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Fate/Sunny Order (FGO)

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Taller Then Some said:
In fact, Artoria canonically bullies magic users not named Merlin. Especially Witches, judging by FSN.
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Deathwings said:
You mean like how Medea got her all nice and dressed up in UBW ? That sure was some bullying alright. :rolleyes:
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While her magic resistance is A, that's good enough to bully modern mages with their weaker magic. and while she can resist command spells unless 2 are used, the first one does require her active resistance as part of the deal.

Morgan is from a lostbelt where she kept the age of gods going and managed to convert Rhongominiad into part of her magecraft. so substantially more powerful than any mage in the 5th grail war, including medea by a noticeable margin.
 
Deathwings said:
Sure, the number of time Arturia beat Morgan is great. Unfortunately, most of those instances involved overcoming whatever curse, ploy or trick she sent against the Round Table after it had taken effect, not No Selling it.
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In Fate it took Achilles months of repeated attempts to Hector. By your logic, Hector gets a conceptual bonus against Achilles.

Deathwings said:
And then there are those instances where Morgan outright won, such as when she mind controlled Arturia into helping her conceive Mordred and got away with it clean.
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So that's one success out of, what a hundred failures?

Deathwings said:
Unfortunetally for Arturia, her very Legend shows that Morgan has successfully tricked and ensorcelled her several times and the Saber container does not provide her with her anti-witch Noble Phantasm.
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She doesn't need an anti witch noble phantasm.

Deathwings said:
You mean like how Medea got her all nice and dressed up in UBW ? That sure was some bullying alright. :rolleyes:
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Ah, yes. Look at the one time Medea had multiple command seals with which to order Artoria around, and completely ignore Medea's complete inability to harm Artoria under any other circumstances. Surely that's a good counter argument.
 
Deathwings said:
such as when she mind controlled Arturia into helping her conceive Mordred
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Slight correction, but this is the sum total of what we know of the events:
Character Material - Mordred said:
In Fate, actually a clone created by Morgan from Artoria. A homunculus, but also a rather complete son of Artoria. Morgan used sorcery to enchant Artoria, who had become a pseudo male, extracted sperm and developed it in her own ovary.
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The wording brings to mind something like enchanted sleep and taking what she wants while Artoria is unconscious, rather than your scenario.
 
Sinsystems said:
Morgan's NP gets a bonus against Round Table servants, so I'd assume so.
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this Morgan has these benefits from her lostbelt, possibly by her unquestioned rule in her lostbelt, along with the fact she was killing the KotR summoned from Proper human history and using the remains of their Saint Graphs to construct her Fairy Knight versions, like how her Hell hound got Numeral of the Saint, etc.

edit: realized I'd typed merlin instead of Morgan by mistake, corrected it
 
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Wasn't it Morgan's machinations that were the root of the fall of Camelot? I feel like that could warrant a metaphysical advantage over members of the Round Table. After all, you could argue that they beat her several times, but in the end she ended them.
 
Taller Then Some said:
In Fate it took Achilles months of repeated attempts to Hector. By your logic, Hector gets a conceptual bonus against Achilles.
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Considering that in Grand Order if you have Hector and Achilles Achilles basically runs away from Hector screaming "ONE TIME WAS ONE TIME TOO MANY!", yes.

Impstar said:
Wasn't it Morgan's machinations that were the root of the fall of Camelot? I feel like that could warrant a metaphysical advantage over members of the Round Table. After all, you could argue that they beat her several times, but in the end she ended them.
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What of the three you're talking about, Morgaine, Morgause or Morgan?

Yes, the 'modern' Le Fay is a conflation of three different women, surprise?
 
MWKillKenny84 said:
Considering that in Grand Order if you have Hector and Achilles Achilles basically runs away from Hector screaming "ONE TIME WAS ONE TIME TOO MANY!", yes.



What of the three you're talking about, Morgaine, Morgause or Morgan?

Yes, the 'modern' Le Fay is a conflation of three different women, surprise?
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In Fate they are the same person, which is ultimately what matters for this particular discussion.
 
Impstar said:
In Fate they are the same person, which is ultimately what matters for this particular discussion.
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Considering that (IIRC) Gawain, one of her onw children (from PHH too, mind you), said that Morgan always gave the impression of 'being three women in a single body' (Witch, Princess, Priestess IIRC), I suspect that aspect of the Arthurian Mythos has been considered too.
 
MWKillKenny84 said:
Considering that (IIRC) Gawain, one of her onw children (from PHH too, mind you), said that Morgan always gave the impression of 'being three women in a single body' (Witch, Princess, Priestess IIRC), I suspect that aspect of the Arthurian Mythos has been considered too.
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Which makes for a rather interesting parallel with the trio of Celtic goddesses collectively known as the Morrigan.
 
MWKillKenny84 said:
Considering that in Grand Order if you have Hector and Achilles Achilles basically runs away from Hector screaming "ONE TIME WAS ONE TIME TOO MANY!", yes.
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Achilles: "Says fighting Hector would be troublesome... Only to immediately start chasing after Hector screaming for him to hold still so he can stab him because Hector threw a rock at him."

You somehow: See Achilles is terrified of Hector and refuses to fight him because once was enough.
 
Impstar said:
Wasn't it Morgan's machinations that were the root of the fall of Camelot? I feel like that could warrant a metaphysical advantage over members of the Round Table. After all, you could argue that they beat her several times, but in the end she ended them.
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It's arguable. Morgan's actual plots (the breaking of Caliburn, stealing Avalon, Agravain, Mordred) didn't have the impacts she wanted them to have. Her two minions actually defected and joined the side of Artoria.

There are many elements of the fall that were outside her control: natural disasters as Mystery dwindled, the failure of using the grail to save Britain, the infidelity, the departure of some KOTR, Agravain dying, the Roman campaign, Mordred rebelling for reasons unrelated to Morgan's, etc. Add to that that Camelot was always supposed to fall. All of it makes Morgan, while an element of the fall, fairly far from being the root cause.
MWKillKenny84 said:
Considering that (IIRC) Gawain, one of her onw children (from PHH too, mind you), said that Morgan always gave the impression of 'being three women in a single body' (Witch, Princess, Priestess IIRC), I suspect that aspect of the Arthurian Mythos has been considered too.
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First, it was Kay.

Second, I always felt this passage was always way overthought:
Garden of Avalon said:
And Morgan. How did such a fine lady become such a frightening thing? Just when it seemed as if she had the innocence of a fairy, she became as magnificent as a warrior maiden, and then suddenly possessed the brutality of a witch. If you ask me, it's as if there were three women inside of her.
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It looks more like a turn of phrase to describe her changing moods than some secret lore. Heck, Lancelot's chapter was the one with the Morgan lore.
 
all fictions said:
It's arguable. Morgan's actual plots (the breaking of Caliburn, stealing Avalon, Agravain, Mordred) didn't have the impacts she wanted them to have. Her two minions actually defected and joined the side of Artoria.

There are many elements of the fall that were outside her control: natural disasters as Mystery dwindled, the failure of using the grail to save Britain, the infidelity, the departure of some KOTR, Agravain dying, the Roman campaign, Mordred rebelling for reasons unrelated to Morgan's, etc. Add to that that Camelot was always supposed to fall. All of it makes Morgan, while an element of the fall, fairly far from being the root cause.
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Stealing Avalon is what made Artoria's death a possibility at all. Agravain did betray her, but Morgan let Mordred join Artoria, and having raised Modred with the idea that she was meant to be Artoria's heir all the while knowing Artoria would never actually make Mordred her heir, she set up Mordred betraying Camelot. Also I'm not sure if Fate-her did this, but in some Arthurian legends she was behind the revelation of Gwenivere's infidelity.

I'd argue that she is the root of Camelot's destruction. Her plots made it a possibility, and Mordred was her weapon.
 
On the topic of Saber, I had a (crack) idea: us readers know Ritsuka Tohsaka is chosen as the Tohsaka heir by Rin, so no question about his parentage. Kana though? Yeah she's lewd, but that's probably just Shirou's Eroge Protagonist genes. She mainly takes after her father, which got me thinking: are we sure Rin is her mother and not Saber? Saber couldn't dematerialize in FSN, so she has a physical body as opposed to a Servant one made of mana.

This is pure crack idea though, since if Kana is actually Saber's daughter instead, she probably would be so much more gifted when it comes to Swording things she wouldn't be conflicted about being mediocre as a magus. Though I'm chuckling at how might Mordred take the idea that her Chichiue had another kid, let alone said progeny being her Master ^.^; :p
 
Taller Then Some said:
Achilles: "Says fighting Hector would be troublesome... Only to immediately start chasing after Hector screaming for him to hold still so he can stab him because Hector threw a rock at him."

You somehow: See Achilles is terrified of Hector and refuses to fight him because once was enough.
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*cough*
Icipall said:
The Chaldea conga line.

First is Hector, running away from Achilles cause he doesn't want a rematch, followed by Achilles who's trying to explain to him that he doesn't want to fight, then followed by Penthesilea who noticed Achilles running around, followed by Ritsuka who's trying to calm the situation down, followed by Mash trying to help her Senpai, and finally Leonidas, who just likes the exercise.
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:V
 
Random couple question in relation to the series, Specifically Rags:

1. What is Rags' full name?
2. What's his personality like
3. We wouldn't know his father right? as in it wouldn't be anyone we would have met from the El Molloi Case files or something, right?

I know he's Lluvia's Son, and i at least don't remember hearing him having a sibling.
 
if this ever reach EoR, let hope he show up for a visit
 
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