[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
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- Tags
- exalted (white wolf)
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Somehow, this came to my mind when thinking about the plan Interrogate-Don't-Kill-But-Actually-Kill. Warning about spoilers for those who haven't watched The Devil is a Part-Timer and its Abridged -series yet, but plan to. Link
On other issues, I'm starting to get reeeaaally curious about all the shiny we have been hinted about, but haven't yet seen the exact mechanics or even descriptions for. What does End of Evolution's final form give us, exactly? What kind of juicy shaping rituals and sorcerous merits we got/can get from the Lathe of Heaven -initiation? Could you update the character sheet in the near future, or are you planning to pushing it to a combat scene where its relevant, and won't require just a few swiping of flies with Ambition? Or even longer? Come on, man! I need my fix!
Maybe as a compromise vote we kill him only half-dead? The Seeds would be so useful for that right now...
On other issues, I'm starting to get reeeaaally curious about all the shiny we have been hinted about, but haven't yet seen the exact mechanics or even descriptions for. What does End of Evolution's final form give us, exactly? What kind of juicy shaping rituals and sorcerous merits we got/can get from the Lathe of Heaven -initiation? Could you update the character sheet in the near future, or are you planning to pushing it to a combat scene where its relevant, and won't require just a few swiping of flies with Ambition? Or even longer? Come on, man! I need my fix!
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[X] Accept
[X] The Guild
[X] The Guild
I just want to kill someone,We focus on training montage and admin for too long.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
[X] Accept
[X] The Guild
[X] The Guild
I think in all this people forget Lily's favor part of accept. We are her friend, not really close one but still. Thisvis chance to repay jer for jelp she gave us until now and gain valuable intel. Securing loyalty of someone like Lily is well worth risk coming from future confrontations with Ragnar.
To me, closer ties with the Lily are a reason not to accept.
[ ] Just Kill Him
- [ ] Don't banter, gloat or explain yourself; don't give him time to act or speak.
The information he has may be valuable, but he's just too much of a threat to let live. If we let him go, he WILL screw us over at some future date. And then the point has been raised that he might sabotage the information he gives us, so it might not even be trustworthy. It might be hard and it might take some time, but we can get the information he has elsewhere. This fucker has to die.
EDIT: Vote consolidated with later post.
- [ ] Don't banter, gloat or explain yourself; don't give him time to act or speak.
The information he has may be valuable, but he's just too much of a threat to let live. If we let him go, he WILL screw us over at some future date. And then the point has been raised that he might sabotage the information he gives us, so it might not even be trustworthy. It might be hard and it might take some time, but we can get the information he has elsewhere. This fucker has to die.
EDIT: Vote consolidated with later post.
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SirLagginton
Shadow Cabal Caerbannog Bun-Bun
- Location
- Arrrghhh
Be that as it may, but I'd like to think that Uly is the type of person to repay a favor, considering the risks the Lily has gone through in helping us construct our Workings.
And before I forget...
[X] Accept
[X] The Guild
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
I'm still not sure what to vote for, but if we have first Nilul enforce the oaths, she can also stay to scan Ragmar for any lies or omissions, in which she is even better than Uly. Two Celestial-rank Exalts with their focus on extremely good lie-detection abilities vs an oath-bound Lunar who focuses on lies will quite likely go more in our favor, though I admit that there is still a chance of him succesfully screwing us over with false information right now, or later with betrayal. Its just not as likely as many people seem to be thinking.
He doesn't have to know he is lying to lie.
- Location
- USA
the vote is always contested, the fact you argue on both sides makes it even more so
[X] Just Kill Him [+50,000 XP] - Your instincts tell you that this man cannot be trusted. No matter what he says, even if he's not lying, he's entirely too comfortable in this situation. You already know that he has masterminded the death of thousands of Lusengese. End him and his schemes once and for all.
Oh I don't doubt he'll tell us the truth, but it's easy to lie with a truth. Sure he'll tell us where Lily's enemy is, but then that enemy will no doubt shift locations or be located in an impenetrable fortress. He'll promise to not harm people and then burn and salt their fields. He'll promise to not act against us and instead merely help our enemies. He'll tell us what is in the mountain and the information will be worthless. He'll promise us faith and serve only betrayal. He is a traitor, he is an enemy, he is going to die.
Oh I don't doubt he'll tell us the truth, but it's easy to lie with a truth. Sure he'll tell us where Lily's enemy is, but then that enemy will no doubt shift locations or be located in an impenetrable fortress. He'll promise to not harm people and then burn and salt their fields. He'll promise to not act against us and instead merely help our enemies. He'll tell us what is in the mountain and the information will be worthless. He'll promise us faith and serve only betrayal. He is a traitor, he is an enemy, he is going to die.
Because of slavery i guess
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Wasn't there a stunt to oath-bind him against this too? And I suspect that Nilul has a chance of maybe finding it out, even when Ragmar doesn't know himself that he is lying.
Give some credit to Uly and Nilul, seriously. While Ragmar is extremely good at what he does, so are Uly and Nilul, who hold the advantage in this situation. And can be even more so, if The Lily boosts both of them to be sharper on the look-out against the lies. While he has a chance of betraying us later, which he will likely ty sooner or later, in this immediate situation we have a good chance of getting out extremely important and hard to find information with no traps mixed in. Though he will try it if he thinks he can get away with it and is willing to risk his life, of course.
But remember, he wants to live, which is why he is offering information that won't directly hurt him, but he thinks is valuable to us. If we find out that he is lying, he is nearly guaranteed to die. So again, not screwing us over makes sense if he is unsure about his ability to do so reliably, and can offer information that has no great negative repercussions on him, at least in the short-term.
More relevant arguments against letting him live would be things like that culling him here and now would have a good chance of scattering his beastmen that are still holding some of our land. I'm not sure if the "won't hurt Lusengese ever again" will cover leaving lands he has already conquered and defending himself against invasions in his currently held territory.
Also, the prestige and support we would get from slaying yet an another Anathema, with this being the one who has been hounding Luseng and the Realm for a thousand years. It could go well hand in hand with the themes of the Grand Heresy. And things like sorcerous materials, which have been mentioned before. Lunar heart-essence bathed in lies and thousands of different masks could be very useful for certain Workings.
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I'm pretty sure the Great Houses did things just as bad as the Guild if not worse.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
[X] Accept - He does not appear to be lying, and you are very good at ferreting out lies. He's treacherous, but you believe he will follow through with the agreement to save his own hide. You can tell that The Lily is very interested in his information as well, and you do owe her a big favor. [+Lily favor]
[X] The Guild - Man, you sure are screwing over the Guild!
Could people please put away the murderboner and think of the big picture?
[X] The Guild - Man, you sure are screwing over the Guild!
Could people please put away the murderboner and think of the big picture?
[X] Accept
[X] The Guild
[X] The Guild
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Can you explain how leaving the treacherous person alive who will straight up refuse to be bound further than "I live, in exchange for three pieces of information, unless you pay me to do more. Is advantageous to the big picture?
If he walks away, he walks away having gained advantage on us, and identified our oathbinder. That's enough for him to start destroying us--and Rihaku is demanding us specifically declare the wording of any Oaths we stick on him--which suggests that he's going to try and find a loophole no matter what we pin on him.
Couple that with--again--the remarks that "He'll just straight up refuse to give anything that he hasn't offered, and you don't have any means of compelling him", and his own internal dialogue that he'll know how to beat us next time, suggests that he's not going to just give up because we cornered him and then let him go. He came into our sword range, but he likely could have shredded anyone who isn't us or Lily. Couple that with his position being strong enough that he'd be willing to die to avoid giving us any greater satisfaction than he's already compelling, and he's not going to just shrug and go away--we made this personal by cornering him, and he doesn't strike me as the sort of creature that tolerates his rivals seeing him sweat.
And of course, the possibility also exists that he can just straight up lie to us without violating any oath, and the balance of potential gain vs potential loss seems pretty lopsided. I'm almost certain that if he walks away or gives us the slip, we will regret it, because he's certainly not above attacking innocents or noncombattants to get his way.
I've only followed this quest for a short time, but it didn't take long to notice this trend. Rihaku always seems to be jerking us around, arguing on whatever side seems to be losing. I wonder if he gets some twisted amusement out of changing people's minds again and again until they don't know what to think anymore... He IS really good at presenting difficult choices, though, even before the arguing begins.
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This is true, but I'm not worried about that. We have him outclassed in combat; it's his intrigue that we need to worry about. Let's not play his game by moving the combat into the social / intrigue arena, shall we?