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Firebird, a Worm AU/Xover?

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If the original paperwork gets filed, Villain or Wards are pretty much the only two options, and Villain is apt to bring more heat than a group like the Undersiders would want if it gets treated like them having kidnapped a rookie member and brainwashed her. Joining the Wards wouldn;'t be so bad, at least for a few months while she gets her powers figured out/before everything goes to hell, except for Sophia being a hot prospect for even more hardball recruitment and Piggot being highly unlikely to care of the two newbies have personal issues with each other except for assigning more punishment duty and shared patrols to get over it when (not if) they come to blows. I say again, though, at this point we might as well just wait and see how chibipoe plans to handle it.

(... I can't believe I got sucked into this Klein bottle of an argument again...)
 
--- CRACK ---

Armsmaster - Codename ' Wild Weasel' ... You need to come with us back to the Ward's HQ. You are not authorized to be out on patrol yet!
Taylor - And how do you propose to stop me?
Armsmaster - With the full might of the Protectorate ENE.
Taylor - *Glances down at the Troopers milling about 100ft below her* Is that it? I mean... theres not that many... Do they even know what I can do?
Armsmaster - They are professionals. They have been trained...
Grunts - We aint trained in shit! I get paid twelve fiddy and they stick a glue gun thing in my hands and tell me to march here and spray that...
Taylor - *Raises her eyebrow*
Armsmaster - The Union is being difficult lately...
Taylor - You know my dad...
Armsmaster - He's the reason why they are being difficult. He want's you home and safe or in the wards and safe.
Taylor - Ok. How about I thrash this lot of underpaid ass hat's, Ill drop you off on Piggy's desk, and then Me and New Wave hang out and eat pizza and drink Root beer until four AM on a School night. Or you can Piss off.
Grunts - We take option B! Option B!
Armsmaster - We have to bring you in... *Helmet clicks shut and Halberd Deploys* By any means necessary.
Grunts - Fucking Armsmaster!

*Later*

Taylor - Hey Emily... Just dropping him off again.
Piggot - Put him over there *Waves to the side of the room marked 'TRASH.'
Taylor - So same time next week?
Piggot - Sure. Have fun.
Taylor - Bye! *Flys away, shutting the window behind her*
Armsmaster - She broke my everything...
Piggot - Wow, she went easy on you this time.
Armsmaster - I'll need asssistance retrieving my... my halberd...
Piggot - Up the ass again?
Armsmaster - ... yeah.
 
Formerly said:
And what will she do when the PRT plasters her face all over the country.
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It sucks that money can't buy a makeover. Or help to smuggle you out of the country. Oh wait, she can fly, she doesn't need help with that one.

Formerly said:
The Wards program would be liable for her well being
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She's not in the Wards. I'm not talking about her being in the Wards. We're spitballing about how far money can get you.

Formerly said:
Finding her would also be incredibly easy because you'd just have to follow the trail of pissed off gangs she'd leave behind.
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Yeah, there's no gang conflict in other cities, so that'd be a dead giveaway.

Formerly said:
She'd also find her new life rather unfulfilling for the next 3 years because she's on the run.
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Except she's not? Pretty sure I mentioned a fake ID and settling in a city as part of my main argument. She's got zero issues about taking on the gangs of a city (otherwise she'd just tell her father she wouldn't go out anymore and actually mean it). Seems like a pretty good life for her to me.

Formerly said:
She couldn't get any government support in any matter because they'd catch on to her, she couldn't stand out in any way because somebody would notice her, she couldn't make a proper living or own anything because she can't have a financial record anywhere
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It's like you're suggesting there's not illegal immigrants in basically every single country in the world. Lets also ignore the part where I said she dropped thousands into getting a fake ID set up to let her work/live/whatever however she wants without tipping off anyone.

Formerly said:
To top it off, she's 15. She doesn't have all of the life skills or knowledge needed to take on the world by herself.
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She's whatever age is on her photo ID, and whatever other papers she gets, and she's shown as basically smart enough to work shit out. Life skills are earned when you stop going to school and start working and living by yourself.

Formerly said:
she will be miserable.
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Possibly for a while. She's abandoning a father who doesn't listen to her, the house she grew up in, and the city she calls home. If she didn't feel bad about it it'd be a concern. But it's amazing how easily people adjust to things. A year on her own, I think she'd feel ok, probably through self justification of her choices.


Czlyydwr Llrngwl said:
(... I can't believe I got sucked into this Klein bottle of an argument again...)
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That's why I'm avoiding it completely by talking about hypotheticals regarding what money can buy... except there's still an argument :(
 
Franklymydear said:
That's why I'm avoiding it completely by talking about hypotheticals regarding what money can buy... except there's still an argument :(
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The problem is that you're arguing with people who are still on that subject, so you're still feeding the debate.

On a personal note, I don't think that Taylor is emotionally ready to cut ties with her life, because for all the bad things happening it's still her life. This isn't about whether or not she could pull it off in my opinion (though without support I'm on the edge for that one) it's about whether or not she's willing to accept that as an option, and I'm not seeing it.
notmi said:
Plus, you guys do know she will have mind control in like a month, right?
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Says...? Besides, even if she does that's the kind of thing that I don't see her willing to use on non-villains, at least for the moment.
 
notmi said:
Plus, you guys do know she will have mind control in like a month, right?
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I was actually trying to avoid the "I'm going to be all powerful in a while, so I'll just wait to then and bend the world to my whim." angle...

Impstar said:
The problem is that you're arguing with people who are still on that subject, so you're still feeding the debate.
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I'm not trying to!
Impstar said:
I don't think that Taylor is emotionally ready to cut ties with her life, because for all the bad things happening it's still her life. This isn't about whether or not she could pull it off in my opinion (though without support I'm on the edge for that one) it's about whether or not she's willing to accept that as an option, and I'm not seeing it.
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It's others who are. This (at least what I've been saying) is about whether or not she could pull it off. I think it'd be best if I just dropped it though, since more people seem to want to use this space for arguing about Danny and the Wards/PRT.
 
Right, feel free to ignore this because people are getting fed up with the subject, but I just wrote it all up so I'm damn well gonna post it.
Have you ever talked to a teenage runaway before? Or a kid that was thrown out of his house before? I have, I'm friends with guys from my old neighborhood who've been there, done that, and slept in that box.
Even with plenty of initial resources and a minor support network the runaway returned home within a week. He couldn't do anything with his life because he wasn't 18. The one that was thrown out returned to a poor and shitty household and apologized to his parents (who threw him out) because he was less miserable there than he was on his own.
Ask any social worker what the statistics are for runaways. Even when accounting for resources and some support they still aren't pretty. Taylor would probably make it a month or two before she gets sick of running, exploited, caught, or looses her marbles and burns the planet to a cinder.
Money can't get you far when you're 15. Every action you take chips away at your already low comfort level. A makeover and fake ID costs you everything that makes you you, leaving familiar lands costs you everything you've ever known, making a living robbing gangs necessitates living in proximity to gang violence and poverty and spending your time risking life and limb (which the Coil assault has proven she isn't infallible in doing). Your suggested course of action involves Taylor fighting for her life so she can give up her identity and everything she's ever known or cared about.
No false identity is infallible, and even the best ones do nothing if the one holding it isn't good at the role. Neither in Canon nor in Firebird has Taylor exhibited anything other than an inability to be anybody other than herself. Trying makes her miserable in Canon and Sirin got figured out in 3 seconds. Many things in the current day and age require background checks or will have people doing them anyhow. Most faked identities can't stand up to more than a cursory examination.
There is gang violence everywhere. Law enforcement monitors it. How often is there a case where you can plot a line across the map showing the general pattern of vigilante attacks against gangs over time. Furthermore the lines that don't start around BB after this date can be ignored as not Taylor.
Finally you assume that she can get anywhere without being exploited or shot. She is powerful, but she isn't skilled or experienced, and she's very vulnerable emotionally. She might as well be wearing a sandwich board saying "Easy Victim! 60% Off!"
 
I was wondering on something. Shouldn't the unwritten rules mean that no matter what the PRT or her dad do all she needs to do to keep doing the hero thing is get a new costume and name. Then the PRT can suspect all they want but can't take any action against her for doing the hero thing without compromising their position with the gangs or some fairly heavy PR doublespeak to get the new hero classed as a villain. Sure if she does something obvious to link the new persona and herself she's in trouble but if she avoids that their hands are kinda tied. Combine it with a swap from primary telekinetic to pyrokinetic if she wants.
 
The trials and tribulations of Taylor the teenage runaway is an interesting story idea. However, Firebird pretty clearly isn't that story. Chibipoe has taken the time to re-imagine certain canon heroes and introduce OC heroes and villains. Taylor is less likely to leave Brockton Bay any time soon than Danny is to sign her up for the Wards program against her will without having a meaningful conversation with her on the subject. And that idea has been all but jossed by Word of God.

chibipoe said:
The PRT getting what they want? Ahahahahaha.
Does anyone get what they want in my previous examples of writing? Well... ok, I guess Taylor DID get what she wanted at the end of Acceleration... to see her dad again.. so maybe that's a bad question.

Rest assured, even IF the PRT did get her signed up via her Dad, it would absolutely not be what they want. It would very quickly be Do Not Want. I'd like to think I'm more adept than that(frankly, angry Taylor at odds with the Wards/PRT just isn't interesting to me, so chances of that possibility happening are very slim)
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00mega said:
The trials and tribulations of Taylor the teenage runaway is an interesting story idea. However, Firebird pretty clearly isn't that story. Chibipoe has taken the time to re-imagine certain canon heroes and introduce OC heroes and villains. Taylor is less likely to leave Brockton Bay any time soon than Danny is to sign her up for the Wards program against her will without having a meaningful conversation with her on the subject. And that idea has been all but jossed by Word of God.
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To be precise, that was in response to a theory that she was going to go murderbird on them(exaggeration, ahoy) over the whole thing while continuing to be a hero. She'd prefer they just leave her alone. Taylor vs the PRT was done in canon and this has been a different tactic so far, but even so, I don't expect to have Taylor curbstomping them because they won't stop pestering her.
 
Aldon said:
I was wondering on something. Shouldn't the unwritten rules mean that no matter what the PRT or her dad do all she needs to do to keep doing the hero thing is get a new costume and name. Then the PRT can suspect all they want but can't take any action against her for doing the hero thing without compromising their position with the gangs or some fairly heavy PR doublespeak to get the new hero classed as a villain. Sure if she does something obvious to link the new persona and herself she's in trouble but if she avoids that their hands are kinda tied. Combine it with a swap from primary telekinetic to pyrokinetic if she wants.
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Yeah no. That's like saying that they can't take in a villain who is completely and obviously a specific villain just because they changed costumes and weren't caught committing crimes. If of course it is completely obvious in that example, as it would be for Taylor. The unwritten rules generally don't protect those who abuse them, and for the people that try to do so, if the rules are "broken" in that case people seem to look the other way.
 
Franklymydear said:
Since you insist on ignoring me, it does seem fair.
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That's not how you should go about ending a debate, nobody thinks well of a parting shot. It usually just reignites the whole damn thing only the tempers are a little more tweaked than before. As it is, right now I'm making myself equally guilty of it too because you took that there parting shot at me, but you now have only yourself to blame for this continuing.
 
Impstar said:
Yeah no. That's like saying that they can't take in a villain who is completely and obviously a specific villain just because they changed costumes and weren't caught committing crimes. If of course it is completely obvious in that example, as it would be for Taylor. The unwritten rules generally don't protect those who abuse them, and for the people that try to do so, if the rules are "broken" in that case people seem to look the other way.
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They can try take in her cape persona but they can't try take in her civilian persona for things that the cape did was what I was saying. If they do keep going after the cape then they get to deal with the PR of constantly attacking an independent which they might not like considering they tend to be shown as PR concious. They aren't going to be able to explain why they keep they are going after the new cape.
 
Aldon said:
They can try take in her cape persona but they can't try take in her civilian persona for things that the cape did was what I was saying. If they do keep going after the cape then they get to deal with the PR of constantly attacking an independent which they might not like considering they tend to be shown as PR concious. They aren't going to be able to explain why they keep they are going after the new cape.
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Sure they can. She's not an independent at that point, she's a Ward. Why? Officially it isn't Sirin that's a Ward, it's Taylor. What she calls her cape persona doesn't change that. They aren't going after an independent that's done nothing, they're going after a rogue Ward.
 
Please to be taking a step back and letting tempers cool, everyone. There seems to be some tension developing here and I'd like my thread to remain a happy, mostly mod-free presence. It was 90 some pages before we first saw a mod and I'd like to avoid one coming back. This has been a poeblic service message. This cpu will now shut down.
 
chibipoe said:
Please to be taking a step back and letting tempers cool, everyone. There seems to be some tension developing here and I'd like my thread to remain a happy, mostly mod-free presence. It was 90 some pages before we first saw a mod and I'd like to avoid one coming back. This has been a poeblic service message. This cpu will now shut down.
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At first I thought this was a typo, so I was going to rate that post hugs. I'm embarrassed I didn't get the pun sooner. :oops:
 
kjyl said:
Which one? SpiderGwen or GwenCarnage?
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Spider-Gwen is an alternate storyline which I think is pretty decently done. GewnCarnage...never heard of that one, but my call is 'dear GOD no'.

No, what I'M talking about is main universe Marvel canon where Gwen supposedly had an affair with Norman Osborn. THAT. It was a writer's hack deliberately designed so people would stop obsessing about Gwen Stacy. It warms my heart that it didn't seem to work, but still...

One of these days, I'm writing a WormFic where Coil decides to be a HERO because every timeline he goes the villain route he gets killed. So, buckle up...
 
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