- Location
- The end of all things
You're thinking of House Cynis. Cathak is the house we irrevocably angered by killing their hero in a duel.
[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
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- Tags
- exalted (white wolf)
Emerald Oracle
Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force
- Location
- The Else
They are incidentally one of House Sesus' greatest rivals as well. Cathak and Sesus are the two most martially inclined of the Great Houses, so they really don't get along. They are deeply involved with the Realm Legions as well. Stealing their lunch is going to have a lot of interesting, and likely entertaining, knock on effects.
AZATHOTHoth
༼ つ ☀️_☀️ ༽つ
[X] Render him into a Working
[X] A Great House (Cathak)
[X] A Great House (Cathak)
- Location
- USA
[X] Accept
He is giving us 3 bits of information, all of them very useful.
We get to pay back the lily whom we owe, we get to learn more about those new exaltations, and we get the info about what exactly is inside the mountain which means we can prepare
When was the last time we prepared instead of just overwhelming something with brute force?
Also, he will be leaving our followers alone (but not our enemies). And we can always hunt him down later since the deal is that we spare him now and let him leave, not "never ever come after him".
[X] The Guild
I wanted the realm itself, but it seems to no longer be an option?
I know we killed the cathak hero in a duel, i referred to it. but I was apparently mixing them up with cynis in terns of alliance to house sesus. It is a real shame because we could have had a glorious ally if we beat him without killing him like chumps.
He is giving us 3 bits of information, all of them very useful.
We get to pay back the lily whom we owe, we get to learn more about those new exaltations, and we get the info about what exactly is inside the mountain which means we can prepare
When was the last time we prepared instead of just overwhelming something with brute force?
Also, he will be leaving our followers alone (but not our enemies). And we can always hunt him down later since the deal is that we spare him now and let him leave, not "never ever come after him".
[X] The Guild
I wanted the realm itself, but it seems to no longer be an option?
Cynis, Cathak, same difference
I know we killed the cathak hero in a duel, i referred to it. but I was apparently mixing them up with cynis in terns of alliance to house sesus. It is a real shame because we could have had a glorious ally if we beat him without killing him like chumps.
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- Location
- The end of all things
So I think the idea of swapping Nilul and Ulyssian so that we can get the information and kill the treacherous Lunar can be made to work. There are a couple possible pitfalls, but I think that they can be relatively reliably avoided. The failure state isn't actually much worse than just killing him.
The first issue is the visual effects of the oathbinding. It can be done undetectably, but Ragnar obviously won't accept this. The actual visual effect doesn't appear on the Exalt themselves, but in their anima. If Nilul is next to Ulyssian, this slight discrepancy shouldn't be noticeable. This issue can be further reduced if Nilul uses her disguise to make her anima appear slightly off center. Such a minor change should be possible.
The more pertinent issue is keeping him from suspecting foul play and structuring the oaths so that only Nilul violates them, which she can do thanks to her unique Fiend power. This necessarily means avoiding lies, and ideally even misleading statements. I suggest having "Nilul" remain largely silent. "Ulyssian" could swear an oath to spare Ragnar, protect him until he is free, and even to slay anyone would so much as attack him during the next couple of days. That should be sufficiently comprehensive that he doesn't demand oaths from everyone here. Besides, that would be very tiring for Nilul.
[X] Accept, then kill him anyway after he answers the questions
-[X] Swap Ulyssian and Nilul so that the former is not actually bound to spare Ragnar.
The first issue is the visual effects of the oathbinding. It can be done undetectably, but Ragnar obviously won't accept this. The actual visual effect doesn't appear on the Exalt themselves, but in their anima. If Nilul is next to Ulyssian, this slight discrepancy shouldn't be noticeable. This issue can be further reduced if Nilul uses her disguise to make her anima appear slightly off center. Such a minor change should be possible.
The more pertinent issue is keeping him from suspecting foul play and structuring the oaths so that only Nilul violates them, which she can do thanks to her unique Fiend power. This necessarily means avoiding lies, and ideally even misleading statements. I suggest having "Nilul" remain largely silent. "Ulyssian" could swear an oath to spare Ragnar, protect him until he is free, and even to slay anyone would so much as attack him during the next couple of days. That should be sufficiently comprehensive that he doesn't demand oaths from everyone here. Besides, that would be very tiring for Nilul.
[X] Accept, then kill him anyway after he answers the questions
-[X] Swap Ulyssian and Nilul so that the former is not actually bound to spare Ragnar.
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Emerald Oracle
Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force
- Location
- The Else
See here's my question, do we even NEED Nilul to switch with us besides disguising her? She's capable of breaking her own Eclipse Oath bindings. We could have have Ragmar and ourselves bound, answer the questions, then have her break the binding and ICE the treacherous bastard.
- Location
- USA
Why are you so obsessed with a murderboner on this guy?
What do we gain from killing him compared to accepting the deal?
We decapitate one of the three central threats to Luseng. It's not really about what we gain, though we do get experience out of the bargain, it's about avoiding the losses that his continued existence would incur.
- Location
- The end of all things
Because he's a horrible person that we can safely eliminate right now. Creation will be a better place without him. We won't have to worry about the future antics of an extremely treacherous and extremely powerful monster. He will search for every loophole in the oaths and attempt to exploit it simply as a matter of pride.
I'm not confident that we can get a set of oaths that will adequately constrain his future actions. Maybe if we could go full Odyssial on the oaths, binding him under dozens of overlapping ones we could afford to let him live, but Nilul will only let us get 2-3 at most. Sanctifying oaths is hard work.
Not simply killing him out of hand is as a favor for Lily, and also because we'll learn more about Emerald Mountain. Also, I think she would find the way he dies to be amusingly ironic.
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- Location
- The savanna.
What Anasurimbor said, basically. He's an asshole and will hurt Creation by continuing to exist. Odyssial's skillset is such that the most relevant contribution to the health of Creation he can make is removing threats to it. We're better at killing assholes than ruling; this guy is both an asshole and a threat to our rule. Therefore, we should kill him.
Q.E.D.
Q.E.D.
Then we can just kill him. We lose nothing by making the attempt.
Maybe incorporate his remains into a Working designed to mitigate the consequences of breaking Oaths, or general treachery. Odyssial knows how irritating Oaths can be, especially when you have to break them.
SirLagginton
Shadow Cabal Caerbannog Bun-Bun
- Location
- Arrrghhh
I dunno, sticking parts of a hypertreacherous Lunar into Moon doesn't sound like the brightest of moves...
Rihaku
The Internet
He's been alive for a thousand years, and not all the Solars got in the prison. He's also been exposed to the lore of the Lunar Elders.
If you don't have him at swordpoint, you're not sure whether The Lily would be able to prevent him from escaping. He's about that fast, and who knows at what rate he can regenerate his limbs if you're not there to hack them off faster than he can react.
You will need to come up with the wording yourself, if you are trying the "kill him anyway" option. I'm not saying it's impossible, but due to the nature of the choice you will NOT know whether your proposed write-ins are effective until the update itself.
You guys will have to lay out an exactly structured and detailed plan covering all the steps beginning from this point in time, up to the wording of the oaths.
Hm, maybe.
Windlass
A Windy Lass
- Location
- Wherever the wind is blowing
Maybe we could distill his essence down into something less dangerous? Uly is a peerless (well, 'cept for Samea and one or two others) Sorcerer now, so hopefully he'd see pitfalls like that coming.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Well, fuck. I knew that Rihaku was going to update before I would get my other omake ready. But eh, can't really complain more updates and I can just post it later for the XP when its complete.
Besides, this might open up a future door for an alliance with the Bull himself, as I don't for some reason like the idea of making an alliance with just Ragmar himself. We are planning to betray the Realm and take it over in the end, after all, and the benefits from being on the winning side might interest the Bull. Though there remains the problem of him being a barbarian tribe leader who might not be satisfied by the Realm left standing in any form, even with it being under our or our ally's rule. Still, there is still at least the possibility of him and Ulyssian coming to an agreement, and Ody was a tribal leader on the First Age so maybe they will have something in common to talk about.
I can understand the support for that option, as it get rids of the potential of a future betrayal at an inopportunate moment for us in the addition of netting us a small amount sweet, sweet XP, though I think might be personally leaning towards Accept for now.
Well, there is the little problem of him potentially exploiting the opening as we switch places or the moment when we don't have Ambition in hand. He seems just a bit too cunning for that to work with any reliability, and the risk of him potentially escaping rising quite a bit makes this particular stunt somewhat unpalatable to me.
Besides, this might open up a future door for an alliance with the Bull himself, as I don't for some reason like the idea of making an alliance with just Ragmar himself. We are planning to betray the Realm and take it over in the end, after all, and the benefits from being on the winning side might interest the Bull. Though there remains the problem of him being a barbarian tribe leader who might not be satisfied by the Realm left standing in any form, even with it being under our or our ally's rule. Still, there is still at least the possibility of him and Ulyssian coming to an agreement, and Ody was a tribal leader on the First Age so maybe they will have something in common to talk about.
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We've been told that the Bull won't accept anything other than submission, so allying with him is unlikely. Why betray the Realm when we can simply subvert it? Well, perhaps not simply, but that's what we've been doing so far.
Rihaku
The Internet
Btw, his offer is not "Spare me and I'll tell you this info, plus let you place a bunch of restrictions on my future actions." It's "let me go, with all that entails, and I'll tell you these three pieces of info," with a corollary of, "you can PAY me to limit my future actions with regardless to your essentially defenseless populace in certain ways bound by oath, which are likely not to preclude the full range of potential actions I could precipitate upon them if I REALLY wanted to."
If you want to kill him, you won't get the information, and the wrath of the Bull (presumably) will fall upon you.
If you want to kill him, you won't get the information, and the wrath of the Bull (presumably) will fall upon you.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
He calls himself the Treacherous.
We... We don't even really have any way of convincing him not to just take Nilul hostage if she tries to sanctify an oath.
I mean, she still needs to reach us, and she needs to get sufficiently close to bind us, there's technically nothing stopping him from just perfecting our sword to his throat away and taking her hostage when we try that.
Furthermore, again, he's not actually begging for his life so much as he's probing for advantage and looking for an opportunity to escape. Giving him a potential hostage who isn't as badass as ourselves and the Lily is a good way for him to do that!
Frankly, I think he's bullshitting us to try and get us to bring another player onto the board that he can take hostage and escape with, then likely kill the hostage to deny us an asset. He is not our friend, he calls himself the Treacherous and is proud of the title, and he does not fear any sanctified oaths.
Kill the fucker before he finds a weak point.
We... We don't even really have any way of convincing him not to just take Nilul hostage if she tries to sanctify an oath.
I mean, she still needs to reach us, and she needs to get sufficiently close to bind us, there's technically nothing stopping him from just perfecting our sword to his throat away and taking her hostage when we try that.
Furthermore, again, he's not actually begging for his life so much as he's probing for advantage and looking for an opportunity to escape. Giving him a potential hostage who isn't as badass as ourselves and the Lily is a good way for him to do that!
Frankly, I think he's bullshitting us to try and get us to bring another player onto the board that he can take hostage and escape with, then likely kill the hostage to deny us an asset. He is not our friend, he calls himself the Treacherous and is proud of the title, and he does not fear any sanctified oaths.
Kill the fucker before he finds a weak point.
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The proposed plan has us masquerading as Nilul. The results of that would be... amusing, to say the least.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Ah, that's a pity, then. But I'm still not sure if I favor killing him, Accepting his deal or trying to ferret out his secrets and then killing him.
Hmm. An another potential way for him to betray us and do so right now, reminding us it is quite dangerous to deal with him even now. But I think that succeeding is quite unlikely with Uly holding Ambition on his throat.
Yeah, frankly his offer is incredibly awful for us. We get a few scraps of info, he gets his life, and a few minor restrictions if we PAY him for his trouble!? It's really a garbage deal in my opinion, not the kind of thing we should be entertaining. Setting the precedent that enemy actors get off so easily is not something I'd like to do.
As for the bull, I believe Rihaku has said that the only way we could ally with him was bending the knee anyway so... Not all that torn up about him (if he even finds out, which is not guaranteed).
As for the bull, I believe Rihaku has said that the only way we could ally with him was bending the knee anyway so... Not all that torn up about him (if he even finds out, which is not guaranteed).
- Location
- USA
Nope, he would be magically bound to never harm or threatn anything of ours again, which includes luseng. Since both killing him and accepting the deal eliminates him as a threat to luseng, it is thus not a marginal gain
Furthermore it precipitates war with the bull too early which is a threat to both luseng and creation (if we win) and we miss out on info on whatever is inside the mountain which is also a threat. Oh, and whatever lily hates most is probably a pretty major threat to creation as well.
AND he will be providing us info on exaltations we do not have, further addressing threats to creation