Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
Then we run him down? Really he's in the Heart of Luseng and I'm reasonably sure an Odyssian Horse can outpace his fastest form if he somehow gets out.
[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
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- exalted (white wolf)
Emerald Oracle
Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force
- Location
- The Else
Right. BLOOD TO GREASE THE LATHE!
[x] Just Kill Him
-[x] In the aftermath explaining why we could not trust his words to the Lily
[x] House Cathak
[x] Just Kill Him
-[x] In the aftermath explaining why we could not trust his words to the Lily
[x] House Cathak
If we kill him we'll have eliminated an enemy. I wouldn't call that nothing.
Did you confirm somewhere the Bull would certainly know? I though that was still uncertain. Even if he does though we were never going to be allies with him in the first place, so the loss isn't to great.
It could be that my ego's been pricked, but frankly I don't see the situation making very much profitable sense at all. The info is not valuable enough to justify the bargaining position he's advancing in my mind.
Rihaku
The Internet
Only if you can kill all animals in Luseng and stop all trade plus hermetically seal the area against all possible means of incursion, including the penetrating power of a character with E5 Lunar Strength Charms!
Sorcery is not that great at mid-battle pursuit, since The Odyssian Horse takes a huge number of Sorcerous Motes to cast. He could fade away easily before then, and then it'd be a contest of your supernal awareness vs his potentially uber Dexterity charms.
You will need to outline the exact wording of any proposed oaths.
He just won't tell you all that. You are free to propose tortures that you think might get him to tell you.
It does take her some effort to offload the consequences of an oath, it's not trivially done, and he will likely insist on a wording that is essentially uncounterable, like "and all the contents of this oath I personally guarantee to be entirely consistent with both the letter and the expressed spirit of the agreement, as outlined by Ragmar previously, and if they are not let me be immediately forsworn."
Sure, but the Socialize Tree also has plenty of other effects to develop towards, and Manipulation is broader than Socialize.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Eh, not a that much of a problem, but every bit helps, so thanks for correcting it!
Also, even standard votes will have some differences. For example, people usually vote in three different formats:
And we have no real way of enforcing which one should be used to a guaranteed degree, so cleaning up still takes time. Just less so if there are no original ones that mean the same thing.
Rihaku
The Internet
A lukewarm enemy at best, and one that wasn't doing you much harm. Besides, killing an enemy doesn't build up Luseng, it just kills an enemy. One of the many reasons why buffs are better than debuffs.
You guys don't know. What you do know is that Ulyssian doesn't think he's lying, and that Ragmar is an E5 Lunar known for his treachery and cunning.
Really? Objectively speaking the opportunity to exploit the Emerald Mountain alone is worth far more than his life. And the knowledge that whatever is under the Mountain would be too hot even for you to handle would also be more than his life.
- Location
- USA
By the time we notice he will be far enough to have hidden or lost us
Also, it takes time to summon the horse.
... i guess we could detect it via our air ability and then smash through everything in the way without regards for collateral damage to chase him down.
That is what I have been saying. That bit of info alone is worth it.
We can prepare for whatever danger lurks within, and there is so much we could do with this mountain of jade
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Lukewarm enemy? At the end of the day he was sabotaging us and if this encounter ends he'll have walked out of our inner sanctum with plenty of new info in hand, along with a nice full pocket. While out only a few answers and a halfhearted restriction. That is not the kind of message that is all that helpful to send in my mind.
We don't think he's lying, but all he said was the bull would be most displeased. That could mean a number of things.
As for exploiting the Mountain, I pretty much decided to trust Lily on that, so I already fall into the too hot to handle camp.
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Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
From a meta point of view I know this might sound a bit lazy but why? We have an Int 5 genius in Uly and a Manipulation 5 mastermind in Nilul, you'd think that if we could provide some general guidelines they'd be able to create an oath far more airtight then ours.
Thinking about it is there any reason we can't just knock him into the incapacitated levels and then go get Nilul for the plan? I mean we'd still have to leave Lily behind in case he has some kind of regeneration charm he can activate while unconscious but at the very least it'd probably be much more difficult for him to escape her.
He would rather die then give up his information? Because it would be easy to add "So long as Ragnar provides complete and accurate information regarding the questions we ask to the best of his ability while not sabotaging his memory or in any way impeding his ability to answer" to any oath he would have us swear. Hell we could even give a set of questions beforehand and make his survival contingent on answering them honestly "If Ragnar does not truthfully reveal what lies within the Mountain then he is foresworn and his life immediately forfeit."
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Again, the fact that "Yeah, he just won't tell you that", sort of suggests he's pretty sure he can make an escape, but it would be chancy enough that he'd rather just toss us a few crumbs so he can remove the risk.
He tried to run earlier, and it didn't work out so well. The information being offered is far more valuable than mere crumbs.
Out of curiosity, last quest gave us a potent catalyst from murdering Anys syn in form of her heart. Considering how old Ragmar is, how potent of ingredient can we get from just murdering him here?
Probably not something quite as valuable as the Wracked Heart of Anys Syn, since she's much older and stronger than Ragmar, but it world be a respectable reagent.
Rihaku
The Internet
Uly has a few seconds to think about it and is one person; you guys have 80 people and hours upon hours to think about it. Also, Uly's up against Ragmar who has full Intelligence and Manipulation Excellencies, while you guys are just up against little old me.
If you think that's sufficient, you can try that, sure.
That's fine, he'll answer the questions he told you he would, but he won't answer stuff about random Artifacts or whatever.
He just won't agree to that, unless they're about the three topics he said he'd speak about, or three other topics acceptable to him. If you don't like it, try to kill him.
- Location
- The end of all things
Do we (or The Lily) currently have an easy way of dealing aggravated damage to Ragnar?
Does Lily have any essence draining effects?
Does Lily have any essence draining effects?
Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
Ulyssian: *Hacks all of Ragnar's limbs off and puts him into the Incapacitated level* Right now I have some time to think of things, be a dear and fetch NIlul oh unnamed Jade child of mine.
Well we can definitely put him into incapacitated and then wait for Nilul to come here, then go and talk things over with her while The LIly and our Jade creation watch over him. I also believe we can attack him from that distance as well thanks to some of our charms? Basically tear him into a barely living pulp, walk out and discuss things with NIlul (in writing if we are being properly paranoid), then switch and walk back in to begin the interrogation. We'd only have to be in the next room over and could respond quite quickly.
So he is only willing to answer three topics in exchange for his life? He'd outright refuse and risk fighting two of the strongest exalts on the planet if they tried to get him to answer a fourth? This guy is a terrible negotiator.
A good point; the Lily might have access to draining effects through her soulsteel rapier and gauntlet.
Rihaku
The Internet
Not unless you develop a Defining Tie of Hatred towards him, unfortunately.
Rihaku
The Internet
Once one adopts the principle, "I am willing to sacrifice anything if it means saving my own life," then - when you give an inch - even an idiot knows to take a mile. Some people prefer to die free rather than live a slave. If four questions is not so different from three, then is not five so different from four? And after five comes six, after six comes seven, and so on and so forth... no, he will not go down that path, and you may think whatever you like of him for it.
Go ahead, try to kill him.
Only the gauntlet is soulsteel, but no, she doesn't.
Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
Yeah he's just a terrible negotiator then. It's great to try and keep some cards close to your chest but when you have a blade to your throat and two murdermachines looking down on you as your guts pool on the floor it's best to just take the oath and assume the Lytek position.
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I wonder what terms he would accept. Leave the North forever, never harm or inconvenience Ulyssian or anyone under his protection, or other incredibly broad things?
Edit: Hmm, we do know Lea lives. Would he swear to find her and serve her loyaly and obediently for a century, a year, and a day? Well, perhaps just a year, a month and a day.
Edit: Hmm, we do know Lea lives. Would he swear to find her and serve her loyaly and obediently for a century, a year, and a day? Well, perhaps just a year, a month and a day.
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meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
What? I think you've missed the point here. Think about a situation where a normal person is told "Kill your family, and I will let you live". In Ragmar's case, it might not be too far off to compare his situation to that. He just has a set of principles that make him unlikely to surrender to our mercies without terms that do not completely screw him over, even with the threat of a near-certain death hanging over him. More relevant example IC might be Odyssial kneeling in complete surrender before the Titans to save his life, and not with a plan on exactly how to betray them later on.
He is treacherous,the greatest threacherous is betray himself and principle.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[X] Just Kill Him
No. of votes: 15
Thomasfoolery, Usernames, Alectai, Orm Embar, Savonarola, skaro, Emerald Oracle, CrawlingChaos74, TheOtherSandman, Diller, Dark Lord Bob, Mishco, Daniel14541, AZATHOTHoth, VanusDraco
-[x] In the aftermath explaining why we could not trust his words to the Lily
No. of votes: 1
Emerald Oracle
[X] Accept
No. of votes: 14
sithmor, Ridiculously Average Guy, Da Boyz, CharlBaal, aja318, Van Ropen, afterthought53, mrttao, Vitaris, Cavalier, Wing101, Reckless_Sun, inawarminister, Kurowari
[X] Accept, then kill him anyway after he answers the questions
No. of votes: 1
Anasurimbor
-[X] Swap Ulyssian and Nilul so that the former is not actually bound to spare Ragnar.
No. of votes: 1
Anasurimbor
[X] The Guild
No. of votes: 15
sithmor, Ridiculously Average Guy, Da Boyz, CharlBaal, aja318, Savonarola, afterthought53, mrttao, VanusDraco, Cavalier, Wing101, Reckless_Sun, inawarminister, Kurowari, CrawlingChaos74
[X] A Great House (Cathak)
No. of votes: 9
Usernames, Orm Embar, skaro, Van Ropen, Diller, Daniel14541, AZATHOTHoth, Mishco, Emerald Oracle
[X] A Great House (Mnemon)
No. of votes: 1
Thomasfoolery
##### 3.21
[X] Just Kill Him
No. of votes: 15
Thomasfoolery, Usernames, Alectai, Orm Embar, Savonarola, skaro, Emerald Oracle, CrawlingChaos74, TheOtherSandman, Diller, Dark Lord Bob, Mishco, Daniel14541, AZATHOTHoth, VanusDraco
-[x] In the aftermath explaining why we could not trust his words to the Lily
No. of votes: 1
Emerald Oracle
[X] Accept
No. of votes: 14
sithmor, Ridiculously Average Guy, Da Boyz, CharlBaal, aja318, Van Ropen, afterthought53, mrttao, Vitaris, Cavalier, Wing101, Reckless_Sun, inawarminister, Kurowari
[X] Accept, then kill him anyway after he answers the questions
No. of votes: 1
Anasurimbor
-[X] Swap Ulyssian and Nilul so that the former is not actually bound to spare Ragnar.
No. of votes: 1
Anasurimbor
[X] The Guild
No. of votes: 15
sithmor, Ridiculously Average Guy, Da Boyz, CharlBaal, aja318, Savonarola, afterthought53, mrttao, VanusDraco, Cavalier, Wing101, Reckless_Sun, inawarminister, Kurowari, CrawlingChaos74
[X] A Great House (Cathak)
No. of votes: 9
Usernames, Orm Embar, skaro, Van Ropen, Diller, Daniel14541, AZATHOTHoth, Mishco, Emerald Oracle
[X] A Great House (Mnemon)
No. of votes: 1
Thomasfoolery