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Dungeons and Dragons Megathread

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Everything in the Advanced Race Guide is printed on the Pathfinder SRD Wiki. Go there and read through some of the stuff. The ARG is basically a point buy 'build a race' thing and can be hilariously broken without a firm hand from the GM as basically any point buy system can be.
 
Aaron Peori said:
Everything in the Advanced Race Guide is printed on the Pathfinder SRD Wiki.
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Well yeah, I already knew that. What I'm curious about is if this new book is basically a MkII / updated version of the ARG (at least where its races overlap) or an alternate take on the same races (plus new). And if the latter, if it's similarly "hilariously broken without a firm hand from the DM", more-so, less-so, the book itself is decent or not...
 
I like Fetchlings a lot more than I ought to. Maybe it's because they have stat boosts on the two Abilities I like most regardless of class, maybe it's because of their visual design that I really like. But basically I really feel like playing some kind of cool badass fetchling - but then the same is true of many other races.

Pathinder, why do you look so cool despite using the thoroughly broken 3.5 system? This is making me feel conflicted!
 
Wolf Ritter said:
I don't even know, but it seems like the people who write adventures for D&D and every DM I've ever run into are under the same delusion that the only thing of worth in the underdark are Drow and endless, featureless caves.
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In my last D&D setting, dark places got progressively weirder the deeper (and darker) you went.

The darkness became more solid, more real, until it flowed like liquid: the vast oceans and rivers of the underground were not water, they were Shadow.

Correspondingly, matter became less real, less restricted by physical laws, less massive -- and so it was possible to travel very swiftly through the darkness of the depths. It was even possible to travel to different worlds, and thus the Dwarves built great ships of stone which were moored in the most secret depths of their stone cities, and thus did their trading empire span the caverns of countless worlds.

Of course, traveling upon the hungry surface of reified shadow was not safe. The deeper you dove, the faster you might travel, but also the faster you might find yourself pulled down. As you were pulled down, the darkness would become more real, and your physical body (and vehicle) would become less real, less able to avert or even influence your descent -- and all that merely speaks of the environment, which leaves aside the dangers who inhabit that environment. The denizens that dwell in the trenches of elemental darkness would give even the greatest material kraken pause.
 
So, my roommate just picked up the Pathfinder Bestiary 5, and I'm taking the chance to look it over. Some of the monsters seem pretty cool: the Living Mirage is a cloud of gas that can create natural illusions within itself, and drains the water out of anyone it engulfs. The Hundun is a humanoid cosmic horror villain (it looks kinda like a person in a robe, until you get close and see that the thing is faceless and the robe is the creature's skin) that longs to unmake reality and is opposed by Angels, Devils, Kytons, Asuras, and basically everything else in the universe. And the gate archon just looks badass.

Of course, they can't all be winners: the Akaname is a small aberration that dwells in caves and sewers, only to creep out into human houses and... clean their bathrooms and toilets with its giant gross tongue. The Animated Hair is basically The Thing That Came Out of the Shower Drain. The Apostate Devil has a good design, but its big evil goal is to convert people to atheism - yes, really.

And then there's the ones who are really just a mixed bag. The Gray is a good representation of the thing from folklore, but the SF elements in the setting tend to be much more pulp than modern conspiracy. The Lotus Tree is nice and mythological, but the decision to make it a CR20 plant monster that can permanently mind-wipe people to steal psychic power is somewhat odd. And the Deep One is a good, classic Lovecraft monster, but the illustration has it wearing an octopus as a goddamn hat.

But the thing that that makes me the saddest is the Orang-Pendak, a jungle variant of the sasquatch based on an orangutan. It's a small creature, but it's got a strength bonus and a bonus to tearing things apart. I thought to myself "ha ha, finally a cavalier who can ride mounts that fit in dungeons!" And then I looked at the rest of its abilities - it has one called "Own Two Feet", which gives it -2 to ability checks, attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws and skill checks while mounted or on a vehicle. Goddamnit Paizo, would it be SO TERRIBLE to let us have our cavaliers functional in a dungeon-sized environment in your Dungeons and Dragons rip-off?
 
Of course, they can't all be winners: the Akaname is a small aberration that dwells in caves and sewers, only to creep out into human houses and... clean their bathrooms and toilets with its giant gross tongue. The Animated Hair is basically The Thing That Came Out of the Shower Drain. The Apostate Devil has a good design, but its big evil goal is to convert people to atheism - yes, really.
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Fuck you, those all sound super awesome and gameable.
 
tzar1990 said:
The Apostate Devil has a good design, but its big evil goal is to convert people to atheism - yes, really.
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The point of that one always seems to me to the the inherent hypocrisies in Hell- it denegrates all the gods (except Asmodeus, which it basically tries to pretend isn't really a god, so it's okay to follow him! You should totally do that instead of following those stupid gods!).
 
tzar1990 said:
Akaname
Lotus Tree
Orang-Pendak
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Akaname - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lotus-eaters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Orang Pendek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I'm pretty sure the Living Hair is based on a youkai as well.
horngeek said:
The point of that one always seems to me to the the inherent hypocrisies in Hell- it denegrates all the gods (except Asmodeus, which it basically tries to pretend isn't really a god, so it's okay to follow him! You should totally do that instead of following those stupid gods!).
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To be entirely fair, he wasn't a god...Not until he actually became one.
Aand like hell( :tongue: ) will they ever change just because the world has been turned on its head.
 
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horngeek said:
The point of that one always seems to me to the the inherent hypocrisies in Hell- it denegrates all the gods (except Asmodeus, which it basically tries to pretend isn't really a god, so it's okay to follow him! You should totally do that instead of following those stupid gods!).
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Fair enough! I just can't see it without thinking of Athe, Dark God of Disbelief, from Earthscorpion's Overlady.
 
tzar1990 said:
So, my roommate just picked up the Pathfinder Bestiary 5, and I'm taking the chance to look it over. Some of the monsters seem pretty cool: the Living Mirage is a cloud of gas that can create natural illusions within itself, and drains the water out of anyone it engulfs. The Hundun is a humanoid cosmic horror villain (it looks kinda like a person in a robe, until you get close and see that the thing is faceless and the robe is the creature's skin) that longs to unmake reality and is opposed by Angels, Devils, Kytons, Asuras, and basically everything else in the universe. And the gate archon just looks badass.
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I think 3 and 4 are probably the best paizo bestiaries. 5's not bad, I found it's PC to have some good and some bad (Android, Ghoran, really good. Skinwalker, deep One Hybrid, good. Orang, Reptoid, Caligni redundant to similar races. Shabti, interesting background that's not too likely to come up and too effectively human+. Astomoi just bleh.), but of the new planar groups, Manasaputra are ok (look cool but 'usually doesn't intervene in events' makes 'em limited), and Sahkil, well, 'grim reapers except evil instead of neutral, and really ugly,' is not something I think holds much of any weight among Pathfinder's other more interesting evil and/or destructive races. Oh, and robots, which IMO they didn't have a good enough selection of, though the Annihilator is a cool-looking beast.

And the rest, again a scattering. Some good, some eh, some weird. Not as much of a unifying theme as the last two.

Goddamnit Paizo, would it be SO TERRIBLE to let us have our cavaliers functional in a dungeon-sized environment in your Dungeons and Dragons rip-off?
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Yeees!
 
Q99 said:
I think 3 and 4 are probably the best paizo bestiaries. 5's not bad, I found it's PC to have some good and some bad (Android, Ghoran, really good. Skinwalker, deep One Hybrid, good. Orang, Reptoid, Caligni redundant to similar races. Shabti, interesting background that's not too likely to come up and too effectively human+. Astomoi just bleh.), but of the new planar groups, Manasaputra are ok (look cool but 'usually doesn't intervene in events' makes 'em limited), and Sahkil, well, 'grim reapers except evil instead of neutral, and really ugly,' is not something I think holds much of any weight among Pathfinder's other more interesting evil and/or destructive races. Oh, and robots, which IMO they didn't have a good enough selection of, though the Annihilator is a cool-looking beast.

And the rest, again a scattering. Some good, some eh, some weird. Not as much of a unifying theme as the last two.
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The thing about the Android and Ghoran is that they were already printed in the Inner Sea Bestiary - I'm less well inclined to give credit for having good shit in the book when it's just a re-print of previous good shit.

And as for the Orang-Pendak, I think if I was running them, I'd replace the "can't ride for shit" weakness with something like "can't throw for shit," since I'm pretty sure orangutans actually are bad at that relative to humans, and that way we don't have a nonsensical "fuk u cavaliers" trait in there.
 
Hey. So, who here is well-versd in both 3.5's and 5th edition's balance for the sake of evaluating homebrew?

Long story short, I was slated to use an awesome homebrew class for a 3.5 games, GM flaked, new guy took over but he prefers 5E. We are all fine with this, and everyone was able to convert except me for obvious reasons. I took a crack at converting it myself. I'd like a second opinion but I don't want to post it publically since it's not entirely my work. Please message me if you want to review it and give helpful feedback.
 
tzar1990 said:
The thing about the Android and Ghoran is that they were already printed in the Inner Sea Bestiary - I'm less well inclined to give credit for having good shit in the book when it's just a re-print of previous good shit.
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Also true, ditto the robots. I do still put it above Bestiary 2 (races were all simple elemental ones, Aeons and Proteans both boring, Inevitables simple mix between modrons and inevitables), but definitely not on the level of 3 (Asura, Demodands, Siv, Kytons, Oni, Rakshasa, the monkey race that makes the book 5 one seem redundant, poison-based race, etc.), or 4 (most of the lovecraft stuff, psychopomps who *aren't* evil or boring, a wide variety of good PCs races including four-armed Kasasha, small flying fey, small construct folk called Wyrwoods, flying gnolls, and of course, Kitsune who's actually being used in the just-started Wrath game on this forum).

Inner Sea Bestiary was a good book.

None of the pathfinder bestiaries get near as bad as some of the 3.X MMs, though. Even the weakest is 'less inspired with some good stuff.'

And as for the Orang-Pendak, I think if I was running them, I'd replace the "can't ride for shit" weakness with something like "can't throw for shit," since I'm pretty sure orangutans actually are bad at that relative to humans, and that way we don't have a nonsensical "fuk u cavaliers" trait in there.
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Heh, that sounds fair :)
 
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Update on my knowledge of Paizo Adventure paths-

The recent announcement of the hardcover version of Curse of the Crimson Throne seems to have brought up that it's a more loved path than I thought. While it does have a weak segment or so, the overall plot is viewed quite favorably. Seems the hardcover may be worth getting.

However, discussion of more early paths also brought up that Second Darkness is in lower esteem than I thought, perhaps in competition for most disliked ^^ It's got a 'first half assumes you're selfish, second assumes you're altruistic,' introduced the weird idea that normal elves can become drow if sufficiently evil in some circumstances (writer clarified elsewhere that demon worship and proximity to the evil god sealed in Golarian both are factors), and also was so full of xenophobic jerk-elves that one person who played the path reported being really hesitant about saving them from a meteor.

(Then of the last of the 3.5 paths, Legacy of Fire, the opinion is more, "Eh, it's not bad.")
 
It's funny, because i hear a lot of good things about Paizo APs here and on other sites but the only person i know IRL who has played any said that all 4 he played were terrible.

Sydonai said:
I'm pretty sure that the Pathfinder Core Book says that as well, that Drow are "just" evil Elves and any Elf that becomes evil will eventually become one. Or something like that.
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Oh, sweet Azatoth, really?

That's just... ugh. Are we in the gorram fairy tale middle ages where beauty fairness is goodness and evil makes you ugly black?

Because that just sounds terrible.
 
Q99 said:
Update on my knowledge of Paizo Adventure paths-

The recent announcement of the hardcover version of Curse of the Crimson Throne seems to have brought up that it's a more loved path than I thought. While it does have a weak segment or so, the overall plot is viewed quite favorably. Seems the hardcover may be worth getting.

However, discussion of more early paths also brought up that Second Darkness is in lower esteem than I thought, perhaps in competition for most disliked ^^ It's got a 'first half assumes you're selfish, second assumes you're altruistic,' introduced the weird idea that normal elves can become drow if sufficiently evil in some circumstances (writer clarified elsewhere that demon worship and proximity to the evil god sealed in Golarian both are factors), and also was so full of xenophobic jerk-elves that one person who played the path reported being really hesitant about saving them from a meteor.

(Then of the last of the 3.5 paths, Legacy of Fire, the opinion is more, "Eh, it's not bad.")
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I'm running it right now, and I have noticed that. Although I've been working to make sure the PCs feel the weight of their task. They still aren't a high enough level to just leave the plane or planet yet, so, to quote the Guardians of the Galaxy "We're the idiots who live here" is why they are following the plot.

It's biggest problem, IMO, is the railroading that must occur to really get the plot moving after the first book, but once on the track, inertia and self interest keeps characters going, since the Drow are IIRC scry-proof at that point, even if someone knew where to look, due to that Demon Lord that is orchestrating it all.


Also, I worked in future stuff for post AP last ride plot with one of the character's older brother's railroading and manipulating the plot to prove to the players that they are bound by fate just as much as he is (he saw his fate, something that shouldn't be possible post-Aroden death, and made some deals with deities to help him change it in return for some favors in the Material and Fey worlds).

It gives me a little more fun in railroading, because in universe they have noticed they are being railroaded and forced in a direction.


Chloe Sullivan said:
It's funny, because i hear a lot of good things about Paizo APs here and on other sites but the only person i know IRL who has played any said that all 4 he played were terrible.
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Skull and Shackles is apparently quite fun, as is Rise of the Runelords. From my talking to people, it seems there's always one really weak part of the path, and then good and average ones taking up the rest. Most reviews just depend on how much of the plot connects to the weak part.

Which ones did your friend play? Because I haven't played or witnessed any bad ones yet, or at least nothing that some good GM'ing and fun playgroup can't smooth over.
 
The Imperator said:
Which ones did your friend play? Because I haven't played or witnessed any bad ones yet, or at least nothing that some good GM'ing and fun playgroup can't smooth over.
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I don't think he remembers the name, but the complaints are mostly along the lines of "Okay, the cover promises and exciting adventure where we're pare of a caravan and go on trade missions to exotic places. The plot then immediately sends us away from the caravan on a fetch quest into a swamp where were are stuck fighting goblins and having nothing caravan related for months of game sessions."

Generally though, the overarching complaint i hear from everyone is that PF still thinks you should start at level 1, and in any D&D except 4th Ed, the proper response to someone telling you that you should start at level [less than 3] is to stab them in the face with a rusty fork.
 
Chloe Sullivan said:
Generally though, the overarching complaint i hear from everyone is that PF still thinks you should start at level 1, and in any D&D except 4th Ed, the proper response to someone telling you that you should start at level [less than 3] is to stab them in the face with a rusty fork.
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Yes, I do see that as a problem, but outside of 2e where you had to have story reasons to be able to take higher levels, it's hard to limit a game to not end too fast, especially the pre-written long term campaigns, without starting really early.


EDIT: Alright, yeah, their promises don't always hold with what the first adventure says. Usually because they start out in an open ended seeming story that necessitates itself into a plot. So iff your players know the whole plot ahead of time, I've found it's easier and more fun to do things, as they are wanting to play the plot that happens later, rather than the often distracting story that starts most APs that I have played.
 
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1st level can sort-of work for AD&D, depending on what sort of campaign you intend to run. I wouldn't say it's the best system (better to look outside D&D for those), but for running a(n A)D&D campaign where you want people fairly low on the totem it's fine.

Then again this might also be because AD&D's system breaks down far less in the 1-6 level range. After Mages and Clerics get access to 4th Level things start going downhill fast, with most semblance of inter-class balance breaking down after 9th / 10th (which is - conveniently - where most AD&D boxed campaigns cut themselves off).
 
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