VanusDraco
Special Projects Division
- Location
- The Bottom Line
Well, I am actually convinced. Changing my vote to.
[X] Kill him, and use his carcass for something.
[X]The Guild
[X] Kill him, and use his carcass for something.
[X]The Guild
[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
-
- Tags
- exalted (white wolf)
I'd want him to tell us anything we wanted and swear comprehensive oaths of servitude. That would be a more equitable exchange to my mind. The info is pertinent, but so what? His life is more pertinent to him than that info is to us, and this is still all he gives up. So I have to conclude that it's best to just kill him, as trying to work with him is just not productive enough.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Second Edition has them a Charm that can do this.
Second Edition Lunars said:
In short, an ability to straight up be told one thing, hear another thing entierly. If there isn't a higher level ability that lets them make perfect lies by dint of "Well, I'm answering truthfully as far as I know it", then he's been mucking around.
Try to say "Tell me the whole truth, omitting nothing?" He just pops a similar Charm and goes "Okay, here's what I know (Spits load of bullshit that sounds convincing enough, but would lead us to disaster). And now I am free to go".
Tell him "Tell be the absolute truth?" "Well, I can hardly guarantee that, because there's a non-zero chance that I'm wrong".
Assuming he has any reasonable extrapolation of Lunar Magic from how we know it works, the chances of getting an actual useful, honest answer that won't cause more trouble then it solves is slim to none.
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We IC don't know that which makes it logical for Ulyssaon to get the info and hen kill him.
Also letting the 1000 yr old Lunar known for his cunning who even as he tries to sweet talk us plot his revenge is stupid. The next time he comes after us he won't come to us in our citadel while we have our allies around us.
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- Location
- The end of all things
Actually, Ragnar fucked up a bit here. Knowing that there's something odd about it is nearly as huge as knowing exactly what it is. If the answer is what I suspect it is, Lily is not going to like it one bit, either.
I'm currently favoring just killing him to be safe, but I might try to work on this anyway. See if I can get a decent plan. If not, well, it's still an omake. It suspect it will require flash-buying Flashing Ruse Prana, though.
I don't suppose that we can actually knock him out, can we? Is there a reliable way to tell if we have done so?
I'm just annoyed we didn't get Mists of Eventide as our control spell. It would have made this so easy.
- Location
- USA
Oaths to not lie, and lie detecting abilities.
You mean leas unique ability which was explicitly mentioned as being unique?
He doesn't stand a chance of hell of capturing her unless we are being a total idiot.
Even if he did, he has no chance of absconding with her.
There is no killbox, we are the killbox.
Him killing her is suicide, he is begging for his life, he is not going to commit suicide now.
Also, you guys seem to have completely forgot that nilul was faking being incompetent in combat.
These are insane paranoia plans that are utterly ridiculous. Here is what he might ACTUALLY do:
step 1: give us totally honest answers and not try to harm any of our followers here
step 2: be released and GTFO
step 3: undermine us by hitting our city in various ways whenever we are away, never getting close to us.
He MIGHT entertain a kidnapping or assassination of our allies like nilul during stage 3 if we stray too far from her. But he is not going to do it right next to us like a chump begging to be killed because if he was this much of a chump he wouldn't have survived this long.
Rihaku said:
Think you got that backwards. Stop fear mongering.
- Location
- The savanna.
First of all, that's a Second Edition Charm, so who knows whether that ability got translated to 3E. Secondly, I don't think we can so easily dismiss the benefits of what he has to offer by assuming that he'll lie anyway. That's kind of the point of the oaths. I mean, I'm all for getting the info and killing him, or just killing him if we can't... but the info is valuable and we're an amazing lie detector.
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- Location
- USA
Revenge for WHAT? And even if he was that much of a psycho (which is a stretch), he serves the bull, whom we might ally with, meaning we will not face any revenge from him as that will renege on the conditions of the alliance
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
No, in this encounter, he couldn't beat us a second time, and that's because we stacked so much initative that even a huge defense wouldn't have been enough to avoid death.
That doesn't mean he can't come back, study what he learned, and come up with a countermeasure. And we won't have a massive pile of initative protecting us from a second attack. More likely, he just kills everything we care about first.
Word of Rihaku, the Bull will not "Ally" with us, we either become his vassal or we're another enemy.
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Also that implies he comes after us directly in combat which he won't now that he knows how much if a combat monster we are. He'll be more indirect and subtle as he is also known as the cunning.
Also this piece of shit wants us to pay him to not kill our people. Fuck this asshole.
Also this piece of shit wants us to pay him to not kill our people. Fuck this asshole.
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yeah, I don't see how Ragnar could "prepare" in the middle of the battle. Prep time means down time.
I think he means exactly that he couldn't beat us even if he studied us.
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- Location
- USA
So that is what it was... I thought he was offering us info about the true nature of eclipse exaltations. Others have "corrected" me saying that he is offering info about the true nature of lily's enemy.
But it turns out that what he was actually offering us is info about the lily herself
I will admit that hearing that this bit is extra significantly lowered my desire to work with him...
that being said that info is just so invaluable... and dead men tale no tales
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
That too.
He is not acting as though he feels he's losing, so much as he's acting to try and seize the advantage again since violence wasn't enough. We had it hammered in that he's cunning and treacherous during the initial parts of the update. He lost physically, so he's looking for levers, and he's likely to find it by throwing three pieces of information we probably want to entice us, then suggesting we bring our "Eclipse" in to sanctify an oath. Either we go to get her (Which means that Lily probably can't keep him contained), or he gets someone who isn't heavily combat focused on the table and within reach, which gives him a chance to take a hostage.
He can almost certainly tank a single attack from us at this point, long enough for him to cross the distance and take a hostage, which puts us on the back-foot again.
Do also note that none of the pieces of information he offered are something that a reasonably intelligent person couldn't have anticipated that we wanted just based on what he's learned in the past few minutes alone. He doesn't even need to know the answer, he just has to say that he'll tell us what he knows, and then flip the table.
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Actually this remind me. We apparently need to do yet another purge of spies. God we just got rid of the viziers too.
Hopefully between our new jade administrator and Nilul, we'll finally stomp this shit out.
Oh and nobody even answered me but could we use Infaliiable Messenger to covertly tell Nilul to get here and disguise herself as an Eclipse Casts?
Hopefully between our new jade administrator and Nilul, we'll finally stomp this shit out.
Oh and nobody even answered me but could we use Infaliiable Messenger to covertly tell Nilul to get here and disguise herself as an Eclipse Casts?
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
As a person that does vote counts often, which still involves cleaning them up by hand, I ask you to please use standard votes if otherwise doing adds nothing to the vote. Making him into a Working can be decided to be done later if we kill him, for example.
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Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
No my point is that we could have Nilul swear all the oaths that he wants to ensure his safety and it won't matter. His experience with Eclipse oaths will actually work against him here as Nilul won't be hurt back going back on an oath like an Eclipse would.
If he does run and somehow make it out of the heart of our power with the Lily on his heels we can just catch up to him with Sorcery and knock him into the incapacitated levels then perform the switch/oath.
1.We cut off a few of his limbs before anything, at the very least it will cost him a few motes which he could be using to escape.
2.We leave the room to get Nilul while visibly banishing Ambition.
3.We use Perfect Mirror to turn into an Eclipse Caste Nilul while Nilul enters using LSD to turn into us.
4.We return and Nilul swears oaths regarding his safe passage back to his territory and whatever other oaths he wants within reason, contingent of course on him following all the terms that we ask from him (not taking advantage of his temporary immunity by attacking us, telling the truth about what we need to know and other conditions to make the process painless) .
5.We pump him for all the information that he's worth regarding the Bull, Mountain, The Lily's foe, The Deathlords, locations of resources and artifacts and whatever else the Int 5 genius thinks would be relevant.
6.When we are finished we kill him, for all intents and purposes he just vanished off the face of Creation.
- Location
- USA
What? he was spying on us, when we caught him he tried to RUN not to use violence. It was only after we started maiming him that he even fought back and that was short lived before he surrendered.
He admitted he lost and is trying to buy his life with useful info. He isn't pissing himself like some coward but so what?
Yes, that's very annoying to have to deal with, though this vote is thankfully rather simple. My other pet peeve involves using a lower-case x inside the brackets, which the counter registers separately.
- Location
- USA
This part right here is the problem. He just goes
gnat you and disappears.
- Location
- The end of all things
An alliance with the Bull of the North is basically impossible. He accepts only submission.
Rihaku
The Internet
? If you kill him, you will have gained nothing and gotten the attention of a powerful enemy with a Direction-spanning empire.
If you don't kill him, you will receive three extremely valuable pieces of information, and the ability to dramatically limit his sabatoge efforts unless he develops a total obsession with hurting Luseng.
It's quite productive. Perhaps he did not submit as much as would assuage the average player's ego, but hey, he's an E5 Lunar. He knows exactly how much to offer for the offer to make profitable sense.
He may or may not have such an ability, but declaring it to be a certainty is a bit of a stretch. There are plenty of 2E concepts not translated into 3E, and the idea that this given one would necessarily have an upgrade is kind of random. Seven Shadow Evasion doesn't have any true upgrades, only ways to increase its duration, because Seven Shadow Evasion is the limit of Exalted defensive prowess.
But again, that's not to say he doesn't have such an ability, it's just strange that one would think he inevitably would, since there are numerous other paths by which a deception-inclined Lunar might decide to develop. It's like declaring that all Solar Brawl characters must have Ascendant Battle Visage, even though ABV is mostly good at chasing down kiters and not really worth the huge mote and anima costs in straight melee.
Heed Rihaku. He basically said that it won't be as easy to kill him if he decides to fuck with us I the future as you think. Probably because he'll be hiding his ass since he knows we'd be after him.
Seriously though we need to come up with some conditions for tr oaths if we go with them.
Stuff like don't knowing or unknowingly try to bullshit or mislead us. Or swear your loyalty to me and reveal this fact to no one.
We'd only be getting 2-3 oaths so we'd need to make them count. Can't give him ANY wiggle room if we can help it.
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Well, the Socialize Solar charm tree does seem to give a precedent to altering your own mind type effects.