[Exalted, ?] Most High

It's mostly the whole "row row row fight the powah!" people profess -- only to completely flinch away from the reincarnation option and say things like "the old must give way to the new" and "it is a law of creation and myth".

I don't really get the point of professing to go against the world if your ideals say so... except when it comes to continuity. Then suddenly "what the world says" becomes important.

Also, Heartlessness 10. Why are people picking 3 options?
Like I said in my vote, if the option to play as Odyssial newly awakened in the Second Age was presented alongside playing as Uly, I'd probably go for it.

But choosing that when we could instead have Ody construct the most masterful super-fortress ever designed, or something equivalent in power to the Great Curse instead?

Too much shiny, dude.
 
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[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Fairest


Lathe option seems a bit on the dangerous side.
 
Not if he succeeds!

That's (part of) what I've been saying; your mind draws some kind of separation at death. You don't acknowledge an Odyssial who manages to beat death.

It's a way for Odyssial to keep trying. An Odyssial who spent time and effort on reincarnation, is one who could still reach even greater heights. But you don't seem to want to go reach for those heights.
He's already beaten death and ensured he receives his own Exaltation, though. That safety net for failure already exists; despite his death in the Usurpation, he'll persist, even if he does so as Ulyssian. With than in mind, I see it as more in-character for him to exercise that determination while he's still alive by levying a curse against all his fellow Exalts, raising the greatest fortress Creation has ever seen or will ever see, doing things of that nature. Planning to fight and win, not mitigate his losses.
 
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... But the Odyssial who devotes time and effort to reincarnation is explicitly less great and terrible.

My objections to reincarnation have nothing to do with morality.

EDIT: Put another way -- do you want to punch Death in the face?

Do you want to see an Odyssial who so thoroughly beat and broke every law in the setting that he managed to beat death itself?

You don't want to go for the character who defies one of the most basic rules of the setting?

You're not willing to risk some of the fame in the First Age, in order to be known as the guy who bested death?
My objections to reincarnation have nothing to do with morality.
I know they don't -- I was drawing a comparison.

People argue with you over how far they want to push power and sociopathy, and their arguments given sometimes tend to come from morality. And you've, you know, generally gone "pfft, morality?" in all the games I've seen.

Here, I see you as arguing against power and greatness, except where others used morality to argue against you you're using something else.


So I'm drawing a comparison; if you're willing to argue against the most possible power and greatness here and now (for reasons that seem unclear and confusing to me), then all those times in which you clash with people over morality and dismiss their morality-based arguments...

Well, the way I see it, you don't really have a leg to stand on anymore. If you can argue against maximum greatness because... because, then if other people want to oppose your goals except based on the platform of morality, then you don't really have a place to complain about that.

You never wanted to stop or lessen power, and seemed to hold a poor view of anybody who brought up morality as an argument. Yet now, to my eyes, you're contradicting your own values for no reason I can comprehend.
 
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[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Fairest


Lathe option seems a bit on the dangerous side.
that the whole point.

Odyssial doing his most bullshit feat in exalted. Something so bullshit, it is engrained into all exalts shards and create fear for those who see odyssial and his reincarnation. Something that have permament effect on Creation and the people that lives on it.

It's changes HISTORY. FOREVER.
 
[X] Thrown
[X] Lore
Thrown mainly because it fits Odyssian, it establishes a massive advantage in the opening of the battle, from range or ambush. Thrown's burst damage is quite simply unsurpassed for the same investment.

Lore, as already previously argued, a massive boon, between the movement of motes, willpower and injuries, the wyld shaping power since we went that route, the ability to Teach not just mortals, but other Exalts to be badass like me(3e lore training charms mean investing an amount of xp into it, which everyone affected can spend for upgrades...after which you roll to determine if you got back the same, lessrr or greater amount of xp), the ability to anticipate and predict so well that prediction becomes reality...and of course, more tactical knowledge.

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.

[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning

The City...I think is valuable for preserving support. It means in the most dire straits, the Sidereals and Lunars will look to the prospect of the eternal god emperor reborn...and consider it not such a bad thing, compared to the end of all things. He was mad, but unlike all others, mad in a constructive, contained manner

Reincarnation planning meanwhile prepares all the assets, from his point of view, ensuring continuity of self is critical, but at the same time ensuring continuity of resources is no less so. He knows he has many enemies, who would try to take advantage of his reincarnation to enact revenge or simply take control of him.
By preparing for his reincarnation, the future is preserved, as his reincarnation would be well armed in knowledge, skills, allies and panoply. The only thing uncertain is his Will. But it would be His own choice whether to take up the resolve of his past self.
That is far more acceptable than leaving his greatness to be erased by Lethe. Whether the reincarnation is Odyssial himself or more like a son, he deserves the totality of his inheritance.


As for the Lathe, the mystery shiny would appeal more if I knew anything about it at all.
 
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Well, Rihaku did explicitly say that it's not erasing Ulyssian, but rather more of a fusion...without Odyssial overwhelming Ulyssian.

Garlak has made a convincing enough argument for carrying things on that I'm interested. Beating death is supposed to be impossible. It is one of the literally most impossible things that can be done in Exalted. Also, I feel like choosing all of these pre-Usurpation relationships is kind of pointless if we're not going to actually, you know...reincarnate? Get our plot hooks out of them, at least. Admittedly, I didn't vote for them, but we've gone this far, we might as well stick with it.

[X] The Fairest
[X] The Lathe of Heaven
[X] Reincarnation Planning


As for the Fairest+Lathe, I like the sound of striking fear into the hearts of the Exalted. Alongside the ultimate fear in the hearts of everyone who opposes us, it's more permanent than a bigass tower, no matter how cool. Admittedly, I am totally okay with a bigass tower of badassery and wouldn't mind voting for it with some decent argument, but there you go.
 
Basically, if you're going to draw the line here, then you don't get to bitch at us for not wanting "max power, max greatness!" when you were willing to stop at a certain level of greatness.

Any arguments you make along the lines of "Don't you want to be the greatest [character]?" (both here and in games in general) get undermined because you yourself had a point at which you were willing to stop.
 
[X] Double the reward of fanwork XP for the entire game
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning
[X] Dodge
[X] Occult



In other words, yes, a "Perfect Reincarnation" will mean we're not playing as Sesus Ulyssian anymore, but Odyssial Reborn.
Gee, I wonder what else he's said:
Just to be clear, even a perfectly reincarnated Odyssial does not have ALL of Odyssial's memories. He does not even have most of them, nor would he 'overwrite' Ulyssian's memories. If you add information to a person, does he change? Yes. Does he become someone else entirely? That is difficult to say. Odyssial reincarnating perfectly will not remove Ulyssian's memories, nor will it bury them under Odyssial's own emotions. It would be more like a fusion, with opportunities to pick up more of Odyssial's memories as the story advanced.

FU - SION - HAAA!
 
that the whole point.

Odyssial doing his most bullshit feat in exalted. Something so bullshit, it is engrained into all exalts shards and create fear for those who see odyssial and his reincarnation. Something that have permament effect on Creation and the people that lives on it.

It's changes HISTORY. FOREVER.

Not sure it would change history for the better. Last thing celestial exalts need is another great curse equivalent
 
Basically, if you're going to draw the line here, then you don't get to bitch at us for not wanting "max power, max greatness!" when you were willing to stop at a certain level of greatness.

Any arguments you make along the lines of "Don't you want to be the greatest [character]?" (both here and in games in general) get undermined because you yourself had a point at which you were willing to stop.
We have different definitions of greatness, it seems. I don't view planning for failure to be at all glorious when, as I previously said, we have already beaten death. Especially not if that comes at the cost of building the fucking Tower of Babel or wielding a N/A Artifact Blade forged from the severed fates of our slain enemies, or cursing the entirety of the Exalted host to live in fear of us. In the face of these things, what are a spare handful of memories worth? We already have continuity of consciousness, which is the most important part of reincarnation, hands down.
 
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[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Lathe of Heaven
[X] Reincarnation Planning


Fusion reincarnation sounds cool.
Peerless City over The Fairest because while the Fairest is a very strong trump card, I'll want something a tad more tangible and realistic to get. Plus....there's a possibility of finishing the Peerless City, and then we can go 1 v 1 me creation! Yep.
 
We have different definitions of greatness, it seems. I don't view planning for failure to be at all glorious when, as I previously said, we have already beaten death. Especially not if that comes at the cost of building the fucking Tower of Babel or wielding a N/A Artifact Blade forged from the severed fates of our slain enemies, or cursing the entirety of the Exalted host to live in fear of us. In the face of these things, what are a spare handful of memories worth? We already have continuity of consciousness, which is the most important part of reincarnation, hands down.
Er, we don't, actually. We don't have continuity of consciousness unless we take the "plan for reincarnation" option; at least that was my understanding?

Plus, this just means that you can build the Tower of Babel later on. Whereas in the First Age it was never finished; but in the 2nd Age, an age yet to come, it might very well be.
 
[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Lathe of Heaven
[X] The Fairest
 
Er, to me it looked like Rihaku was arguing against a "Ulyssian gets deleted by Odyssial" interpretation of reincarnation; he was saying that if Reincarnation succeeds, you get a Fusion-Ha! rather than some kind of overwhelmingness.
... Yes. Yes, we fucking do.
Um, I read that the exact opposite of the way you did, actually... That that is what happens if and only if the Reincarnation plot succeeds.

@Rihaku can you clarify on this?
 
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Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning
No. of votes: 3

Vanguard_D, CharlBaal, Pipeman

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Lathe of Heaven
[X] The Fairest
[X] The Peerless City
No. of votes: 1

1986ctcel

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Fairest
No. of votes: 2

Tylonius, Brekouh

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning
No. of votes: 2

Unelemental, inawarminister

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Lathe of Heaven
[X] The Fairest
No. of votes: 7

Cavalier, TheOtherSandman, Elero, Deadly Snark, cyberswordsmen, Serous, nairit

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Lathe of Heaven
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning
No. of votes: 9

EnderofWorlds, LordOfMurder, AZATHOTHoth, Delwgun, a11behringer, Ridiculously Average Guy, Da Boyz, Mannan, vel10

[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Lathe of Heaven
[X] The Fairest
No. of votes: 1

Alectai

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Lathe Of Heaven
[X] The Fairest
No. of votes: 3
shibosho, Wander, Gaudy Guise

[X] Dodge - Somewhat increases defensive prowess. If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a bolt. Since you already have Melee, this will likely not see investment until much later in the game. However, it is very nice to have, to deal with the occasional unblockable attack which could otherwise ruin your day. Additionally, you will likely see flurrybreakers and other such miscellaneous defensive options in this tree.
No. of votes: 1
Usernames

[X] Thrown
[X] Lore
No. of votes: 2

Orm Embar, trekbook

[X] Thrown - A long-ranged engagement option focused on dealing colossal burst damage early on. Likely will synergize extremely well with Stealth. Carries on Odyssial's legacy of slings and throwing knives, the weapons of a more brutal and primeval time.
[X]Lore
No. of votes: 1
Robotninja

[X] Double XP for the entire game
[X] The Peerless City
No. of votes: 1

Guile

[X] The Lathe of Heaven - Infinite Singularity Husk heebie-jeebies aside, this definitely does seem like the culmination of his personal growth, and gives us the championship belt on scaring the shit out of everybody (with The Fairest) . I am, obviously, not entirely sure exactly the completed version is, it could be anything from the Primordial Malfeas lives in Malfeas, bordered by Cecylene thing as applied to Odyssial (Inner-soul planet?), to the kind of weapon that makes the Sword of Creation look like a dagger, hell, it might be, as speculated, his answer to the Great Curse. The important part to me, at least, is Effects will be world-shaking. Monumental. This is exactly the sort of thing I see him doing.
[X] The Fairest - This seems like a wonky ride. I can't see him not fighting in this tourment, were it to be held, and the prior warning of the Usurpation is an incredibly interesting side effect. The sword is also pretty sweet, as is completing the Crown of Fear. This one seems like a bit of a grab bag of cool effects, even though as stated its unlikely to come to any real fruition. I like Odyssial having the additional human connection, and the idea that his last days weren't completely terrible and locked in limit break. Even if it reinforces reincarnation I think the other pieces swing me towards liking it.
[X] Dodge - Defense wins in Exalted (immovable object trumps unstoppable force), and doubling Seven Shadow Evasion with Heavenly Guardian Defense is just wtf overboard on perfects, but should cover us from most circumstances. Even if we don't mechanically follow things core (who knows what 3e core is, even), I think doubling down on defense and sticking with melee (especially with the ubersword) is probably the play here.
[X] Lore - Just absolutely bonkers. Between Lore and War you can take vanilla mortals and make them into godly anythings, which is perfect for the role that it looks like we're shaping up to take. I am slightly biased by game mechanics here, though. This also gives us easier access to the ability to tame the Wyld. From a story perspective I could definitely be swayed into taking survival or performance.
No. of votes: 1
Xsi

[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning
No. of votes: 1
Garlak

[X] Dodge

[X] Bureaucracy
No. of votes: 1
afterthought53

[X] Dodge

[X] Lore
No. of votes: 1
Destrark

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Lathe Of Heaven
[X] The Fairest
[X] Dodge
[X] Lore
No. of votes: 1
me.me.here

[X] Double the reward of fanwork XP for the entire game.
No. of votes: 1
Fumbles

[X] Dodge
[X] Sail
No. of votes: 1
Savonarola

[X] Thrown
[X] Lore
[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning
No. of votes: 1
veekie



[X] Double the reward of fanwork XP for the entire game
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning
[X] Dodge
[X] Occult
No. of votes: 1
Dark Lord Bob

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Lathe of Heaven
[X] Reincarnation Planning
No. of votes: 1
sithmor
 
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[X] Double the reward of fanwork XP for the entire game
More experience for Ulyssian is very nice indeed.

[X] The Fairest
I want that sword, and also that surrogate little sister that tempers Odyssial's heartlessness.

[X] Thrown
[X] Lore
 
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Er, to me it looked like Rihaku was arguing against a "Ulyssian gets deleted by Odyssial" interpretation of reincarnation; he was saying that if Reincarnation succeeds, you get a Fusion-Ha! rather than some kind of overwhelmingness.
He was, but he was doing it by saying they're already the same consciousness to begin with, disregarding other shenanigans. A similar phenomenon existed in the Odyssey, where Ulyssian already possessed Odyssial's attributes and appearance despite lacking the memories and even having a different Exaltation type; it's because they have the same soul, a soul which Odyssial programmed his Exaltation to seek out.
 
Yuck, votecount is a mess. I can also do the Individual Votes too. That's votes without 'plans.'
Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
No. of votes: 32
Vanguard_D, 1986ctcel, Tylonius, CharlBaal, Unelemental, Cavalier, TheOtherSandman, EnderofWorlds, Elero, Deadly Snark, LordOfMurder, cyberswordsmen, shibosho, AZATHOTHoth, Delwgun, a11behringer, Wander, Ridiculously Average Guy, Pipeman, Da Boyz, Gaudy Guise, Serous, me.me.here, Mannan, inawarminister, Brekouh, veekie, sithmor, nairit, Usernames, afterthought53, Thomasfoolery

[X] Double the reward of fanwork XP for the entire game.
No. of votes: 4
Fumbles, Dark Lord Bob, Anasurimbor, Guile

[X] The Peerless City
No. of votes: 19
Vanguard_D, 1986ctcel, Tylonius, CharlBaal, Unelemental, Alectai, shibosho, Wander, Pipeman, Guile, Gaudy Guise, me.me.here, inawarminister, Brekouh, veekie, sithmor, afterthought53, dragon, Bozweiveil

[X] The Fairest
No. of votes: 38
Vanguard_D, 1986ctcel, Tylonius, CharlBaal, Unelemental, Cavalier, TheOtherSandman, EnderofWorlds, Elero, Deadly Snark, Alectai, LordOfMurder, cyberswordsmen, shibosho, AZATHOTHoth, Delwgun, a11behringer, Wander, Ridiculously Average Guy, Pipeman, Da Boyz, Garlak, Gaudy Guise, Serous, me.me.here, Mannan, inawarminister, Brekouh, veekie, vel10, Dark Lord Bob, nairit, Anasurimbor, Usernames, Xsi, afterthought53, Thomasfoolery, dragon, Bozweiveil

[X] Reincarnation Planning
No. of votes: 24
Vanguard_D, CharlBaal, Unelemental, EnderofWorlds, LordOfMurder, AZATHOTHoth, Delwgun, a11behringer, Ridiculously Average Guy, Pipeman, Da Boyz, Garlak, Mannan, inawarminister, veekie, vel10, Dark Lord Bob, sithmor, Usernames, afterthought53, Thomasfoolery, dragon, Bozwevial

[X] The Lathe of Heaven
No. of votes: 26
1986ctcel, Cavalier, TheOtherSandman, EnderofWorlds, Elero, Deadly Snark, Alectai, LordOfMurder, cyberswordsmen, shibosho, AZATHOTHoth, Delwgun, a11behringer, Wander, Ridiculously Average Guy, Da Boyz, Gaudy Guise, Serous, me.me.here, Mannan, vel10, sithmor, nairit, Usernames, Xsi, Thomasfoolery

[X] Thrown
No. of votes: 6
Orm Embar, trekbook, veekie, Robotninja, Thomasfoolery, Bozweiveil

[X] Lore
No. of votes: 9
Orm Embar, Robotninja, trekbook, Destrark, me.me.here, veekie, Xsi, Thomasfoolery, Bozweiveil

[X] Dodge
No. of votes: 7
afterthought53, Destrark, me.me.here, Savonarola, Dark Lord Bob, Usernames, Xsi, afterthought53

[X] Bureaucracy
No. of votes: 1
afterthought53

[X] Sail
No. of votes: 3
Savonarola, Usernames, EnderofWorlds

[X] Occult
No. of votes: 1
Dark Lord Bob
 
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