Why are you jumping directly from a magocracy to our downfall?
*sigh* It has nothing to do with safest option or not. As I've shown before, I'm perfectly willing to take short term pains as long as I think it's better in the long term. No, it has everything to do with long term survival and not repeating past mistakes.
Considering how magic can con from the divine, isn't that basically what a Theocracy is?
Actually, the few times I've seen SV get punished for their inevitable hubris, it's been fun.
You're talking about how you've previously taken short-term risks because they're safer in the long run. I'm talking about how although it is a long-term risk, I feel a magocracy would result in a more interesting story. Is there any precedent for such in a civ quest?
Your idea of going out and exploring a bunch, is not terribly useful to us right now. We just don't have the tech to travel far. Maybe once we get better boats? We'd have to take more fishing actions to make that work. We've got the best tech of anyone in our general area. Its possible we might find someone out there with tech we don't have. But we could very easily find other people that don't have more tech, and who are functionally useless to us currently. If we get better travel tech, which might happen with our fancy tech hero, then maybe it'd be worth doing. As it is though, we'd be better off focusing on ourselves, getting infrastructure stuff done. Studying metal and magic. Even more so building a bunch of settlements and getting more actions, but I don't see that actually happening with this quest. In the future, when we out of the ancient stone-age, then trade and exploration becomes important. Its simply not useful to us right now, we need a better base before we go out and do stuff like that. Eventually exploration and trade will be some of the most important things we can do, we simply aren't at the civilization age yet for that to be the case.
It would be if people actually learned. That they don't only makes it tragic, not funny.
"Right now is not the time." *sigh* It's never the time. But it's not about what's optimal and I know what's going to happen if we keep "building up". The response in the future will still be "now is not the time, maybe later".
You are right, its not about what's optimal, its about whatever thing people feel like doing. Optimal would be getting 2 provinces, as fast as possible, getting a third action, using that third action to keep expanding while using the regular main actions to do everything else. Maintaining that pattern indefinitely as we use our ever increasing number of actions to outperform every other civ. That'd be optimal. Its not happening. For right now though, what do you expect to actually get out of exploring other lands and meeting/trading with new civs? That we can't do better by focusing inwards for now?
I mean, if we want to explore far away. Take the Sea explore route. But I just don't think we have good enough boats for that kind of thing, and sadly explore doesn't include an innovation role.
Exploring sea doesnt necessarily mean we are trying to find some other far off place. Nearby Islands and nations near coasts. If the coast option is just exploring the coastline with a ship I may pick it.
A change in our nation's attitude that we won't get by focusing inwards. If it makes our civ less isolationist-minded, that's a good start.
Okay, so you are looking for a cultural change we might potentially get from interacting with outsiders. Alright, I understand where that'd be coming from. I don't think we'll get much of that until we are able to travel and trade freely with those distant people. Which would require better tech. Once we get metal, and start using it for roads, as well as get wagons? Yeah, then I'll be for trading and exploring, since we'll be able to do so well. For now, it just doesn't seem like its going to get the kind of mind-set you want. Something I'd also like to see us get, but at a later stage.
I believe that every action we take in this quest has some sort of overall narrative impact on our civ, big or small.
No offense to you in particular, but the thing that Random gripes is the fact that people make these sort "let's do it later" pledges. The problem with these pledges is one thing.
d) People want to 'get much' use out of an action by waiting for tech to upgrade.
I want wagons. That's the cutoff point to me. Before then, we might meet another far distant civ, but trading with them isn't going to do much, we simply won't have the ability to carry large amounts of goods long distance. If we get some of those giant boars, and they can act like wagons also good enough. At that point, I'd be for doing explore and trade actions. Before then, exploring just doesn't get what I want done. I'd like to get our settlements up to the point where we get three actions as well. Before then, if its a choice between the two, I'd go for settlement every time, but that'll rarely be the case. I'd be quite happy to do a settle and trade/explore action once we get wagons or their equivalent (including boats big enough to haul goods). I don't really expect most people to go for those settlements, since this group looks more interesting in getting the infrastructure for every settlement down pat first, which is just going to eat up a lot of actions. But yeah, that's my cut-off point. Wagons or something that can take their place, and I'll be interested in exploring and trading with other civs. Feel free to quote me on it.
Thats land trade
Except our boats are still too small. That's why they don't count as a connection for the Merntir. We'd need to take some fishing actions in order to improve them, if we wanted to be able to do much with our boats.
Or maybe, maybe attempting to explore the sea and coast will lead to naval tech improvements?
I mean, one would think that. But there isn't a innovation check for explore, its a discovery chance, which gives us new stuff, but doesn't improve what we've got. Fishing is how we get better boats, not exploring. If QM states otherwise? Then sure, but until then, as best as I can tell from the action list, it doesn't help.
