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Firebird, a Worm AU/Xover?

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Personally I think that we have all forgotten something. Cricket was coming at her with what appeared to Taylor at least the intent to kill. That throws everything out the window, allowing everything she did to be considered legal at least in the eyes of the jury.

So no blackmail for the PRT then if that's how she explains it to them.
 
Smugraptor said:
Personally I think that we have all forgotten something. Cricket was coming at her with what appeared to Taylor at least the intent to kill. That throws everything out the window, allowing everything she did to be considered legal at least in the eyes of the jury.

So no blackmail for the PRT then if that's how she explains it to them.
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Pretty much would agree with you. But apparently since Taylor is a ward she has to put the kids gloves on for people trying to kill her.
 
....so while I think Taylor is in the right to beat up Nazis I think she needs a super giru to keep for going to far....Spider man has an ok track record....and wouldn't be to chafing on Taylor ....I can't think of a worm 'hero' that would do it well though so fuck all the ducks.
 
lhklan said:
Using force to make her join the Ward is a BAD idea. They don't have full knowledge of her powers, they suspect she's not stable and she just publicaly stop a jailbreak by the E88 AND apprehend three other E88 capes, one of them Hookwolf. PR backlash would be bad enough but makin her stressed/angry enough to go " I AM
PHOENIX!!!!!" mode is even worse
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I am WAITING for that classic line. Every single pair of Thinker pants is going to turn brown when that line is uttered. HeheeheeheeHAAHAAHAAA the smell of fear and feces It will be GLORIOUS!

And Contessa will be going, "Not As PLANNED fuckfuckfuck." Because NO ONE plans for the Phoenix force. NO ONE.
 
I actually hope Coil succeeds in capturing Taylor. Because he will drop his "safe" timeline, the one where he didn't try and capture her.

You can probably guess where I'm going with this.
 
Wolfman217 said:
Well that's becuase Lisa is a giant smug Bitch, someone who's not actually that smart but becasue she's a thinker she thinks she must be the smartest person eva! She just so totally arrogant and smug, if I ever met someone that annoyingly smug I'd punch them in the face, I honestly don't get why people like Lisa.
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Uh no she IS pretty freaking smart given that around the start of canon her limit that she can use her powers before she gets crippling migraines had increased to a "whopping" 2 hours a week so no she actually doesn't use her powers to fake being smart she really is that good at cold reading and other stuff and just uses her powers in short bursts to supplement that. The whole "Lisa is totally stoopid cause she's a smug Thinker bitch" is just bad fanon/bashing.
 
lhklan said:
If the PF is motivated enough I think it may mess with what timeline Coil dropped.
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AFAIK, the Phoenix Force can fold time and space, so dealing with Coil's split timelines should be ez mode.

Well, that is, if the host has mastered the powers of PF of course.

1986ctcel said:
The whole "Lisa is totally stoopid cause she's a smug Thinker bitch" is just bad fanon/bashing.
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While Lisa was already fairly smart and intuitive before her trigger, it's her powers that make her a genius when it comes to reading people.
Besides, all Thinkers are smug as fuck :V
 
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Hachichiyyin said:
This is why revenge is a dish best served cold. If you want to heap retribution on someone, make sure it can't be traced back to you.

Taylor could have used her powers to subtly maim Cricket.
Smashing her face in was... a bit too obvious, whether she deserved it or not.

ps: lol, just saw your pseudo & avatar. Your post fits perfectly.
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If she was thinking staight enough at that point to enact that plan, she would not have done as much violence as she did.
Proof:
A shuddering breath escaped me as I surveyed the area, noting how eerily quiet it was. There were sirens in the distance… but why hadn't anyone arrived yet?

I suspect the whole fight was at most 2 minutes, she was operating on reflex most of the time.
She had enough presence of mind to plan tactics, but not strategy.

Just as she started to think normally she made a mistake Cricket happened and she whent into combat mode again.
 
Honestly surprised Lisa didn't lead with "He's got a gun to my head, I need your help." Although there's a fair chance that team vigilante showing up in its entirety might've put the kibosh on that. As far as excessive force goes, yeah, it was. You can justify force that was reasonable and necessary to effect compliance (that's a quote any cop is going to be able to rattle off), but beating up on Cricket is Rodney King territory. However, I'm interested to see exactly how Assault and Battery plan to stop her, seeing as how she can literally just fly off and they're shit out of luck.

Well that's becuase Lisa is a giant smug Bitch, someone who's not actually that smart but becasue she's a thinker she thinks she must be the smartest person eva! She just so totally arrogant and smug, if I ever met someone that annoyingly smug I'd punch them in the face, I honestly don't get why people like Lisa.
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Aargh. I'm only going to do this once because I'm not going to derail, but did you even read Worm, or are you going off a bunch of fics where people who already don't like her paint her in the shittiest light possible? You do realize her only edge in a world with an essentially non-combatant power is to get in someone's head and force them to make mistakes, right? So yeah, she tries her level best to push buttons and make people stupid angry, so her team can take them out when they're not thinking clearly.

There's a lot of people that judge Lisa based on how she acts to her enemies, most of which could effortlessly kill her in a straight fight, most of which would have severely maimed her in a straight fight, and ignore every instance of kindness to her teammates, i.e. the people she actually cares about, or they try to paint it as Xanatos-level manipulation. It's fucking annoying, is what it is.
 
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TechnoMage said:
If she was thinking staight enough at that point to enact that plan, she would not have done as much violence as she did.
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Yes, I know. Taylor was running on emotions like anger, and therefore her planning abilities took a nosedive.

TechnoMage said:
She had enough presence of mind to plan tactics, but not strategy.
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Indeed. And that's exactly what has been creating more conflict in this story since the beginning.
Taylor jumps into a situation without thinking it through, makes snap decisons, and then takes shit for it. Which fuels her anger and resentment even more, vicious circle etc etc...

Proper planning prevents piss poor performance and all that. Though she did perform well in the fight itself. It's the aftermath that might be more complicated for her, unfortunately.
 
...I just find it amusing that Purity became one of the more reasonable adults by telling Taylor that she was taking it too far.

However much of a Nazi she is, she didn't actually do anything to press Taylor's rage buttons and pointed out her going apeshit on Cricket in a way that didn't exacerbate the situation.

I just find this so ironically amusing.
 
BF110C4 said:
Frankly I'm dreading the E88 response.
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This, several pages of people bitching about PRT this and PRT that and barely anything about Kaiser's response to someone trashing four of his capes publicly. Very publicly.

Aside from force of arms there isn't much PRT can do, and even that runs counter to their intentions. Before Taylor becomes more of a nuisance that the potential PR fallout they're unlikely to do anything drastic.

The Empire on the other hand though... yea, they will have to do something VERY drastic to save face from this incident.
 
Zweibach said:
This, several pages of people bitching about PRT this and PRT that and barely anything about Kaiser's response to someone trashing four of his capes publicly. Very publicly.

Aside from force of arms there isn't much PRT can do, and even that runs counter to their intentions. Before Taylor becomes more of a nuisance that the potential PR fallout they're unlikely to do anything drastic.

The Empire on the other hand though... yea, they will have to do something VERY drastic to save face from this incident.
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...Oh god she's going to be hunted from three sides now.

Coil and the Travelers are going after her, Kaiser's gonna put out all the stops to put down this cocky upstart that keeps beating his capes, and the PRT is probably going to start going for the strong arm tactics since she's starting to escalate.

They'll probably end up breakin her restraint. The Phoenix will wake soon I'm afraid...
 
Sixtyforty said:
There's a lot of people that judge Lisa based on how she acts to her enemies, most of which could effortlessly kill her in a straight fight, most of which would have severely maimed her in a straight fight, and ignore every instance of kindness to her teammates, i.e. the people she actually cares about, or they try to paint it as Xanatos-level manipulation. It's fucking annoying, is what it is.
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I think we have different ideas of what constitutes a friend. I don't consider manipulating someone into believing the Cape scene is a big game of Cops and Robbers and putting her in constant danger all to save her own skin is being a good friend. But that's just me.

Also I have never ever read or heard of a fic where they paint Lisa in a bad light. That's actually part of what annoys me so much, that everyone seems to like her and think she's amazing, and hand-wave away everything she does as her doing it solely to help people because she's such a selfless amazing person. Even her attempt to help Taylor's suicidal tendencies is mainly so she can have an ally against Coil and her own guilt over her brother.

I also don't consider dragging up all of Amy's deep dark personal secrets and trying to drive her insane as an attempt to defeat a stronger enemy considering the problem at the time was Victoria, and all she had to do was shoot her to drop her shield. So she could have just done that straight away, but she decided to say all that to Amy because she couldn't help herself, and it's not like taunting them helped her work out the weakness in her shield seeing as Victoria didn't even know about it herself.

I don't like Lisa, in fact the only people I hate more in Worm are Cauldron, specifically Alexandria and Contessa.
No matter what you say you wont change my mind, deal with it. Like you said lets not derail the thread.

Assault and Battery are screwed, no way can they stop Tay, if they try they're just gonna get their butts kicked.
I doubt they will though, Assault would realise it wont end well.

Hachichiyyin said:
Yes, I know. Taylor was running on emotions like anger, and therefore her planning abilities took a nosedive.
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I look at it more like she's trying to plan but then shit happens that throws it out the window. So much crap is happening its messing her up.

BF110C4 said:
Frankly I'm dreading the E88 response
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As for the E88 response, shit's gonna get real, especially considering Lung and Bakuda's surprises are going to off soon, what d'you wanna bet that they go off at the same time, and it starts off a proper gang war. All with Taylor in the middle, because being Taylor is Suffering.
 
Hate speech
Yeah, no, I'm with Taylor regarding "Gosh, the super evil Nazi floaty-cannon told me to stop beating her super-evil Nazi murderfriends! How about I not listen to this bitch?"

I mean... really. They're Nazis. There's literally nothing you can do to a Nazi that they haven't already cheerfully and happily volunteered for by virtue of voluntarily deciding to become Nazis.

The only reason to not torture Nazis is because torture is itself wrong, not because torturing Nazis is wrong.

Beating a Nazi unconscious? Big fuggin' deal. Okay, Cricket picked up extra injuries. She also tried to start shit when she should've known better. Maybe I'm not seeing that scene the same way, but to me it read like... Cricket starts shit, and gets bodyslammed until she stops moving.

Were there better options? Sure, Taylor could've mudwrassled the Nazi on pay per view. Or telekinetically compressed Cricket's arteries to cause her to pass out. But, fuckit.... Nazi. Simple, direct, fuck-consequences, Nazis do not ever get sympathy. The easy way is appropriate and acceptable.

It's one of those things- Nazis are people who willing sign away their humanity in the pursuit of an inhumane ideal. The reason to have a care when dispatching them is to prevent developing habits that would eventually harm people who matter- you know, actual people, who haven't decided that they're deathcamp fanbois.

I'm probably going in circles there, but basically, tl;dr, it's only a worry because Taylor didn't notice the degree of overkill, not that Cricket's an inappropriate target for death (accidental or not).
 
kokuenDG said:
...I just find it amusing that Purity became one of the more reasonable adults by telling Taylor that she was taking it too far.

However much of a Nazi she is, she didn't actually do anything to press Taylor's rage buttons and pointed out her going apeshit on Cricket in a way that didn't exacerbate the situation.

I just find this so ironically amusing.
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Well technically she interrupted Taylor with an attack while she was fighting a Nazi criminal, when she herself is a Nazi criminal. The simple fact she isn't serving time/doing probationary service in another city for the Protectorate/in the Birdcage/executed could be seen as a legitimate push of Taylor's "rage button". I mean "Oh I am a Nazi criminal who is trying to turn over another leaf, oh I will interfere with someone fighting my former comrades this is totally an idea that won't result in me being attacked by heroes/people continuing to think I'm a psychotic murderous criminal" isn't exactly a smart decision at the very least. She got lucky by having Assault roll up to sort of vouch for her, but if it was Victoria who showed up I could see Taylor and Vicky fighting her and Purity would be the one in the wrong.


Zweibach said:
This, several pages of people bitching about PRT this and PRT that and barely anything about Kaiser's response to someone trashing four of his capes publicly. Very publicly.

Aside from force of arms there isn't much PRT can do, and even that runs counter to their intentions. Before Taylor becomes more of a nuisance that the potential PR fallout they're unlikely to do anything drastic.

The Empire on the other hand though... yea, they will have to do something VERY drastic to save face from this incident.
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Yeah it's going to be a colossal clusterfuck. And it will be awesome. Seriously why is anyone dreading this? It's going to be great.
 
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Jim Starluck said:
I'm not even really counting the brutality against Cricket. I'm looking more at the collateral from taking down Fenja, Menja and Hookwolf. She was getting tunnel vision on winning the fight and not letting them escape above all else, which is dangerous with how strong she's getting.
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The problem is that they are going to go for the stick like they did for SS to try and get her to fall in line.

I know that all this is probably based on Coil shenanigans and general PRT stupidity but they should have enough braincells to realize Bullying a Dragon is not a smart thing to do. Taylor already doesn't really like them and has shown she has massive issues with people pushing her into things.

You'd think that they'd put two and two together and realize that their standard game plan will backfire massively.
 
Zweibach said:
This, several pages of people bitching about PRT this and PRT that and barely anything about Kaiser's response to someone trashing four of his capes publicly. Very publicly.

Aside from force of arms there isn't much PRT can do, and even that runs counter to their intentions. Before Taylor becomes more of a nuisance that the potential PR fallout they're unlikely to do anything drastic.

The Empire on the other hand though... yea, they will have to do something VERY drastic to save face from this incident.
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And since they don't know enough about Taylor, her patrol habits or her powers they can't plan an effective ambush against her without the risk of even more loses (and that's form their point of view, us who know about her precog can see how hazardous setting a trap is), they can't escalate against the PRT since then they would deal with twice the problems so that leaves only other villains and independent heroes.
 
armorfiend said:
Yeah, no, I'm with Taylor regarding "Gosh, the super evil Nazi floaty-cannon told me to stop beating her super-evil Nazi murderfriends! How about I not listen to this bitch?"

I mean... really. They're Nazis. There's literally nothing you can do to a Nazi that they haven't already cheerfully and happily volunteered for by virtue of voluntarily deciding to become Nazis.

The only reason to not torture Nazis is because torture is itself wrong, not because torturing Nazis is wrong.

Beating a Nazi unconscious? Big fuggin' deal. Okay, Cricket picked up extra injuries. She also tried to start shit when she should've known better. Maybe I'm not seeing that scene the same way, but to me it read like... Cricket starts shit, and gets bodyslammed until she stops moving.

Were there better options? Sure, Taylor could've mudwrassled the Nazi on pay per view. Or telekinetically compressed Cricket's arteries to cause her to pass out. But, fuckit.... Nazi. Simple, direct, fuck-consequences, Nazis do not ever get sympathy. The easy way is appropriate and acceptable.

It's one of those things- Nazis are people who willing sign away their humanity in the pursuit of an inhumane ideal. The reason to have a care when dispatching them is to prevent developing habits that would eventually harm people who matter- you know, actual people, who haven't decided that they're deathcamp fanbois.

I'm probably going in circles there, but basically, tl;dr, it's only a worry because Taylor didn't notice the degree of overkill, not that Cricket's an inappropriate target for death (accidental or not).
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So because they're Nazis, normal rules don't apply? That's new.

You can definitely justify the beatdown as necessary as clearly the E88 capes tried to kill -or at the very least seriously injure- Taylor, but rationalizing wrecking people just because they're Nazis is a pretty shaky argument.
 
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