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You say that like an infinite number of things with one bullet is better than one thing with infinite bullets. Especially when we can straight up dodge everything from the a thing once we know it well enough.
We cannot banish this Ginosaji. It will beat us to death, every second of every day of every year. Because we're not a planeswalker. We straight up don't have what it takes to live as a Magical Girl. Jade has the same level of trauma we do. She takes all of her magic, every day, just to cleanse. To heal from the whacks of this particularly evil spoon. We are not on her level.
 
We cannot banish this Ginosaji. It will beat us to death, every second of every day of every year. Because we're not a planeswalker. We straight up don't have what it takes to live as a Magical Girl. Jade has the same level of trauma we do. She takes all of her magic, every day, just to cleanse. To heal from the whacks of this particularly evil spoon. We are not on her level.
Jade actually has more, quoth the GM.
 
That... might actually be possible, with both green and black working on it. Might need some blue, but I could definitely see it.

I'd think WBG, more? I'm still not really sure if cleansing falls under white or black though.

We're not a planeswalker. Unless I missed something major, that goal is flat out beyond our grasp without is wish, and likely is even if we do wish.

It's a bit of a blue sky idea, but I feel like we might be able to reverse engineer the wards MGs are using to consecrate cities against Grief in the long term. If you do that to avoid Wraiths and then stop having any MGs in the area, there's no real issues other than Walpurgis coming to visit.

It's a long project, but Green is decently good at enchantments, and maybe we could get some Auras on cities eventually? Not really saving the world but it's a big step up in terms of reducing deaths from witches.
 
It's a bit of a blue sky idea, but I feel like we might be able to reverse engineer the wards MGs are using to consecrate cities against Grief in the long term. If you do that to avoid Wraiths and then stop having any MGs in the area, there's no real issues other than Walpurgis coming to visit.

It's a long project, but Green is decently good at enchantments, and maybe we could get some Auras on cities eventually? Not really saving the world but it's a big step up in terms of reducing deaths from witches.
That's gonna be... hard. Wraiths are literally what Kyubey advertises Witches as, physical manifestations of negative emotion. To get rid of Wraiths you'd have to get rid of negative emotion, which... well, that's how you get Incubators and Lotus Eater Machines.
 
To get rid of Wraiths you'd have to get rid of negative emotion, which... well, that's how you get Incubators and Lotus Eater Machines.

Nah, I think it's more like circulating the negative emotions so that they don't condense, or at least if they do condense they do it somewhere outside the city limits.

Warding on houses is the more immediate thing that would be nice (And hey, Azura already said that would be a commodity, so we should try to figure out how to do it whether we contract or not. Wards are useful.) and from there it's just seeing if we can disrupt the formation process, or slow it down, or etc?

I guess less "get rid of witches forever" and more "make witches not a problem that requires lots of magical girls to solve"?
 
Nah, I think it's more like circulating the negative emotions so that they don't condense, or at least if they do condense they do it somewhere outside the city limits.

Warding on houses is the more immediate thing that would be nice (And hey, Azura already said that would be a commodity, so we should try to figure out how to do it whether we contract or not. Wards are useful.) and from there it's just seeing if we can disrupt the formation process, or slow it down, or etc?

I guess less "get rid of witches forever" and more "make witches not a problem that requires lots of magical girls to solve"?
Wait, are we talking Wraiths or Witches here?
 
That's gonna be... hard. Wraiths are literally what Kyubey advertises Witches as, physical manifestations of negative emotion. To get rid of Wraiths you'd have to get rid of negative emotion, which... well, that's how you get Incubators and Lotus Eater Machines.
I assume that the wards would push the Wraiths out side of the cities rather than eliminating negative emotions.
that said pushing all wraiths out of the cities is a good way to create a cut rate Remnant out of PMMM earth, only this time the moon is intact.
 
Okay then. Reason not to Witch.

Primus. You begin to acquire grief.

Secundus. You have the potential to Grief Spiral and Witch-Out

Tertius. With our characters continual worries about the state of her soul the Witchbomb will likely be the end of us.

Quartus. There really isn't any long term benefit to Witching that can't conceivably be replicated by our Mage abilities.

Quintus. In any setting that has heavy Faustian themes you don't make deals with the Mephistopheles Expy.

Sextus. One of the main reasons for playing this quest is the potential to win without going Magical Girl.

Septimus. The Kyubey system is evil and should not be supported.

Octavius. OOC we know what wishing does so if you purposefully want to inflict that upon a 14 year old girl. Well you know what you're doing.

Nonus. Having a Lich body is kind of Anti-Green

Decimus. Potentially having to spend more Mana to stave off Grief. Jade was able to wipe out a bunch of new Witches with fire. We don't have fire and we're unlikely to hit a giant pocket of new Wiches so any time we are forced to clense it's a waste of mana. Also we don't have our spark to watch clense Mana so we don't even know how to start like Jade was shown.

Almost all of this is OOC knowledge and thus invalid. What is valid is that Aria expects witches to keep hunting her until she wishes.



Well it was in the translation you gave me. Also you're still overlooking the fact that the Grief may be siphoned off by Kybuey while the wish is being granted.

I answered that later. You disliking the answer isn't ignoring the question. How about this though, Madokami can't witch, but is still using magic.

And again :Citation Needed:. The Grief system is the best system for Kyubey. That doesn't mean that he created it. The Greif system may only work the way it is set up. Until you can prove otherwise I don't think you should go around kicking out possibly load-bearing pillars.

He explicitly states that other emotions work and he chose hope-to-grief for efficiency. That means that that was a conscious decision and thus an add on. He as trying to make himself look good to Madoka If the other methods would not have allowed magic, he would have said so.

Actually he really isn't. He doesn't understand human emotions and his motivations aren't the same as a humans. You can't judge him based on human morality. You can say that he does terrible things but he really isn't a terrible person. He just kind of acts according to motives that we can't agree with but are perfectly reasonable to his race.

Doing terrible things is what makes one a terrible person. The only way to not be a terrible person is to never do a single terrible thing ever. Him thinking his motivations are reasonable is irrelevant. The only relevant thing is that he deliberately treats others badly.

:Citation Needed:
You're still assuming for a system that works without accumulating Grief without actually providing evidence.

Kyuubey himself says it would work. It would just be less efficient.

The energy source can power magic but that doesn't mean that it is the magic. That source is emotions but emotion aren't magic. They just seem to defy the laws of thermodynamics but that just means that Kyubey in all his wisdom can't figure out how they do so. That doesn't make them magic, that just means he doesn't know the answer.
"Magic" is the term Kyuubey uses to describe violations of his understanding of physics via emotion. You're splitting hairs that don't exist.

The amount of Greif that would most likely be produced by Wishing can easily cause an instant-Witchout. If potential = their max reserves then making a wish equaling their potential wound then equal their reserves and then a Witch appears.

Even assuming this is true, it would be to his advantage to leave some grief there. Which he never does. And again, he says other emotions would work.


:Citation Needed:

The main point of your entire argument is that Grief is an add-on but you have yet to actually prove that it is not an integral part of the system.

He says himself that it isn't an integral part f the system. It's just there for efficiency.

Citing yourself is in bad form old chap. Here, have another.
What Ho!
:Citation Needed:

Repeating yourself without citing yourself is self-plagiarism which is the actual thing that is bad form.

I'm sorry did you just say it's a bad thing to plan ahead when planning for the future? :confused:

No He said it's a bad thing for your plans to depend of something ludicrously unlikely.
 
How about this though, Madokami can't witch, but is still using magic.
Madokami isn't human, so if you're using that to argue humans being able to use corruptionless magic you may have a problem.
(I honestly have no Idea what exactly you're arguing, I stopped tracking that back-and-forth a while ago.)
 
I answered that later. You disliking the answer isn't ignoring the question. How about this though, Madokami can't witch, but is still using magic.
Point of order, She explicitly did Witch, it's just that she then punched it in the face because causality couldn't stand up to her puppy dog eyes.
 
*facepalm*

At this point, @Sereg, @ Everybody else, is arguing about the relationship between humans and PMMM magic really relevant to the quest?

@LostDeviljho I think you may need to calm down and/or sleep if the sudden rash of swearing is any indicator.


I'm going back to bed. Gnight. Too tired for this shit.


EDIT: Also, could I get a vote tally?

EDIT 2: Buck it, getting up and updating since all the arguing is seriously demoralizing and I want to offset it with something else. :(

...I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this precedent. :V
 
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1.6: Phrasing!
Went "by line" for this part whilst incorporating the harmless bits to make sure this update wasn't about 80 words long. :p


[X] Have Kyubey put your pendant back exactly where he found it exactly how he first found it.

"Kyubey, could you please put my pendant back exactly where you found it, in the exact position you found it in?"

"If that is what you desire, it is within my capabilities."

Kyubey slowly wiggles his way out of Azura's grip and pads over to you. Thee bunnycat retrieves your heirloom from your hands before heading off into the darkness.

Several minutes pass before he returns.


[X] Use telepathy to talk to Kyubey.
-[X] Tell him about what you've learned from studying your pendant.
--[X] Ask if he has any advice for what growth could mean.


"Kyubey? I learned that my pendant is alive and is either itself enormous or contains something massive. I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to work unless it's smaller on the outside. Oh, and I think I might be able to control the power inside at some point, but I'd need to grow first? I'm not sure if the growth is supposed to be literal or some sort of metaphor. Do you have any ideas what it might mean?"

"I would prefer not to bias you toward or against any possibilities. It could easily harm research data."

You glare at the bunnycat. "That is extremely unhelpful."

"I apologize, but I believe this is for the best."

-[X] Ask him if there is anything else he can do for you without you making a Wish.

"Is there anything you can do for me without me making a wish?"

If a bit of annoyance leaks into your tone, you think you can be forgiven for it. You're tired, in serious pain, and Kyubey is being unnecessarily difficult.

"Possibly. My primary method of helping the human race is by turning them into magical girls. As you are refusing that particular method of assistance, I am not sure what you expect me to do." Kyubey holds up one paw. "This body has no thumbs."

Kyubey pauses and appears to consider something.

"I suppose there is one thing I can do to help: sharing information. Although it may harm research data, your life takes precedent. Green mana appears to be heavily tied to natural forests, plains, and similar areas. The last person to awaken their Mana without becoming a magical girl did so by being cursed by a witch, having a significant portion of her body eaten, and nearly having the rest of her be eaten while she was still alive and conscious."

You recoil backward, momentarily forgetting about your pain. Kyubey ignores your horror and continues onward.

"Ultimately, she manifested an alternate personality, destroyed most of the surrounding area, and needed the services of a magical girl specializing in healing in order to recover. She barely survived. Upon regaining consciousness, she exhibited multiple symptoms associated with insanity and killed all those who attempted to speak with her, with one exception. She vanished within twenty-four hours of waking up."



[] Wake up Azura.
-[] And ask her if she could please leave.
--[] What do you tell her to try and get her to leave? (Write-in)

[] Ask Azura more questions.
-[] Write-in

[] Ask Kyubey some questions.
-[] Write-in

[] Curl up into a ball and go to sleep.

[] Write-in



Write-ins for "Make a wish" may be done at any time, although results may vary depending on when it is done.
 
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" killed all those who attempted to speak with her" Well technically he isnt lying lol. She did kill everyone that tried to speak to her. However the only ones trying to talk to her happened to be Kyubeys bodies.
 
*facepalm*

At this point, @Sereg, @ Everybody else, is arguing about the relationship between humans and PMMM magic really relevant to the quest?

@LostDeviljho I think you may need to calm down and/or sleep if the sudden rash of swearing is any indicator.


I'm going back to bed. Gnight. Too tired for this shit.


EDIT: Also, could I get a vote tally?

EDIT 2: Buck it, getting up and updating since all the arguing is seriously demoralizing and I want to offset it with something else. :(

...I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this precedent. :V
Sorry for contributing to the atmosphere. The relevance to the quest is that I'm pointing out that it is possible for us to wish to be able to naturalise our emotions and thus no longer need to cleanse.

EDIT:^ I did provide citations. You yourself decided that you were too lazy to read them. That's your fault, not mine.
 
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The relevance to the quest is that I'm pointing out that it is possible for us to wish to be able to naturalise our emotions and thus no longer need to cleanse.
Naturalize.

Again with that word.

I'm pretty sure we could replace naturalize with 'do the magic thingy' and it'd make more sense.

Because you all seem to think of it as some sort of magical buzzword or something, and that if we include it in enough votes our mana will activate.
 
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