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Cliches you can't stand

Q99 said:
True, but it'd help if all the girls didn't fall so far on the light side of things.

Like, tune up the vampire's need for blood a bit, make it so that she has to remember her schedule for blood bags carefully, and make it an analogy for taking medicine, maybe. And the yukionna's ice being stronger so while it's not *really* dangerous it's at least something she needs to be conscious of for other's sake beyond just their reaction to her.

It's an enjoyable, quite readable series, but I do think upping the dial just a little would help without altering the core of the story. Or at least, help for *me*, this is a preference thing.
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Personally I do like how light-hearted the story is, but maybe I've been reading to much Berserk lately and my life has been pretty grimderp due to school. However, I think the fact that their conditions aren't really too grim serious allows the story to justify why society doesn't ostracize them for their conditions. Nonetheless, I can see a good case being made for a darker and/or more serious version of Ajin-chan mainly because the story already hints at how demi-humans can cause problems in society, and I can jump on board with your preference for a more grey-toned Ajin-chan series.
 
Kokurokoki said:
Personally I do like how light-hearted the story is, but maybe I've been reading to much Berserk lately and my life has been pretty grimderp due to school. However, I think the fact that their conditions aren't really too grim serious allows the story to justify why society doesn't ostracize them for their conditions. Nonetheless, I can see a good case being made for a darker and/or more serious version of Ajin-chan mainly because the story already hints at how demi-humans can cause problems in society, and I can jump on board with your preference for a more grey-toned Ajin-chan series.
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I'm not calling for a darker story btw. It should stay a very light story. It's just the Demi aspects are so minor that they often aren't even the issue themselves, just the perception of them. Having 'em be real, but quite manageable problems, rather than things they realize aren't problems.

Ones that when managed, the girls are pretty much as now, and are, in fact, managed, but if they weren't, they still wouldn't be major-major things, but would be more there.
 
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So I've just finished watching the first two series of Legend of Korra, which informs this pet peeve. Sorry for the rambling, I'm not used to typing substantive posts while away from a keyboard.

Conflicts that are solved with 'I can't believe it's not murder!' By this I mean situations where someone should be killed and by fiat are just knocked out or never mentioned again but presumed alive.

If you don't want to tell a story that says killing is justified in some circumstances then actually write a story where killing isn't justified. Don't just write your war story and then use your author powers to remove all the deaths.

I just find it a bit cowardly that people create stories that should involve death and then act as if removing the corpses at the end changes the central message, "Force is sometimes how you have to solve problems." Especially if the villains are morally culpable because they're *GASP* murderers but the heroes are good because they only incapacitate their enemies (using the same means that produce corpses when used by villains).

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You can have great (even contenders for the best) stories where killing isn't the solution, but they don't come about by taking stories where killing is the solution and erasing the consequences.
 
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Dark Lord Bob said:
So I've just finished watching the first two series of Legend of Korra, which informs this pet peeve. Sorry for the rambling, I'm not used to typing substantive posts while away from a keyboard.

Conflicts that are solved with 'I can't believe it's not murder!' By this I mean situations where someone should be killed and by fiat are just knocked out or never mentioned again but presumed alive.

If you don't want to tell a story that says killing is justified in some circumstances then actually wrote a story where killing isn't justified. Don't just write your war story and then use your author powers to remove all the deaths.

I just find it a bit cowardly that people create stories that should involve death and then act as if removing the corpses at the end changes the central message, "Force is sometimes how you have to solve problems." Especially if the villains are morally culpable because they're *GASP* murderers but the heroes are good because they only incapacitate their enemies (using the same means that produce corpses when used by villains).

--

You can have great (even contenders for the best) stories where killing isn't the solution, but they don't come about by taking stories where killing is the solution and erasing the consequences.
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I think the best execution of having a character that doesn't kill but understand that he has to kill was on break blade when rygart killed borcuse... well he's not so well after that, but sometimes, certain enemies have to die.
 
I have to admit I only watched the first season of Legend of Korra and in general I lost any interest in watching anymore after that. I was rather unsatisfied with them building up Amon as this intimidating, impeccable villain who was such a massive threat who basically won only for the show to dispose of him all too quickly at the end of the season.
 
Dark Lord Bob said:
So I've just finished watching the first two series of Legend of Korra, which informs this pet peeve. Sorry for the rambling, I'm not used to typing substantive posts while away from a keyboard.
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This'd be the Korra that involves a murder-suicide, exploding heads, self-immolation, and electrocution?

Korra 100% involves "problems solved through lethal means", and done by both the protagonists and the antagonists.

You'd have a much better case for ATLA, and things like the fate of Jet, or the horseshit that lets Aang out of his moral dilemma about killing Ozai.
 
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foamy said:
This'd be the Korra that involves a murder-suicide, exploding heads, self-immolation, and electrocution?

Korra 100% involves "problems solved through lethal means", and done by both the protagonists and the antagonists.

You'd have a much better case for ATLA, and things like the fate of Jet, or the horseshit that lets Aang out of his moral dilemma about killing Ozai.
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Though it's more an "Unpopular opinion" I didn't really dislike the conclusion to A:TLA?

That said, the fate of Jet should have been more explicit, but I think it's pretty clear that they weren't trying to pretend he was alive.
 
The Laurent said:
Though it's more an "Unpopular opinion" I didn't really dislike the conclusion to A:TLA?
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I don't dislike the conclusion, as such, but I think the third option Aang receives via Lion Turtle Ex Machina removes much of the potential weight from Aang's decisions.

EDIT:

Like if there'd been buildup or some kind of seeking-out of that third option prior to the finale -- I mean, Aang was amped up to assassinate Ozai as of Day of the Black Sun, for goodness sake -- I'd have a lot more respect for it. Likewise if it didn't occur and Aang needed to subdue Ozai and lock him in Ultra Firebending Prison without killing him, I think that would've gone well too.

(Also the other DXM of the precisely-shaped rock formation allowing re-access to the avatar state was pretty dumb too :V)
 
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The Laurent said:
Though it's more an "Unpopular opinion" I didn't really dislike the conclusion to A:TLA?

That said, the fate of Jet should have been more explicit, but I think it's pretty clear that they weren't trying to pretend he was alive.
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your not alone in that, I felt like the lion turtle thing was a bit of a cop out the same with the acupuncture rock.
 
I liked the ending of AtLA as a less creepy version of the Binding of Isaac, which played nicely into the fact that Aang is fundamentally a pretty religious character on a quest for enlightenment.
 
Actually, there's something I dislike. People writing religious characters who clearly don't have any respect or understanding for religious characters/people.

I'm not just talking about, "Silly Christian, your God is a lie" since that's easy to avoid, but if you're going to have religion be a central part of your fantasy story, maybe...I dunno, think about the fact that people believe in it? I think Omicron once said, of another element of characterbuilding he didn't like, that characters maintained an "ironic detachment" from their own society.

I dislike it particularly when it comes to religion. Perhaps because I'm making up for what a stereotypical teenage atheist I was. :p
 
I don't understand people who complain about Aang probably killing mooks with his earthbending. They were attacking him with lethal intent, what was he supposed to do? Sure, I guess it's weird that he kills them but not Ozai, but Ozai was beaten and helpless. That's obviously different.

It just seems odd especially for a community that's weirdly fixated on lethal force, lethal force, leathal force 90% of the time.
 
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Reveen said:
I don't understand people who complain about Wang probably killing mooks with his earthbending. They were attacking him with lethal intent, what was he supposed to do? Sure, I guess it's weird that he kills them but not Ozai, but Ozai was beaten and helpless. That's obviously different.

It just seems odd especially for a community that's weirdly fixated on lethal force, lethal force, leathal force 90% of the time.
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I didn't know the Avatar was a gun-toting assassin.
 
The Laurent said:
Actually, there's something I dislike. People writing religious characters who clearly don't have any respect or understanding for religious characters/people.

I'm not just talking about, "Silly Christian, your God is a lie" since that's easy to avoid, but if you're going to have religion be a central part of your fantasy story, maybe...I dunno, think about the fact that people believe in it? I think Omicron once said, of another element of characterbuilding he didn't like, that characters maintained an "ironic detachment" from their own society.

I dislike it particularly when it comes to religion. Perhaps because I'm making up for what a stereotypical teenage atheist I was. :p
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This seems like an extension of another cliche, the bad habit of writers to have there protagonists espouse modern liberal ideas even if they are from a very conservative society or time period. This applies double when the character is nobility or part of the ruling class, I realize the author wants me to like the protagonist but hearing a king or a noble go on about the virtues of liberty and freedom is very jarring.
 
Alex said:
This seems like an extension of another cliche, the bad habit of writers to have there protagonists espouse modern liberal ideas even if they are from a very conservative society or time period. This applies double when the character is nobility or part of the ruling class, I realize the author wants me to like the protagonist but hearing a king or a noble go on about the virtues of liberty and freedom is very jarring.
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To be fair, nobles did go on about the virtue of liberty and freedom sometimes! I mean, for nobles from any attempt of the King to command them, but that's a *kind* of freedom.

Though it depends on the type of conservative. A lot of things people associate with conservative society (especially in regards to modern social definitions and issues) weren't actually things.
 
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The Laurent said:
To be fair, nobles did go on about the virtue of liberty and freedom sometimes! I mean, for nobles from any attempt of the King to command them, but that's a *kind* of freedom.

Though it depends on the type of conservative. A lot of things people associate with conservative society (especially in regards to modern social definitions and issues) weren't actually things.
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Yeah I could have been more clear I am specifically thinking of times when characters are far more egalitarian than they logically would be just to create audience sympathy, This seems to mostly happen in bad action movies like The Patriot 300 Braveheart etc.
 
Reveen said:
I don't understand people who complain about Aang probably killing mooks with his earthbending. They were attacking him with lethal intent, what was he supposed to do? Sure, I guess it's weird that he kills them but not Ozai, but Ozai was beaten and helpless. That's obviously different.
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Not that I disagree on the larger point but at the time Aang was debating lethal force Ozai was the opposite of beaten and helpless. The whole issue arose when people wanted him to go into the fight with the intent to kill Ozai.
 
The Laurent said:
Actually, there's something I dislike. People writing religious characters who clearly don't have any respect or understanding for religious characters/people.

I'm not just talking about, "Silly Christian, your God is a lie" since that's easy to avoid, but if you're going to have religion be a central part of your fantasy story, maybe...I dunno, think about the fact that people believe in it? I think Omicron once said, of another element of characterbuilding he didn't like, that characters maintained an "ironic detachment" from their own society.
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Ah, yes. The "Tyrion Lannister"

I dislike it particularly when it comes to religion. Perhaps because I'm making up for what a stereotypical teenage atheist I was. :p
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I think it's because people can have their characters be sexist and such, but their beliefs (mainly a very secular, inoffensive outlook) tends to seep into those characters' religiosity so you can clearly see where the writer's views come in.

It's not just fantasy. I'm convinced that a lot of "extraordinary situation' stories set in modern times would have far more of a religious tint if they actually happened. Zombie apocalypses, superheroes , aliens...it's all treated in a more irreligious fashion than I'd expect to see IRL.
 
Cunuroi said:
Ah, yes. The "Tyrion Lannister"


I think it's because people can have their characters be sexist and such, but their beliefs (mainly a very secular, inoffensive outlook) tends to seep into those characters' religiosity so you can clearly see where the writer's views come in.

It's not just fantasy. I'm convinced that a lot of "extraordinary situation' stories set in modern times would have far more of a religious tint if they actually happened. Zombie apocalypses, superheroes , aliens...it's all treated in a more irreligious fashion than I'd expect to see IRL.
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...weirdly, I guess I like Tyrion Lannister, but then, I don't think he's particularly bad with it? I mean, considering how clearly Martin doesn't give a shit about the Seven or really understand medieval religion?

That said, I can see what you're saying.

Edit: I think some of it is that Tyrion had a reason to be deatched from a lot of it, and it was clear that he still CARED a lot about being liked, even though he was all, "I don't care I'm a funny bitter man." Or whatnot. He wanted to be a good guy by his society's standards...other than religion, but again, GoT and religion...
 
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foamy said:
I don't dislike the conclusion, as such, but I think the third option Aang receives via Lion Turtle Ex Machina removes much of the potential weight from Aang's decisions.
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That was one of the things I liked about Season 1 of Korra. Aang's 3rd option did have consequences, in that his insistence on non-lethally extinguishing benders inspired Amon to use the same tactic. His 3rd option to make Republic City had its own mixture of consequences as well. I liked that angle, you can reject the choices and make a new unforeseen one, but with new unforeseen risks and hazards.

The Laurent said:
Actually, there's something I dislike. People writing religious characters who clearly don't have any respect or understanding for religious characters/people.

I'm not just talking about, "Silly Christian, your God is a lie" since that's easy to avoid, but if you're going to have religion be a central part of your fantasy story, maybe...I dunno, think about the fact that people believe in it? I think Omicron once said, of another element of characterbuilding he didn't like, that characters maintained an "ironic detachment" from their own society.

I dislike it particularly when it comes to religion. Perhaps because I'm making up for what a stereotypical teenage atheist I was. :p
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Alex said:
This seems like an extension of another cliche, the bad habit of writers to have there protagonists espouse modern liberal ideas even if they are from a very conservative society or time period. This applies double when the character is nobility or part of the ruling class, I realize the author wants me to like the protagonist but hearing a king or a noble go on about the virtues of liberty and freedom is very jarring.
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Alex said:
Yeah I could have been more clear I am specifically thinking of times when characters are far more egalitarian than they logically would be just to create audience sympathy, This seems to mostly happen in bad action movies like The Patriot 300 Braveheart etc.
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That said now we seem to be getting more of the converse, most infamously in Game of Thrones, which is basically the worst depravities of a half dozen different eras fused into one implausible clusterfuck.
 
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The Laurent said:
...weirdly, I guess I like Tyrion Lannister, but then, I don't think he's particularly bad with it? I mean, considering how clearly Martin doesn't give a shit about the Seven or really understand medieval religion?
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Well, another part of it is, IMHO, Tyrion has reason to be something of a snarker about mainstream society (including religion)-his entire character is setup around him being something of an outsider, both physically and societally. He's not a very good example of this, because his 'ironic detachment' comes from actual detachment from society, with a lot of problems that come with that.

A better example would be the MC of Alderamin on the Sky, who embodies the damn trope. Or... dammit, am I ever going to stop using Traviss as a dead horse- Traviss' various Jedi characters in her Star Wars novels
 
Yuri and yaoi-baiting. I think it's insulting to actual homosexual relationships that are already under-represented in anime/manga/fiction.
 
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