Does gossiping in this case equate with plotting how to get even more brutal revenge on any Olympian stupid enough to actually come near while Herc and a few others get an unexplainable chill down their spine
Herk is a cool dude and doesn't afraid of anything.

Even Medea.
Bravely ran away because he's not stupid...even women he didn't personally piss off are very good reasons to head for the hills.

Sure, they aren't quite up to the jealous insanity of Hera, but considering their reputation, that's not a risk I think he'd be willing to take even with a potential pile of other lives.
"What dicks, those assholes."

"True, what dicks."

*Grunt*

"Present company excluded, of course."

*Approving grunt*

****

"Wait. So, the gist is, that he, more or less, cut my head because he's a momma boy?!"

*Grunt*

"Well that kinda didn't make sense!"

*Grunt*

"...I see. ...Maybe I'm biased."

*Shrug*

"Eh, nevermind. He even still likes... Jason, even after... You know...."

*Grunt*

"...Okay, fair point."
 
Gonna leave my two cents. While this story was promising in the beginning, despite it's quality technical writing and all around competence of the writer, I can't call this a really good story. It has good and consistent characterization for its main characters (with one glaring exception), it keeps up well with FGO more lighthearted moment, Mash is genuinely endearing and Ritsuka works as protagonist offering a nice contrast to the servants and Romani, Da Vinci. Mash and Ritsuka have genuine chemistry, Cu is interesting and Herk was just great. Nobu and Okita are on point, and you grasp their, and FGO events, brand of humour very nicely.

The main problem I have with this, however, can be summarise as: unfocused. It tries to do multiple plotlines at the same time, and even though they are not serious plotlines, they demand a lot more focus and thinking than what's been given to them, it plays around with humor, day to day shennanigans, some sweet romance, without actually commiting to/exploring any of those things in any significant manner.

Adding Kanna was an unwise choice, as she is now. She adds almost nothing to the story, her only role so far has been to serve as a contrast to Ritsuka or rehash some of Shirou's old plotlines. She's supposed to be charismatic, but we don't see that. Ever. The servants already like her and she does nothing you justify that. It's just stated as a fact and taken for granted. She's quirky? Okay. And what's the result of that? Nothing. In summary, Kanna is boring. Nothing she does or happens to her is interesting, new or relatable. Her issues aren't issues we can relate and she has very few moments where she changes things or is changed. I know what you wanted to do with this, the twins were supposed to be light hearted antagonistc contrasts that complemented each other. But its badly applied. The story would be better without her, by quite a bit, since she only detracts from the focus on better characters.

You reuse your favorite characters like Cu and Nobu/Okita and Archer over and over again in identical or nearly identical situations. I think this is pretty direct. These guys keep doing the same things over and over. It gets boring fast. Cu is the one that suffers the most, since he is never the main agent, he's always there to react in a Cu manner, which we can think 'oh, that's so Cu' and then promptly ignore him.

New routes or new Characters are rarely explored and a lot of time is spent shilling on the main characters to compensate the fact that we are never seeing them doing anything. Shilling, I have to say, while a minor problem is that one that annoys me the most. You spend so much time, telling us how X or Y is great, because of something or other, so much time, and you even repeat yourself, for no reason. We're never shown this competence, so it begs the question, if it doesn't matter enough to be shown, why talk about it? The most notorious example is how D'eon first PoV chapter is one long inner monologue shilling the main characters. It's D'eon chance to shine, and yet we finish that chapter knowing new nothing about them. The most constant shilling though, that baffles me, is Shirou/Rin/Artoria shilling. Like, you assume that we know FGO enough to start from the point that Mash and Ritsuka love each other, but not enough to know well the FSN protags?

These aren't structural problems. Just punctual problems that to me show that the author kind went on automatic when writing this. This isn't a bad fic, far from it, just unambitious and frankly, a little lazy at times. I feel that if you, the author, sat down and decided to do something really good, and drew an outline and commited to it, you would definitely do it. You got the knowledge and ability for it.
 
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It's D'eon chance to shine, and yet we finish that chapter knowing new nothing about them.

She's french, she's a gender bender, and she's up for a threesome. That's like three things. She's also a plotter, has great insight into people, and will likely get what she wants sooner or later. That's like six things now.

Not really arguing about the criticism. Just felt like pointing this out.
 
These aren't structural problems. Just punctual problems that to me show that the author kind went on automatic when writing this. This isn't a bad fic, far from it, just unambitious and frankly, a little lazy at times. I feel that if you, the author, sat down and decided to do something really good, and drew an outline and commited to it, you would definitely do it. Yougot the knowledge and ability for it.
The problem was that, FGO, by the virtue of the media, has lots and lots and lots of characters. Focusing on a character, or even a group of characters, would mean sacrifices others.

As for know, developing characters as a whole was done through interaction with others, which is slow, except if you write, like, 2 or 3k words a day. It is slow to develops, but there's no better way to do this.
 
She's french, she's a gender bender, and she's up for a threesome. That's like three things. She's also a plotter, has great insight into people, and will likely get what she wants sooner or later. That's like six things now.

Not really arguing about the criticism. Just felt like pointing this out.
Personally, I prefer to use Mr. Plinkett's rule to determine if a character is well rounded and memorable:
Describe the following character WITHOUT saying what they looked like, what kind of costume they wore, what powers or specific abilities they have, what their profession is, or what their role in the story or setting was. Describe them to me assuming I know nothing about their world or story or the other characters in it.
Regardless of the validity of Danjou's criticism of that chapter, I really don't think "being French", "being genderbent", and "up for a threesome" really work as character traits. Likewise, "she will get what she wants" looks less like a trait and more like a plot point (I would replace it with "she's driven/persistent/persevering").
 
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D'Eon is inquisitive, seductive (when they want to), likes to figure out puzzles (particularly when the puzzles are people), is good at keeping a low profile, has a sharp mind. 5 things not involving appearance, costume, powers, profession or story role.
 
D'Eon is inquisitive, seductive (when they want to), likes to figure out puzzles (particularly when the puzzles are people), is good at keeping a low profile, has a sharp mind. 5 things not involving appearance, costume, powers, profession or story role.
My point is not that these characteristics don't exist. Is that they play such an unimportant role, that they don't actually change anything and are just told you.

  • Inquisitive - You interfere that solely from the monologue, since D'eon isn't actually shown investigating things, nor trying to fit the puzzle together, or anything that would show that inquisitive mind. When D'eon is shown they already arrived at a conclusion, at most we get a small backtrack that tell us their rationalization for that conclusion. Case in point:
Is he a monster held back by his moral code? A good person taught that he must not stop at anything to fulfill his goals? Someone in between? d'Eon is not sure. The Saber, who has seen so many people, been so many people, does not know what Ritsuka Tohsaka is. He is an enigma. A living contradiction. A grouch, a joy, a monster, a hero, unceasing drive, frustrated failure, a day from becoming a nightmare, a constant bastion of sanity in this mad world. He is all of these things and more, at the same time. He is an enigma.

He... is interesting. Unique. A puzzle of a configuration that d'Eon had never encountered before, despite their lengthy career as a spy and infiltrator.
Where are any of these things shown? Are we shown these pieces? No. We're told them. None of these things play a role in the story. In fact, that story went to great lengths to show how relatable and despite everything, normal Ritsuka is.

Let's go by parts:

  • Seductive - The only instance they try to seduce someone its incredibly awkward and doesn't have any kind of satisfying resolution whatsoever. In fact, Ritsuka doesn't seem in D'eons pace at all, Ritsuka's just confused.
They head off before Ritsuka can say anything else, leaving him alone in the silence again. He thinks he saw the ghost of a smile, or the slightest flush on their cheeks, maybe even a skip in d'Eon's step as they left. It makes no sense to him. It must have been his eyes tricking him.

This happens distressingly often with him. He stands up, leaning against an upright section of his room's wall, trying to get a grip on himself.

"...Wait, d'Eon said threesome in french," he mutters, eyes widening slowly in realisation and shock. He looks up at the ceiling and frowns. "Huh..."

He sits there, not even caring that there is a giant hole in his wall at this hour of the day.

"...Dad, it's me. An androgynous french spy with the power to change their gender on demand has offered to partake in a threeway with me and my crush. Are you proud of me?"

There is no answer. Of course there wouldn't be, his father is dead with the incineration of humanity, and will be until he saves the timeline. But somehow, Ritsuka can feel his father's resigned, supportive nod.
This is more akin to Shirou's (inhuman, due to his warped nature) bafflement at some of his interactions with the girks in his life than a enthralled young man in an experienced seductive person's hand.

  • Likes to figure out puzzles (which is cop out since this is obviously the natural development of being inquisitive) - this is the sum of this characteristic:
...Well, maybe that's why d'Eon is interested, then. Ritsuka is an enigma who should have never joined Chaldea, let alone been someone this suited to be a Master. And yet he is. And he is wholly human – his family proves it.
Again, told, not shown. Why he should've never joined Chaldea? What of his characteristics make him unsuitable for it or just not a well enough fit for a program that self-admittedly were picking anyone that could be used as a tool to save humanity?

  • Is good at keeping a low profile - I... don't know where that came from, since D'eon's first actor as an important character in the story is this:
"I'm going to ask Ritsuka out."

The words come suddenly from the frenchman's mouth. Marie and Atalanta both turn to d'Eon, their eyes wide in surprise as the former spy sits at the countertop, elbows lazily resting on its surface. In the aspect of a woman, she glances at each of them, smiling knowingly.
Publicly babbling out you're gonna ask out your boss is not my definition of discrete.

Has a sharp mind - I mean, sure. D'eon just doesn't seem to use it in here, since they can't solve the main puzzle they propose it to themselves. And don't seem very focused on solving it in the first place. Hell, the main thing showing D'eons sharp mind is realizing how amazeawesome-superdifferent the protagonist it. Via inner monologue. Which we only see the conclusion and never the formation/picking up the pieces to achieve it.
 
Yes good, critique, now to respond to it! Thanks for the effort! Assume that any segment I don't respond to is something that I agree with, and have been mulling over in private.
Adding Kanna was an unwise choice, as she is now. She adds almost nothing to the story, her only role so far has been to serve as a contrast to Ritsuka or rehash some of Shirou's old plotlines. She's supposed to be charismatic, but we don't see that. Ever. The servants already like her and she does nothing you justify that. It's just stated as a fact and taken for granted. She's quirky? Okay. And what's the result of that? Nothing. In summary, Kanna is boring. Nothing she does or happens to her is interesting, new or relatable. Her issues aren't issues we can relate and she has very few moments where she changes things or is changed. I know what you wanted to do with this, the twins were supposed to be light hearted antagonistc contrasts that complemented each other. But its badly applied. The story would be better without her, by quite a bit, since she only detracts from the focus on better characters.
Kana is a bit of a difficult character to write, yeah. She started as Ritsuka's foil and then I thought 'hey, wouldn't it be funny if she and Shirou had the same element' and then it just kind of snowballed from there. She has moments that are coming up, but right now the problem with her is that she hasn't gotten any of her own scenes with people like Roman, or Leonidas, or whatever. It's very much a problem of complacency, yeah, which is why I'm taking this mini-hiatus to work on France.

New routes or new Characters are rarely explored and a lot of time is spent shilling on the main characters to compensate the fact that we are never seeing them doing anything. Shilling, I have to say, while a minor problem is that one that annoys me the most. You spend so much time, telling us how X or Y is great, because of something or other, so much time, and you even repeat yourself, for no reason. We're never shown this competence, so it begs the question, if it doesn't matter enough to be shown, why talk about it? The most notorious example is how D'eon first PoV chapter is one long inner monologue shilling the main characters. It's D'eon chance to shine, and yet we finish that chapter knowing new nothing about them. The most constant shilling though, that baffles me, is Shirou/Rin/Artoria shilling. Like, you assume that we know FGO enough to start from the point that Mash and Ritsuka love each other, but not enough to know well the FSN protags?

These aren't structural problems. Just punctual problems that to me show that the author kind went on automatic when writing this. This isn't a bad fic, far from it, just unambitious and frankly, a little lazy at times. I feel that if you, the author, sat down and decided to do something really good, and drew an outline and commited to it, you would definitely do it. You got the knowledge and ability for it.
This is also an issue, yeah. On one hand I do want to have the parents show up because that's just a ball of comedy on its own, but on the other hand I fear that their presence will consume the narrative? But I also want to write about them? It's a difficult thing for me, mmh. Also Saber hasn't done much but is also their aunt and is also King Arthur but bah.

It's very much an issue of writing on autopilot, yeah. I wrote the last bunch of chapters at work in between assignments and they aren't actually planned except a few days in advance, if at all. A few chapters were basically 'welp we're doing this now' as I looked at a blank document. The only Chapters that have actually been properly planned are the Singularity Chapters, which are more traditionally actiony and follow the main plot... but are also a bitch for me to rewrite to accommodate the inclusion of another Master. It's something to work on for sure.

D'Eon should probably get another chapter though. I keep meaning to include them in a Chapter for at least a moment or two but it just doesn't pan out. A lot of stuff gets left out for one reason or another, bluh.

This is definitely something to mull over, though. I was thinking about these issues for a while, but thanks for pointing it out!
 
So I just had a random thought. Should this story reach into EOR arc then a possible scene: Ritsuka after having to cross dress throughout all of Agartha, to avoid being hunted for being a guy, just loses it after hearing the bad guy's reasoning. Also possibility him losing it earlier and somehow conquering El Dorado Berserker. Highly unlikely but only way I can think of to get her interested in him.
 
Also possibility him losing it earlier and somehow conquering El Dorado Berserker. Highly unlikely but only way I can think of to get her interested in him.
"I AM THE PRETTIEST!! AND THE STRONGEST!! I CAN BE BOTH, AND SO WILL YOU!!!"

"B-But, Beauty is a-"

"IT'S NOT A GODDAMN WEAKNESS, YOU MUSCLEHEAD!!! I SAW BEAUTIFUL LADIES MAKES COUNTRIES GROW STRONG AND TORN ASUNDER BECAUSE THEIR BEAUTY!!! I SAW THE STRONGEST MEN FELL BY SEDUCTION!!! BEAUTY AIN'T WEAKNESS, IT'S A STRENGTH!!!"

"B-But that's-"

"I DEFEAT YOU BY STRENGTH, I DEFEAT YOU BY CUTENESS, YOU HAVE NO GODDAMN RIGHT TO COMPLAIN!! STAND, AND SERVE ME, CHAMPION OF AMAZON!! BE YOUR STRENGTH AND YOUR BEAUTY SERVE ME!!!"

"....You had Achilles in your rank?"

"No. But I got Atalanta, Medea, and Medusa."

"Fine enough. Are You My Master?"

[Naturally, everyone would never let Rits live it down]
 
So I just had a random thought. Should this story reach into EOR arc then a possible scene: Ritsuka after having to cross dress throughout all of Agartha, to avoid being hunted for being a guy, just loses it after hearing the bad guy's reasoning. Also possibility him losing it earlier and somehow conquering El Dorado Berserker. Highly unlikely but only way I can think of to get her interested in him.
Cmon, I would like to think at the very least the Amazon would be spared from harem shenanigans.

Actually, Agartha is actually pretty brutal with its explicit torture, slavery, and rape present. While the chapter tried to make itself more lighthearted by adding D'eon and Astolfo, I actually can't imagine Rits it Kanna having fun, especially when you've got Columbus in the picture, the only nonwhitewashed servant in the entire franchise.
 
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Columbus is sorta useful, he did stop a chocolate alien invasion recently in the Valentine event

he maybe a dick but like every other dick in Chaldea, Ritsu just gonna have to fine acceptable target to unleash him on
 
Cmon, I would like to think at the very least the Amazon would be spared from harem shenanigans.
No, she won't. But she can't escape cute shenanigans, or else we got Velber Mk. 2 on hands.

So, either we manipulate things so Ms. Rainbow Saber and Ms. I Hate Pretty Thingies would never met, or we just acclimatized her to cuteness early.

Pick your poison. :V
 
No, she won't. But she can't escape cute shenanigans, or else we got Velber Mk. 2 on hands.

So, either we manipulate things so Ms. Rainbow Saber and Ms. I Hate Pretty Thingies would never met, or we just acclimatized her to cuteness early.

Pick your poison. :V

Number 2 is easier to write (and has been already been done to a lesser degree to other characters) but having them explicitly try to avoid the two from meeting can be funny on its own.
 
Herc and Medea are friends. After shit went down with Jason he let her stay at his home and when the people of Thebes showed up to kick her out, he was ready to throw down with all of them to defend her. She chose to leave so he wouldn't have to kill them. In another version she healed him of another Hera sent but of madness and they became adventuring buddies.

Medusa has canonically stated that she's thankful to Perseus for killing Gorgon. Also that he was what Shinji could have been if he hadn't obsessed with Magecraft, the one thing he could never succeed at, and WAS NOT RAISED BY ZOUKEN.
 
I thought the discussion was about Penthesilea?

(Medusa also says in her FGO profile that "If [Perseus] comes I'll kill him", so...)
 
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Tbh, given her reaction to Achilles, I suspect her reaction to Hercules would be, mm...

... Like, the sort of loathing/anger you have at a worthy rival. I won't go full @Datcord with it, but there's still a gap between "someone who you loathe, but respect as a rival" and "someone who's totally broken the rules of the game you thought you were playing".

Point is, it's the sort of blood-knight anger that doesn't necessarily prevent them from working together or even getting along in a weird way.

Kismesissitude, for the Homestuck fans. Versus just platonic black.
 
Herc and Medea are friends. After shit went down with Jason he let her stay at his home and when the people of Thebes showed up to kick her out, he was ready to throw down with all of them to defend her. She chose to leave so he wouldn't have to kill them. In another version she healed him of another Hera sent but of madness and they became adventuring buddies.

Medusa has canonically stated that she's thankful to Perseus for killing Gorgon. Also that he was what Shinji could have been if he hadn't obsessed with Magecraft, the one thing he could never succeed at, and WAS NOT RAISED BY ZOUKEN.
I didn't say Medusa, I specifically said Gorgon.

Tbh, given her reaction to Achilles, I suspect her reaction to Hercules would be, mm...

... Like, the sort of loathing/anger you have at a worthy rival. I won't go full @Datcord with it, but there's still a gap between "someone who you loathe, but respect as a rival" and "someone who's totally broken the rules of the game you thought you were playing".

Point is, it's the sort of blood-knight anger that doesn't necessarily prevent them from working together or even getting along in a weird way.

Kismesissitude, for the Homestuck fans. Versus just platonic black.

I mean her ME makes it so she sees any Greek male as Achilles so....
 
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Medusa has canonically stated that she's thankful to Perseus for killing Gorgon. Also that he was what Shinji could have been if he hadn't obsessed with Magecraft, the one thing he could never succeed at, and WAS NOT RAISED BY ZOUKEN.
Which means Shinji could have been quite a badass if he didn't become obsessed with magic and became manipulated by Zoken.
 
Which means Shinji could have been quite a badass if he didn't become obsessed with magic and became manipulated by Zoken.
If he wasn't manipulated by anybody or at least guided by a decent person see Fate/Kalied liner where he became the Ainsworth's Assassin Install holder and was responsible for getting Sakura getting bathe in the mud in the same series we see a Shinji from Illya's world getting playfully bullied by Sakura of all people. Post UBW Shinji actually a decent person (probably due to almost getting killed)
 
Post UBW Shinji actually a decent person (probably due to almost getting killed)
Don't some fics attribute that to having Shinji's vestigial magic circuits forcibly awoken by having Illya's heart impanted by Gil, so he can finally put his academic knowledge of magecraft to actual use?

More seriously, I'd say that Shinji hit rock-bottom (re: sunk into severe depression), and only Sakura of all people (from his and Rin's perspective) was willing and able to try to forgive and/or forget.

And by 'decent', I'd say that he tones down the jerkass tendencies, not discards them. And in the name of keeping a separate face for the normies, he keeps up the smug playboy routine.
 
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Don't some fics attribute that to having Shinji's vestigial magic circuits forcibly awoken by having Illya's heart impanted by Gil, so he can finally put his academic knowledge of magecraft to actual use?

More realistically, I'd say that Shinji hit rock-bottom and/or sunk into severe depression, and only Sakura of all people (from his and Rin's perspective) was willing and able to try to forgive and/or forget.

Based on the look on Sakura's face in the anime version? I like to think he was made so helpless for just long enough that she got some kind of petty revenge that -alongside everything else he went through- made him realize the error of his ways. Course, I could be reading into a single facial expression way too much, but... eh.
 
Based on the look on Sakura's face in the anime version? I like to think he was made so helpless for just long enough that she got some kind of petty revenge that -alongside everything else he went through- made him realize the error of his ways. Course, I could be reading into a single facial expression way too much, but... eh.
The funny thing is that that's mostly how it went in the manga version of F/SN. After loosing Rider, not getting killed by Shirou and seeing Sakura still care for him made Shinji realize what a piece of shit he has been and had him turn a new leaf.
 
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