Dungeon Crawler You!

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I'm pretty sure that's not actually the case. If you participate, you get the box. Now, we might get mediocre rewards if we're not participating enough, but we should still get the boxes. Obviously we shouldn't be sitting on our hands, but our strengths aren't in direct combat anymore.

Speaking of boxes, we should definitely try to copy Pirate Captain's double boss box ability a couple times. It's not as game-breaking as many others, but it'll combo nicely with Wheeler Dealer.

Only ask questions you don't mind Borant hearing.

As a manager, he can cast spells/craft items for us. Just not in combat.
Ok, revised to obsfucate: What spells and craft skills do you have?

As for Pirate... we kinda need to find someone who has that class. Or give Leo FCA to take it before we can copy it.
Not a bad idea, maybe next floor, or the one after, as her getting Pirate's Captain on top of Wheeler would be strong.
 
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Ah, I thought it was supposed to copy Drew's spells for next floor, not Levi's to us.
That's quite interesting.
Both were ideas. The getting Levi a copy of makespellbook is something that would be perfect for the downtime while they wait for Leo and Tay to do their change. Iirc 8h, that means 8 tries to make a spellbook of making spellbooks.

And then Levi can do that when bored.
 
Ok, I just saw this:
Spell: Create Spellbook
Cost: 15 MP
Casting Time: 1 hour
Cooldown: if successful, 6 hours

You may attempt to create ex nihilo a spellbook for any spell you know. The attempt requires 1 hour of silent, unmoving meditation. If the attempt fails, there is no cooldown. Chance of success depends on Intelligence, skill level, and the spell you are attempting to create.

Skill: Scribe Scroll
You may attempt to write a scroll for any spell you know, or duplicate any scroll of which you have read the description. Requires writing materials and 5 minutes of effort. Chance of success depends on Intelligence, skill level, and the spell you are attempting to scribe.

So, scribe the Scroll of Create Spellbook. It's just 5 minutes, and just cost paper and ink instead of casting it.
Then cast the scroll of Create Spellbook to create a spellbook of Create Spellbook
 
Ok, I just saw this:
Spell: Create Spellbook
Cost: 15 MP
Casting Time: 1 hour
Cooldown: if successful, 6 hours

You may attempt to create ex nihilo a spellbook for any spell you know. The attempt requires 1 hour of silent, unmoving meditation. If the attempt fails, there is no cooldown. Chance of success depends on Intelligence, skill level, and the spell you are attempting to create.

Skill: Scribe Scroll
You may attempt to write a scroll for any spell you know, or duplicate any scroll of which you have read the description. Requires writing materials and 5 minutes of effort. Chance of success depends on Intelligence, skill level, and the spell you are attempting to scribe.

So, scribe the Scroll of Create Spellbook. It's just 5 minutes, and just cost paper and ink instead of casting it.
Then cast the scroll of Create Spellbook to create a spellbook of Create Spellbook

This would probably work once but I imagine it would get patched out as soon as it occurs.

Edit: Although once we have one spellbook of Create Spellbook we could just pass it around no?
 
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This would probably work once but I imagine it would get patched out as soon as it occurs.

Edit: Although once we have one spellbook of Create Spellbook we could just pass it around no?
Sure. It's just a cheaper/surer way of getting the Create Spellbook spell onto Levi.
We really need to know Levi's spell list. His class was Battle Klepto, IDK what spells he learnt. He might as well have no spells known.

EDIT: in DCC, Spellbooks are single use item that teaches a spell before evaporating.

Also, could Moose get a class if he gains sapience this floor? And he won't if he gains sapience on later floors?
We should quickly tack a +2 Int on him for him to get a class. Maybe even a Cerberus race :p
 
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Pretty sure Character Actor auto levels itself when you go down a floor. It's part of the skill, not the class that levels it up.
This is correct.

Gotta admit that TWO BODY PROBLEM not being race locked is rather weird.
Yeah, it should have been. Mistake on my part.

Edit: Although once we have one spellbook of Create Spellbook we could just pass it around no?
Using a spellbook destroys it. (I'm a bit behind so may have missed someone else saying that.)

Doesn't it mean we should get 2 body later? You wear it, and duplicate it.
If you make a new body first, you have 1 item to be shared by 2 bodies.
Breaking it down algorithmically, the process goes like this, with all of it happening essentially instantaneously:
  1. Two Body Problem triggers (either because you just now finished class selection or you arrived on a new floor)
  2. The system makes a list of all items equipped (not simply carried or in inventory) on all existing bodies
  3. The system rolls dice for each item on that list and, if you roll high enough, that item is duplicated Yes, it is possible to get no items if you roll badly enough
  4. A new body appears
  5. For each item that was duplicated, that item is equipped onto the appropriate spot on the new body


I'm saying that copying the multiple bodies is definitely a key first choice, and once we're done with that getting level 1 copies of an ability that's meant to be level 4 means well always be fairly terrible.
You're not wrong, but note that skills train quite quickly up to level 5 and relatively quickly up to level 9. Also, Levi said that XP is partially based on the challenge you face, meaning that if you're using underleveled spells/skills against powerful creatures then those spells/skills will level more than they would against lower-threat opponents.

For myself, I'm not liking Doppelganger much. Katia in DCC was having trouble with it at the start. You need the skill & concentration to carve your body up into the race you want. She was having odd features and couldn't do much until they got a specialized table for her.
Pedantic clarification: A doppleganger makes themself look like a person or race but does not become that race. In particular, they don't get any special abilities of that race. There are edge cases, such as "will this panel that accept my retina print as coming from the person I'm emulating" or etc.

To clarify my previous question, what if there's a class that's basically only items. Technically speaking, Battlin' Baker has only one actionable. As I assume items don't count as actionables, what happens if a character actor selects that class?
I haven't decided. Levi isn't sure. The Character Actor skill is quite rare and he's only seen it a few times.

Local access tv psychic is the better option here, I think. Silver tongue on drew would be ridiculous for dealing with npcs.
Keep in mind that Silver-Tongued Liar depends on the user's ability to think on their feet, and also on their force of personality. I'm not saying that Drew completely lacks those things, but he's definitely not as qualified for the role as Taylor or even Calliope would be.

Could we get a couple of examples [of catkin subspecies]?
Added to chapter 24.4:

"Speaking of animal-related things," Calliope said, "what about the catkin race? When we were talking about it you said there were some really good ones. Give us some examples?"

"Sure," Levi said, leaning back and tapping his lips in thought. "So, you've got your basic ones. Tigrans are very strong, very tough, and pretty fast. They've got nasty claws that give the Unarmed Combat and Powerful Strike skills. Cheetarans start with a high Dodge and can use bursts of superspeed for escape, tactical positioning, and damage enhancement. Those are pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum, and there's a bunch of other subspecies that fit somewhere in the middle—lynxans, leopardans, and so on. Then you get into the really wild options."

"Yeah?" Calliope said, leaning forward with rapt attention. She was so invested that she had stopped working her way through the plate of miniature cannoli.

"Yeah," Levi said. "See, the various subspecies fall into two categories: there's the group where they take a real cat and give it stats and skills suggestive of that animal. Tigers are big and strong, cheetahs are fast, lions have a powerful roar that functions as a sonic attack, and so on.

"Then there's the ones where they build off a mythological cat." He sipped his tea, thinking. "There's a subspecies based off the legend of Cat Sith. It eats the souls of enemies it kills, powering itself up in the process. I haven't actually seen it, only heard about it from other guides, so I'm not sure what its base stats are, or how it works mechanically. Might be simply stat boosts, might be some of the abilities of the downed foe, might be something else.

"There's a displacer catkin subspecies. They're permanently invisible, with an illusionary image of themselves that's always about a meter from where they actually are. The image shifts around sometimes, changing where it is relative to them.

"The wampus catkin has psychic attacks, the killakee can turn intangible for short periods, the kamadan has six poison snakes growing out of her torso, and the lammasu is required to worship a deity and can therefore cast spells from that deity's domain." He raised his lower left arm, one claw extended, while simultaneously sipping his tea. "Worshipping a god is a real crapshoot and I strongly advise against it. I was relieved to see that none of you ended up with a cleric or paladin class that would have required you to pick a god. Gods are generally more trouble then they're worth and I advise staying faaaar away from them if you can."

He smiled. "And then there's the hellcatkin."

Calliope leaned farther forward, her eyes shining and one foot tapping furiously with impatience.

"Now, I've only seen this once in all the time I've been in the dungeon," Levi cautioned. "So you really shouldn't get your hopes up. Even if Drew's luck aura is in place—which it probably isn't—then it's still extremely unlikely you would get this subspecies." He paused, looking uncertain, then shook his head. "In fact, you know what? Never mind, I shouldn't even have mentioned it. Just forget I said anything. Catkin is a solid racial choice with good options, but if it were me I would lean towards—"

"Come on!" Calliope burst out. "You gotta tell me!"

"It's not a good idea, okay?" Levi said. "You'll just get your hopes up, which means you won't consider other options and you'll take the race because you're sure you'll get hellcatkin and then you'll be disappointed when you don't. Really, I shouldn't have said anything."

"Stop teasing her," Taylor said, amused. "I know it's fun, but her head might explode. I promise I'll make her give the other races a serious look."

Levi snorted. "Way to ruin my fun, man. Fine. Seriously though, this thing is extremely rare. Not 'literally seen it once ever' rare, but only a clawful of times.

"The dungeon monster called a 'hellcat' is built from a conflation of various mythological entities. It's pitch black, very big, very strong, permanently on fire, vomits lava, inflicts a wasting debuff on anyone who touches its tail, and so on. A hellcatkin is a scaled down version of that, based on the premise that the spirit of a dead human banged a hellcat and the progency was kicked out of the underworld. They keep the 'pitch black and on fire' part, they have claws as long as mine"—he wiggled the banana-length weapons that extended from his fingers—"except much sharper. They generally don't get all of the powers of their progenitors, but they do get a subset of them. That means some combination of turning intangible, vomiting lava, literally ripping your soul out through your nose, and so on. It's like getting a Celestial box at race selection. Let me emphasize that you should not expect to get it—in fact, let's reverse that: you should expect to not get it."

Calliope's eyes were shining. "That is zoomy to the core," she breathed.

"Calliope," Taylor said, his voice filled with warning. "Get those stars out of your eyes. Catkin is a mystery box. Sure, maybe you roll a natural twenty fifty times in a row and get that monster thing, but it sounds like you're much more likely to just be fairly strong and fast. Compare that to satori, where you can literally kill people by thinking about it, or cygnan, where you can fly. Oh, or doppleganger—you'd be very tough right from the start and if we get you a backpack and some metal you could hit like a truck and transform into things and laugh in the fact of anyone who hits you, and and and..."

She bobbed her head. "Yeah, okay. Still, Unc, you gotta admit—even leaving the last one aside, some of those catkin options sound amazing."

"Sure," Levi said. "But most of them either don't have a Constitution bonus or they have an actual penalty. The dungeon's conception of cats is that they're generally fast but fragile. There's a few exceptions, like the tigrans and panthrons, but if you go catkin then it's probably going to be risky to keep being a frontline fighter."

She frowned and deflated. "That's pop," she grumbled. "Still...they're fast, right?"

"Yes," Levi admitted. "Most of them. Most of them get a Dex bonus and a lot of them get a Dodge skill."

"Then let's keep it on the list," she said.
 
Current state of people's spells and skills so that everyone has the information:

ActionableLevelMPBase LevelBonuses
Yo-Yo11--83
Combat Specialization: Yo-Yo5--5
Flexible Weapons5--5
Running5--5
Sword2--2
Incendiary Devices4--4
Dangerous Incendiary Devices4--4
Chemistry2--2
Skill: Shotgun5--50
Skill: Pistol2--20
Spell: Gold Grabber313
Spell: Pyrophilia535
Spell: Summon Yo-Yo313

ActionableLevelMPBase LevelBonuses
Skill: Running5--5
Skill: Spear7--43
Skill: Shotgun5--50
Skill: Pistol2--20
Skill: Weapon Focus (spears)4--40
Skill: Pain Resistance3--30
Spell: Smoke Form83+8
Item Spell: Gravity Anvil15------
Spell: Torch919

ActionableLevelMPBase LevelBonuses
Skateboarding9--63
Running3--3
Skill: Summon Object (skateboard only)6--15
Sword5--41
Thrown Weapons6--51
Skill: Shotgun5--50
Skill: Pistol2--20
Regeneration1--1
Item Spell: Shin Breaker100----
Spell: Feathers Fall222
Spell: Gravity Resurfacing6551
Spell: Taunt535
 
[X] Plan: Wheeling, Dealing, System Screwing Multacorpalan

In the end, I think that the doppelganger is actually better than even most of the mythological catkin examples. Being sort of invisible or having poison snakes isn't really as useful as the tanky metal shenanigans the doppelganger can do. Plus, the potential of the shapeshifter kit as a whole is massive.
 
Breaking it down algorithmically, the process goes like this, with all of it happening essentially instantaneously:
  1. Two Body Problem triggers (either because you just now finished class selection or you arrived on a new floor)
  2. The system makes a list of all items equipped (not simply carried or in inventory) on all existing bodies
  3. The system rolls dice for each item on that list and, if you roll high enough, that item is duplicated Yes, it is possible to get no items if you roll badly enough
  4. A new body appears
  5. For each item that was duplicated, that item is equipped onto the appropriate spot on the new body
Yeah, equipment is gonna be an challenge for Multi. You get 2 bodies, 1 drop/box, and no guarantee of duplicating the equipment on floor down.
Most will end up with basic equipment.
Multi will need strong skills, and fast.

At end of the floor, we need Character Actor on Taylor stat.
 
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A thing I'm a bit worried about is that if we go doppleganger we might not be able to help Calliope learn how to use it.
The difference comes in that the other character we know of who had the race had issues with showing up as a human at all Until she met up with Carl and Donut's manager Mordecai, who gave her tips and hints for holding a humanoid form.
(Might be that was because he was a changeling, he had more experience with changing forms, even though the races aren't the same and all or it might just be that he had experience dealing with crawlers with this race.)

So you guys hope that Levi will manage to teach Calliope to keep a form correctly instead of turning into a pile of goop.

Then again, Katia's Guide was utter dogshite and nothing more needs to be said about that person.

This might be a reason to go for the catkin path. (just saying.)
 
PSA: Voting will remain open at least a bit longer.

I had said that I would close voting at 2pm (which really means "2pm or whenever I get to my computer and remember to do it", because I'm much too lazy to figure out where to adjust the tally system to end) but it looks like the discussion and voting are still fairly active. Let's leave it open for at least another few hours -- say minimum of 10pm tonight. If things have cooled off by then I'll close it.

Race/class are extremely important decisions and I want to be sure that no one feels like they were rushed or missed the cutoff because they were still reading a huge amount of text.
 
PSA: Voting will remain open at least a bit longer.

I had said that I would close voting at 2pm (which really means "2pm or whenever I get to my computer and remember to do it", because I'm much too lazy to figure out where to adjust the tally system to end) but it looks like the discussion and voting are still fairly active. Let's leave it open for at least another few hours -- say minimum of 10pm tonight. If things have cooled off by then I'll close it.

Race/class are extremely important decisions and I want to be sure that no one feels like they were rushed or missed the cutoff because they were still reading a huge amount of text.
10 pm tonight in your timezone means

right?
edit: fixing the bbcode for time display.
 
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If only there were more of Taylor we could train skills faster... Oh wait.
The only skills he has that he can train are:
1, crafting and bombs.
2, Yoyo has to depends if his yoyo duplicates...
3, Gold grabber could be decent. Flank enemies via blink and grab from opposite.
4. Firearms which will run out.
5. Blink

Mostly equipment and items limited, except Gold Grabber and blink.
 
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This would probably work once but I imagine it would get patched out as soon as it occurs.

Edit: Although once we have one spellbook of Create Spellbook we could just pass it around no?
Can patches come at any time? For some reason I thought they could only patch things at the end of a floor.
 
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