."

"Yup."

"She now hates us."

"Yup."

"The wards told her to her face that they hate her."

"Yup."

"She's now homeless, hates us, and apparently her power is 'I can turn into the next endbringer but only use my endbringer powers when pissed off'. Oh also, the girls that spent 2 years MAKING the forth endbringer are now heroes. You told her this? To her face?"

"Seems so."

"And your brilliant plan to make her join the PRT is...basically, annoy her more and then threaten her with legal action?"

"Yeah, not sure why that didn't work. Maybe we should try an even more antagonistic stance? Threaten to give her father to the slaughter house 9 maybe?"

"Clockblocker. Shut up. Piggot, what the hell is wrong with you."
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Piggot: Wasn't me. *Points to Armsmaster, a crater with a sign saying "Coil," and Danny*
 
BerserkerZeroOne said:
It's not that the meetings have gone bad or been hostile, Taylor just kept them at arms length and barely interacted beyond what was needed to give them a situation report and then leaving.

It most likely seemed like it was hostility towards them, but only Armsmaster and Miss Militia get that treatment... well hostility or flat out ignored if someone else is there that she can be distant to.
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*Nods* I've re-read the chapters and edited my previous post. Effectively, the PRT handled their interactions with her so FUCKING badly that it's a wonder she didn't go straight villain. Anyone she associated with the PRT after that point was going to get the cold shoulder. It does appear that she's at least on 'acquaintance' terms with Assault and Battery, both of whom have been making an active effort to avoid hot-button topics with her. Let's hope she continues with her new resolution and starts mending some fences. When she goes full Phoenix, she's going to need them; the Phoenix is a Scion-level threat, forget about the Endbringers, and the people in charge are going to be nervous enough as it is when they figure this out.
 
chibipoe said:
You might be on to something there.
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I'm liking this story but you've already tread this ground in Acceleration. Heck, you not only tread on it you steamrolled it flat and paved over it. I know you get a little testy about accusations this is a rehash of Acceleration but you've been down this road of 'Taylor trusts no one' as a major plot point (Yes I know she has Glory Girl, but that's the only person she trusts at this point; Catherine and Minakoare at the 'trust but verify' stage). Try something different this time, okay? Jean wasn't this cut off from everyone.
 
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