Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
They must have legacies and values that significantly lower the cost of making settlements, most likely the ones that also leads to their great infighting and disorganization.
That doesn't explain the temp econ issue, unless they are only paying 2 temp econ for each 2 settlements. They need a break at some point, especially when as far as I know they don't have any food gathering actions applied. So their econ might have begun with 4, now 10 econ?

-4 temp econ, -8 temp econ, -12 temp econ....
4 econ (4), 6 econ (???), 8 econ (////)

-2 Temp Econ, -4 temp Econ, -6 temp econ...
4 econ (4), 6 econ (2?), 8 econ (?)
 
So they have just been settling without doing any infrastructure stuff in between?

Pretty much.

Also kinda surprised we were able to get rush builders by completed the megaproject in the longest amount of time I've ever seen it take in a civ quest.
I don't understand, why did we get Rush Builders?

The second half of the megaproject was completely quickly thanks to your Admin Hero.

3 times 2 = 6. Where did the southerners get the resources for 6 settlements with no breaks? 18 Temp Econ, -3 Temp Martial, +6 Settlement Progress, +6 Econ. I repeat, where did they get the resources to build that with no break/rest period?

You are assuming that their actions have the same costs as you.
 
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest - Original | Page 264 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 6582-6650]
##### NetTally 1.9.7
[X] Yes. (???)
No. of Votes: 32
[X] No. (???)
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 33
 
Dont see why we cant also just adopt the other gods into our pantheon.
Because our pantheon is one huge family, so for other goddesses to be properly accepted they have to be adopted into the family.

But we give them freedom!

Freedom to live their lives without worrying what Goddesses they should worship.
*crosses "perform standard villain speech #23" off the bucket list*

[X] Yes. (???)
 
[X] Yes. (???)

We've got a diplo/culture hero doing this. I doubt anything irreversible will happen.
Please dont temp fate, things like what possibly could go wrong, what
Because our pantheon is one huge family, so for other goddesses to be properly accepted they have to be adopted into the family.


But we give them freedom!

Freedom to live their lives without worrying what Goddesses they should worship.
*crosses "perform standard villain speech #23" off the bucket list*

[X] Yes. (???)
Again dont see why not again.
 
[X] No. (???)

It's too late now, but what Random said. Religious Freedom.

Not what Random said but to expound on it, is that voting no would be to give the People a test of sorts. So far, the definition of The People is that everyone follows the Goddesses. What happens now, if you are part of the People...yet you do not follow the Goddesses? Are the Maradysh not part of the People? If they are but if they don't follow the Goddesses, does it mean that they are still barbaric or does it mean that their Gods are? Do the All-Boar have merit? Probably not, the barbaric fire throwing lot they were in the times of the Scourge. But surely Zaranna are civilized...right? If so, or if not so, then what makes a God civilized? What makes them worthy to be venerated and given due respect? The power to wield fire is dangerous and certainly powerful, but the Arthwyd would certainly not give any tribute to the contemptuous Boar God.... but wouldn't that power be powerful to harness in our forges of craft and war?

Dangerous questions with dangerous implications. Perhaps even too dangerous, even with Maximum Legitimacy and Stability. Voting 'yes' is a safe choice that almost certainly does not mean that we become utterly dogmatic and say that all other religion are wrong. Voting 'no' would either mean that you are a contrarian like Random... or you like to risk and gamble with perhaps too much reckless abandon.... like me :V.
 
[X] Yes. (???)

Our civ doesn't do buffer states very well, at least not with civs who lack a strong religious authority already before contact, might as well go all the way with these guys.
 
[X] No. (???)

It's too late now, but what Random said. Religious Freedom.

Not what Random said but to expound on it, is that voting no would be to give the People a test of sorts. So far, the definition of The People is that everyone follows the Goddesses. What happens now, if you are part of the People...yet you do not follow the Goddesses? Are the Maradysh not part of the People? If they are but if they don't follow the Goddesses, does it mean that they are still barbaric or does it mean that their Gods are? Do the All-Boar have merit? Probably not, the barbaric fire throwing lot they were in the times of the Scourge. But surely Zaranna are civilized...right? If so, or if not so, then what makes a God civilized? What makes them worthy to be venerated and given due respect? The power to wield fire is dangerous and certainly powerful, but the Arthwyd would certainly not give any tribute to the contemptuous Boar God.... but wouldn't that power be powerful to harness in our forges of craft and war?

Dangerous questions with dangerous implications. Perhaps even too dangerous, even with Maximum Legitimacy and Stability. Voting 'yes' is a safe choice that almost certainly does not mean that we become utterly dogmatic and say that all other religion are wrong. Voting 'no' would either mean that you are a contrarian like Random... or you like to risk and gamble with perhaps too much reckless abandon.... like me :V.
Eventually, either we get rid of the gods completely or have nothing but civs with gods compatible with our own. There isn't really a middle ground there. The Gods are real and have power, and with how our Goddesses have shown themselves to work so far, incompatible gods would be those that are utterly violent, tyrannical, or otherwise bad. We could get along with the All-Boar, it doesn't require that its followers kill and pillage, just work with the boars and have fires, at least from what we've seen of it. They've worked with the other groups that are part of the middlefolks, they could work with us. Allied pantheon's make a degree of sense. Some though, like the forest spirits can't be worked with. I don't see an issue with attempting to merge our people's by converting more of them to worship of the Goddesses. Heck, maybe we could get the All-Boar adopted along with the Goddess of Hope.

Also, religious freedom doesn't mean you can't try to convince someone else that your religion is better, just that you can't make someone change. Let them have their ways, but offer our own and teach our ways to all who'd listen.
 
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Eventually, either we get rid of the gods completely or have nothing but civs with gods compatible with our own. There isn't really a middle ground there. The Gods are real and have power, and with how our Goddesses have shown themselves to work so far, incompatible gods would be those that are utterly violent, tyrannical, or otherwise bad. We could get along with the All-Boar, it doesn't require that its followers kill and pillage, just work with the boars and have fires, at least from what we've seen of it. They've worked with the other groups that are part of the middlefolks, they could work with us. Allied pantheon's make a degree of sense. Some though, like the forest spirits can't be worked with. I don't see an issue with attempting to merge our people's by converting more of them to worship of the Goddesses. Heck, maybe we could get the All-Boar adopted along with the Goddess of Hope.

Also, religious freedom doesn't mean you can't try to convince someone else that your religion is better, just that you can't make someone change. Let them have their ways, but offer our own and teach our ways to all who'd listen.
Murder The Gods And Topple Their Thrones

Achieve Heaven Through Violence
 
Maradysh = Rebelling Vassal/None/Very Low

Maradysh = Uncertain Neutral/Wary Neutral/Medium

Maradysh = Uncertain Alliance/Wary Alliance/Medium

Maradysh = Personal Union/High/Low

Learning to into diplomacy has really benefited the Arthwyd, this has been a pretty epic achievement to manage in only a couple generations.
 
[X] Yes. (???)

I agree with the earlier statement. We want to get our palisades up anyways and if it gives us a marginal benefit to do it now, we may as well. Along with the construction of infrastructure it also seems we should start our exploration now, if we intend to do it.

The tempting answer is to rush palisade and trails but if we do so we limit the time we spend with that outside exposure. The People now possess cavalry, elite warrior, wardogs, powerful magic, and magical stone weapons. We are in a strong position militarily and now is realistically one of the best times we're going to get to push beyond, to expand our understanding of the world, and see what, or who, lies beyond our next horizon.


In regards to the religion, I'm sort of an advocate of absorbing Zaranna if we can. I agree that we don't want a value developing in our civ that civilised people must be followers of our Gods, but I do think that members of the People should be. It is worth noting that the Boarfolk will hold onto their god, which means that if we do set our criteria for members of the people as followers of Arthwyd they will be excluded, which raises several pressing questions.

I think that the Boarfolk should be able to be People, yes, and I realise that this may bring about issues. However this conversion seems a slow and diplomatic one. Not forcing the Maradysh to convert, but suggesting that they do. If it is otherwise then it may in fact be best for us to let the matter be. Sing praise of Arthryn, and do not threaten fury if the Maradysh do not make it a chorus.

@Oshha It seems in the quest that the conversion is a peaceful kind, more "See how amazing our Gods are" and less "Convert or you're a bunch of Barbarians who aren't part of the People". I realise Bronwyn is a diplomatic hero but it just seems like something worth clearing up.
 
Theological counterarguments.
These are all good points and indeed, things that I have considered. But to the matter of fact, let's examine them rather closely and show you where I disagree with them.
Eventually, either we get rid of the gods completely or have nothing but civs with gods compatible with our own. There isn't really a middle ground there.
There are middle grounds, in that the sway of power is held by different pantheons much like power blocks. The end is not always the destruction of all a la Ragnarok or destruction of Gods found disagreeable a la Titanomachy. Moreover and with regards to compatibility, what happens if our Pantheon find a God who is agreeable...who in turn finds another God to be agreeable but not with the Goddesses?

Another difficult question, one that I feel should be answered promptly considering our religious focus.
The Gods are real and have power, and with how our Goddesses have shown themselves to work so far, incompatible gods would be those that are utterly violent, tyrannical, or otherwise bad.
And here's the big point of uncertainty. The Gods are real, yes. They have power, yes. But you said it yourself, the biggest point of uncertainty:
with how our Goddesses have shown themselves to work so far
'So far'. 'For now'. The other undeniable fact is that Gods change. They are old, but they can, through actions of other Gods or their worshippers, change, shift, and have different aspects to change entirely. Arthryn dragged It-That-Became All-Seerest kicking and screaming into the Pantheon. Wryn casually making it so that Evalyn turn into a Catgirl Goddess (I did the opposite of complaining when the sidestory dropped :V). Gods can become so unrecognizable in this world, even. Dionysus' treatment in the mythos (check out the Overly Sarcastic Production video on the matter, it's great) is a prime example of this.

Simply put, we cannot rely our Gods to remain the same, that they retain the values that us, the player want. Like the civilization, we need to take careful stock of their disposition and nature, and how the civilization venerates them.
Also, religious freedom doesn't mean you can't try to convince someone else that your religion is better, just that you can't make someone change. Let them have their ways, but offer our own and teach our ways to all who'd listen.
Certainly, but notably speaking, that is not what is happening with this current vote. I have no outward problems with it, not with a Double Hero in the helm. But what do you think will happen to the Boarfolk who might to their perceived barbaric ways, the ways of the damned Scourge of the past?

Nothing good for them, that is for sure.
 
Nothing good for them, that is for sure.

Maradysh were barbarians in people eyes yet people still accepted them.
In case of All-Boar he can be added to pantheon and be worshiped, Romans for example worshiped some Persian gods even though they were rivals. Only truly evil gods cannot be accepted.
 
Learning to into diplomacy has really benefited the Arthwyd, this has been a pretty epic achievement to manage in only a couple generations.

To be fair, both sides want peaceful relations and that was only due to the Arthwyd being significantly more powerful than the Maradysh. If the Maradysh were a peer power to the Arthwyd, they would have been significantly more interesting in keeping up a grudge.

@Oshha It seems in the quest that the conversion is a peaceful kind, more "See how amazing our Gods are" and less "Convert or you're a bunch of Barbarians who aren't part of the People". I realise Bronwyn is a diplomatic hero but it just seems like something worth clearing up.

It depends on who is doing it and circumstances behind the attempted conversion. So far it has been peaceful as both of the times that the Arthwyd have attempted to convert one of their neighbours, it has been when they had a Diplo Hero in charge.

If you had a more militant leader in charge and/or more hostile relations, it could be more of a forced conversion.

As things are now, both the Arthwyd and the Maradysh adore Bronwyn so it will be a peaceful attempt at conversion.

Wryn casually making it so that Evalyn turn into a Catgirl Goddess

Note that Evalyn was not a goddess before Wyrn turned her into a catgirl. She was a mortal who had managed to reached goddesshood and Wyrn used her own divine domain to make a change or two to Evalyn during her ascension to divinity.

Maradysh were barbarians in people eyes yet people still accepted them.

The Maradysh have never been considered to be members of the People even when the Arthwyd had vassalized them.
 
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As things are now, both the Arthwyd and the Maradysh adore Bronwyn so it will be a peaceful attempt at conversion.
Well, that assuaged my fears. Still going to risk it though :V
Note that Evalyn was not a goddess before Wyrn turned her into a catgirl. She was a mortal who had managed to reached goddesshood and Wyrn used her own divine domain to make a change or two to Evalyn during her ascension to divinity.
Was this change enacted because Evalyn entered the pantheon in which Wyrn held rule or can Wyrn change and shift/interfere with the formation of other foreign Godlings as well?
 
Note that Evalyn was not a goddess before Wyrn turned her into a catgirl. She was a mortal who had managed to reached goddesshood and Wyrn used her own divine domain to make a change or two to Evalyn during her ascension to divinity.
... People are going to remember her tearing through the nomad hordes together with her Catclaws as her literally tearing through the nomad hordes with her catclaws, aren't they?
 
... People are going to remember her tearing through the nomad hordes together with her Catclaws as her literally tearing through the nomad hordes with her catclaws, aren't they?

Catgirl image destroys any serious awesomeness for me.
So yea i think that Wryn should be punished more harshly for her actions. That was a joke that will stick for life.
 
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Was this change enacted because Evalyn entered the pantheon in which Wyrn held rule or can Wyrn change and shift/interfere with the formation of other foreign Godlings as well?

Wyrn is limited to influencing the arts and stories of the People so no to influencing foreign entities.

... People are going to remember her tearing through the nomad hordes together with her Catclaws as her literally tearing through the nomad hordes with her catclaws, aren't they?

Possibly. They won't forget that she was the founder of the Catclaws and lead them into battle against Vervov and Urth and respective forces.
 
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