Dungeons and Dragons Megathread

So double post for an interesting realization.

Crystal balls in PF only scry on people, not objects, you have to get another item to scry on objects/places. In addition, there is no way to know who is trying to scry on you, which could be potentially harmful if you let the scry work, and it turns out to be an enemy.

I can't remember where it came from, but one neat idea I've stolen is the exchange of special paired turtles, both taken from the same clutch, along with a little diadem made from the remains of their eggs, worked into a terrarium as part of the silver mirror at the bottom of the turtle pond. The idea there is that you can then use those mirrors to scry specifically on the paired turtle, and you bypass the theoretical 5% saving throw chance with the general ritual gribblies built into the mirror construction and the turtles themselves.

You use turtles because they're easy to care for and they live a long time, so you don't need to exchange turtle-pairs very often.
 
Does anybody here know enough about the Neo-Exodus campaign setting to know if it does anything interesting with high magic/magitek/Pervasive magic?
 
What are some implications of a high magic society?


I'm working on building a campaign set in Kelesh/Qadira (Pathfinder setting), and given it's a country explicitly not filled in so that the GM has more ability to add stuff, I'm trying to figure out high magic implications.


I've got a lot so far
  • Air forces
  • magical waste disposal
  • magical lighting in the cities
  • spells used to automate every day features, freeing up more leisure/art time
  • magic users are heavily regulated. Sorcerers are encouraged to join the military or government, wizards are trained in only certain licensed academies (same with Druids and Clerics)
    • certain spell schools are regulated, like divination
  • due to heavy use of wishcrafting reality is bleeding a bit thin in certain cities and certain regions of cities

I'm trying to hash out how magical divination and surveillance by the government works. What are some things that might be common for the government to do?

Some other thoughts (was a response to someone, adding it to this post to begin with)

Imperial (not satrap) Roads, buildings, etc are all made using wishes that are traded and bartered from the Genie empires in the elemental planes. They keep embassies in each satrapy of Kelesh just for that reason.

On top of that, lots of genies will sell wishes, not for money but for quests. Considering many, such as the advanced Shaitan Genies or normal Efreeti, can do three wishes a day at no cost to themselves (since they cannot utilize their own wishes), this is in their interest, to sell one or two and get someone to wish for something the genie wants as the final one.


That also gets to the point that even with magic schools being common, the amount of people that can do magic, even if more common there than anywhere else, is still less than 1% of the population. The majority will have intelligences around 10, charismas around 10, and wisdoms around 10, meaning magic is out of their grasp without a large monetary infusion. Which reminds me, some families probably pay for books or deals with Outsiders to raise the intelligences or charismas or wisdoms of underperforming family members to keep the family line impressive.


Undead are nonexistent in Kelesh, as the country is based quite heavily on Persia and Zoarastrianism, with shades of Judeo-Christian thought and Islamic thought as well. The country's primary deity, Sarenrae, is completely opposed to undead, and the church and Empire exist thanks to her direct favor giving them boons to allow them to keep power. The Empire is also super benevolent, thanks to this, and has a culture that prides itself on being able to do business and trade as a mark of worth. In addition, the culture values art above all else, and thus prefers handmade items with intelligent design beyond any kind of labor saving by magical means, precisely because magical means are common and are seen as cheap and lazy. There's some shades of the mythologized Israel with Solomon binding demons thrown in for the flavor as well.
Depends on how you want magic to work. By default dnd is rather high magic already, it's just not industrial so it doesn't seem that way.
 
Paizo's released the first set of Errata for the playtest. Mostly just rule patches for mistakes at this point (you can now sneak attack somebody by sneaking :p), but they're apparently looking into a lot of the issues that people have brought up. Looks like they might be willing to change things quite a bit based on feedback.
 
Society is what I'm looking at, as usually PF and DnD have high magic, but so few practitioners that the societies are usually high medieval to early renaissance.
Yeah, but like do you want widescale low magic or what? Currently a dnd society is already high magic, it's just that the way magic works incentivizes quality over quantity. An adventurer is an army in and of themselves, with high level ones able to transform, teleport, fly, turn people to stone, summoncastles, etc.

Societies would operate under similar constraints. You wouldn't see a lot of low level stuff, instead you'd get grand public works. Fountains of endless water, lifts into the sky, etc.
 
Yeah, but like do you want widescale low magic or what? Currently a dnd society is already high magic, it's just that the way magic works incentivizes quality over quantity. An adventurer is an army in and of themselves, with high level ones able to transform, teleport, fly, turn people to stone, summoncastles, etc.

Societies would operate under similar constraints. You wouldn't see a lot of low level stuff, instead you'd get grand public works. Fountains of endless water, lifts into the sky, etc.
Yeah, but your statement didn't really add to anything. I know DnD style magic is already generally high magic, but societies usually aren't.
I'm trying to figure out implications of a country that explicitly builds buildings and roads and stuff by buying wishes from genies, has an explicit magical airforce, and an explicit army branch that is just casters, in addition to quite a few country-specific wondrous items, lots of sorcerers due to all the genie magic, and the blessing of the deity Sarenrae to operate. The implication is that the country is supposed to be as strong, if not similar to, one of the many ancient civilizations that exists in the past of every DnD/PF style setting.
 
Yeah, but your statement didn't really add to anything. I know DnD style magic is already generally high magic, but societies usually aren't.
I'm trying to figure out implications of a country that explicitly builds buildings and roads and stuff by buying wishes from genies, has an explicit magical airforce, and an explicit army branch that is just casters, in addition to quite a few country-specific wondrous items, lots of sorcerers due to all the genie magic, and the blessing of the deity Sarenrae to operate. The implication is that the country is supposed to be as strong, if not similar to, one of the many ancient civilizations that exists in the past of every DnD/PF style setting.
What I was trying to get at is that you seem to assume a high magic society would look like ours. I disagree.

Rather it should look like something out of the Greek epics or Norse sagas. You shouldn't have an airforce, you should have thor.
 
Yeah, but your statement didn't really add to anything. I know DnD style magic is already generally high magic, but societies usually aren't.
I'm trying to figure out implications of a country that explicitly builds buildings and roads and stuff by buying wishes from genies, has an explicit magical airforce, and an explicit army branch that is just casters, in addition to quite a few country-specific wondrous items, lots of sorcerers due to all the genie magic, and the blessing of the deity Sarenrae to operate. The implication is that the country is supposed to be as strong, if not similar to, one of the many ancient civilizations that exists in the past of every DnD/PF style setting.

If you're looking for something else to mine you could try the Sorcerously Advanced alpha. Magic is sufficiently ubiquitous there to make 30 mph flight common, immortality strong enough to survive and recover from complete bodily destruction is also common (You need to be able to use somebody's immortality flaw against them to actually kill them, you can still be subjected to fates worse than death if you don't suicide before they occur). There's universal repositories(7 of them) people can connect to that are basically primitive wireless internet. Flaming swords and shocking touches are something basically anyone can do.

Sorcerously Advanced - ALPHA VERSION - Sufficiently Advanced
 
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What I was trying to get at is that you seem to assume a high magic society would look like ours. I disagree.

Rather it should look like something out of the Greek epics or Norse sagas. You shouldn't have an airforce, you should have thor.
One Thor doesn't win a battle, especially with Vancian casting being a part of the setting. Yes, you have your Thor, but that person has no way to defend a country that is comparable in size to the Achaemenid Persian Empire, over 1.5million square miles.

One guy is not going to be able to fight armies of crazy cyclops that can choose to just roll 20s on anything they want at least once a day, if not more. One guy isn't fighting the average CR14+ monsters that swarm out from the Pit of Gormuz at regular intervals (giant pit that reaches into the prison of a super evil murder crazy deity, corrupts things to serve him if they stay near it too long). One guy is strong, but when you have monsters that literally can (in lore) take on entire armies of 13th+ level casters and be just fine afterwards, just having a few guys isn't an option.

(there's a monster in lore that too enough damage that 1000 wishes are needed to fix it, 1 wish for each wizard that dealt a killing blow. Monster is not dead, just asleep. It came from next door to Kelesh. There's still one monster like it loose and running around too).

Also, their neighbor to the south is a not!India that's literally right out of the pages of the Mahabarata or Ramayana, so stupid crazy weapons and gods and everything else running around everywhere causing mayhem.

One guy, or even a pantheon of 20th level casters, isn't going to be able to handle all of that on there own. That is what this empire has to deal with. Even in Greece, you had occasions for all the heroes to come together, like at Troy or on the Argos. Greece just didn't have a mythologically common way for soldiers to fly, because if they did you can bet your boots that the battle of Troy would have had flying Greeks vs flying Trojans. if Pegasi were common, the Greek Heroes and soldiers absolutely would be riding those into battle. An air force makes complete sense, if you have dragon riders, elemental servants, and loads of sorcerous individuals who inherently get flying powers. Plus, the fact that I can finally have a country do a Boots of the Cat aerial insertion from low orbit is pleasing :p
 
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One Thor doesn't win a battle, especially with Vancian casting being a part of the setting. Yes, you have your Thor, but that person has no way to defend a country that is comparable in size to the Achaemenid Persian Empire, over 1.5million square miles.

One guy is not going to be able to fight armies of crazy cyclops that can choose to just roll 20s on anything they want at least once a day, if not more. One guy isn't fighting the average CR14+ monsters that swarm out from the Pit of Gormuz at regular intervals (giant pit that reaches into the prison of a super evil murder crazy deity, corrupts things to serve him if they stay near it too long). One guy is strong, but when you have monsters that literally can (in lore) take on entire armies of 13th+ level casters and be just fine afterwards, just having a few guys isn't an option.

(there's a monster in lore that too enough damage that 1000 wishes are needed to fix it, 1 wish for each wizard that dealt a killing blow. Monster is not dead, just asleep. It came from next door to Kelesh. There's still one monster like it loose and running around too).

Also, their neighbor to the south is a not!India that's literally right out of the pages of the Mahabarata or Ramayana, so stupid crazy weapons and gods and everything else running around everywhere causing mayhem.

One guy, or even a pantheon of 20th level casters, isn't going to be able to handle all of that on there own. That is what this empire has to deal with. Even in Greece, you had occasions for all the heroes to come together, like at Troy or on the Argos. Greece just didn't have a mythologically common way for soldiers to fly, because if they did you can bet your boots that the battle of Troy would have had flying Greeks vs flying Trojans. if Pegasi were common, the Greek Heroes and soldiers absolutely would be riding those into battle. An air force makes complete sense, if you have dragon riders, elemental servants, and loads of sorcerous individuals who inherently get flying powers. Plus, the fact that I can finally have a country do a Boots of the Cat aerial insertion from low orbit is pleasing :p
If one thor isn't enough then you make more thors. The point I'm trying to make is tha high magic doesn't mean mashed forces or industrialisation, societies don't have to be organized the way ours is, and doing so is a waste of oppurtunity. Dnd is explicitly set up to be a world of heroes, where individuals have the ability to shape nations. Embrace that. Don't create armies patterned after our own. Make an army of heroes.
 
If one thor isn't enough then you make more thors. The point I'm trying to make is tha high magic doesn't mean mashed forces or industrialisation, societies don't have to be organized the way ours is, and doing so is a waste of oppurtunity. Dnd is explicitly set up to be a world of heroes, where individuals have the ability to shape nations. Embrace that. Don't create armies patterned after our own. Make an army of heroes.
Well, yes, that's what the branch of the army that deals with wizards is.

But you can't operate a society with like 50 dudes that are 20th level. Who does the police work? Who does the mundane monster fighting? Who does the road patrol? Like, any society, even a highly magical one, is going to have all those branches filled.

Armies make complete sense, you can't rule a region of of the world bigger than the IRL Middle East, and filled with about as many warzones, with just a few guys.


I'm not building a new world, I'm building a country that already fits into an existing world. The average person, even an above average person, isn't going to hit an Int, Str, Con, Cha, Dex, or Wis high enough to be a player character. Sure, there are a lot of them, but they're always going to be a minority, otherwise the world wouldn't exist because a bunch of evil crazy cultists could just punch each other for several years to get enough XP to be wizards, loop a sun through a demiplane, and then gate open the demiplane destroying the planet with a plasma rail gun. So then you have to work backwards, trying to figure out where the balance is so you don't have random cultists that want to destroy the world able to be 17+ level wizards. Thus you get to the point where you realize having a high enough Int, Wis, or Cha to cast most spells isn't going to happen.

So how does a country make up for this? Well, they presumably focus on using the few they have (enough to be a branch of the military, but a small one) to help outfit and equip the rest of their more mundane soldiers to allow them to better project force. Action economy kills pretty much anything. Like even with an AC of 50, 5% of the time your level 4, 5, or 6 common soldier is going to hit them. Sure, it will probably only do 5 or so damage. but then you place them on flying contraptions all around the battlefield, and as they all shoot waves of arrows at a PC style person, enough will hit to drop that person to 0 really quickly. Actually bothering to outfit people is the competent thing to do. Because then you have forces needed for when shit hits the fan, or to deter enemies from bothering you because they can tell a fight would be more protracted than a couple rounds of a bunch of really powerful dues hurting each other. Or to have forces to be able to loan to allies. Think the Mahabharata, and the fact that, yeah, the main guys had a bunch of weapons from the Hindu Gods, and a god was their bro and helping them, but armies were still used and fought each other. Having a lot of guys, in addition to really strong guys, makes sense.


The issue is you can't just plop a country with thousands of 20th+ level guys into any existing DnD or Pathfinder setting, because that totally means you have to redo everything, and really makes magic unimpressive and boring. A high magic society can still have the normal caster/normal person dichotomy of normal DnD settings, the empire just has the resources to utilize those people in a much better way than most other settings. More money and influence to pay for permanent spells and magical items. A wider pool of individuals to pull from, allowing power concentration. Etc. Even a country couldn't support the purchase habits of thousands to hundreds of thousands of 20th level casters.
 
@The Imperator @shepsquared

Now that I've finally figured out how to import the playtest maps in Roll20, I'm pretty much ready to run the first adventure.

Link me to your characters when they're ready, or let me know if you need any help building them.
 
So I may need some more time to build a second character.

When were people free again? My IRL group is being very unhelpful and saying they don't know specific times yet, so I'm trying to figure out how to plan around their not planning well.
 
So I may need some more time to build a second character.

When were people free again? My IRL group is being very unhelpful and saying they don't know specific times yet, so I'm trying to figure out how to plan around their not planning well.
I think we were aiming for Friday evening (Saturday morning in Australia). Time kind of depends on what works for you guys. What time zone are you in?
 
I should be free most of the day after around 1pmish on Friday eastern time.

EDIT: What was @shepsquared playing? I can add a DPS Barbarian/Paladin or a Cleric healer, as my second, depending on what they are playing.
 
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I should be free most of the day after around 1pmish on Friday eastern time.

EDIT: What was @shepsquared playing? I can add a DPS Barbarian/Paladin or a Cleric healer, as my second, depending on what they are playing.
It probably won't be quite that early. I get off work at 0700 Pacific time and would like to get a few hours of sleep in. And if Shep's in Melbourne, then they're seven hours earlier than where I am.

I think they previously suggested an interest in either a fighter or sorcerer.
 
It probably won't be quite that early. I get off work at 0700 Pacific time and would like to get a few hours of sleep in. And if Shep's in Melbourne, then they're seven hours earlier than where I am.

I think they previously suggested an interest in either a fighter or sorcerer.
I'll whip up a cleric then. I'll let him do the do damage focused classes, I'll be support. Just like I like :p

EDIT: Gonna be NG for the cleric, hopefully our party is good because that's the best alignments. Well, or NE.
 
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Yeah, building one now, they're a class that needs every stat but Int, not a fan of that design.

They need Cha to heal, Wis for spells, and Str and Con for combat, and then Dex to get crit less. We'll see how this goes.
Don't see why clerics are still going off Cha instead of Wis for their channeling when every other spellcaster gets to use their primary casting stat for their powers.

Actually, yeah, the class being too MAD might be an issue to bring up in the survey.
 
Don't see why clerics are still going off Cha instead of Wis for their channeling when every other spellcaster gets to use their primary casting stat for their powers.

Actually, yeah, the class being too MAD might be an issue to bring up in the survey.
I'll add that in notes. The issue with being super mad now, as opposed to 1e, is that crits can occur simply by beating AC, so Dex becomes way more important.

Also not a fan of crits on skill checks either.
 
Also not a fan of crits on skill checks either.
The crit fails are extremely problematic, especially because some of the DCs are not balanced appropriately for 1st level characters, especially when it's no longer possible to take 20.

If you were making a rogue, I would tell you to buy spare lockpicks, because you're gonna break a lot of them. :p
 
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