Finding the Spark (Pathfinder 1E Quest)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Fantasy
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- Tags
- pathfinder
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
If we never kill people who attack us because we have to worry about their associates coming for revenge, we'll always have enemies everywhere we go.
This group of thieves doesn't deserve our mercy.
They really are not a resource at all. They can't be trusted even slightly. There's a decent chance they would act against us again if we left them around for some reason.
- Location
- florida
I've been thinking on something for a bit. Namely. What we look like and the company we are keeping.
They could be blatantly heroic altruists trying to disrupt the workings of the "evil" Aspis consortium.
Pathfinders even.
We know nothing about them.
Kill them if you are certain that is justice.
But at least interrogate them. Come on.
- Location
- Germany
I'm too biased to vote in this particular case, but as a general strategy I'd avoid killing people after any little tussle, in hope that they'd do the same if it comes down to it.
These are not demons and they are likely no agents of Cheliax or Nidal, jjust people who looked for a rich mark and found one with more capability at tracking them than expected.
Not exactly blood-feud material, when Weregild can do.
These are not demons and they are likely no agents of Cheliax or Nidal, jjust people who looked for a rich mark and found one with more capability at tracking them than expected.
Not exactly blood-feud material, when Weregild can do.
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I'm categorically against killing them for purely meta reasons.
This is a story about a bunch of misfits having adventures. I consider it pretty light-hearted. It's not a realistic story about survival in a cut-throat fantasy world.
And I don't think any more that hiring them is a good idea, since they can indeed double-cross us easily by talking to Gavhaul.
That leaves two options: deliver them to justice (which might be killing them with extra steps) or letting them go without making enemies of them.
As far as I can see, they tried to de-escalate the situation. They had us surrounded, but sprung their ambush only when we saw through the attempt to lead us away. So I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
[X] Robbing the robbers
-[X] "We appreciate that you tried to solve this without bloodshed. And there's no reason to turn this into a massacre now."
-[X] If one of our party comes from a culture that uses weregild, use that concept: "You tried to steal from us, so you have pay. That settles the matter. No side holds a grudge."
-[X] Use Intimidate to dissuade them from revenge.
-[X] Take some of their magical items. Don't leave them completely destitute, but take enough to cripple their ability to fight. The value should be at least equivalent to Mina's staff.
-[X] Use Detect Thought to interrogate them about what they know about the caravan, how they learned it, etc.
This is a story about a bunch of misfits having adventures. I consider it pretty light-hearted. It's not a realistic story about survival in a cut-throat fantasy world.
And I don't think any more that hiring them is a good idea, since they can indeed double-cross us easily by talking to Gavhaul.
That leaves two options: deliver them to justice (which might be killing them with extra steps) or letting them go without making enemies of them.
As far as I can see, they tried to de-escalate the situation. They had us surrounded, but sprung their ambush only when we saw through the attempt to lead us away. So I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
[X] Robbing the robbers
-[X] "We appreciate that you tried to solve this without bloodshed. And there's no reason to turn this into a massacre now."
-[X] If one of our party comes from a culture that uses weregild, use that concept: "You tried to steal from us, so you have pay. That settles the matter. No side holds a grudge."
-[X] Use Intimidate to dissuade them from revenge.
-[X] Take some of their magical items. Don't leave them completely destitute, but take enough to cripple their ability to fight. The value should be at least equivalent to Mina's staff.
-[X] Use Detect Thought to interrogate them about what they know about the caravan, how they learned it, etc.
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- Location
- St. Petersburg
I was going to say we should take one of them hostage if that's the case, probably with a Sleep spell. But it played out like this anyway, except with unconsciousness.
Do we see what they are packing?
Pretty well, all things considered. The phylactery, destroyed. The rat-kin, dead. Don't remember if he had anything on him. His son, humiliated and turned around after he provided us with Endless Source of Loot that is the random encounters, like the one we are having now. And we are of great use to the caravan we are guarding, always a plus.
All in all, if we are considering this party and their valuables a result of the rat-kin encounter, I say it worked perfectly.
Buuut... I'd like this method where you down one member and the party stands down to keep working, which might necessitate we learn to accept surrenders.
This is a party of thieves, not assassins. I think we can let them go.
That, too. I'd like to know how they got the idea of attacking the caravan.They could be blatantly heroic altruists trying to disrupt the workings of the "evil" Aspis consortium.
Pathfinders even.
We know nothing about them.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Okay, if y'all don't want to kill them, how about this? Sorry if it's a bit...overly thorough.
[X] A path to survival
-[X] Each of the thieves is to disarm themselves and allow Gorok to tightly bind their hands and feet, as well as binding their bat's wings and claws. Once they're bound, Gorok will also blindfold them with scraps of cloth. Cob will similarly deal with the unconscious shape shifter, though it might be wasted effort in her case. If he has an Iruxi net tucked away in our satchel, now is the time to use it. Any resistance will be dealt with fatally.
-[X] Once the thieves are thoroughly incapacitated, we'll wake up Urgor. He's likely to be less murderous if he returns to consciousness to see the thieves captured.
-[X] Quietly, Mina casts Heroism and Hermean Potential on Kori, and he casts Channel Vigor (for a total +25 or +27 Intimidate bonus). He then uses Intimidate, with Urgor providing assistance using Aid Another, to address the thieves. "I don't want to hold a grudge and there is already too much blood on my hands, unlike my good friend Master Urgor here, who nurses grudges like they're his own kin and would gladly decorate the forest with your entrails for the wrong you've committed against him." Kori pauses to gesture at the fuming Dwarf, allowing the man to interject if he wishes. "So that means you get a chance to live and let bygones be bygones. All you have to do is answer our questions truthfully. One lie and your chance for survival ends. It won't be much trouble to question your corpses, if it comes to that, just messier than we would prefer."
--[X] "To help things along, we're going to use a bit of truthtelling magic and my witch friend's Hexes. Nothing harmful, I assure you. Do not resist the spells or Hexes, for your own continued well-being."
-[X] Kori uses Shadow Enchantment to cast a Zone of Truth spell, and Mina will use her Evil Eye Hex on each of the thieves. She'll begin using Cackle to maintain the Evil Eye Hex for the duration of the interrogation. Kori also uses Detect Thoughts to examine the surface thoughts of each thief during the interrogation.
--[X] While Kori rummages through their thoughts and pays attention for lies and obfuscation, Sirim demands their names, affiliations, organizations they belong to, where they heard about the expedition, what their plans were after stealing from us, who their contacts and fences are, their abilities, and intentions after we set them free. He'll also inquire about the fate of the slain mercenary guard, who was lost down by the river, and anything else he believes relevant. Assuming they answer satisfactorily, and were not responsible for the guard's death, we'll keep their magic items, along with any genuine maps, potions, poisons, or Alchemical goods they possess, but leave them the rest of their equipment and half their money or 400 gold (whichever leaves us with more).
-[X] Before we leave them, after they are first all thoroughly bound together and to a sturdy tree, Mina uses her Healing Hex on each of them then targets them with a Web spell. It's wasteful, but insures they are taken out of circulation for a while, assuming they can escape their bonds in a reasonable amount of time. The Web should actually keep them relatively safe as well. Mina will then uses her Pass Without Trace SLA on everyone and we'll return to meet up with the expedition.
[X] A path to survival
-[X] Each of the thieves is to disarm themselves and allow Gorok to tightly bind their hands and feet, as well as binding their bat's wings and claws. Once they're bound, Gorok will also blindfold them with scraps of cloth. Cob will similarly deal with the unconscious shape shifter, though it might be wasted effort in her case. If he has an Iruxi net tucked away in our satchel, now is the time to use it. Any resistance will be dealt with fatally.
-[X] Once the thieves are thoroughly incapacitated, we'll wake up Urgor. He's likely to be less murderous if he returns to consciousness to see the thieves captured.
-[X] Quietly, Mina casts Heroism and Hermean Potential on Kori, and he casts Channel Vigor (for a total +25 or +27 Intimidate bonus). He then uses Intimidate, with Urgor providing assistance using Aid Another, to address the thieves. "I don't want to hold a grudge and there is already too much blood on my hands, unlike my good friend Master Urgor here, who nurses grudges like they're his own kin and would gladly decorate the forest with your entrails for the wrong you've committed against him." Kori pauses to gesture at the fuming Dwarf, allowing the man to interject if he wishes. "So that means you get a chance to live and let bygones be bygones. All you have to do is answer our questions truthfully. One lie and your chance for survival ends. It won't be much trouble to question your corpses, if it comes to that, just messier than we would prefer."
--[X] "To help things along, we're going to use a bit of truthtelling magic and my witch friend's Hexes. Nothing harmful, I assure you. Do not resist the spells or Hexes, for your own continued well-being."
-[X] Kori uses Shadow Enchantment to cast a Zone of Truth spell, and Mina will use her Evil Eye Hex on each of the thieves. She'll begin using Cackle to maintain the Evil Eye Hex for the duration of the interrogation. Kori also uses Detect Thoughts to examine the surface thoughts of each thief during the interrogation.
--[X] While Kori rummages through their thoughts and pays attention for lies and obfuscation, Sirim demands their names, affiliations, organizations they belong to, where they heard about the expedition, what their plans were after stealing from us, who their contacts and fences are, their abilities, and intentions after we set them free. He'll also inquire about the fate of the slain mercenary guard, who was lost down by the river, and anything else he believes relevant. Assuming they answer satisfactorily, and were not responsible for the guard's death, we'll keep their magic items, along with any genuine maps, potions, poisons, or Alchemical goods they possess, but leave them the rest of their equipment and half their money or 400 gold (whichever leaves us with more).
-[X] Before we leave them, after they are first all thoroughly bound together and to a sturdy tree, Mina uses her Healing Hex on each of them then targets them with a Web spell. It's wasteful, but insures they are taken out of circulation for a while, assuming they can escape their bonds in a reasonable amount of time. The Web should actually keep them relatively safe as well. Mina will then uses her Pass Without Trace SLA on everyone and we'll return to meet up with the expedition.
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At a glance, stuff that looks magical:
- Gavis has a magical sword with a dragon pummel (which he did not get to use)
- The shifter's leathers seem too supple and alive to be entirely natural and she has an amulet with the mark of Iori on it
- And now that you look more closely the Grippli's bow is carved with some kind of swirling symbols
- The halfling was throwing alchemical weapons all fight
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
That's in my plan.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
As an aside, and I think it warrants a separate post... I would acknowledge that people are overly generous to surrendered or defeated parties. Players tend to be lenient when victorious, judging a fight won a tussle not worth mentioning with no harm done, especially when healing is available. The same people would call for bloody murder if one of party companions got killed beyond the means of recovery. But oftentimes what separates a tussle from an unforgivable crime against a PC (the most capital crime as far as players are concerned) is a single die roll. A rogue can splatter an opponent with a lucky critical.
To me then it's a question of intent, and I would answer lethal intent in kind. What influences my decision here is, it doesn't look like this party tried to kill us despite engaging in violence. Like as not, I suspect Gavis is describing his own ethos here:
However, there is still a question of a missing guard. Did the party have a hand in her death?
My attitude towards them would depend on the answer.
To me then it's a question of intent, and I would answer lethal intent in kind. What influences my decision here is, it doesn't look like this party tried to kill us despite engaging in violence. Like as not, I suspect Gavis is describing his own ethos here:
They intended to rob us, and robbed they will be in turn.
However, there is still a question of a missing guard. Did the party have a hand in her death?
My attitude towards them would depend on the answer.
This goes into our pockets, no question about it. Mmm, good stuff.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Ah, forgot to include that in my plan. I'll add that now.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Wait.
Do they actually have maps? If they do, I wanna check that they're not trap-maps, and then take them too.
Honestly, if there are maps I wanna buy them. Because funny.
Should we take their gold if they have it? I'd say that we should leave them about at least... 600 gold?
There's a huge difference between 600 gold and 0 gold when it comes an adventurer group being in a position to get themselves back on their feet.
Do they actually have maps? If they do, I wanna check that they're not trap-maps, and then take them too.
Honestly, if there are maps I wanna buy them. Because funny.
Should we take their gold if they have it? I'd say that we should leave them about at least... 600 gold?
There's a huge difference between 600 gold and 0 gold when it comes an adventurer group being in a position to get themselves back on their feet.
Also, maybe ask if they have subtle/hidden magic items or extradimensional storage?
I think it's highly unlikely, but it's worth checking and if they did, then I'm for voting to kill them since I think it'll get us points with the mercs as a group if we got vengeance on her killer.
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- Location
- St. Petersburg
I'll back you up on that.
Doubt they dealt the blow; there is 'silver death' to look out for, but they could have put her to sleep/drugged her and whatever it is could have used that to get an easy meal.
...that reminds me, the group knows what's up with the dragon, or at least, the beast in the river. They were wary of it. We might want to ask about that.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
I am fairly sure at least some parts of 'A path to survival' are excessive.
That said, having tried once and failed, I don't see them attempting to do it again at half-strength.
The expedition is moving along the river. The thieves have a bat. I have no idea what we achieve by trying to lose them, we are not if they choose to follow.
That said, having tried once and failed, I don't see them attempting to do it again at half-strength.
Yeah, I'd like to propose to not strip them down to their metaphorical pants, it makes recovering lost equipment worth more than the associated risk. And incentivizes being more decisive and lethal about it, too.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
How is it excessive? The purpose is to scare them, loot them, gather information, and leave them unable to continue hassling us or the expedition without killing them.
The point of that part of the plan isn't to keep them from catching up to the expedition, but to delay them so that we can get back with plenty of leeway without needing to worry about them trying to come at us again. It just further makes it clear they should turn around and head back to Carpenden rather than pursuing greed or revenge.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm cool with leaving them some of their money, but leaving by then with magical weapons is a bit too generous, IMO. If y'all want to do it that way, I'll update my plan, but I think we should take all of their money in that case.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
My estimate that they would be unwilling to continue hassling us, which works just as well as being unable. You are putting a lot into that Intimidation roll, going as far as to imply we can curse them at a distance, no matter where they arte. Why would one be worried about being followed then?
I am considering 'half-and-half' approach. Cripple their attacking potential, but not to the point that their recovery hinges on attempting the same at a later date, while better prepared.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I agree with the Web/SLA bits being a bit much. The caravan's position is not secret at all to anyone nearby, and I'd rather have Mina's Web spell handy than put these people at risk of being killed by something in the wilds.
Going to rip off Goldfish's plan, with the following changes:
Rather than "half gold" I'm going to say "leave them with 400 gold, take the rest".
Ask what they know about the rumoured dragon up ahead, and other big threats they know of that the caravan should be wary of.
Remove the Web/Pass without trace.
Also taking out some of the 'we kill you now if you do dumb shit' lines, because I can tolerate a bad decision or two from these people in order to get to the questioning.
Taking maps, giving up to 200 gold for them.
Leaving behind magic items that they hold deep attachemnt to.
Edit: Changing the 'wake up Urgor line when they are tied up'. I don't want Urgor to feel like we're trying to manage him (though, I am trying to manage him)
[X] A path to survival - gentle edits, + silly map purchase:
-[X] Each of the thieves is to disarm themselves and allow Gorok to tightly bind their hands and feet. Once they're bound, Gorok will also blindfold them with scraps of cloth. Cob will similarly deal with the unconscious shape shifter, though it might be wasted effort in her case. If he has an Iruxi net tucked away in our satchel, now is the time to use it.
-[X] Once the thieves are thoroughly incapacitated, we'll wake up Urgor. He's likely to be less murderous if he returns to consciousness to see the thieves captured.
-[X] Quietly, Mina casts Heroism and Hermean Potential on Kori, and he casts Channel Vigor (for a total +25 or +27 Intimidate bonus). He then uses Intimidate, with Urgor providing assistance using Aid Another, to address the thieves. "I don't want to hold a grudge and there is already too much blood on my hands, unlike my good friend Master Urgor here, who nurses grudges like they're his own kin and would gladly decorate the forest with your entrails for the wrong you've committed against him." Kori pauses to gesture at the fuming Dwarf, allowing the man to interject if he wishes. "So that means you get a chance to live and let bygones be bygones. All you have to do is answer our questions truthfully. One lie and your chance for survival ends. It won't be much trouble to question your corpses, if it comes to that, just messier than we would prefer."
--[X] "To help things along, we're going to use a bit of truthtelling magic and my witch friend's Hexes. Nothing harmful, I assure you. Do not resist the spells or Hexes, for your own continued well-being."
-[X] Kori uses Shadow Enchantment to cast a Zone of Truth spell, and Mina will use her Evil Eye Hex on each of the thieves. She'll begin using Cackle to maintain the Evil Eye Hex for the duration of the interrogation. Kori also uses Detect Thoughts to examine the surface thoughts of each thief during the interrogation.
--[X] While Kori rummages through their thoughts and pays attention for lies and obfuscation, Sirim demands their names, affiliations, organizations they belong to, where they heard about the expedition, what their plans were after stealing from us, who their contacts and fences are, their abilities, and intentions after we set them free. He'll also inquire about the date if the slain mercenary guard, who was lost down by the river. Assuming they answer satisfactorily, and were not responsible for the guard's death, we'll take their money (leaving them with 400 gold) and magic items, along with any potions, poisons, or Alchemical goods they possess, but leave them the rest of their equipment. This includes asking them about subtle magic items (rings/necklaces ect) or extradimensional spaces.
-[X] If they have any maps that are trustworthy, take those too.
-[X] If any of their enchanted items is of intense personal significance, or is intensely useful to their class specifically , but not very useful to the average adventurer (e.g. if the shifter's armour provides bonuses while transformed), then leave those.
-[X]We'll also take a lock of hair, vial of blood, and fingernail clipping from each of them, more for continued intimidation and threat than any practical purpose (for now).
-[X] We also ask them what know about the rumoured dragon up ahead, and other big threats they know of that the caravan should be wary of.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I'm fully against leaving them their magic items. Those are our magic items now. Adding in to my rip-off of your plan ask them about extradimensional spaces/subtle items they have