Burden of the Emerald Empire (A Legend of the Five Rings Tale)

Off hand I'm wondering what you're willing to give him in exchange for stopping :V Ivindi Dinar's are as good as koku for the Zanj
Hey - he called us. Like I said, as far as Rokugan's concerned, if honorable battles to the death between our shugenja and his priests are keeping the conversion situation under control... well, Rokugan is generally okay with honorable battles to the death. If he wants the honorable battles to the death to stop, then this is what will make them stop. If he wants other deals beyond that, we're willing to listen.

The way I see it, they attacked us, with attempts at conversion, and we are responding as necessary to thwart those attacks. If he's coming here to talk cease-fire, then that's certainly a possibility. If what he's saying is "I want to be able to keep attacking you, perhaps in somewhat more limited ways, and have you not fight back as much" then no, that's not going to fly. That's the sort of thing you can pull when you're demanding concessions from a defeated foe, and I'm not thinking that he's in a position to do that.

Hmm...

If this conversation does fall through, we should totally take some of the more effective shugenja in that shadow war and have them form a Shugenja School for hunting down, rooting out, and killing heretics. We might as well leverage the advantages we have in this fight, and "superhuman badasses with specialized schools" is totally one of the advantages that Rokugan has. Perhaps try to popularize some sort of Shugenja dueling practice (in nonlethal form) that leads directly to honing the sorts of arts necessary for this shadow war. Give the up-and-comers some incentive for getting good at this.
 
Last edited:
In a broader sense, I was sort of looking at the 'okay cease fire what are you willing to give in order to get it' sort of thing if the answer is nothing, thats very Rokugani but not very pragmatic.
 
In a broader sense, I was sort of looking at the 'okay cease fire what are you willing to give in order to get it' sort of thing if the answer is nothing, thats very Rokugani but not very pragmatic.
Are we really suffering to the point that it would be worth giving up something for this cease fire? Are they beating us that badly?

I mean, if we are, then it might be worth throwing some stuff in there, but otherwise...?

I'm certainly not interested in paying the danegeld to a peer opponent.
 
Last edited:
No but it is a distraction that you might not want to have in light of other problems *Shrugs*
Given that... well, he called us. He seems to want this - he was trying very hard to have us not dismiss him outright. If the thing he wants that badly is "cease fire, and also you give us stuff", then that's not something that I think we want to just give him.

If he wants to normalize the relationship to a degree, and he can do it without trying to convert our people, then we have something to discuss. We are not opposed to mutually profitable trade. We are not opposed to exchanging assistance against our respective Corrupt Entities, and so forth. If his entire purpose in seeking this diplomatic accord is attempting to get us to allow him to assault the soul of Rokugan, though, then no, we're not going to give him that.

I suspect that once we make it clear that we consider his conversion attempts to be an attack, he'll find that he has very little left that he actually wants that he can reasonably justify asking for... and we do consider them to be an attack. We understand about slow and insidious corruption. We understand about camel-nosing your way in. Rokugan has dealt with the Shadowlands, and contains the Scorpion. He may pretend that his intentions in this area are either benign or limited, but we know better.

From the sounds of things, he's perhaps just trying to go for whatever he can get this generation, in the hopes that that can be a foothold with which to make greater gains in the next generation, and so forth. That's not a game we're interested in playing.
 
Alright with that in mind let's see what the tally puts out
Adhoc vote count started by gman391 on Aug 27, 2020 at 9:16 PM, finished with 19 posts and 5 votes.

  • -[x] We will not tolerate any concerted attempts to convert our people - not in Rokugan, not in the Jewel, not among the Mantis in foreign ports, not among the Unicorn as they range the trade roads.
    [x] Yes
    -[x] In support of that, entry by Zanj into Rokugan, especially of their priests, is going to be seriously limited, as the Zanj have already displayed a willingness to risk death in an attempt to convert us, and we don't trust them to run around in our territory unsupervised.
    -[x] We're actually largely okay with the current situation where the Zanj know to stay away because they know that if they don't, we'll kill them. It sounds like this man comes to us with reasons why we might wish to change our position on this. We will hear him out. If all that he desires is to have our holy men stop killing one another, though, then all he has to do is to convince his holy men to stop trying to convert our people.
    [X] No
 
Winter Court XV: Words of Fire
---Yes

You look at the Zanj for several moments, feel the weight of the sword at your side, as it pulses with radiant energy, disproving, judging, guiding. The thing that most Rokugani would do is to deny them instantly. In the end they are foreigners, gaijin. And while you have need of some of the gaijin, you have no need for these ones, for their jade yes, but not them, not their leaders, nor their god.

But as matters shift around, you recall Shahai's threat. Whether or not you agree to the terms that the Zanj puts forth is a different question from hearing them out.

"Very well Son of Desta, we will speak. I make no promises beyond that." You say at last.

"That is a beginning. Ah were you in Teorado proper I would pour for you as an honoured man. Alas, I cannot, but I think you would like our Kaffhi." Medr says.

"Tea has always been enough for me."

Medr shakes his head. "I do not understand how you can lack curiosity for the outside world. God has made it for us, should we not experience it to it's fullest?"

"The Gods named it yes and they set things in their place. The outside world has ever sought to steal, to harm, to destroy my people. We hold no love for those who would cast down our traditions." you answer.

"Ah..." He says a note of comprehension. "So you do not believe that those of your people mean good for yours? But then what of the pact?"

"The enemy of my enemy is an enemy that I do not have to fight today." You say.

The man looks tremendously sad.
"I see, how much have your people suffered to make your fire burn so dark? What happened. The Ivindi claim that you were scarred by something even they know not, in addition to the Wound."

A bitter angry of you wants to end this now. How could they not know? Know of when the Empress in her generosity let the gaijin see Rokugan's holy shore...only to be repaid with betrayal and assassination. How could they not know of the deaths of a generation of heroes, who had taken back the Empire from traitors?
HOW COULD THEY NOT KNOW?

And just as it rears up, you clamp it down. They wouldn't know. The Unicorn first and later your own agents have scoured the lands in every direction to find the Thrane and Merane...and found not a trace. There's no sign they ever existed at all save for the memory of the Empire and the bitter memorial to Empress Yugozohime held on the anniversary of her death every year.

"The Wound in of itself would be enough to make us wary of outsiders...but suffice to say the last time we allowed any beyond ambassadors to come to our lands, they made war on us and taught us a harsh truth. That we could not trust outsiders for they would always put their own needs and wants first." You say.

Medr frowns as he hears your cold words.
"A burned hand teaches much but it should not keep one from cooking. Yet our people are more alike than you think. We too were attacked by outsiders, worse, we were enslaved, it was only thanks to our God and His Prophet that we were freed. Yet, we see the pain as a reminder that the world is still fallen, that we must act, we must try to make the world better than we left it."

"And for that reason you send missionaries to my land, and try to tear them from all that is right and good for them?" You ask, your tone still a little cold.

Medr sighs.
"Tell me if you saw a child starving, and eating whatever they could get their hands on, which let them live but not thrive, what would you do?"

You understood the metaphor. You would feed them properly and see to it they were taken care of. So too the Zanj believed that they were fulfilling the need of spiritual nourishment. They were wrong, but they believed it and that was all that mattered to them.

"The Empire is not a child any more than your people are." You say.

A chuckle.
"Oh that we could be on the same side as allies rather than as foes. We would have had a Liberator as great as the First. However, if I said we were still children seeking to grow in the faith that has nourished us and saved us, what do you say then?"

"I would say that it is all very well for you, but my people do not need salvation. Shinsei has laid forth the path and while it is not easy, nothing truly of worth is. Our gods have saved us enough times to have earned our loyalty. Your god, however powerful they might be...has done nothing."

Medr puts a hand to his chin as if in thought.
"This is truth. The Pelmyrian's we helped with the Fimbulwinter, the Senpet we tore the chains from, the Yodotai we have rescued and slain in turn, the Ivindi we helped with their great wall. So you speak true, Yeham ever may he burn bright has not helped you. However, how can we help you if you will not us in?"

"What god needs a purely human agent to act?" You ask in turn.

"You think the Emancipator would place bond on you and deny you your freedom of choice?"

"I would say that freedom is over rated. I am bound by the chains of duty, of honour, of history, and that is true for all of us. To deny those chains is nothing more than childishness."

"You are bound just as you say, but should you be bound?" Medr asks.

"What sort of question is that? How else would it be? we are all born to our place as the Heavens decree, and we all must fulfill our dharma." You say.

"So I am told, I must admit your Wheel of Reincarnation seems quite unfair. To be punished for sins you do not even remember? Quite unfair, and it is that reason that our Liberator was so eager to preach to your people." Medr says.

"And you are not?" You ask sarcastically.

"No I am, but I know I cannot force any of you to understand. No matter how many holy men and women I send. So long as you see us as outsiders, as defilers, our words will fall on hard hearts and deaf ears. So we must find another way." Medr says.

"I...We will not tolerate your continued attempts to convert our people. The Celestial Order does not take kindly to those who would disrupt it." You say.

Burden seemed to burn with righteous anger with you.

"We seek no political change in of itself..." Medr begins and you cut him off.

"I rule by the order of Lady Sun and Lord Moon. By the blood of gods that flow through my veins. I am their representative on the mortal plane. To turn my people from the Kami and the Shintao is to turn them from me and my dynasty."

Medr takes a moment to process that, seeming greatly confused by the notion of Lady Sun. Yes Yakamo had been Lord Sun for perhaps fifty years, but that wasn't that strange.

"I think I see now why you hunt us so. I cannot stop people from choosing to speak to yours and to talk to them about their faith. Our faith is that of freedom and integrity. I cannot snuff those flames out. However, no more direct attempts will be made. Our traders and people will still go to the City of the World's Desire, the Ivindi and Pelmyrian's have allowed us that much, and if they talk to your traders then they talk. Is this acceptable?"

"So long as they do not try to convert them, and we will be watching them" You say.

"I know, but as I said, what they do, we cannot control, for we do not deny freedom to our people" Medr says a gentle rebuke.

You frown, you don't like it, but you suppose you can accept the notion that the gaijin don't have the absolute power of life and death over their people. A clear sign of their inferiority.

"Very well." You say. "So long as they stay in the Jewel...er City of the World's Desire without being sanctioned by your government, we will send them back to their district instead of killing them. The ban on them being in Rokugan proper remains however."

Medr slowly nods.
"And the matter of Jade?"

"I'm listening," you answer.

"We will continue to liaise through Ivindi. However, a one time shipment of substantially larger quality will be sent if you make us a promise. We will also send our holy book. The Message of Redemption in your tongue. I would ask that you read it, and that you let your high priest read it."

"You won't convert us with that." You say.

"I know, but I want you to see what we believe, to understand us. You are not ready to listen today, your people may never be ready to listen. But if we do not leave a light on for you even a tiny candle, then we have truly failed. So we will send our text, our candle, and hope it will one day light the way to freedom for you" Medr says.

"How much more substantial are talking about."

"How much Jade do you use in a year?" Medr asks.

"Ideally we have fifty tons of Jade a year in use." You say.

Medr's eyes widen slightly as he does some mental arithmetic.

"Then we will send you five hundred tons."

Isshin gasps slightly. That was what the output of Jade for the entire Empire had been under the Hantei. To just give it up for reading a book, not even to people who would actually be convinced. Well it was not a deal that any Rokugani would easily turn down. You think you can hear your Crab lineage screaming at you to take the deal.

It was a hard offer to refuse. Too good really, but the man in the flame seemed utterly sincere. So was there a trick? Something more? You couldn't tell. Burden seemed to pulse warmly at your side.

[] Yes you will agree to this deal.
[] No you smell a trap, you thank him but Rokugan has made do with the trade with the Ivindi, you will continue to do so.

-----------------------------
Pick one of two world updates
[] Rokugan update (Covers the Clans and the people)
[] The World Update (Covers the rest of the world)
 
[x] Yes you will agree to this deal.

[x] The World Update (Covers the rest of the world)

Edit: I am too tired to truly explain my reasoning fully and will do so in tommo... Hrm later today actually damn didn't realize what time it was. That being said a part of me suspects this actually isn't a trap he really does just believe that much and simply doesn't get unless something drastic changes in the empire it won't really will not have any effect. Or maybe he does and just wants the possibility to be there no matter how slim. Either way for the jade it's worth the risk.
 
Last edited:
Really wish I knew about the Zanj beyond this quest. Obviously no outsider is trustworthy, but after failing to convert Shem-ze with the book I'm not sure what there could be to the trap.
Also:
"Ideally we have fifty tons of Jade a year in use." You say.

Medr's eyes widen slightly as he does some mental arithmetic.

"Oh wow. You guys are more fucked than I realised."
ftfy
 
Really wish I knew about the Zanj beyond this quest. Obviously no outsider is trustworthy, but after failing to convert Shem-ze with the book I'm not sure what there could be to the trap.
Also:

ftfy
I um might have made them up. Like they are not canon at all. Unless I get hired on as a writer by FFG for whenever they make an actual Unicorn book. But yeah ask me about them on the discord.
 
[x] Yes you will agree to this deal.

[x] The World Update (Covers the rest of the world)

Learning about your new frenemies and an almost mountain of jade is very worth. A lot of jade anyway.

assuming L5R jade has the same density of the real world gemstone:
500 tons = 453592 KG
453592 x1000 to convert to grams = 453592000 g
453592000/3.25 for the density of jade at 3.25g/cm³
That comes out to 139,566,769.231 cm³ or actually bigger than Mt. Fuji by a bit more than a third.


@gman391 Either my math is wrong, Medr has literal mountains of jade, or that number needs to be revised downwards a bit.

My math was wrong.
 
Last edited:
I um might have made them up. Like they are not canon at all. Unless I get hired on as a writer by FFG for whenever they make an actual Unicorn book. But yeah ask me about them on the discord.
Lol. I knew some of the outsiders where canon (although thats all I knew about them) so I assumed all where.

E:

assuming L5R jade has the same density of the real world gemstone:
That comes out to 139,566,769.231 cm³ or actually bigger than Mt. Fuji by a bit more than a third.

@gman391 Either my math is wrong, Medr has literal mountains of jade, or that number needs to be revised downwards a bit.
I think your math is wrong
About a double bus

500 tons / density of jade - Wolfram|Alpha

Wolfram|Alpha brings expert-level knowledge and capabilities to the broadest possible range of people—spanning all professions and education levels.

1.492×10^8 cubic centimeters - Wolfram|Alpha

Wolfram|Alpha brings expert-level knowledge and capabilities to the broadest possible range of people—spanning all professions and education levels.
 
Last edited:
assuming L5R jade has the same density of the real world gemstone:
That comes out to 139,566,769.231 cm³ or actually bigger than Mt. Fuji by a bit more than a third.

@gman391 Either my math is wrong, Medr has literal mountains of jade, or that number needs to be revised downwards a bit.
I think your math is wrong
If they shipped it as a single brick it would be about a double bus size.

500 tons / density of jade - Wolfram|Alpha

Wolfram|Alpha brings expert-level knowledge and capabilities to the broadest possible range of people—spanning all professions and education levels.

1.492×10^8 cubic centimeters - Wolfram|Alpha

Wolfram|Alpha brings expert-level knowledge and capabilities to the broadest possible range of people—spanning all professions and education levels.
 
Last edited:
Lol. I knew some of the outsiders where canon (although thats all I knew about them) so I assumed all where.

E:


I think your math is wrong
About a double bus

500 tons / density of jade - Wolfram|Alpha

Wolfram|Alpha brings expert-level knowledge and capabilities to the broadest possible range of people—spanning all professions and education levels.

1.492×10^8 cubic centimeters - Wolfram|Alpha

Wolfram|Alpha brings expert-level knowledge and capabilities to the broadest possible range of people—spanning all professions and education levels.
Yeah, forgot to convert the number from cm to km. (i.e divide by 1000 twice) It makes the numbers much more sane.
 
Last edited:
I think that the first clue something was wrong was when you estimated Mt Fuji weighed much less than 500 tonnes (or tons, I dunno if they're metric or imperial in this universe).
As much as it hurts the Canadian in me. I can't have the Empire of Rokugan not use Imperial measurements.

I smell some Crab arguments for some manifest destiny regarding Zanj Lands.
Yeah with what boats though?
 
As much as it hurts the Canadian in me. I can't have the Empire of Rokugan not use Imperial measurements.
Fair enough, let it be known that the Empire of Rokugan uses standard British Imperial units for measurements. :p:V
Yeah with what boats though?
The Mantis are in large part descended from the Crab, for 500 tons a year I think they'll figure it out even if they need to swim there. :rofl::lol::rofl:
 
I think that the first clue something was wrong was when you estimated Mt Fuji weighed much less than 500 tonnes (or tons, I dunno if they're metric or imperial in this universe).
I was going for volume and I also made the foolish assumption that jade would be less dense than basalt instead of more.

Still almost twice the volume of a blue whale is an incredible amount.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top