- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is pretty much what the Arthwyd think in-universe.
Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest
- Thread starter Oshha
- Start date
- Original
This is pretty much what the Arthwyd think in-universe.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
That would make a lot more sense if our Goddesses didn't empower us, and thus our enemies god's empower them. If we could find some way to overcome the gods themselves, then maybe that'd be worthwhile, but the opportunity cost doesn't seem that great. Definitely seems like a quote of someone or other though, and thus from a world without Gods.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
I mean, we know it is possible for mortals to slay goddesses somehow, so it is not an impossible prospect.
It's a plan I am not a fan of, as I quite like our Goddesses, but it is a plan that's possible within the rules of the world.
Plus it probably comes with a mean anti-Divine Legacy, in case you are worried about enemy pantheons (which, come to think of it, would probably be most pantheons once you commit deicide).
Wait, where do we know its possible for mortals to slay goddesses exactly??? Outside of just... not worshiping them anymore?
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is too impractical to pull off. It would be nothing, but a pointless waste of valuable resources. You are Neolithic civ not a modern day one.
I'm just not seeing where the brainwashing and elimination of free will is coming from. The People literally create the goddesses.
Knight Draco
Tea Sipping Advocate of the Devil
- Location
- North America
How do you plan on going about killing a Goddess who's existence is tied to the peoples?
Nation wide suicide?
(wanted regular think not thonk, couldnt find it)
- Location
- Space
They are brainwashing All-Seeress against her will.
Now how do they do it, by rewriting history and stories bound to her, remember how they erased that Merthyr leader that attacked us.
Now we did created them but remember, now they have power to manipulate who we remember and who we don't and downplay the achievements of some heros if they so wish, so from now on you must ask yourself who is creating gods from here on, people or the goddesses .
Add to that that by changing All-Seeress they are changing history of entire civilization since she is as old as Merthyr themselves.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
A couple of clarifications. First of all, Wyrn is fixing All-Seeress' lack of empathy via slowly giving her the ability to feel emotions like a normal person since she does not naturally have those.
Secondly, they did not literally erase Curyn or write him out of reality, they just made sure that his name and achievements got forgotten to time and weren't remembered by the storytellers, something that could have happened without their interference.
[X] Yes. (???)
Wolololo
Wolololo
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Thing is, "fixing" someone is a relative term. In effect, they're relying on their own judgement as to what is good, and then applying that. Since we can not be certain that Gods are infallible, the possibility therefore exists of them "fixing" or "changing" someone in a way that is not desired.
In addition, this statement
Kind of implies that the All-Seeress is either not aware or opposed to the transformation being enforced upon her (and you kind of can understand why. A Goddess of Truth may appreciate the ability to look at a situation without being emotionally involved.
Changing someone's mind to conform to your own values without their consent is brainwashing.
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- Location
- Space
But the question is are they fixing her or are they changing something they don't understand to fit their view on the world better, they didn't ask her does she wants to be fixed, they just did it.
Gods are after all different than humans and giving a being something that's is not meant to have might have its own consequences.
Basically someone who can see everything might find relief in not being able to feel things and fear for the future or feeling of betrayal when it happens, if you see humans lying your reaction might not always be positive to it, one who values the truth might even be inclined to punish unfaithful.
In case of Curan as you said it could happen , but there is always possibility of it not happening, and it doesn't change the fact that they now effectivelycan influence story tellers to record history their way.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Technically, that could refer to "just not worshipping them anymore", but that would be a rather dickish way of answering (when Oshha could've just gone "you don't know" or "try and you'll find out").
Speaking of, do we even have confirmation that Goddesses need belief to exist in this universe? We know that they need it to start existing and their shape alters based on it, but have we gotten any confirmation as to what happens to a deity when faith runs out? Maybe they stick around for a few centuries, maybe they turn into monsters, maybe they go into a super-hibernation.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, after all.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
They may even become a tortoise.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think you misunderstand what is happening to All-Seeress. She is being given the ability to feel emotions as she does not naturally have those. I would hardly call that brainwashing as they aren't changing her memories or forcing her to think a certain way as they are just giving her a normal range of emotions. Wyrn is just taking it slow and secretly so that All-Seeress doesn't freak out from suddenly being able to feel emotions, which is can be considered bad due to her not giving consent.
Edit: I personally view as being the equivalent of giving a blind person the ability to see without their consent and taking it slow so that they don't get overwhelmed by the new sensations. The lack of getting their consent is a bad thing, but fixing their disability that they had the misfortunate to be born with is a good thing.
It isn't a case of altering someone to suit your likings such as making a black person into a white person because you are racist, but of giving a disabled person an ability that they should naturally have such as the ability to walk.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
You're forcing her to think a certain way. You're forcing her to think emotionally, to interpret sad events as sad, nice events as good, and so on. That's a very, very intrusive change in a thought process, much more so than any individually changed memory. The influence of emotion on the thought process is enormous, after all.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
... BREAKING NEWS, BELIEF IN ALL GODDESSES AND OTHER DEITIES HAS NOW BEEN BANNED EVERYWHERE!
Why does being a collection of thoughts and stories given form preclude you from personhood?
Humans, after all, aren't more than a highly organised collection of proteins and strategically arranged chemical imbalances.
- Location
- Space
Well the point is then that All-Seeress is a goddess, a different being that may wasn't meant to feel emotions and forcing her to feel them might have consequences.
For exmaple if you have a judge, he must be fare and not biased, now All-Seeress is ultimate judge but by giving her emotions you are making her biased as she might be inclined to act emotionally and not logically.
Basically if someone lies but haves a good reason for it she might spare him but that is against her domain and is corruptible.
She will basically give her priests a false info to save someone bringing lying into the truth.
Or in other case where she reveals the truth and person is punished she will feel that it is because of truth, her own domain and her by extension.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We would have to agree to disagree then. To me, it isn't a matter of someone simply being born different to the norm or a certain standard, but being born lacking something that they should be born with. It is like giving a blind person sight or a deaf person hearing or a paraplegic person the ability to walk. Sure you could argue that you are forcing them to live a certain way by forcing them to see things or to hear things or to have a normal range of movement, but they don't have to use those things. You are just giving them the option to do something that they got denied due to the misfortunate of birth. It isn't like you are changing their skin colour or hair colour due to suit cultural preferences.
Should they have gotten the consent? Yes. Is what they are doing bad? No. They aren't forcing her to think that this thing is good and this think is bad, but giving her a full range of ability to make those decisions herself rather than being forced to use a limited range of ability that she is currently restricted to.
That is my opinion on the matter and you can have a different one if you so wish. For Arthryn, Wyrn and Ymarn, it is concerned family members giving the ability that their disabled relative was born without so they can enjoy life without being restricted.
