- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Bullshit, if you call "beat the shit out of LEOs that just want me to come with them for questioning" the actions of a "law-abiding parahuman" then the E88 are saints who feed the homeless.
Firebird, a Worm AU/Xover?
- Thread starter chibipoe
- Start date
Bullshit, if you call "beat the shit out of LEOs that just want me to come with them for questioning" the actions of a "law-abiding parahuman" then the E88 are saints who feed the homeless.
OverReactionGuy
Verified Sanity
Taylor in canon. Technically she was pushed into villainy because of Armsmaster being a dick and not telling her how stupid of an idea it was to try her idiotic infiltration plan was calmly in a way that it would have stuck inside her head.
Instead of Taylor trying to do it anyway to prove him wrong.
Law abiding Leo's whose bosses stalked an underage teenage girl, basically destroyed her relationship with her father and have been needlessly poking her for weeks.
- Location
- West Michigan
Accord obviously.
Grue from the WOG. (this is part of why I dismiss that WOG, because obvious or not I want the PRT to be as competent at their official purpose - national law enforcement - as the FBI, Marshals, DEA, badassfictional!Interpol, late-Stargate NID, and SHIELD. I'm just continually disappointed when they aren't.)
Taylor sort of counts, but not in the same way because Sophia created her in canon, not the system. Also what ORG said about Armsmaster. (In Firebird, it's definitely the system's fault.)
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VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
She robbed a bank, associated with known criminals, attacked innocent people at a party, took hostages several times, and so on. Taylor may have thought she wasn't a criminal but she was.
Plus Armsmaster not being nice to someone is not the same as "the PRT is good at pushing law abiding citizens into villainy"
I'll just say I'm not sure Piggot has a lot of leverage to use on Taylor. Her best move is to attempt to use logic or emotional based arguments, likewise she did before almost getting Taylor to join as an associated member.
Piggot trotting out evidence that her organization was manipulated, after Taylor is suspecting Lisa's boss might actually work. Taylor doesn't like being anyone's tool and she might be willing to tolerate Piggot in the short term.
As it is none of the local Protectorate are really in her weight class. Battery is decentish enough for a strike when she's charged up & Clockblocker caught neutralize her wish timestop but her power over fire and telekensis simply puts her too high up there. Likewise with her flight.
She's possible vulnerable to a well oiled team attack as Fenja & Menja just demonstrated, but her precog gives her a very nice edge.
Nothing less than a well coordinated attack in my mind seems likely to work.
Interested in what Lisa thinks of the fight Taylor just had.
Piggot trotting out evidence that her organization was manipulated, after Taylor is suspecting Lisa's boss might actually work. Taylor doesn't like being anyone's tool and she might be willing to tolerate Piggot in the short term.
As it is none of the local Protectorate are really in her weight class. Battery is decentish enough for a strike when she's charged up & Clockblocker caught neutralize her wish timestop but her power over fire and telekensis simply puts her too high up there. Likewise with her flight.
She's possible vulnerable to a well oiled team attack as Fenja & Menja just demonstrated, but her precog gives her a very nice edge.
Nothing less than a well coordinated attack in my mind seems likely to work.
Interested in what Lisa thinks of the fight Taylor just had.
OverReactionGuy
Verified Sanity
You know, I was talking about before she did all of those things right?
And yes it is, especially if they have an idiotic plan like Taylor did in canon.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Doesn't matter, if you pull stuff like that you'll end up being labeled as a criminal even if you have a good reason (though it might count as a mitigating factor but it certainly won't excuse it)
No he wasn't dummy, Grue became a villain because he was afraid that he might be forced to be separated from Aisha due to having to move to a new city and not having the freedom to drop out at any time because of learning the other heroes civilian IDs which is why he CHOSE not to sign up even though it would have helped him a lot the PRT didn't push him into villainy his own desire for freedom did.
I dunno. Taylor is rather pissed, but would she really initiate violence given that she has the ability to just fly away and basically ignore anyone sent to bring her in.
I could see it happening if PRT are the ones who start the fight by say ambushing/attacking her or somesuch, but I would think Piggot would be smart enough to realise that this would be something guaranteed to drive Taylor into becoming yet another villain. And that would be pretty bad for the city considering how strong Taylor has just shown herself to be.
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
Accord is also insane. He kills people for spilling drinks. How long could he work within the law before it became too much?
Fucking what? Grue chose criminality because it was more flexible than hero work. The PRT would have helped him according to WOG, but they also might have told him that he had obligations outside of Aisha and he wouldn't accept that. They did jack shit, he didn't even talk to them, he considered his options and chose to go into crime.
No it's not. It's one guy being a bit of a jerk to a teenager that thinks she knows better. Armsmaster isn't the PRT. He isn't the standard. Any other hero wouldn't have reacted the way he did.
I mean you guys aren't even making a logical argument. You start with "The PRT is good at pushing people into villainy", but when pushed you have at best two cases where two individuals were less than generously handled and nothing else, and with Taylor you have less than that because Armsmaster tells her to give up her plan to go undercover because she'll get hurt and she ignores him and the next day commits several felonies. She wasn't pushed into it. She was being petty and acting like a moron.
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That's because it's true. For both nazis and telephone sales people.
OverReactionGuy
Verified Sanity
No, any other hero would of put it out gently in a way to guide Taylor about not doing the idiotic plan.
Armsmaster yelling at her and calling her out on it did not help.
And only made her want to do it more.
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
So he didn't push her into villainy. She chose it because she was petty. That's not the PRT's fault. At best you can argue that it's Armsmaster and even that would be a stretch.
OverReactionGuy
Verified Sanity
-sighs-
No that is not at all what I was trying to say. But I am done.
This topic isn't important.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Hey she was the one who left him a prisoner who nearly died and caused him to get temproraily arrested after he thought he did her a solid by making sure no one knew she took down Lung so of course he's not going to be reasonable.
chibipoe
May I tell you of the glory that is Catradora?
- Location
- Astoria, Oregon
Hi, everyone! This is the discussion thread for Firebird. All discussion for and directly relevant to Firebird should be here. What shouldn't be here is discussion of canon actions and who was right/wrong on the Armsmaster/Taylor dispute. That should be relocated elsewhere. As in someplace that isn't here. 
Sasha
Not the Leader
- Location
- The Ever After
Wait, is this in regards to the events of next chapter? Or is it about when said chapter will be out?
For the chapter itself, I loved it, but don't have too much to say that would provide meaningful material for discussion. I will say that I'm glad the status quo is changing from what it has been the last few chapters. Not much had really changed about Taylor's standing with the PRT/Protectorate, so it's nice to see that there will be development on that front.
chibipoe
May I tell you of the glory that is Catradora?
- Location
- Astoria, Oregon
The next chapter. It's close to/more than half done already. Just heading into the major clusterfuck parts after two scenes that were a calm.
So, um... Taylor was able to heat up her fries, meaning that her fine control over fire is improving. Since heroism isn't working out for her and she won't go villain, maybe she can be a rogue? She, Catherine and Minako* could do shows on the Boardwalk, and Taylor could be the headliner. She'll turn sixteen in a few months, so after that, she can get her GED and stuff. It placates everyone: Taylor isn't being a threat to anyone, she isn't getting herself hurt and she's strong enough to protect herself and her friends from anyone who'd try to hurt her.
* Their powers are pretty flashy without being that dangerous. And Minako got hurt a few chapters back, so indy-heroism isn't that viable in light of that.
* Their powers are pretty flashy without being that dangerous. And Minako got hurt a few chapters back, so indy-heroism isn't that viable in light of that.
Cool, can't wait to see it. *hint, hint*
Which only happened because Armsmaster took an already incapacitated and seriously wounded villain and gave him experimental drugs that shut down his healing abilities without checking to find out if it was safe to do so. He was fine when Taylor gave him to Armsmaster, and he changed that due to lack of attention to detail, or interest in anything other than gloryhounding.
Armsmaster is delusional if he actually believed that lie. Lung knows exactly who took him down so the only people who would fall for him taking credit are the people who rely on the protectorate files to know what happened. In other words the media, protectorate and other heroes. Lung would easily send word as to who to get vengeance on through his lawyer even if he doesn't have PRT spies to send the message.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Hi, everyone! This is the discussion thread for Firebird. All discussion for and directly relevant to Firebird should be here. What shouldn't be here is discussion of canon actions and who was right/wrong on the Armsmaster/Taylor dispute. That should be relocated elsewhere. As in someplace that isn't here.
AHEM *points above*
OverReactionGuy
Verified Sanity
Taylor wants to be a hero though.
Chibi said to take the argument somewhere else.
and Imped...
chibipoe
May I tell you of the glory that is Catradora?
- Location
- Astoria, Oregon
Ask and ye shall receive.
You know, this whole debate puts me in mind of something. The Wards and Protectorate very clearly have police powers, but they also appear to receive little or none of the applicable training to go along with that. Even before you're a day one cop, you're going to sit through at the very minimum two or more hours of a use of force training, where they're going to beat into your head exactly how much force you can and should use based on the subject actions, officer's perception of the situation, and so on. I'm not going to teach the fucking thing, but suffice to say even if they hand you a taser you're going to be trained damned well on when you should be using it. I get that they're using comic version "nonlethal" weapons (which don't exist in real life, by the way), but Shadow Stalker alone was crazy fucking lethal even with needles. But the subject never even comes up, which makes me wonder how the whole thing works out legally. I mean, Taylor right here can claim she felt the headbutt was an attempt to kill her, which if you extrapolate the situation, if she'd been knocked down or out, she'd have died. She's never been legally educated on how much force she can use in that situation, so technically I'd think the PRT would be liable.
Later
"So you prevented the Nazis from escaping?"
"Yes."
"And in the process of doing so you caused significant collateral damage?"
"That was their fault! How else are you supposed to deal with three Brutes."
"And you beat one of them to within an inch of her life?"
"It wasn't that bad! And now she won't be hurting anyone for a long time."
"And you got away with it?"
"I had to lean heavily on my precog for a while, but yes."
*Tackle hug*
"Vicky?"
"I *sniff* I'm just so proud!"
"So you prevented the Nazis from escaping?"
"Yes."
"And in the process of doing so you caused significant collateral damage?"
"That was their fault! How else are you supposed to deal with three Brutes."
"And you beat one of them to within an inch of her life?"
"It wasn't that bad! And now she won't be hurting anyone for a long time."
"And you got away with it?"
"I had to lean heavily on my precog for a while, but yes."
*Tackle hug*
"Vicky?"
"I *sniff* I'm just so proud!"
I don't really like your changes to Avatar. They don't make sense. The Fire Nation attacking made sense symbolically. I mean, you had to make it the Air Empire to make it make any kind of sense. The attitudes of the four nations in the original lined up with the emotions and personalities associated with the four elements.