Firebird, a Worm AU/Xover?

If you are enlisting your daughter in a paramilitary group you better know as much about as humanly possible.
In Danny's favor, the PRT PR machine would ensure that people aren't supposed to know the Wards program is a paramilitary job. And in other cities, that's true or at least mostly true.

The fact that they are even out fighting crime, to me, esepcially with so few redunacies speaks volumes about their mentor.
The issue with this argument is that the mentor involved is probably unable to stop them, what with the lack of powers of his own. Otherwise he can go to the PRT and be in the exact same position as Danny is. It's pretty much lose/lose for parents of parahumans.
 
......I think he turned in the paper work li

The problem with the Taylor didn't try so danny doesn't have to is it assumes a relationship of equals, in with case danny can't do the things he did. Danny wants to both have his position as parent but not the responsibility of being the nigger person, I usually don't think parental guidance is a bad thing if the parents are....well good at being parents and superiors in general, sadly danny is shit atvit as he wants to be not responsible for being the adult but wants and exercises the rights that come with being said adult.
It's definitely implied that he turned in the paperwork here. And I do mostly agree with the second paragraph though before we assign such things to Danny I should note that "he's an adult and parent therefore Taylor doesn't have the right to refuse his decision" is mostly internet people. Danny mostly just seems to be grasping the rope that was handed to him.
Edit: and unfortunate typos yes.
 
If you are enlisting your daughter in a paramilitary group you better know as much about as humanly possible.

The thing is again, if Taylor is still choosing to fight crime on her own how is Danny enlisting her? She's entering the warzone by choice. Danny isn't forcing her to be a superhero. He's forcing her to be a responsible superhero.
 
The issue with this argument is that the mentor involved is probably unable to stop them, what with the lack of powers of his own. Otherwise he can go to the PRT and be in the exact same position as Danny is. It's pretty much lose/lose for parents of parahumans.

True, I'm happy they'v had success up to this point and want them to continue to have it because anything else leads to tragedy.

On a different note, if Taylor chose to do literally anything else with her powers than get involved with the cape scene, heros and villains, Danny would have no reason to sign her up or force her into signing up. given the cultural and societal structure set up by certain people and organization, the chance of this happening are near null. (It probably wouldn't makeep a good story either.)

You have to remember Taylor is choosing to fight crime, endanger her life, and the lives of those around her.

>In before she has the Phoenix force and is in no danger herself.

With all that being said I wish both parties could have come together and sorted our some sort of amicle agreement. Alas this is Worm and conflict is the name of the game.
 
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He's forcing her to be a responsible superhero.
Enlisting with the government =/= responsible. It's more responsible than winging it, but they dont hold an exclusive lock on responsibility.

Fundamentally I agree he has to do SOMETHING. But the two of them are so pig headed that neither will entertain anything perceived as loss.
 
I don't really have a problem with him signing her up for the wards, just the way he went about it.

He made sure to do it in pretty much the worst possible way, taking every opportunity to alienate her to both himself, and the idea of joining the wards. Admittedly, some of that is not his fault, as it was exacerbated by her precog, but he is basically a perfect example of how not to handle a person with the issues that Taylor has, or just in general how a parent should deal with a child who disagrees with them.
 
In Danny's favor, the PRT PR machine would ensure that people aren't supposed to know the Wards program is a paramilitary job. And in other cities, that's true or at least mostly true.

But if he did search for more information instead of thinking the pitch he got was be all end all he would know that. When you go into any army recruitment office or even their websites and take that as the truth you are being naive and dumb. While they don't out right lie. They will only tell good things to get you to sing up.

This goes for most things in life. You don't believe the car salesmen will tell you the whole truth so why you would think a a recruitment officer (Armsmaster) would. As a parent making life changing choices he doesn't get the excuse that he didn't know.
 
True, I'm happy they'v had success up to this point and want them to continue to have it because anything else leads to tragedy.

On a differen, if Taylor chose to do literally anything else with her powers than get involved with the cape scene, heros and villains, Danny would have no reason to sign her up or force her into signing up.

You have to remember Taylor is choosing to fight crime, endanger her life, and the lives of those around her.

In before she has the Phoenix force and is in no danger herself.

all that being said I wish both parties could have come together and sorted our some sort of amicle agreement. Alas this is Worm and conflict is the name of the game.
True but it's not as if seeking out conflict is considered a weird choice in this world. Between cultural influence and inherent conflict tendencies (which originate in shards but which the Phoenix force does seem to have its own copy of) it's the people who don't use their superpowers that way that are weird in these here parts and Taylor doesn't like being weird (on purpose).
 
....You know, while I understand Danny's thought process at the same time I really want a scene where he tries to blame the issues he has with Taylor on somebody else, like Amrsmaster who basically goes "Not my problem."
 
Enlisting with the government =/= responsible. It's more responsible than winging it, but they dont hold an exclusive lock on responsibility.
True and if Taylor bothered to try and talk him over sooner or later he might have agreed. Like if she had had the conversations she kept pre-coging maybe they'd have come to an agreement at this point. The issue with Taylor's pre-cog is that she isn't projecting far enough. Maybe the first go at it doesn't work, but after putting the idea in his head a few days later he'd be more receptive, but only if they had the first conversation.
 
True and if Taylor bothered to try and talk him over sooner or later he might have agreed. Like if she had had the conversations she kept pre-coging maybe they'd have come to an agreement at this point. The issue with Taylor's pre-cog is that she isn't projecting far enough. Maybe the first go at it doesn't work, but after putting the idea in his head a few days later he'd be more receptive, but only if they had the first conversation.
The irony of a Precog being short sighted...
 
The thing is again, if Taylor is still choosing to fight crime on her own how is Danny enlisting her? She's entering the warzone by choice. Danny isn't forcing her to be a superhero. He's forcing her to be a responsible superhero.

Because he is trying to make her give up any chance she has of self determination. He is basically saying that she has to listen and do as the PRT says.

She's not entering a warzone. It more like right now she is the superhero version of the neighborhood watch. Danny is saying that she has to join the cops no matter what she wants. Because they know best.
 
True and if Taylor bothered to try and talk him over sooner or later he might have agreed. Like if she had had the conversations she kept pre-coging maybe they'd have come to an agreement at this point. The issue with Taylor's pre-cog is that she isn't projecting far enough. Maybe the first go at it doesn't work, but after putting the idea in his head a few days later he'd be more receptive, but only if they had the first conversation.

Commenting while I'm distracted by the helicopter that is looking for someone that keeps flying over my house. (man, you don't realize how much vibrations those things cause til you've had it flying over the area at low altitude repeatedly.)

Taylor's issue is that she's looking for the ONE argument, a quick fix, that will solve all her problems. She was on the verge of getting the idea of delaying arguments to whittle him down, but hadn't hit that yet when he took pre-emptive action because she was out running around in a skirmish with druggies.

ETA: On helicopter issue. Think it's gone for now. But I found out why after looking on the police website. Probably hunting for a kidnapper. The kidnappee is safe though.
 
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She's not entering a warzone. It more like right now she is the superhero version of the neighborhood watch.
And I'm sure if she sees Lung she's going to back the hell off because if Taylor Hebert is known for anything it's avoiding fights with big time players.

Danny is saying that she has to join the cops no matter what she wants. Because they know best.
Danny isn't wrong. If the neighborhood watch had a 40% mortality rate and the cops had a 30% mortality rate isn't being a cop safer than not being a cop?
 
The fact that Danny and Taylor have distinctly different priorities probably isn't helping either. Danny's central priority is Taylor being as safe as possible and Taylor's priority just plain isn't that. Not saying Taylor's wrong in this because I don't think she is. People would act very differently if sheer statistical safety was the only or even the main basis for us to do things, though it probably doesn't need to be argued that Danny's main priority doesn't really need defending all that much either even if the resulting actions do.

And that fact is almost certainly hurting the situation by simple virtue of the fact that Taylor's reasons (and let's not pretend she doesn't have them because she pretty clearly does) for not wanting to sign up with the Wards don't really register on the priorities with which Danny is making decisions and vice-versa.
 
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Danny isn't wrong. If the neighborhood watch had a 40% mortality rate and the cops had a 30% mortality rate isn't being a cop safer than not being a cop?
I wouldn't call that the best argument... You could exaggerate and say "If being a slave had a better mortality rate, isn't that safer?" and be correct, but it doesn't change the reason why you don't want to be a slave (and I'm not saying joining the Wards is slavery (though it's kind of like that from Taylor's point of view) it was just an example).
 
He may have and probably would have still done so.

In that case I'm far more willing to write him off as poor parent and accept Taylor's original grievances.

Right now though I see a poor parent finally making the correct decision in regards to their child's welfare. Even his methodology is absolute horse shit.
 
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I think part of the discrepancy comes from the idea of a parent not wanting their kid running around in anything but the best level of protection, given that they're either unwilling (or unable) to prevent said kid from going out on their own merits, and given the situation, Danny would rather have Taylor hate him than be dead, though his thought process is far from ideal.

Now, whether or not Danny would be impressed by 'it's totally cool dad, I've been going out with Glory Girl (and NOT with the rest of New Wave), or these two random capes with no real support network' is up for debate, especially with Annette's death, and Taylor's having pulled away from him.

Honestly, I don't really quite understand Taylor's reluctance to join the wards aside from 'They spied on me after they said they'd leave me alone (which, to be fair, is kind of FUBAR on the PRT's part), plus I'd be chained down with rules n such (which is really, really dumb, but I guess she hasn't really been at risk enough yet to know she should have people watching her back)

Which, if we're taking the Phoenix into play, fine, but Jean was part of a similar team, which on the whole, despite trust issues and such, was able to work rather well with the X-men, even insofar as regarding her death, where she essentially made peace with dying in the first place. Now, the cosmic entity bird may not be all too understanding, but it's felt more like Jean than the Phoenix proper thus far, hence my slight confusion/irritation with Taylor.
 
And I'm sure if she sees Lung she's going to back the hell off because if Taylor Hebert is known for anything it's avoiding fights with big time players.

I willing to bet if she runs into Lung as a ward she would still fight him.


Danny isn't wrong. If the neighborhood watch had a 40% mortality rate and the cops had a 30% mortality rate isn't being a cop safer than not being a cop?

I am not saying that it isn't safer. You asked what the difference was between Taylor choosing to fight crime and Danny enlisting her. I said that the difference was self determination. By making her join the wards Taylor is forced to give up certain freedoms and has to put herself in a chain of command. This takes away her own choice.
 
I wouldn't call that the best argument... You could exaggerate and say "If being a slave had a better mortality rate, isn't that safer?" and be correct, but it doesn't change the reason why you don't want to be a slave (and I'm not saying joining the Wards is slavery (though it's kind of like that from Taylor's point of view) it was just an example).
If you want to be technical about it, being a child under 18 is automatically slavery anyway.

The parent's are responsible for them, always. It's the law.

Until you hit 18 you do not have all the right's of an adult.
 
I wouldn't call that the best argument... You could exaggerate and say "If being a slave had a better mortality rate, isn't that safer?" and be correct, but it doesn't change the reason why you don't want to be a slave
If all that you look at is purely the safer lifestyle then what the job is doesn't matter.

I willing to bet if she runs into Lung as a ward she would still fight him.
I'm willing to bet she'd be ordered not to and if she ignored orders she'd be suspended for a long ass time.

You asked what the difference was between Taylor choosing to fight crime and Danny enlisting her.
No I didn't. I asked if it counts as enlisting her if she plans on fighting the same fights anyway.

By making her join the wards Taylor is forced to give up certain freedoms and has to put herself in a chain of command. This takes away her own choice.
If a child makes choices that the parent feels puts their life at risk the parent can and should stop them.
 
Honestly, I don't really quite understand Taylor's reluctance to join the wards aside from 'They spied on me after they said they'd leave me alone (which, to be fair, is kind of FUBAR on the PRT's part), plus I'd be chained down with rules n such (which is really, really dumb, but I guess she hasn't really been at risk enough yet to know she should have people watching her back)
They interrupted her life after she was locked in her locker, then tell her they'll leave her alone. Then they interrupt her life even more after that. They then place one of their members in her school to observe her, who then turns around and outs her to her father with next to no warning. Then they continue to hound her and make her life hard by dragging her father into the 'do you want to be a Ward' process without her knowledge until he's already filled out half the forms. Then she has a meeting with Piggot and realizes they're still trying to recruit her and there's almost nothing she can do about it (and that then gets backed up, as far as she can tell, by precog).

It's a little more than 'they spied on me after they said they'd leave me alone' at this point. There's also the issue that Taylor knows there's something wrong with the situation, and knows there's a discrepancy in the paperwork, values her own freedom, and has a default lack of trust of authority far outstripping the standard teenage deal.

If you want to be technical about it, being a child under 18 is automatically slavery anyway.
No, as that implies the child in question is property to be bought and sold and used however you see fit. Go ahead and try that with a child, I'm sure everyone will tell you you're doing the right thing.

There's more reasons why being a child is not the same as slavery, but this really isn't the place for a discussion like that.

The parent's are responsible for them, always. It's the law.
Except when they don't or it's not. Catch a child stealing, the parents aren't responsible for it. The parents are responsible for the child's wellbeing, but little else. Again, this really isn't the place for a discussion like this.

Until you hit 18 you do not have all the right's of an adult.
They also have very few of the responsibilities of an adult, so why should they have the same rights? Same disclaimer.
 
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If all that you look at is purely the safer lifestyle then what the job is doesn't matter.
And Danny is, and Taylor isn't that's basically the point of contention.
I'm willing to bet she'd be ordered not to and if she ignored orders she'd be suspended for a long ass time.
and then either Taylor would be in detention or the people Lung was after would be dead. Which is fairly ok for Danny but not Taylor.
If a child makes choices that the parent feels puts their life at risk the parent can and should stop them.
Except Danny outright does not have that capability, except that Taylor isn't risking her life randomly and just for shits and giggles she's doing it in an attempt to help people that she knows need it and knows she has the ability to help and is slowly coming across reasons to believe (and we as horrible meta people know for a fact there is basis to this) that the Wards are not the optimal path to doing so.
 
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