ry where a time traveller hits some guy up in a modern bar to warn him about the dangers of tolerating muslims because in his future they're still fighting a war for the fate of civilization against Islam this makes sense.
Yeah, but that was after 9/11, which broke Simmon's brain. Before that Islam just got the Oriental treatment in his works: exotic and maybe a little kooky, but mostly harmless. The Muslim protag in Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion is a pretty ordinary guy.
 
Hey now, that's a classic genre, dating back centuries to warning about how evil Catholics are! Some things never change
 
You... didn't know that? Uh oh.
Ten bucks says this guy was just some future alt-righter drunk and spouting alternative facts after the European Union elected it's first muslim president or something.

If things were really so bad how the fuck would he have access to a damn time machine?

Seriously, he was just rambling on there about declaring war on aviation for a few paragraphs. I really would not be surprised if by his time the Far Right had evolved from ignoring reality to an outright divorce from it.
 
This makes sense, but if this were the case it would also make sense that there are pretty terrible issues with wealth inequality in every Citadel race, because if their economies are monomaniacally geared towards specific industries, all the opportunities and investment of resources is going to go there. I'd suspect that the current troubles in places like the Rust belt are happening on a planetary scale all over the galaxy and the only fix for it is to just fuck off in a spaceship to start a colony where maybe the members non-marketable skills can be relevant again.

It would also work as an explanation of why the aliens in Mass Effect seem kinda monocultured. It's because their economies inherently privilege people from cultures and mindsets that lend themselves more to the specific industries, leaving everyone else kind of fucked and needing to either conform to the dominant cultural mindset. It's entirely possible for there to be pacifistic, non-authoritarian Turians, but not many in a position of economic success or political authority.
The thing is that doesn't work because by then extraction and manufacturing should basically be dead as significant sources of employment. Jobs with staying power will be things like engineers, scientists, doctors, and the like who will probably rely on robots to do more and more of the dirty work but still require a sentient overseer. Which isn't compatible with mono-species planets. If a species has specialized as being the best at being a doctor, they still have to, you know, like be there to doctor you, rather than hanging out on their homeworld Caduceus. Unless you are outsourcing employment to alien worlds who remote control robots where you are. Which uh, would be an interesting and logical idea actually. Beings like the Volus or Quarians would naturally want to telework to places which would horribly kill them if they weren't in an environment suit, but where they'd be the best alien for the job.
 
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Sure there could be a future where religion isn't as big, but there's also just a likely chance where people are making their temples on every moon ever.

Vyslante pointed out one instance of Muslims pointing their spaceship to earth because they want to face the kibla in a book he's read. It's a small thing, but an appreciated one.

I just want more Muslims in space. Or better yet, works where religion is explored just as much as other aspects of life. Is it so much to ask?

Try Dan Simmon's Hyperion. One of the main protagonists is a Palestinian.

Dune is heavily inspired by Islamic world, answering the question what a scifi setting using the middle East instead of Europe as it's sole inspiration may look like.

Then there is Chronicles of Riddick movies which features space Muslims as an important element in its world building.

And the Expanse has well I am not sure if they are muslim (still reading first book and only watched the show), but certainly middle eastern characters with middle eastern names.
 
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I'll use the 'A Certain Magical/Scientific Index/Railgun/Accelerator" series as an example of this, but it's not limited just to them.

Researches and mages and scientists and whatever who's goal is to make/summon/whatever the 'ultimate X'. Aaaand? What do you get for this? People in Science City certainly spend a lot of time trying to make a Level 6 Psychic, and put a lot of resources to the task, often sacrificing a fair amount, but it constantly remains unclear what they get from this, since they almost assuredly don't have a means of control once they do. And it's not limited to level 6 psychics, but it's a thing.

Similarly people trying to summon gods and similar in different fictions, or sometimes genetically engineer 'the ultimate being'. It's like you really want to say them, 'your research is plenty impressive, but you do know once it's done your ultimate creation is just going to probably kill you, either on purpose or just as a side-effect of people trying to stop it, right?'.
 
I'll use the 'A Certain Magical/Scientific Index/Railgun/Accelerator" series as an example of this, but it's not limited just to them.

Researches and mages and scientists and whatever who's goal is to make/summon/whatever the 'ultimate X'. Aaaand? What do you get for this? People in Science City certainly spend a lot of time trying to make a Level 6 Psychic, and put a lot of resources to the task, often sacrificing a fair amount, but it constantly remains unclear what they get from this, since they almost assuredly don't have a means of control once they do. And it's not limited to level 6 psychics, but it's a thing.

Similarly people trying to summon gods and similar in different fictions, or sometimes genetically engineer 'the ultimate being'. It's like you really want to say them, 'your research is plenty impressive, but you do know once it's done your ultimate creation is just going to probably kill you, either on purpose or just as a side-effect of people trying to stop it, right?'.

You're very right. It dates all the way back to (at least) Frankenstein, where basically the logic behind doing this ill-thought-out thing is "because it's there" or "For SCIENCE!!!" (Actually, in the original Frankenstein novel, Shelley took the time to give Victor at least certain good reasons; traumatized by the death of his mother he was deliberately trying to conquer the mysteries of death and illness in order to free humanity from the burden of such things. Moreover, Victor was an individual medical student; in the modern cliches, these "mad science" projects are often backed by massive corporate and government funding, groups that while they certainly ignore moral restraints are often very interested in the bottom line and like to have some tangible reason for dumping money down an R&D hole (especially since the same people are usually spending more money running around committing crimes covering up the situation).)
 
You're very right. It dates all the way back to (at least) Frankenstein, where basically the logic behind doing this ill-thought-out thing is "because it's there" or "For SCIENCE!!!" (Actually, in the original Frankenstein novel, Shelley took the time to give Victor at least certain good reasons; traumatized by the death of his mother he was deliberately trying to conquer the mysteries of death and illness in order to free humanity from the burden of such things. Moreover, Victor was an individual medical student; in the modern cliches, these "mad science" projects are often backed by massive corporate and government funding, groups that while they certainly ignore moral restraints are often very interested in the bottom line and like to have some tangible reason for dumping money down an R&D hole (especially since the same people are usually spending more money running around committing crimes covering up the situation).)

Yea, I don't mind a mad scientist experimenting for an obsession, or trying to get 'first,' or unexpected results and such, but like you say, bottom line. Large amounts of time and money spent in, not pure freeform research that happens to get something dangerous, but directed research, should be done for the purposes of getting something someone wants!

Oh yea, and "because the world needs a god," is not sufficient reason to make a vaguely all-powerful being who has no motives and likely did not get created nice good circumstances.
 
The hot significant other and the hot best friend must be sleeping together, I mean honestly not everybody is cheating
 
I'm getting really tired of the "genre savy, oh-so-smart complainer who is so wise and smart and knows everything...by treating real life like a slasher flick or a superhero movie or whatever".
 
When we 'learn' in season 7 that the helpful recurring character is actually a villain who was just helping to gain the heroes trust in order to get X.

So all those previous times over the years he was helping and had the perfect opportunity to betray them and get X was just him playing the long game? Seems legit.
 
When we 'learn' in season 7 that the helpful recurring character is actually a villain who was just helping to gain the heroes trust in order to get X.

So all those previous times over the years he was helping and had the perfect opportunity to betray them and get X was just him playing the long game? Seems legit.

Though points if its obvious from the beginning they had ulterior motives for being with the heroes and something changes to mean that their interests no longer align. Tyr from Andromeda fits this nicely, no one was really surprised when he finally put the knife in but the crucial info that made him finally actually break with the rest of the crew was carefully hidden from them so it made sense that they would not be ready for him to actually go ahead with it after so many years seemingly drifting towards being genuinely on their side.
 
When we 'learn' in season 7 that the helpful recurring character is actually a villain who was just helping to gain the heroes trust in order to get X.

So all those previous times over the years he was helping and had the perfect opportunity to betray them and get X was just him playing the long game? Seems legit.

This one's only effective if the heroes were fighting different villains. "Over the last five seasons of this show, you have defeated Lord Spiky-Armor, Queen ObviouslyEvilla, the Really Big Dragon, Squidface McCthulhu, and Global Warming, and collected their MacGuffins of Evil Power and locked them up here in this vault that only I have the key to. Thank you for collecting my resources and offing my rivals for me." Then the secret villain isn't so much pretending to be their friend as they are using the heroes as unwitting pawns.
 
I'm getting really tired of the "genre savy, oh-so-smart complainer who is so wise and smart and knows everything...by treating real life like a slasher flick or a superhero movie or whatever".

Well, if the story actually is a slasher flick or a superhero movie or whatever...

This is a problem with ongoing serial stories of any genre. As time passes, the genre-savviness of characters should increase. If you tell a coherent story about a group of people who run through several slasher movies, then by movie 3 they totally should be going "Is he dead? Fuck it, put a clip or three into him from here first. We don't want to risk him getting up like happened that time before."

Either you need to subvert the cliches as you write, or you need to have your characters not recognize facets of the reality they inhabit.
 
This is a problem with ongoing serial stories of any genre. As time passes, the genre-savviness of characters should increase. If you tell a coherent story about a group of people who run through several slasher movies

If your serial is so tightly bound to the trappings in genre that whether or not the characters are "genre savvy" is even an issue then your story is probably a FUBARed nonsense mess anyway. Or it's just derivative crap.

Either you need to subvert the cliches as you write

Aaaaaaaaaaagh
 
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This one's only effective if the heroes were fighting different villains. "Over the last five seasons of this show, you have defeated Lord Spiky-Armor, Queen ObviouslyEvilla, the Really Big Dragon, Squidface McCthulhu, and Global Warming, and collected their MacGuffins of Evil Power and locked them up here in this vault that only I have the key to. Thank you for collecting my resources and offing my rivals for me." Then the secret villain isn't so much pretending to be their friend as they are using the heroes as unwitting pawns.

It's often a stretch even then, since the heroes become the clear bigger threats after awhile.
 
Superheroes are not some secret ubermensch power fantasy, or Randian dream, certainly not on anything past the most utterly surface level.

They are, in fact, a celebration of using our special gifts to help everybody and not just ourselves because helping people is the right thing to do.
 
Superheroes are not some secret ubermensch power fantasy, or Randian dream, certainly not on anything past the most utterly surface level.

They are, in fact, a celebration of using our special gifts to help everybody and not just ourselves because helping people is the right thing to do.

I can't help but feel that your avatar undermines your point.:p
 
Some people help the world with eye beams just look at Cyclops

Um... just how closely do you want to look at Cyclops. Cyclops has a habit of using super heroing as an excuse to run away from commitments and his family. I mean look at how big a problem he has with interacting with people in normal situations that don't involve punching dudes with your sweet eye lasers. He even has a repeating character trait where the right thing to do is for him to stop leading the X-men but he simply can't stay away.
 
Because a very pissed off looking God with abs of steel burnifying whatever is in his way kind of goes against the "there is no power fantasy involved here, just simple folks dreaming of making the world better" vibe.

The original post wasn't 'there is no power fantasy' but 'there is no ubermensch power fantasy' or Randian dream.

Ie Superheroes are absolutely a power fantasy, but one normally on trying to do good by choice, not 'I have powers I now make the rules/am not bound by society,' as people project onto them.
 
The original post wasn't 'there is no power fantasy' but 'there is no ubermensch power fantasy' or Randian dream.

Ie Superheroes are absolutely a power fantasy, but one normally on trying to do good by choice, not 'I have powers I now make the rules/am not bound by society,' as people project onto them.
Superman is explicitly anti-ubermensch even, confirming to society's rules and morals.
 
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