[Exalted, ?] Most High

I want Ulyssian to make Odyssial's works his own and take them in a new direction, learning the lessons of the past without simply being an extension of it. A "Perfect Reincarnation" kind of screws that over, because it ensures that Odyssial basically gets another toss at the dice. Rather then an exceptional man, but still one of the Second Age, needing to take up that legacy and do what he will with it.
Also, in a somewhat hilarious twist of events, it essentially means the Immaculate doctine on the Anathema is correct for once. A perfectly reincarnated Odyssial really is an ancient monster wearing another's skin; or if that's not the case, it's only because his skin was never his in the first place.

You don't want to prove the Immaculates right, do you?
 
Oh shit. He gives his limit break to all his soldiers and people in his kingdom.

AN NATION OF LITERAL ODYSSIALS. With solars, lunars, sidereals, dragon-blood, mortal and gods with the same limit break. 1,000,000 + Odyssials.

Oh how did usurption even happened?
Well. In this case the Exalted would actually notice. And upon realizing "Odyssial can mess with our Essence Shards" NOPE the fuck out, and do everything they could to prevent it from happening.

Assuming I'm right of course.
 
I think the main fears people have over reincarnation is the belief that Odyssial's actions and personality will overwrite Ulyssian's, but it has already been stated that it is not going to happen, certainly Ulyssian's personality will be changed, but he will not become Odyssial, he will simply gain acess to Odyssial's memories and experience, which is not a bad thing.

[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Lathe of Heaven
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning


We don't really need such a fortress, plus the reincarnation plan can be explained in character as Odyssial's fear of the Exalted Host falling apart, and hedging his bets just in case he loses.
 
I think the main fears people have over reincarnation is the belief that Odyssial's actions and personality will overwrite Ulyssian's, but it has already been stated that it is not going to happen, certainly Ulyssian's personality will be changed, but he will not become Odyssial, he will simply gain acess to Odyssial's memories and experience, which is not a bad thing.
A perfectly reincarnated Odyssial considers himself to be Odyssial.
 
Holy shit. That's a massive change. Even more than I expected.
Additionally, since the Infinite Singularity Husk still exists, we must assume other small factors from the Odyssey exist.

Namely, this statement right here.

In other words, yes, a "Perfect Reincarnation" will mean we're not playing as Sesus Ulyssian anymore, but Odyssial Reborn.
Once again, reread the option for reincarnation prep. We're going to have some control over that.
 
We don't really need such a fortress, plus the reincarnation plan can be explained in character as Odyssial's fear of the Exalted Host falling apart, and hedging his bets just in case he loses.
We don't need a fortress. You are quite right in that regard; we need The Fortress. A monument to our glory, an invincible citadel for an invincible general, a living reminder of the glorious past. There is a certain thematic appeal to it as well; Nimrod dared to surpass the heavens, much as we have ourselves surpassed the Unconquered Sun. If we are truly the Most High, why do we rule in Creation, while he reigns in Yu-Shan? Clearly, this problem must be rectified, so in our efforts to prepare for the coming onslaught we decided to build a Tower that reached from one to the other.
 
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What's a massive change? He still implemented it in the previous canon, and he still never finishes it.
 
the Old must give way to the New.
Why? Who says so? The world? And why do you accept that?

Your very own vote chooses the Lathe; the choice that says "When the world and an ideal exist in disharmony, it is not the ideal that is wrong." It says that 'the way that things are is not the way that things must be.' It says that you would challenge what is.

And yet you don't feel comfortable with really challenging things. Just stick to the comfortable and acceptable ways to challenge the world, to rebel against the way that things are.
It's a law of myth and nearly a law of Creation as well.
What of it?
And again, I am Deeply uncomfortable with the idea that a dead man's dreams and desires will be carried on to another.
Why?
I want Ulyssian to make Odyssial's works his own and take them in a new direction, learning the lessons of the past without simply being an extension of it.
All that comes down to is "I want to play Ulyssian (as I imagine him to be)." It's just that you view playing Ulyssian as requiring leaving Odyssial abandoned.
A "Perfect Reincarnation" kind of screws that over, because it ensures that Odyssial basically gets another toss at the dice. Rather then an exceptional man, but still one of the Second Age, needing to take up that legacy and do what he will with it.
Still not really seeing the problem with this, in general.
 
@Rihaku is there a reason we only have one free pick by default for this era, when the previous ones both had two? Because I don't remember the update mentioning it, but everyone seems to be operating on that assumption.
 
Why? Who says so? The world? And why do you accept that?

Your very own vote chooses the Lathe; the choice that says "When the world and an ideal exist in disharmony, it is not the ideal that is wrong." It says that 'the way that things are is not the way that things must be.' It says that you would challenge what is.

And yet you don't feel comfortable with really challenging things. Just stick to the comfortable and acceptable ways to challenge the world, to rebel against the way that things are.

What of it?

Why?

All that comes down to is "I want to play Ulyssian (as I imagine him to be)." It's just that you view playing Ulyssian as requiring leaving Odyssial abandoned.

Still not really seeing the problem with this, in general.

It seems we'll have to agree to disagree. You want to max out the Odyssial track, I want Ulyssian to have a chance to be his own person. You believe that the only effective change will be to completely reincarnate him in mind, body, and soul into the Second Age, I believe our other adjustments will have significant ripple effects.

It's a fundamental difference in outlook I suspect, and we're just talking past each other at this point.
 
[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.

[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning
 
It seems we'll have to agree to disagree. You want to max out the Odyssial track, I want Ulyssian to have a chance to be his own person. You believe that the only effective change will be to completely reincarnate him in mind, body, and soul into the Second Age, I believe our other adjustments will have significant ripple effects.

It's a fundamental difference in outlook I suspect, and we're just talking past each other at this point.
I don't think it's the only effective change. Hell I'm pretty sure that lots of other stuff Odyssial did will echo through the ages!

And I don't think it's even a fundamental difference in outlook. From my perspective, you guys (but Orm especially) are being inconsistent according to your own professed values and goals.
 
I don't think it's the only effective change. Hell I'm pretty sure that lots of other stuff Odyssial did will echo through the ages!

And I don't think it's even a fundamental difference in outlook. From my perspective, you guys (but Orm especially) are being inconsistent according to your own professed values and goals.

Since when have I been inconsistent in my values and goals? I voted Fury, but I also Wrote In to neutralize the Heartlessness gain. I voted for Protector of the West and Conquering King, and lost the argument, I then turned to Subduer of the Wyld and further buffing our allies, and eked out a win.

I've always wanted to leave a legacy, rather then invest personal power in Odyssial and then attempt to transmigrate, if this was ever an ideal for me, I would have lobbied for Sorcerer.

Don't accuse me of inconsistency of all things, my desires have never changed, only the circumstances.
 
It's mostly the whole "row row row fight the powah!" people profess -- only to completely flinch away from the reincarnation option and say things like "the old must give way to the new" and "it is a law of creation and myth".

I don't really get the point of professing to go against the world if your ideals say so... except when it comes to continuity. Then suddenly "what the world says" becomes important.

Also, Heartlessness 10. Why are people picking 3 options?
 
I don't think it's the only effective change. Hell I'm pretty sure that lots of other stuff Odyssial did will echo through the ages!

And I don't think it's even a fundamental difference in outlook. From my perspective, you guys (but Orm especially) are being inconsistent according to your own professed values and goals.
I already addressed your issues regarding my not supporting reincarnation. To my mind, it both diminishes Odyssial's final hour by splitting his focus, and dilutes a character I am highly emotionally invested in. His is already Ulyssian's consciousness, to which his Exaltation is inexorably drawn. That is the case even without any additional effort on our part. His great works and achievements, like the Tower that I am currently attempting to whip the votes for and the curse afflicting all who knew him, will endure the passing of the centuries. We are hardly abandoning him; he is inevitably going to be central to the plot no matter what we do.

I do think it's somewhat silly for you to accuse me of voting inconsistently when you lack full knowledge of the ideology and goals driving my votes, honestly.
 
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[X] Pick an additional option from any epoch after the one you achieved Greatness 10, for free.
[X] The Peerless City
[X] The Fairest
[X] Reincarnation Planning
 
Meh, it's not like the masses give that much of a shit about what I have to say if the lack of likes I get is any indication.

Anyhow, I exhausted myself last night, I actually need to get a proper night's sleep now. G'night.
 
I already addressed your issues regarding my not supporting reincarnation. To my mind, it both diminishes Odyssial's final hour by splitting his focus, and dilutes a character I am highly emotionally invested in. His is already Ulyssian's consciousness, to which his Exaltation is inexorably drawn. That is the case even without any additional effort on our part. His great works and achievements, like the Tower that I am currently attempting to whip the votes for and the curse afflicting all who knew him, will endure the passing of the centuries. We are hardly abandoning him; he is inevitably going to be central to the plot no matter what we do.
Your arguments felt more like rationalizations than actually good arguments; to my eyes there's contradictions in what you said and what you vote for now, and your arguments do not address it IMO. Simple as that.

To be fair, all you'd need to do to achieve consistency would be to admit that some limits for Odyssial are fine. That's seriously all it'd take to not be inconsistent.

... It's just that if you admitted that, then your usual stance of opposing people who argue for "not the great and most terrible characters" on the basis of morality, would take a hit. Since you'd be admitting that sometimes it is fine to vote to set limits on somebody and not be as great as you could possibly be.

Hence, your posts have seemed like rationalizations to me.
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Meh, it's not like the masses give that much of a shit about what I have to say if the lack of likes I get is any indication.

Anyhow, I exhausted myself last night, I actually need to get a proper night's sleep now. G'night.
Dude, how many people are arguing in favor of Reincarnation?

You're not the only one who feels his arguments are alone.
 
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... It's just that if you admitted that, then your usual stance of opposing people who argue for "not the great and most terrible characters" on the basis of morality, would take a hit. Since you'd be admitting that sometimes it is fine to vote to set limits on somebody and not be as great as you could possibly be.
... But the Odyssial who devotes time and effort to reincarnation is explicitly less great and terrible.

My objections to reincarnation have nothing to do with morality.
 
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... But the Odyssial who devotes time and effort to reincarnation is explicitly less great and terrible.
Not if he succeeds!

That's (part of) what I've been saying; your mind draws some kind of separation at death. You don't acknowledge an Odyssial who manages to beat death.

It's a way for Odyssial to keep trying. An Odyssial who spent time and effort on reincarnation, is one who could still reach even greater heights. But you don't seem to want to go reach for those heights.
 
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