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Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest

Should the world be a Low Fantasy setting?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 70.0%

  • No

    Votes: 27 30.0%
  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
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Marlin said:
Osha has also made it clear that Osha is treating the Mentir as a seperate civ from the Arthwyd until the connection is completed. Seriously, a good boat connection will possibly never be enough of a connection? While the Mentir consider themselves Arthwyd they are currently not Arthwyd in every way that matters to put them as our civ. The Arthwyd even call the Mentir heroes members of the Mentir instead of fellow citizens of the Arthwyd in this update.
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We are sorta like the U.S. and Canada.
We all know who wears the belt in the relationship, and how close the relationship is, but you still have Canadians and Americans.
 
Knight Draco said:
We are sorta like the U.S. and Canada.
We all know who wears the belt in the relationship, and how close the relationship is, but you still have Canadians and Americans.
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???

That's not at all the case.
Canada is not a vassal of the US, and people living in Canada definitely don't consider themselves to be part of the US or associated with the US culturally.

It would be harder to think of a situation that is more fundamentally opposing to our current one in this quest than what you just described.
 
[X] Regular Warriors. Following the barbaric ways of the lowlanders, the People will train large numbers of warriors to fight for the People. This will give more fighters for the People, but some will be unhappy at following the barbarian ways of the lowlands (+1 Temp Martial, -1 Legitimacy, Gain Value Quality Of Its Own)
 
Raichu1972 said:
???

That's not at all the case.
Canada is not a vassal of the US, and people living in Canada definitely don't consider themselves to be part of the US or associated with the US culturally.

It would be harder to think of a situation that is more fundamentally opposing to our current one in this quest than what you just described.
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there aren't many vassals in this modern age, so I was taking one of the closest examples. Usually canada works in tandem with the us in most matters. And while not a vassal, the relationship they have is incredibly strong.

I can think of quite a few situations definitely more opposing to this quest then what I said.
That isn't even fundamentally opposing, a fundamental opposing situation would be me saying the united states and the north koreans.

Speaking of Koreans, the Chinese with the north koreans or the us with the south also make good examples of what I am alluding too.
 
Not quite. A modern analogy would be if a modern nation founded a mars colony.
They'd have the same culture, they'd follow the same flag, but they are not the same state, they cannot share ideas and resources freely due to communication lag and transportation choke, and if the thin channel of traffic between them was cut they'd drift into culturally distinct entities eventually.

For all intents and purposes an American Mars colony would consider themselves American, but would have a functionally separate government
 
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[X] Regular Warriors. Following the barbaric ways of the lowlanders, the People will train large numbers of warriors to fight for the People. This will give more fighters for the People, but some will be unhappy at following the barbarian ways of the lowlands (+1 Temp Martial, -1 Legitimacy, Gain Value Quality Of Its Own)
 
Raichu1972 said:
I also don't recall any gender bending shenanigans going on with any of the mortals in our civ, so I'm not sure why that point keeps coming up.
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I once mentioned it as the possibility of someone born male gaining power in a theoretical matriarchal Arthwyd society by Arthryn (your only deity at the time) using her divine power to turn them into a woman when the thread was discussing the possibility of making the Arthwyd matriarchal.

veekie said:
Not quite. A modern analogy would be if a modern nation founded a mars colony.
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I think a comparison between England and Scotland works. Both consider themselves part of the same nation (United Kingdom), but have distinct cultures. However, that leaves out the bit where the English lack the ability to directly rule the Scottish. In that regard, your Martian colony example works better.

@Marlin, everything you said here is wrong.

Marlin said:
The culture who got a divinity gender bent to be more easily absorbed by the player faction. The player civ made no true remark about changing a divine's gender, almost as if the player civ sees females as superior to men all the time.
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Marlin said:
Because the All Seer divinity got gender-bent from male to female,


Our civ also isn't human Osha says they are,


but they can't have genetic diversity. Divinity gene locked our civ to 'isn't it great everyone has big chests?'.We should be stuck in a gene lock, but there will probably be an excuse to pass it away as inconsequential.
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As others have noted, the All-Seeress didn't have a gender or even a physical form back when she was the All-Seer. She didn't get gender bent because there as no pre-existing gender. She just got given one by the People due to their preconceptions as a result of having other goddesses, but no gods. As for the bit about seeing seeing females as always superior to males, I literally said that this wasn't the case two pages ago. This is a blatantly false statement that not only has no basis in anything that has happened in the quest, but directly goes against what has said to be the case.
Oshha said:
Right now, it is more equal than not because the People haven't really developed the social concept of men do this and women do this other thing, but there is a growing tendency for priests to be women.
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As for the civ not being human, that is completely wrong. The Arthwyd and the Merntir are human. I have always stated that they are human and remain within natural human limitations. This is another claim that not only has no basis in anything that has happened in the quest, but directly goes against what has said to be the case.


Why the heck are you going on about genetics for? The assumption that the blessing of Arthryn is genetic in nature is unfounded as not only have genetics not been brought up in the quest at all, but I have deliberately left the true nature of the Arthryn's blessing vague beyond the blatantly obvious "a goddess did it". You claim that I will excuse away a problem, but this 'problem' is something you pulled out of your arse and has no basis in this quest.


Marlin said:
So we don't need to build the mountain pass to control the Mentir, and have them truly be our civ? When did that happen?
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Marlin said:
Osha has also made it clear that Osha is treating the Mentir as a seperate civ from the Arthwyd until the connection is completed. Seriously, a good boat connection will possibly never be enough of a connection? While the Mentir consider themselves Arthwyd they are currently not Arthwyd in every way that matters to put them as our civ. The Arthwyd even call the Mentir heroes members of the Mentir instead of fellow citizens of the Arthwyd in this update.
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I have repeatedly said that the Merntir and the Arthwyd consider each other to be the same nation and narratively treat each other as they are. You are not even mechanically separate as even through the Merntir count as a vassal of the Arthwyd, they are still both part of the same nation. Just because the Arthwyd and the Merntir have separate cultures and acknowledge that fact doesn't mean that they consider themselves two seperate countries anymore than someone from Texas and someone from Calfornia acknowledging that they are from separate states means that they don't consider each other to be both part of the USA.

I might be mechanically treating the Merntir as a separate civ, but I have also made it repeatedly clear that narratively speaking, that is not the case and that the narrative always trumps mechanics.

Marlin said:
The Mentir heroes are not our male great persons, they are the Mentir's heroes.
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Marlin said:
and the player civ hasn't had a male great person they remember?
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Curyn and Cadyn are male heroes of the People and therefore the People have had great people that they remember. The idea that the Arthwyd are just going to ignore their existence because they born amongst the Merntir is just dumb and once again, it is another claim that not only has no basis in anything that has happened in the quest, but directly goes against what has said to be the case.
 
[X] Regular Warriors. Following the barbaric ways of the lowlanders, the People will train large numbers of warriors to fight for the People. This will give more fighters for the People, but some will be unhappy at following the barbarian ways of the lowlands (+1 Temp Martial, -1 Legitimacy, Gain Value Quality Of Its Own)

Don't spread ourselves too thin, and hey those walls sure did something.
 
Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations - Civ Quest - Original | Page 143 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 3557-3760]
##### NetTally 1.9.7
[X] Sacred Warriors. The People shall not follow the barbaric practices of the lowlands, but shall train warriors that serve the goddesses in sacred duty. They shall be few in number and take more resources to train, but it will make the People happier and they shall be better than regular warriors. (-1 Temp Mystic, -1 Temp Culture, +1 Stability, Gain Value Sacred War)
No. of Votes: 41
looseanon
00dread
10ebbor10
AegisCollector
ALanos
Alessandro1988
Bookreader
Brogatar
buli-buli
Cariyaga
Chrestomanci
Dark as Silver
demonthese2211
Donkey Hote
Emral282
EWilanO
Frankite316
JaceAoT
jamie96969
jjffjhjf
Knight Draco
KnownParadox
LonelyWolf999
mrsean22
nat_401
nkd1325
Omegahugger
One Autumn Leaf
PurposefulZephyr
Raichu1972
RandomDwarf
Redciv3
Rockeye
silverwolf
Skjadir
Star
taovkool
thefoolswriter
Vanguard_D
Wentley
Zaealix
[X] Regular Warriors. Following the barbaric ways of the lowlanders, the People will train large numbers of warriors to fight for the People. This will give more fighters for the People, but some will be unhappy at following the barbarian ways of the lowlands (+1 Temp Martial, -1 Legitimacy, Gain Value Quality Of Its Own)
No. of Votes: 17
wingstrike96
Citino
Hallesworth49
HeWhoAdds
Mask
Mrcrazyattire
PoptartProdigy
pttpttrwttr
Pyre
Ralph Ramirez
Random Member
Raptor580
Somebodynobody10
sunrise
todbo
UlseDovThur
veekie
Total No. of Voters: 58
 
thefoolswriter said:
I don't get the reference
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Oshha said:
The Ymaryn, the player civ from Paths of Civilisation (the original civ quest of this nature on SV).
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Who, it should be noted, were not literally elves but often called that due to their isolationist tree-hugging nature. I, for one, prefered to think of them as devils, but that sadly got very little traction even after we 'accidentally' burned the world's first city to the ground.

(I maintain that we never got any confirmation that our ears were rounded, so that part remains elf-like even as magic got proven not-a-thing)
 
Omegahugger said:
Who, it should be noted, were not literally elves but often called that due to their isolationist tree-hugging nature. I, for one, prefered to think of them as devils, but that sadly got very little traction even after we 'accidentally' burned the world's first city to the ground.
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Didn't we burn the city because of the ork hero charging in? And also the fact that they had a wall made of bones, which we found grotesque?
...
Oh dear Arthryn, necromantic civs are a thing that's possible here, isn't it? Imagine a wall of bones, except it moves, writhing in agony.
 
So, odds are we will take Sacred War.
This will allow us to wage wars for religious and cultural reasons more effectively...but punish us for giving up on such wars.

Not too bad on its own, but it can react in complex ways with other values.
Oshha said:
Communal Mandate
As per the words of the goddess, loyalty and kindness to one's people is of the highest importance and even when times are tough or when it is not personally beneficial, one should stick by their community.
Pros: Reduced Internal Discontent, Increased Resistance to Foreign Intrigue,
Cons: Increase stability loss from taking actions which harm the People,
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Simply put, this means we'll be eating extra stability loss for giving up on those captured by outsiders, and we're very likely going to at least take lesser hits for giving up on revenge on the dead as well.
Oshha said:
Born Equal
While the choices of a person and the world around them can make a person greater or lesser, everyone is born equal to each other.
Pros: Decreased social stratification,
Cons: Decreased social stratification,
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We, CURRENTLY, find major inequalities abhorrent. We consider serfdom-like practices to be uncomfortable...and outright slavery can well provoke a moral war.
Oshha said:
Loyal Neighbours
The People do not abandon their own. They stand by their neighbours and community through thick and thin and do not yield when it comes to protecting their fellows.
Pros: Increased Unity during times of crisis,
Cons: Legitimacy loss when abandoning members of the People to harm and danger,
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Compounded again.
On top of Sacred War...well, anyone enslaving one of The People is going to be fought until one of us are gone.
 
veekie said:
So, odds are we will take Sacred War.
This will allow us to wage wars for religious and cultural reasons more effectively...but punish us for giving up on such wars.

Not too bad on its own, but it can react in complex ways with other values.

Simply put, this means we'll be eating extra stability loss for giving up on those captured by outsiders, and we're very likely going to at least take lesser hits for giving up on revenge on the dead as well.

We, CURRENTLY, find major inequalities abhorrent. We consider serfdom-like practices to be uncomfortable...and outright slavery can well provoke a moral war.

Compounded again.
On top of Sacred War...well, anyone enslaving one of The People is going to be fought until one of us are gone.
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Well, as I recall the Ymaryn might have simmilarly gone berzerk if you took their land away, but that nation was generally pretty good about not getting into fights/could diplomacy people into properly tending the land (helped that such things was something they were experts in+generally was as good for the people to pick up as for the land to receive)
 
veekie said:
Compounded again.
On top of Sacred War...well, anyone enslaving one of The People is going to be fought until one of us are gone.
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To be fair, this is something we already do.
Oshha said:
Some of this tribes would make the mistake of taking some of the People prisoner, taking them with them to serve them as forced labour. This was a mistake on their part that Cadyn made sure to both exploit and punish them for.

The People are the chosen of Arthryn and her daughters and she knows where all of her chosen people are. Whenever a tribe of Boarfolk would keep some of the People as slaves, Cadyn and the Merntirish fighters knew where to strike.

With hunting packs of regular hunters led by a Cateye or two, Cadyn would systemically pick off the offending tribes as the Merntirish would track them down in familiar lands before striking when the invaders were in a moment of weakness, either wiping out the whole tribe or crippling them.

It didn't take long for the nomad leader to figure out what was going on and soon the Boarfolk had stopped taking the People as slaves or at least taking them as slaves outside of the conquered villages.
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"So some of the boar-people took one of our citizens? USE GODDESSVISION TO FIND THEM AND ELIMINATE THEM ALL."

Enslaving people of Arthryn's blood is not something our enemies will do unless they are capable of taking us fully on, I think.
... Or I suppose they could get some kind of obscuring blessing from their own goddesses, that's also a possibility.
 
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Civ Quest Ruleset by Oshha (2.4)
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    • By the way, if anyone is interested in running their own civ quest, I got a basic version of the game mechanics I am using for this quest available. While I originally made the doc for @Rockeye at his request to help him with his own civ quest, I figured that since I made it, I might as well share it with everyone else.


    Oshha's Civ Quest Rules 2.4
     
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