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Finding the Spark (Pathfinder 1E Quest)

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@Goldfish @Tomcost

I get wanting diversity in character's abilities between quests. I feel that too.
But Sirim is focused on the Shadow line of spells (Evocation and Conjuration) and has access to Wild Arcana.
He's already pretty darn well covered for those two schools imo. Unless I'm missing something, the that means that the benefit of Harmonious Mage looks to be pretty well covered, especially when Sirim reaches levels 7 and 9?
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An argument for getting access to Divination/Prophecy from Flexible School: The support buffs from that school/sub-school are Sirim seeing that the people he's with actually do care for him, and slowly internalising what he knows on an intellectual level: That supporting others in what they do (if you're lucky to fall in with the right crowd), means that they're gonna help you back.

And eventually, a long time from now on an emotional level it might even register that these people care about him. Proper 'register', to the point where his paranoid trait is modified to a DC 12 or 13 when it comes to accepting an Aid Another from a party member:
"Sirim!" you hear yourself scream
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But even if you still think that the Divination school is pretty well covered in Tomcost's (fantastic) quest, I can't help but wonder if I'm missing the benefit Sirim would get from Harmonious Mage? Perhaps we'd be better of with something else? [I've not investigated what else might work well)

Edit: There's not a lot there for Sirim. Gonna look into what people on forums say about other Schools that we might like for 'Flexible School (Ex)'
 
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BeepSmile said:
@Goldfish @Tomcost

I get wanting diversity in character's abilities between quests. I feel that too.
But Sirim is focused on the Shadow line of spells (Evocation and Conjuration) and has access to Wild Arcana.
He's already pretty darn well covered for those two schools imo. Unless I'm missing something, the benefits of Harmonious mage looks to be pretty well covered, especially when Sirim reaches levels 7 and 9?
---
An argument for getting access to Divination/Prophecty from Mythic Power: The support buffs from that school/sub-school are Sirim seeing that the people he's with actually do care for him, and slowly internalising what he knows on an intellectual level: That supporting others in what they do (if you're lucky to fall in with the right crowd), means that they're gonna help you back.

And eventually, a long time from now on an emotional level it might even register that these people care about him. Proper 'register', to the point where his paranoid trait is modified to a DC 12 or 13 when it comes to accepting an Aid Another from a party member.

----
But even if you still think that the Divination school is pretty well covered in Tomcost's (fantastic) quest, I can't help but wonder if I'm missing the benefit Sirim would get from Harmonious Mage? Perhaps we'd be better of with something else? [I've not investigated what else might work well)
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I'm down for either option. Each one has significant benefits.

The buffs from the Divination school would be very nice pretty much immediately, but there isn't a lot of extra functionality outside of those buffs.

Having unfettered access to Evocation and Conjuration magic is a different kind of useful, though. Shadow versions of the spells will be our go tos for prepared spells most of the time, but being able to use the real versions will help in a lot of cases. Also, there are a lot of Conjuration spells that don't really map over to the Shadow Conjuration spells very well.
 
@DragonParadox, would Sirim be able to use Wild Arcana to cast Evocation and Conjuration spells without penalty? I can't find anything saying he would have trouble doing so.
 
BeepSmile said:
@Goldfish @Tomcost

I get wanting diversity in character's abilities between quests. I feel that too.
But Sirim is focused on the Shadow line of spells (Evocation and Conjuration) and has access to Wild Arcana.
He's already pretty darn well covered for those two schools imo. Unless I'm missing something, the that means that the benefit of Harmonious Mage looks to be pretty well covered, especially when Sirim reaches levels 7 and 9?
---
An argument for getting access to Divination/Prophecy from Flexible School: The support buffs from that school/sub-school are Sirim seeing that the people he's with actually do care for him, and slowly internalising what he knows on an intellectual level: That supporting others in what they do (if you're lucky to fall in with the right crowd), means that they're gonna help you back.

And eventually, a long time from now on an emotional level it might even register that these people care about him. Proper 'register', to the point where his paranoid trait is modified to a DC 12 or 13 when it comes to accepting an Aid Another from a party member:

----
But even if you still think that the Divination school is pretty well covered in Tomcost's (fantastic) quest, I can't help but wonder if I'm missing the benefit Sirim would get from Harmonious Mage? Perhaps we'd be better of with something else? [I've not investigated what else might work well)

Edit: There's not a lot there for Sirim. Gonna look into what people on forums say about other Schools that we might like for 'Flexible School (Ex)'
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Both Sirim and Ellac have the Studen of Philosohpy traits which allow to basically dump stat charisma while being the party's face. Having them both sharing the powers from a Divination School would make them quite similar I feel.

I mean, the powers are cool and everything, but I feel like we are just choosing the number goes up option instead of flavor and... we just got a mythic rank, I think that we can afford to make this interesting instead.
 
Goldfish said:
@DragonParadox, would Sirim be able to use Wild Arcana to cast Evocation and Conjuration spells without penalty? I can't find anything saying he would have trouble doing so.
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He's gone to bed. And... reasonable. BUT I RESENT IT REGARDLESS, due to my excitement for this vote.
Someone needs to go to his house and throw things at him so he can answer.
Tomcost said:
Both Sirim and Ellac have the Studen of Philosohpy traits which allow to basically dump stat charisma while being the party's face. Having them both sharing the powers from a Divination School would make them quite similar I feel.

I mean, the powers are cool and everything, but I feel like we are just choosing the number goes up option instead of flavour and... we just got a mythic rank, I think that we can afford to make this interesting instead.
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I didn't notice that bit.
You know what, I don't want Sirim to take a Divination school anymore. And you're right - I was looking at it from 'numbers go up' and justifying it after. Which isn't how I want to play this quest. Thank you.
I do want flavour, as long as it has some small, but relatively common mechanical usage.

I got distracted by magical tattoos (look amazing. too amazing. game breaking, maybe) for a bit, so I've not checked out any other Schools yet.
Edit: This (900 gold) for Cob: Enchantment Spells
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I've not looked at the 3rd party schools, but the best (imo) of the classic schools I've found is "Transmutation -> Enhancement"

Enhancement – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com www.d20pfsrd.com
Transmutation Arcane School

Transmuters use magic to change the world around them.

Physical Enhancement (Su)

You gain a +1 enhancement bonus to one physical ability score (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution). This bonus increases by +1 for every five wizard levels you possess to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. You can change this bonus to a new ability score when you prepare spells. At 20th level, this bonus applies to two physical ability scores of your choice.

Telekinetic Fist (Sp)
As a standard action you can strike with a telekinetic fist, targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The telekinetic fist deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage + 1 for every two wizard levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Change Shape (Sp)
At 8th level, you can change your shape for a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. This ability otherwise functions like beast shape II or elemental body I. At 12th level, this ability functions like beast shape III or elemental body II.
Replacement Powers: The following school powers replace the telekinetic fist and change shape powers of the transmutation school.

Augment (Sp): As a standard action, you can touch a creature and grant it either a +2 enhancement bonus to a single ability score of your choice or a +1 bonus to natural armor that stacks with any natural armor the creature might possess. At 10th level, the enhancement bonus to one ability score increases to +4. The natural armor bonus increases by +1 for every five wizard levels you possess, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. This augmentation lasts a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1 round). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

Perfection of Self (Su): At 8th level, as a swift action you can grant yourself an enhancement bonus to a single ability score equal to 1/2 your wizard level (maximum +10) for one round. You may use this ability for a number of times per day equal to your wizard level.
Edit Edit: A person on the internet said that the duration of Enhancement abilities are too low, and I can see it.
Edit: Apparently 'Wood' is phenomenal, and I'd say so, if DP allows it. Very not Sirim vibes though - at least how I see him, though. So... I'm opposed.

Edit

Void – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com www.d20pfsrd.com

Smoke – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com www.d20pfsrd.com
(Fire -> Smike is prbly better)
 
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Instead of using Sirim's Mythic Feat to learn Mythic Spell Lore, what if we instead had him learn the Mythic Spell Focus (Illusion) feat?

Spell Focus (Mythic) – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com www.d20pfsrd.com

He could still learn Mythic Spellcasting using his path ability.

Mythic Spell Focus is pretty nice, and can even be used to force a target to roll twice and use the lowest result. It would be keeping to his theme.
 
It also says "rolls" so I think should apply to the will saves to disbelieve his Shadow spells, as well as the spells they're emulating.

I like the idea.
The arcane schools didn't really grab me that much tbh.
 
BeepSmile said:
It also says "rolls" so I think should apply to the will saves to disbelieve his Shadow spells, as well as the spells they're emulating.

I like the idea.
The arcane schools didn't really grab me that much tbh.
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I've updated Sirim's build again with Mythic Spell Focus.
 
@DragonParadox
I know the regular Ogres were basically extras in this, but is it correct that in the second update of the fight, none of them acted except for the priest?

[X] Goldfish

I like the builds.

I'd still prefer Harmonious Mage, if only for the feeling that a true Archmage shouldn't have such a thing as spells he can't easily cast, but that can come later too.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
Never underestimate the Crowd Control a fish with a level 6 party can bring, I guess.
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what

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Anyways, despite it costing two Mythic Power points to cast Conjuration/Evocation (as is), I still think I'd prefer for Sirim to focus on the Illusion DC and just use Shadow spells.

But I do strongly prefere Kori to get all his Touch spells upgraded to 30 Range over getting slightly better relevation bonuses

Will edit vote when I get to computer.
 
BeepSmile said:
But I do strongly prefere Kori to get all his Touch spells upgraded to 30 Range over getting slightly better relevation bonuses
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Kori doesn't really have much in the way of Touch-range spells. Basically, it's just the Cure spells and PfE. I don't think using his first Mythic path ability to turn them into 30ft ranged touch spells is worth it.

Mythic Domain does more than provide slightly better Revelation bonuses. +2 AC and Stealth right now, plus another +2 to both next time he levels is significant. His Cloak of Darkness power currently only provides +4 to AC and +2 to Stealth, so the protection would increase by 50% and the Stealth by 100%, to +6 AC and +4 Stealth, or +8 AC and +6 Stealth next level. That's like going from having a Chain Shirt for armor to a Breastplate, then from a Breastplate to Half-plate. The duration would also increase by 4 hours per day.

He'll be able to learn another spell via Dark Secrets. More spells are always nice.

And the 4 extra effective levels count for any other Revelation he learns as well. He gets another one at 7th level. I want him to learn Shadow Projection. With Mythic Domain, he would be able to use it for 11 hours per day rather than 7. That's not too shabby, since it will let spend even more time outside his body as a Shadow, if necessary.
 
Vote closed, lets see how this goes.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 18, 2024 at 6:11 AM, finished with 62 posts and 5 votes.
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Sirim and Mina can cast Carry Companion now using Wild Arcana, so transporting Warty will be much simpler going forward. We won't have to worry about people who are afraid of adorable frog monsters, find ships willing to carry him, stables where he can be housed when we visit cities, etc. It's a seriously useful spell I've been hoping to find for a while now.

Carry Companion – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com www.d20pfsrd.com

Also, it makes the Surprise!Pocket Slurk maneuver possible. 🐸
 
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Arc 9 Post 1: A Sword from the Muck
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    • A Sword from the Muck ​

    11th of Neth 4707 A.R. (Absalom Reckoning)

    Looking up from the fire the world looks clearer to your eyes, colors bright with subtle meaning and shadows deep with promise, but for all that the five of you are still in the same place, the southwestern Verduran Forest in an ogre's camp, if one can even call this barely sorted pile of refuse a camp. The former inhabitants seemed to have an affinity for taking trophies but not cleaning them, and the less said about the smell the better. Still, a wanderer's life teaches one to look for things of worth in even the most noisome places, and thus you find almost nine hundred gold in various coins, mostly Taldan of varying age and markings, and a large earthenware pot that looks and smells like it's filled with fresh blood, but proves to be the a kind of healing potion. The question of what or whose blood went into the brewing leaves Mina looking more than a bit queasy, but not enough to leave several bottles worth healing potion out here to be picked over by curious wolves.

    The only other potion you find seems to have fallen from the champion's satchel at some point in his fight with Sylestryx, fortunate or it would have been lost forever along with his bones and armor, now half-melted to scrap. It contains a cloudy blue liquid that froths white when shaken, far lighter than it should be in the hand you recognize it as a potion of flight. It would be nowhere near enough to keep up with a dragon on the wing, but assuming Sylestrix had been wary enough to keep high and on the move, this usurpation of her natural domain would likely have been enough to draw her into a duel, one she would most likely have lost.

    Cob, meanwhile, manages to uncover a handful of alchemical supplies near the edge of the camp in a pile of dirty pelts. Who had sold it to them, you wonder, or had they just been particularly thrifty with their spoils from battles past?

    Akorian Spellcraft (DC 18): 1d20+8 = 26 (Success)

    It is around that time that Sylestryx herself shows up with a pair of ogre bodies in her claws, which she drops by Gorok before circling back for more. Their weapons are a mix of crude clubs with nails and iron spikes hammered into them and smaller weapons obviously claimed from past fights. With a bit of polish you'll be rid of the blood and most of the rust which is, alas, more than can be said for the armor. Patched together to roughly fit the prodigious but sometimes uneven frames of the giant-kin, and not in the least oiled or cared for, a blacksmith's unlikely to buy these for more than their weight in metal after a good scrubbing.

    Meanwhile, Gorok had picked up the spat out head of your adversary, thinking to dry it in case someone put out a bounty on him and his band. They look like the sort who'd have a price on their heads

    By the time the friendly dragon returns—Isn't that a tunnel-twist of a thought?—looking very pleased with herself after her hunt, you finally turn your attention to the final piece, the champion's sword. You recognize the winged Eye of Aroden cast in gold on the pommel at once, though you cannot read the lettering on the blade.

    "A crusader's blade," Mina exclaims, tracing the letters.

    "Against the demons?" Sirim asks, pulled from meditating on the night's events, as the rest of you had not been able to.

    "Against the Tyrant," she answers even as she carefully cleans away more of the grime. "This is a sword of the Knights of Ozem. It was drawn at the Battle of Vaishali Pass and the Battle of Three Sorrows where Iomedae, not yet a goddess, broke the armies of the Whispering Tyrant, that's what the verses commemorate. What's it doing here, in the hands of such a being?"

    Sirim Knowledge Religion (DC 30): 1d20+13+1d6 (Mythic Surge) = 34 (Success)

    "If I were to make a guess, I'd say it's previous owner lost a fight with an ogre," Sirim offers dryly. "There is still power in it, but... hmm. I'd say it had been rededicated to Haggaka,l and then the events of the day unmoored it. It can hardly become a holy blade of Aroden once more when Aroden is dead after all."

    "It could channel the power of the Inheritor," Mina notes. "It was part of two of her great victories."

    Syrim cannot smile, but you had learned enough about the swirling of his form to say he's amused as he is interested when he answers: "As entertaining as seeing the five of us in an Iomedaen temple would be, there is more potential here than a mere reward from the Crusaders. This sword, by happenstance and the manner of our triumph, contains the thaumic echo of a dead god. There is much that might be learned from it about the nature of reality, and perhaps the fate of Aroden."

    "Why do we care about dead eye-god?" Cob asks resonably.

    "Good question," Sirim sounds like he means that with utter sincerity. "The tombs of men often contain great treasures, yes?" he waits for a nod. "Then imagine how much of a greater prize the tomb of a god would be."

    "Ooooooooooh," Cob breathes wide-eyed. He looks about ready to pick up a shovel.

    Valuables:
    Look 832 gp
    A collection of bucklers, buttons, and gold teeth (Worth roughly 50 gp)

    Potions:
    4x Potions of Cure Light Wounds
    2x Potions of Bear's Endurance
    1x Potion of Cure Serious Wounds
    1x Potion of Fly

    Alchemical Weapons:
    2x Alchemist Fires
    2x Tanglefoots

    Weapons:
    1x Masterwork Heavy Flail
    2x Greataxes
    1x Greatsword

    Trade Goods:
    200 lbs of metal scrap
    6 Poorly tanned hides

    Magic Items:
    2x Rings of Protection
    1x Inner Circle Greatsword of the Knights of Ozem (Currently serves as a +2 Greatsword)

    What does Kori think should be done with the sword?

    [] Give it to the Church of Iomedae, you've got leads enough to wealth and power to last you lifetimes

    [] Keep it, maybe the Last Azlanti will be of some more use to his descendants even in death. If he was worthy of the title he'd wish for no less

    [] Write in

    OOC: Enjoy.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • I say add it to the list!
    We can do a quick poke (divination, someday commune?) to see where to follow up on the lead, and swing by if we're in the area.

    In and out, 20 minutes adventure.
     
    That's some good loot to go a long with all the XP and Mythic power we just harvested. The sword is nifty, but I think we would be better off giving it over to the Church of Iomedae. No one in our party can use it to its full potential and while it is very valuable even as a simple +2 Great sword, we can probably earn some serious favor with the church if we give it to them, maybe even a nice reward.

    Our party is unconventional and optics will always be a concern for us, to say the least, so opportunities to build a good rep with powerful organizations like the Church of Iomedae are hard to pass up, especially when we aren't exactly on the good side of a couple other religions now that we can add an Ogre god to the shit list.

    [X] Give it to the Church of Iomedae, you've got leads enough to wealth and power to last you lifetimes
     
    Goldfish said:
    [X] Give it to the Church of Iomedae, you've got leads enough to wealth and power to last you lifetimes
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    Don't disagree at all, but given he is a Crusader himself, should we show Leo and get his thoughts on it? I'm sure it would interest him, and he might even have contacts in church from his crusading days.

    Maybe add sub-vote of showing it to him and asking? Heck, he might even want sword himself! Its a big deal for a crusader after all.
     
    Massgamer said:
    Don't disagree at all, but given he is a Crusader himself, should we show Leo and get his thoughts on it? I'm sure it would interest him, and he might even have contacts in church from his crusading days.

    Maybe add sub-vote of showing it to him and asking? Heck, he might even want sword himself! Its a big deal for a crusader after all.
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    He used to be a Crusader, given where he is now odds are good his feelings to the Crusade are at the very least complicated.
     
    Massgamer said:
    Don't disagree at all, but given he is a Crusader himself, should we show Leo and get his thoughts on it? I'm sure it would interest him, and he might even have contacts in church from his crusading days.

    Maybe add sub-vote of showing it to him and asking? Heck, he might even want sword himself! Its a big deal for a crusader after all.
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    I'm not against showing it to him, but he was a Crusader from a completely different crusade, one that came thousands of years after the one where this sword saw battle.

    He also left service as a Crusader, as did many of his fellow mercs. I doubt he would be terribly enthusiastic about signing back up or placing himself under church authority.
     
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