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Finding the Spark (Pathfinder 1E Quest)

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In this instance the details aren't that big of a deal. Not unless some of these items are of personal significance and they MUST have them back or die trying or something.

I'll take that bet as none of them are dwarves however.

What's important is that they understand we could have taken everything but did not.

@Goldfish if you don't mind a suggestion?

If taking all their magical gear is too harsh we could pile their magic stuff and let them point out one item to keep. Maybe two if someone is feeling particularly generous?

Would get us some insight onto their priorities and relationship dynamics. And what the items do if they fail their saves.

I'm not too worried for their continued survival bereft of magical swag.

They have what is likely either a druid or (I think) a shifter in their group. Making it back through the wilderness to civilization shouldn't be beyond them.
 
Nevill said:
My estimate that they would be unwilling to continue hassling us, which works just as well as being unable. You are putting a lot into that Intimidation roll, going as far as to imply we can curse them at a distance, no matter where they arte. Why would one be worried about being followed then?

I am considering 'half-and-half' approach. Cripple their attacking potential, but not to the point that their recovery hinges on attempting the same at a later date, while better prepared.
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Can't they just do what they did last time to get those magic items rather than come after us? The only reason that I'd leave something is if one of the items is some sort of ultra-rare (but still not expensive) class-specific magic item, for example, if that shifter's armour gives her bonuses while transformed. That I'd leave behind. (edit: or if it's of some deep personal significance/heirloom type item)

Actually, adding that into my plan. I don't want stuff that isn't useful in general but is insanely useful to one of them.
 
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zxzx24 said:
What's important is that they understand we could have taken everything but did not.
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Yes, that's the sentiment I'd like to echo.
zxzx24 said:
If taking all their magical gear is too harsh we could pile their magic stuff and let them point out one item to keep. Maybe two if someone is feeling particularly generous?
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Eh, too much control.
Take what is valuable (or harmful) to us, leave the rest. To us it's all convertable gold; to them it might be different.
Potions are an example that checks all boxes; they are useful to us and they make sure the halfling isn't half as dangerous until she replenishes the supplies.
BeepSmile said:
The only reason that I'd leave something is if one of the items is some sort of ultra-rare (but still not expensive) class-specific magic item, for example, if that shifter's armour gives her bonuses while transformed. That I'd leave behind.
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Pretty much.

BeepSmile said:
-[X] If they have any maps that are trustworthy, buy them for a fair price (use mind reading/zone of truth to find out what 'fair' actually is) (if this is above 200 gold, pay maximum of 200 gold and take maps)
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I find it doubly funny because this is Gavis' own phrase. We are doing the same, only in reverse.
"Clever enough to know the worth of maps, the bastard who took mine off me, tried selling it back to me, and safe passage for silver."
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Changed the 'wake up Urgor line when they are tied up'. I don't want Urgor to feel like we're trying to manage him (though, I am trying to manage him).

Sirim now points out we want answers first, and at the end if Urgor still wants to kill them, hopefully we'll have a vote-break, since I would like to throw 'Mina is a good person, and that's a large part of why she's helping you' in his face as to why we're not killing these folk.
 
These people poisoned us and tried to steal from us, then they did steal from Urgor. They stole seriously important shit from him. Then they came at us again when they could have just left. We only found them because they got greedy and tried to take even more. They already had Urgor's wealth and half the Ring Gate.

If they had returned to Carpenden immediately, we would not have been able to catch up to them before any amount of magical tracking or bird communing was ineffective, but instead they set up an ambush and would have killed us just now in that fight if they could get away with it.

Scaring the shit out of them, making them think we might come hunting if they get on our bad sides, and taking their stuff is the least we can do. Offering to buy maps from them is too silly to even contemplate, IMO. It completely ignores the tone of the encounter or the threats we used to guarantee their compliance.

I'm against leaving them with their magical equipment as well. They fucked around and found out, so now their stuff is our loot. They're lucky we didn't slit their throats and be done with it.
 
BeepSmile said:
Changed the 'wake up Urgor line when they are tied up'. I don't want Urgor to feel like we're trying to manage him (though, I am trying to manage him).
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This is just nitpicking about details which are mostly irrelevant, but I actually liked that part. It keeps him from being murderous (no honor in killing tied down foes), and keeps them from doing something stupid because they "knew the dwarf was going to kill them". If they are tied up, they can't do anything stupid.

It's manipulative of us, sure, but that's our nature, or what else is our Bluff bonus about?

Since Urgor didn't participate in the fight, and we resolved his problem for him, he will feel like he doesn't have the final say in what to do with the thieves. This is how we get him to stand down... while also gettting him to play Worse Cop to Kori's Bad one and scaring the thieves with what he might do to them. It's pretty clever.

Goldfish said:
Then they came at us again when they could have just left. We only found them because they got greedy and tried to take even more.
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I think it's not that. They'd be happy to just leave, and they'd do it if we didn't go after them. No such luck, as they stole something majorly important. They set up ambush because they felt they aren't throwing the pursuit off, and PWT couldn't hold us away.
Goldfish said:
If they had returned to Carpenden immediately
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The bat can only transport so many. We were catching up with them.

Edit:
Offering to buy maps from them is too silly to even contemplate, IMO. It completely ignores the tone of the encounter or the threats we used to guarantee their compliance.
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This is obviously not a bargain in good faith. It's taking their stuff, but being "not a savage" about it, in Gavis' own words. I suspect that's how these robbers fancy themselves.
Basically, it's 'robbers get robbed', only 'civilized robbers get robbed in a civil manner'.
Which I find immensely funny.

The other thing, the one that ensures their compliance, is about what happens when things get uncivil.
 
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Goldfish said:
Then they came at us again when they could have just left.
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I disagree with this one.

They only came for us after we tracked them successfully, despite the flying mount, the Pass without Trace and excellent Survival and Stealth skills.
And then we saw through the bullshit of one of them trying to redurect us into either nothing or hostile Fey.

I really doubt they wanted this fight.
 
I've updated my plan to remove taking biological samples from them and to change how much of their money we keep, taking half or leaving them with 400 gold, whichever option gets us more.
Nevill said:
I think it's not that. They'd be happy to just leave, and they'd do it if we didn't go after them. No such luck, as they stole something majorly important. They set up ambush because they felt they aren't throwing the pursuit off, and PWT couldn't hold us away.

The bat can only transport so many. We were catching up with them.
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They had a headstart several hours long because we had to wait for sunrise so Gorok could prepare spells and we were stuck moving at Dwarf speed while their slowpoke Halfling could benefit from the flying shape shifter teammate. The only reason we caught up was because they didn't keep moving for a long time.

I don't know if they just thought they were in the clear and didn't need to be in a hurry, or were planning to make another attempt against us or the expedition, but it amounts to the same thing in the end.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I disagree with this one.

They only came for us after we tracked them successfully, despite the flying mount, the Pass without Trace and excellent Survival and Stealth skills.
And then we saw through the bullshit of one of them trying to redurect us into either nothing or hostile Fey.

I really doubt they wanted this fight.
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That does seem likely to Gorok, these people showed once you had been following the birds for miles.
 
Well, I think enough was said, all that's left are details. I'll vote for the edited plan.

[x] A path to survival - gentle edits, + silly map purchase:
 
Nevill said:
This is just nitpicking about details which are mostly irrelevant, but I actually liked that part. It keeps him from being murderous (no honor in killing tied down foes), and keeps them from doing something stupid because they "knew the dwarf was going to kill them". If they are tied up, they can't do anything stupid.
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Good point. Putting it back in the way goldfish had it
 
BeepSmile said:
-[X] If they have any maps that are trustworthy, buy them for a fair price (use mind reading/zone of truth to find out what 'fair' actually is) (if this is above 200 gold, pay maximum of 200 gold and take maps)
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I'm sorry, dude, but this really bothers me. It's not just silly, it's completely ridiculous. You don't buy shit from people who just tried to rob you. They stole 5000 gold from Urgor and a virtually priceless relic of his people.

BTW, we only have 342 gold right now. What if these people are only carrying 100 gold between them? Or maybe even 400? You're voting to leave them all of that, but then pay them more than half our remaining funds for maps of dubious usefulness?
 
They are a 5 to 6 lvl party, the laws of the universe physically prohibit them from carrying less than a certain value. :V

We are not trying to create a formula here, only specify the manner in which we are leaving them the gold or whatever valuables we choose, and set a reasonable limit on that.

If they don't have 100 gold in valuables between them, I don't think they are carrying Aroden's personal treasure map with his autograph on it.
 
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Goldfish said:
I'm sorry, dude, but this really bothers me. It's not just silly, it's completely ridiculous. You don't buy shit from people who just tried to rob you. They stole 5000 gold from Urgor and a virtually priceless relic of his people.

BTW, we only have 342 gold right now. What if these people are only carrying 100 gold between them? Or maybe even 400? You're voting to leave them all of that, but then pay them more than half our remaining funds for maps of dubious usefulness?
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Now that my giddy mood has worn off, that a good point. Changing to 'taking trustworthy maps if they have them'.
 
BTW guys I'll be on the road on Saturday so the update will not be until the evening and posting may slow down a little depending on holiday stuff. I'll try to keep it to one update per day, but writing time may be more scarce
 
Glad to see that this group seems to be another party that values its members.

@Goldfish don't forget to tie up bat too if possible.

[X] Goldfish
 
Massgamer said:
Glad to see that this group seems to be another party that values its members.

@Goldfish don't forget to tie up bat too if possible.
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Funnily enough that bat is also making use of Limited but Effective (TM) magical resources. It's been given a Bear's Endurance Potion which means it has 10 more HP than normal for its level, making it a much better grappler due to not being so fragile. I'm assuming one is not really meant to use a bat like that at this level with their negative Con modifier, but that's nothing some potions won't solve
 
DragonParadox said:
Funnily enough that bat is also making use of Limited but Effective (TM) magical resources. It's been given a Bear's Endurance Potion which means it has 10 more HP than normal for its level, making it a much better grappler due to not being so fragile. I'm assuming one is not really meant to use a bat like that at this level with their negative Con modifier, but that's nothing some potions won't solve
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So yeah, certainly tie it up!
 
@Goldfish we also use Looter's Satchel to use on shapeshifter if we want since she is unconscious. Maybe add to plan?
Looter's Satchel
Description: A large leather bag marked with smoldering runes and a few fades spotches of what might have once been blood before an alchemical cleaning
Ability: The satchel functions as a bag of holding (type I). Additionally, as long as the satchel is not overloaded, the bearer can hold it over an adjacent creature that is dead or unconscious and speak a command word. When the command word is spoken, the satchel removes any magic items from the creature's person (such as magic weapons and armor, potions, scrolls, and wondrous items) and deposits them into the bag. This process takes 1 uninterrupted round. If the bearer moves into a different space while the satchel is gathering items in this way, no items are moved into the satchel and the bearer must start the process over. If the satchel would become overloaded from the creature's magic items, it transports as many magic items as it can, from smallest to largest, until it would become overloaded, at which point it stops gathering items.
CL 9th Weight 15 lbs.; Aura moderate conjuration
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And can also act like a bit of intimidation, in that they better willingly hand over what they have or we can just knock them out or even kill them, should they try to resist, and get it that way, in order to make sure we get Urgor's ring back and its not hidden on any of their persons.
 
Massgamer said:
@Goldfish we also use Looter's Satchel to use on shapeshifter if we want since she is unconscious. Maybe add to plan?

And can also act like a bit of intimidation, in that they better willingly hand over what they have or we can just knock them out or even kill them, should they try to resist, and get it that way, in order to make sure we get Urgor's ring back and its not hidden on any of their persons.
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I figured that would just be part of the regular looting procedure at this point? They're not slipping anything past us between multiple people with Detect Magic.

The plan is already pretty long and specific, so I don't want to add more superfluous direction if I can help it.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 2, 2024 at 3:19 AM, finished with 52 posts and 6 votes.
  • [X] A path to survival
    -[X] Each of the thieves is to disarm themselves and allow Gorok to tightly bind their hands and feet, as well as binding their bat's wings and claws. Once they're bound, Gorok will also blindfold them with scraps of cloth. Cob will similarly deal with the unconscious shape shifter, though it might be wasted effort in her case. If he has an Iruxi net tucked away in our satchel, now is the time to use it. Any resistance will be dealt with fatally.
    -[X] Once the thieves are thoroughly incapacitated, we'll wake up Urgor. He's likely to be less murderous if he returns to consciousness to see the thieves captured.
    -[X] Quietly, Mina casts Heroism and Hermean Potential on Kori, and he casts Channel Vigor (for a total +25 or +27 Intimidate bonus). He then uses Intimidate, with Urgor providing assistance using Aid Another, to address the thieves. "I don't want to hold a grudge and there is already too much blood on my hands, unlike my good friend Master Urgor here, who nurses grudges like they're his own kin and would gladly decorate the forest with your entrails for the wrong you've committed against him." Kori pauses to gesture at the fuming Dwarf, allowing the man to interject if he wishes. "So that means you get a chance to live and let bygones be bygones. All you have to do is answer our questions truthfully. One lie and your chance for survival ends. It won't be much trouble to question your corpses, if it comes to that, just messier than we would prefer."
    --[X] "To help things along, we're going to use a bit of truthtelling magic and my witch friend's Hexes. Nothing harmful, I assure you. Do not resist the spells or Hexes, for your own continued well-being."
    -[X] Kori uses Shadow Enchantment to cast a Zone of Truth spell, and Mina will use her Evil Eye Hex on each of the thieves. She'll begin using Cackle to maintain the Evil Eye Hex for the duration of the interrogation. Kori also uses Detect Thoughts to examine the surface thoughts of each thief during the interrogation.
    --[X] While Kori rummages through their thoughts and pays attention for lies and obfuscation, Sirim demands their names, affiliations, organizations they belong to, where they heard about the expedition, what their plans were after stealing from us, who their contacts and fences are, their abilities, and intentions after we set them free. He'll also inquire about the fate of the slain mercenary guard, who was lost down by the river, and anything else he believes relevant. Assuming they answer satisfactorily, and were not responsible for the guard's death, we'll keep their magic items, along with any genuine maps, potions, poisons, or Alchemical goods they possess, but leave them the rest of their equipment and half their money or 400 gold (whichever leaves us with more).
    -[X] Before we leave them, after they are first all thoroughly bound together and to a sturdy tree, Mina uses her Healing Hex on each of them then targets them with a Web spell. It's wasteful, but insures they are taken out of circulation for a while, assuming they can escape their bonds in a reasonable amount of time. The Web should actually keep them relatively safe as well. Mina will then uses her Pass Without Trace SLA on everyone and we'll return to meet up with the expedition.
    [X] Robbing the robbers
    -[X] "We appreciate that you tried to solve this without bloodshed. And there's no reason to turn this into a massacre now."
    -[X] If one of our party comes from a culture that uses weregild, use that concept: "You tried to steal from us, so you have pay. That settles the matter. No side holds a grudge."
    -[X] Use Intimidate to dissuade them from revenge.
    -[X] Take some of their magical items. Don't leave them completely destitute, but take enough to cripple their ability to fight. The value should be at least equivalent to Mina's staff.
    -[X] Use Detect Thought to interrogate them about what they know about the caravan, how they learned it, etc.
    [X] A path to survival - gentle edits, + silly map purchase:
    -[X] Each of the thieves is to disarm themselves and allow Gorok to tightly bind their hands and feet. Once they're bound, Gorok will also blindfold them with scraps of cloth. Cob will similarly deal with the unconscious shape shifter, though it might be wasted effort in her case. If he has an Iruxi net tucked away in our satchel, now is the time to use it.
    -[X] Once the thieves are thoroughly incapacitated, we'll wake up Urgor. He's likely to be less murderous if he returns to consciousness to see the thieves captured.
    -[X] Quietly, Mina casts Heroism and Hermean Potential on Kori, and he casts Channel Vigor (for a total +25 or +27 Intimidate bonus). He then uses Intimidate, with Urgor providing assistance using Aid Another, to address the thieves. "I don't want to hold a grudge and there is already too much blood on my hands, unlike my good friend Master Urgor here, who nurses grudges like they're his own kin and would gladly decorate the forest with your entrails for the wrong you've committed against him." Kori pauses to gesture at the fuming Dwarf, allowing the man to interject if he wishes. "So that means you get a chance to live and let bygones be bygones. All you have to do is answer our questions truthfully. One lie and your chance for survival ends. It won't be much trouble to question your corpses, if it comes to that, just messier than we would prefer."
    --[X] "To help things along, we're going to use a bit of truthtelling magic and my witch friend's Hexes. Nothing harmful, I assure you. Do not resist the spells or Hexes, for your own continued well-being."
    -[X] Kori uses Shadow Enchantment to cast a Zone of Truth spell, and Mina will use her Evil Eye Hex on each of the thieves. She'll begin using Cackle to maintain the Evil Eye Hex for the duration of the interrogation. Kori also uses Detect Thoughts to examine the surface thoughts of each thief during the interrogation.
    --[X] While Kori rummages through their thoughts and pays attention for lies and obfuscation, Sirim demands their names, affiliations, organizations they belong to, where they heard about the expedition, what their plans were after stealing from us, who their contacts and fences are, their abilities, and intentions after we set them free. He'll also inquire about the date if the slain mercenary guard, who was lost down by the river. Assuming they answer satisfactorily, and were not responsible for the guard's death, we'll take their money (leaving them with 400 gold) and magic items, along with any potions, poisons, or Alchemical goods they possess, but leave them the rest of their equipment. This includes asking them about subtle magic items (rings/necklaces ect) or extradimensional spaces.
    -[X] If they have any maps that are trustworthy, take those too.
    -[X] If any of their enchanted items is of intense personal significance, or is intensely useful to their class specifically , but not very useful to the average adventurer (e.g. if the shifter's armour provides bonuses while transformed), then leave those.
    -[X]We'll also take a lock of hair, vial of blood, and fingernail clipping from each of them, more for continued intimidation and threat than any practical purpose (for now).
    -[X] We also ask them what know about the rumoured dragon up ahead, and other big threats they know of that the caravan should be wary of.
    [X] A path to survival - gentle edits, + silly map purchase:
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