You seem to be under the impression that we are basically on the verge of total starvation should some one sneeze the wrong way, the gm literally just said that due to our value it is much harder for us to go hungry then other civs.
More food is always good, especially if we have more than we need, then we can use it as a means of trade or a tribute to bribe of enemy attackers.
We can even use it as a gift to form alliance or assimilate large group of people in time of starvation.
Aren't as bad in a sense that they will colapse our civ, but are bad in sense that we will be on thight management especially as our population grows and we don't have enough (fertile) land that can feed everyone.
More that it has resulted in an economy type that means your highly centralised government has been effectively ignoring all of the background rolls for bad winters or harvest. Unlike other civs, you haven't suffered any temp econ damage from lack of food due to various reasons to the point that the People haven't noticed that a bad harvest or winter can cause starvation because they have yet to suffer one and they haven't had enough interaction with other civs to see another civ suffer one.
That is all true yes but you keep saying we need more food like were all about to starve we can get more food easily enough to trade the only problem is we dont have any friendlies near by to trade it with.
That is all true yes but you keep saying we need more food like were all about to starve we can get more food easily enough to trade the only problem is we dont have any friendlies near by to trade it with.
I was working under assumption that we will be overpopulated and will not have enough fertile land to feed us all as coastal or mountain region don't produce much food like let's say river valleys. Once again I'm going back at the civs that were created there.
I was as well working under assumption of bronze age colapse in wich a civs that were destroyed were at much greater level than us now (of course climate change isn't only factor of colapse but is one major ones ).
My goal is have more food than necessary by obtaining fertile land and then when such time comes we can have a leverage over colapsing civs, once they all are starving i think that they will either try to take a food from us ( a food wich we might won't have)
Or we can accept refuges if we prepare and assimilate them
@Star Extra food is representing by Econ. If you want to know how much spare food the People have, just look at the Temp Econ stat. A civ starves when their Temp Econ goes into the negatives.
I thought the faded revulsion went both ways as if we didnt interact with them and that made things cool down then it would go both ways with them too.
That is all true yes but you keep saying we need more food like were all about to starve we can get more food easily enough to trade the only problem is we dont have any friendlies near by to trade it with.
It is because we have no friendlies that we should take the land. That way even if they wont trade, we wont need them too.
Also there is the point of settling to establish control of the land so no one else can settle there. We own fertile grassland, best to make sure no one gets there.
I was working under assumption that we will be overpopulated and will not have enough fertile land to feed us all as coastal or mountain region don't produce much food like let's say river valleys. Once again I'm going back at the civs that were created there.
I was as well working under assumption of bronze age colapse in wich a civs that were destroyed were at much greater level than us now (of course climate change isn't only factor of colapse but is one major ones ).
My goal is have more food than necessary by obtaining fertile land and then when such time comes we can have a leverage over colapsing civs, once they all are starving i think that they will either try to take a food from us ( a food wich we might won't have)
Or we can accept refuges if we prepare and assimilate them
Still the bronze age collapse is pretty far off and its not like we have huge pops we only have 1 city in each area that can support 12 so its not like weve got such a huge pop to feed at the moment.
I thought the faded revulsion went both ways as if we didnt interact with them and that made things cool down then it would go both ways with them too.
Still the bronze age collapse is pretty far off and its not like we have huge pops we only have 1 city in each area that can support 12 so its not like weve got such a huge pop to feed at the moment.
Still the bronze age collapse is pretty far off and its not like we have huge pops we only have 1 city in each area that can support 12 so its not like weve got such a huge pop to feed at the moment.
We can actually go inland. There is an option to go between Sunset and Greenbay but inland .
That way the new settlement will actually be further from forest folk than Greenbay, and further from sea hunters as well.
We can actually go inland. There is an option to go between Sunset and Greenbay but inland .
That way the new settlement will actually be further from forest folk than Greenbay, and further from sea hunters as well.
Yeah I was considering that one too besides upriver plains
But it doesn't go down the river like upriver plains which allows us to go by river from greenbay to the plains.
Both are good locations.
But past those two is where the expansion would pretty much cease. So around 5 locations.
Are the Forest folk still a thing, we pretty much didn't interacted with inlanders for over a century, they might have even colapsed by now .
I think that one diplomatic mission towards freak folk is in order soon.
More clay = more resources.
Only controlling the coast doesn't exactly leave us with alot of land. We're going to be starving for resources if we don't expand inland.
We already have way more space than we know what to do with, though. We're not running out of land anytime soon.
Edit:Right now expanding into new territories just serves to bring us into contact with other civs, which we don't want. Better to increase our population density, aka the thing we know helps defend us against raids, and do more farming on the abundant land we already have for the time being.
We already have way more space than we know what to do with, though. We're not running out of land anytime soon.
Edit:Right now expanding into new territories just serves to bring us into contact with other civs, which we don't want. Better to increase our population density, aka the thing we know helps defend us against raids, and do more farming on the abundant land we already have for the time being.
I think that real problem here isn't with having that land now, but having it later.
Some players, including me are concerned that if we don't claim that land early on other civs will take it for themselves and then it will be lost to us, that is if we don't go to war over it.
We already have way more space than we know what to do with, though. We're not running out of land anytime soon.
Edit:Right now expanding into new territories just serves to bring us into contact with other civs, which we don't want. Better to increase our population density, aka the thing we know helps defend us against raids, and do more farming on the abundant land we already have for the time being.
[X] Turn to the goddess. The People have failed to save those taken and while the Sea Hunter attacks are fended off, the People are still dying and are no closer to striking back at the Sea Hunters. The goddess has been succeeding where the People have been failing so perhaps it is time to seek guidance from Arthryn.
The People have fought the Sea Hunters for generations and now there are members of the People fighting whose parents weren't born yet when the first attack took place. As much as it pains, the elders to admit it, the fight against the Sea Hunters isn't to rescue those taken, but to avenge them instead.
Yet the People have been failing at that. While they defend Sunrise Bay against the Sea Hunters, it kills more of the People than Sea Hunters each time and while the People are able to maintain such a state of affairs, it is not a status quo that the People desire.
And the People failed to find out where the Sea Hunters were coming from as well. Explorers would come back empty-handed or not come back at all and the only success they had was when Arthryn had revealed to them the location of the Sea Hunter village in the Sunrise Mountains.
Everyone wanted to continue the fight, but the People are divided in how to do so. Many sought to turn to Arthryn for aid as she had seen greater success than the People themselves, but others were against the idea. They felt that they shouldn't be reliant on Arthryn to solve their problems and that the People should be taking care of their troubles on their own.
But in the end, the People just weren't making enough progress. Yes, they now had canoes and the ability to strike back at the Sea Hunters. Yes, they could defend their settlements. Yes, they knew where to strike at. Yes, it was only a matter of time until the Sea Hunter leader died one way or another. But all of those took too long.
If turning to Arthryn was what was required for swifter victory, then the majority of the People were willingly to place their hopes on the goddess to guide them to triumph.
And Arthryn would quite literally guide them as the goddess revealed a path through the coastal edge of the Sunrise Mountains, letting them reach the Sea Hunter village without having to brave the sea of the Great Bay.
The People would march through the mountains with Arthryn's guidance giving them safe passage to their destination.
The first attack was a failure as while many of the Sea Hunters were slain, the Sea Hunter leader led his people to slaughter most of the attackers. Unperturbed by this turn of events, the People would train more hunters and launch a second attack on the Sea Hunter village.
The second attack was a much closer fought battle than the first one. While the People ultimately lose once again, they had caught the Sea Hunters by surprise and for once, they inflicted greater losses on the Sea Hunters, slaying most of the defenders.
If it wasn't the presence of the ageing Sea Hunter leader and his valiant efforts, then the People would have almost certainly taken the village though it was debatable if the People could have held it against a Sea Hunter counter-attack.
The second attack also made it clear to the People that this village wasn't the only village of the Sea Hunters. It was simply too small to support the populace of the Sea Hunters from what the People had encountered. Just like the People, the Sea Hunters had multiple villages.
The third attack didn't go as well as the second, but it was definitely a lot better than the first. Once again the People were driven back and while the number of casualties for each side weren't as those in the second attack, the People still slew more of the Sea Hunters than they lost even if the Sea Hunter leader drove them back once again.
It had become clear that while the Sea Hunters held the advantage for as long their mighty leader lived, the overall fight was going in favour of the People as they were slaying more than they are losing whilst the Sea Hunters no longer launched raids on any of the People's villages and the People were the ones doing the attacking now.
***
"The Sea Hunters want what?" demands Ymarn as the ancient woman resides by the shrine of Arthryn in Greenbay.
The oldest of the People and their uncontested leader for generations now, Ymarn has grown old, older than any before her. Only the goddess herself is older than Ymarn and even then, she spent less time in the mortal world than Ymarn has.
Over a hundred winters old, Ymarn has lived long enough to see almost all of her children died and some of her grandchildren as well. The elder has also lived long enough to know that the Sea Hunters have denied her the chance to ever see her beloved Wyrn again.
Ymarn just hopes to the goddess that she lives long enough to see the Sea Hunters brought to justice for what they have done. It has taken so, so long, but the People have finally gained the advantage in the fight against the Sea Hunters.
They just need to press it so they can claim victory over the Sea Hunters, avenging those that have been lost to the Sea Hunters and ensuring that the Sea Hunters will never threaten the People again.
"Peace Ancient Ymarn," says the young explorer, still tired from making his way back to Greenbay with the news, "A small band of Sea Hunters, enough to count on a single hand, landed on the shore near Greenbay, not too close to the village. When we approached, they raised their bows over their heads and their leader spoke to us. A new leader that is. The Sea Hunters claimed that the old one, who they call Curan, has died, falling to old age as all do in time."
"And they want peace after everything they have done?" snaps Ymarn.
"Yes Ancient Ymarn," confirms the explorer, "Their leader wishes to arrange an agreement to cease the attacks between the People and the Sea Hunters."
"And is that all?" demands Ymarn, "They just ask for peace after all that they have done."
"There is-" starts the explorer before hesitating, "There is something else."
"And what would that be?" asks Ymarn.
"The leader of the Sea Hunters who has arrived to talk claims to be the granddaughter of Curan and Wyrn," says the explorer nervously, "Your granddaughter."
At the news, Ymarn struggles to remain calm, feeling the urge to lash out at something. But she cannot as her extreme age has made movement exhausting and, if she does it too much, painful as well.
Nonetheless, the young explorer can sense her emotions on the subject as he steps back.
"I will speak with her," states Ymarn emotionlessly after several moments of silence, "Bring her to me."
***
The Sea Hunters or as they call themselves, the Merntir, have fared far worse than the People have. Their food reserves run low and their surviving hunters are few and their people grow tired of the fighting. It is only Curan who has kept them fighting so long with his ability to win victories over the People and his willingness to crush those dared to suggest seeking peace.
And now that Curan is dead and the Sea Hunters are barely able to provide enough food for themselves, the Sea Hunters seek to end the fighting.
Ymarn personally doesn't understand how the situation could be so bad for the Sea Hunters when the People are fine. Probably something to do with Arthryn's greatness. From what her great-granddaughter is telling her, one would think that the Sea Hunters are on the verge of starvation and lack the hunters to fight another battle.
And Wuran is Ymarn's great-granddaughter as while the young woman has some Sea Hunter features, she is unmistakably descended from the People and clearly has the blessing of Arthryn in her blood.
Wuran is a talented talker and Ymarn can see why her great-granddaughter has risen to prominence in the wake of Curan's death and why she has been sent to negotiate peace. If it was not for Ymarn, Wuran would be easily able to negotiate an end to the fighting.
But Ymarn is here and unlike the younger generations, she is old enough to remember why the People fight. She was there at the first raid on Sunrise Bay, she has lived through all of the attacks by the Sea Hunters and she knows how the People have gone from being at a disadvantage to having the advantage.
Peace may come, but not without the Sea Hunters paying for their crimes first. But that price does not necessarily have to be in spilled blood. The Sea Hunters have taken members of the People and have yet to return them and while those originally taken are almost certainly dead by now, their descendants live on.
And as those descendants are from the People of Arthryn, they should be returned to the People of Arthryn. Arthryn is capable of providing the names and making sure all are returned.
When Ymarn brought up the option to Wuran, the younger woman hesitantly considerers it. While she agrees it is a possibility, she is reluctantly to do so partially because she would one of those being sent over and partially because she claims that the Sea Hunters don't have enough food to do that.
Nonetheless, she does mention that if the People agree to an end of attacks by both sides and provide food to compensate for the loss of manpower, leaving Ymarn with three options to conclude the negotiations with.
The first is a general end to the fighting, something that would the majority of the People accept, there would be reluctance to do so and some resentment. The People are winning and the Sea Hunters losing and the latter have yet to pay for their crimes.
The second option is to get the stolen People back in exchange for food. That is Ymarn's favourite option due to the simplicity of it. Make the Sea Hunters pay for what they did without more of the People dying and getting their stolen People back in the process. The food, something the People have more than enough thanks to the goddess and her wisdom, is a far better price to pay than the lives of the People.
The third option is to continue the war and make the Sea Hunters pay for what they have done via further bloodshed.
Which option does Ymarn choose?
[] The first option. (Ends the fighting, -1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy)
[] The second option. (Ends the fighting, -2 Temp Econ, -1 Stability, +1 Diplo Hero)
[] The third option. (Continues the fighting)
***
And now for the next part in the People-Sea Hunter war, which has raged for half a century at this point. Ymarn is still alive and kicking with a critical roll on her health check while enemy Martial Hero has bit the dust despite winning every battle due to old age. Arthryn continues to beat up the Sea Hunter deity while the Sea Hunters are on the verge of the collapse with the latest generations been fed up with the war the older generations started.
Funnily enough, the Sea Hunters rolled up a new Diplo Hero just as their old Martial Hero dies and they get fed up with war and start seeking peace. Normally, you would automatically get the peace due to the other side having a peace-seeking Diplo hero, but you have a old Mystic Hero who your de facto leader of your highly religious society who is old enough to know why the war started, why they still fight and to have personal motivation to continue the war.
I have also found how the war has gone quick interesting. The Sea Hunters initially had the advantage, but the People have slowly reversed that and it has been the Martial Hero that has kept the Sea Hunters in the fight. I would also like to note that every single battle has been won by the Sea Hunters, but the overall war has exhausted their economy and manpower while the People have kept things together despite repeated losses. So while the Sea Hunters have won all the battles due to their Martial Hero, the People have won the war due to their Admin Hero.
The People Council of Elders Upper Centralization Limit: ??? Lower Centralization Limit: ??? Admin Strain Free Provinces: ??? Penalty Accumulation: ??? Player Actions: 2 Secondary Actions +1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces Province Actions: 1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces Subordinates: ???
Early Ancient Palace Economy Temp Econ Damage: Event, -1 per 1 Centralisation, Wealth Generation: 1 per Dominant, Passive Policies: N/A Additional Actions: None Special: Negative Centralisation or lower than Minimum Centralisation will lead to collapse. Special: Increased polity size will raise the level of Minimum Centralisation required.
Diplomatic Relations
Forest Folk = Faded Revulsion/Hostile
Merntir = Seeking justice, but open to peace/Seeking Peace
Freak Folk = None/None
Lowlander Zealots = None/None
Values & Legacies Chosen of Arthryn: Gain +1 to all Innovation Rolls,
Communal Mandate As per the words of the goddess, loyalty and kindness to one's people is of the highest importance and even when times are tough or when it is not personally beneficial, one should stick by their community.
Pros: Reduced Internal Discontent, Increased Resistance to Foreign Intrigue,
Cons: Increase stability loss from taking actions which harm the People,
Born Equal While the choices of a person and the world around them can make a person greater or lesser, everyone is born equal to each other.
Pros: Decreased social stratification,
Cons: Decreased social stratification,
Loyal Neighbours The People do not abandon their own. They stand by their neighbours and community through thick and thin and do not yield when it comes to protecting their fellows.
Pros: Increased Unity during times of crisis,
Cons: Legitimacy loss when abandoning members of the People to harm and danger,
So we were able to attrition out the Martial Hero through pure numbers. We also pulled a Hannibal and attacked them through the mountains, which is nice.
I like the second option because it makes it clear that while we look after our own (aka the People and their children) we also have a shit ton of food, and these poor starving people can come over and become the People in time. Ymarn is the only one left who truly has a grudge (as the only person still alive from the start of the conflict) and thus most of the populace should be okay with outsiders wishing to become the People.
[X] The second option. (Ends the fighting, -2 Temp Econ, -1 Stability, +1 Diplo Hero)
[X] The second option. (Ends the fighting, -2 Temp Econ, -1 Stability, +1 Diplo Hero)
[X] The third option. (Continues the fighting)
So long as our blood is taken back.
Good.
If anything we can still fight but I dont really see why.
We came for the people. So long as that is accomplished, we need not spill blood, but we will remember.
