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Belated Battleships (KanColle) [REHOST]

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Her skin tone looks much paler to me too. It might just be the contrast of much darker clothing, but on the other hand I remember some of the reactions to her appearance when she was first introduced...
 
PAGDTenno said:
Japan started World War 2 with one of the dumbest strategic decisions in the history of war, and proceeded to continue with strategic foolishness mixed with occasional moments of tactical intelligence.
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I think of the attack on Hawaii was three strikes.
Strike 1: Attacking Hawaii, why?! If your real target was oil fields south of the Philippines then just attack the Philippines! No one gives a (you know what) about the Philippines! (sorry Sheo but it was kinda true at the time)
Strike 2: Shoddy workmanship. If you're going to destroy something that's got high strategic importance to your enemy, the least you can do is do a good job of it. Forget the carriers for a moment, I doubt taking them out would've made much of a difference in the end anyways. America still would've kicked their asses. But ignoring the oil fields and the sub pens. Those little boats came out in a feeding frenzy!
Strike 3: Sneak Attack. A fair number of the Japanese field commanders in the Navy all knew that attacking Hawaii was a bad idea. Nagumo knew it, Yammamoto knew it. Yammamoto might've been one of the very few who knew that a sneak attack was a very very bad idea! He certainly knew it after the attack when he listened to the broadcasts. The quote about the "sleeping giant" is just another way of saying "Oh shit! We're fucked now!" And Japan was. Because that's Strike number 3 and they are out!

Darth Herobrine said:
And is stealing Nagato's Kai Ni look. And what appears to be Pringles' tunic.
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What Mushi needs is MORE CLOTHES!!

Nicholas said:
As a historian, let me tell you this is impossible. There is no chance anyone can completely remove themselves from their biases, and trying to do so only makes them much more obvious.
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Most everyone has bias. What I mean by this is simply that there's a limit to how much bias you can have. Good god man don't get me started on the biases shown in early studies of Native Americans when History as a subject was trying to become a science. (And failing miserably by the way) So a little bit of bias is okay. It's part of the historians opinion. But there can be too much. Like simply stating that you don't like this or that. Well, historians need to give a reason why. Then that's reasonable. Otherwise its ridiculous.
 
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Harry Leferts said:
Oh, and Musashi is getting a new look:

20 Inch Guns (yes, the same as the A-150s) and now Jersey won't be able to make cracks about her not wearing a shirt.
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Johnston will be disappointed...no more Mushi's mushie's to ogle. :D
Nicholas said:
Her skin tone looks much paler to me too. It might just be the contrast of much darker clothing, but on the other hand I remember some of the reactions to her appearance when she was first introduced...
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I agree...her skin does look paler. She looks good, though...glad to see they gave her 20s! (Best Kai Ni of late is still Tatsuta, though...dayum! :D)
 
Pearl was Yamamoto's brainchild/baby. To the point he basically bullied the (very opposed) IJN command into doing it by threatening to resign. He actually did that every time he had a Grand Plan (tm) that the Navy was leery of. He may have understood, on some level, that Japan was screwed...but that idn't stop him from getting his way.

And the Third Strike was mythical. Even if it was proposed at all, Japan had shot their bolt. There wasn't enough left on those carriers for a proper third strike into a (now very awake) American defense. Compare losses in the first and second waves and imagine how a third would fare. That, and even if you manage to destroy the fuel pens it doesn't matter much.

The bottleneck was always oilers, and that isn't changing. That and the oil tanks are pretty easy to repair.



Anyhoo, I want to see the other new designs. Specifically that RN DD because it's always a good day when we get new Brits.
 
LadyPearl said:
JerJer gets more fun. Ain't that right JerJer... *gets shelled repeatedly* Okay, I deserved that... *gets shelled again*
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The best way to get an angry Iowa to leave you alone is to die in the first salvo like a good little peon. :p

Failing that, remain very still and fake death. After a while, she will grow bored and move on to imbue Freedom! into another target.

I should kno-*Disappears in a furious barrage of Mk. VIII shells*

LadyPearl said:
It's not that I don't get that she's sacred. (She is.) I've been to Pearl and stood on the memorial. But wouldn't it be a better way to honor both the ship and the men by keeping the name alive?
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It's sort of sanctifying it to her exclusively. Sort of like how when a baseball player does exceptionally well, his jersey is retired permanently, but on a whole higher level.

Harry Leferts said:
Oh, and Musashi is getting a new look:

20 Inch Guns (yes, the same as the A-150s) and now Jersey won't be able to make cracks about her not wearing a shirt.
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Lookin' good, 'Sashi. Lookin' really good. Now go strut your stuff and make Big J feel all self-conscious like everybody here knows you want to. :p
 
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LadyPearl said:
Strike 1: Attacking Hawaii, why?! If your real target was oil fields south of the Philippines then just attack the Philippines! No one gives a (you know what) about the Philippines! (sorry Sheo but it was kinda true at the time)
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Because in 1941 the Philippines were a US possession (that was in the process of getting handed back to the Filipinos, but that is neither here nor there). The worry in Tokyo was when they made their move, the Pacific Fleet would have deployed forward to Manila and severed their supply lines to the Dutch East Indies/Malaya (which would have involved taking Singapore)/Indochina. That means that the Philippines, Wake, and Guam had to be taken, and the Pacific fleet had to be knocked out for six months (long enough to secure the oilfields in the DEI). Then the US would come to the negotiating table and all would be settled to Japan's favor.

Plus in 1941 Hawaii was a territory just like the Philippines had been and Guam and Wake were. Which is why 'Laska nearly had a sister named after Hawaii to join 'Laska and Guam. Surely one more territory attacked would not stir the Americans, right?

LadyPearl said:
Strike 2: Shoddy workmanship. If you're going to destroy something that's got high strategic importance to your enemy, the least you can do is do a good job of it. Forget the carriers for a moment, I doubt taking them out would've made much of a difference in the end anyways. America still would've kicked their asses. But ignoring the oil fields and the sub pens. Those little boats came out in a feeding frenzy!
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Again, Japan planned for a six-month war. Blitz Southeast Asia then negotiate to secure your gains. If the war only lasts six months, you don't need the oil reserves or the drydocks hit. So Wave 1 is tasked to attack the Battleships and Carriers, then Wave 2 destroys Cruisers. Furthermore, in Japanese naval doctrine, subs and lighter craft are used to scout for and weaken the USN before KANTAI KESSEN!! destroys them. Surely the USN goes by the same book, since they study Mahan too, right, right?

LadyPearl said:
Strike 3: Sneak Attack. A fair number of the Japanese field commanders in the Navy all knew that attacking Hawaii was a bad idea. Nagumo knew it, Yammamoto knew it. Yammamoto might've been one of the very few who knew that a sneak attack was a very very bad idea! He certainly knew it after the attack when he listened to the broadcasts. The quote about the "sleeping giant" is just another way of saying "Oh shit! We're fucked now!" And Japan was. Because that's Strike number 3 and they are out!
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They tried to send the 'breaking off negotiations' message before the attack (but screwed that up). That said, they badly misread the psychology of the attack and also how America would respond, no arguments here. Remember that a sneak attack had worked in 1905 and led to KANTAI KESSEN!! at Tsushima which was the IJN's great victory, so they were drinking their own kool-aide, in their own bubble, wondering why they are not 50 points ahead, pick the metaphor of choice for them walking blindly off the cliff with their epic strategic fuckup.

PAGDTenno said:
Japan started World War 2 with one of the dumbest strategic decisions in the history of war, and proceeded to continue with strategic foolishness mixed with occasional moments of tactical intelligence.
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Barbarossa was pretty up there too.

Mid-late 1941 was the Axis grabbing the Idiot Ball with all their strength.

Germany decided to gun for Russia, then Italy fucked an already iffy plan up by attacking Greece and needing a bailout, which led to Barbarossa getting pushed back while Hitler overran the Balkans, THEN going ahead anyway with less time on the clock. Then, just to put a capper on the year, Japan said "hold my beer" and attacked Pearl Harbor to bring America into the war and also reduce the threat to Vladivostok, allowing Russia to move reserves to Moscow.
 
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*obligatory Pasta defense*

Mussolini being an idiot aside, it's arguable that Greece didn't hurt Barbarossa all that much. Those extra troops (be it the Afrika Corps or the guys in the Balkans) would probably have just screwed over German logistics even harder than they already were. Which is saying something and...


Wait, wrong thread. This is cute bote girls, not alternate World War 2. >.>
 
SisterJeanne said:
Again, Japan planned for a six-month war. Blitz Southeast Asia then negotiate to secure your gains. If the war only lasts six months, you don't need the oil reserves or the drydocks hit. So Wave 1 is tasked to attack the Battleships and Carriers, then Wave 2 destroys Cruisers. Furthermore, in Japanese naval doctrine, subs and lighter craft are used to scout for and weaken the USN before KANTAI KESSEN!! destroys them. Surely the USN goes by the same book, since they study Mahan too, right, right?


They tried to send the 'breaking off negotiations' message before the attack (but screwed that up). That said, they badly misread the psychology of the attack and also how America would respond, no arguments here. Remember that a sneak attack had worked in 1905 and led to KANTAI KESSEN!! at Tsushima which was the IJN's great victory, so they were drinking their own kool-aide, in their own bubble, wondering why they are not 50 points ahead, pick the metaphor of choice for them walking blindly off the cliff with their epic strategic fuckup.
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You know if you know you're going to lose if you do this, then don't do it! That's not military strategy that's common sense! Idiot Ball doesn't do justice to this. This was an EPIC F*up of EPIC proportions!

Admiral_Corgi said:
I think Ari will very much approve of Musashi's new look. When she eventually gets it.
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How would you like your prude rage @Admiral_Corgi rare, medium or well done?
Skywalker_T-65 said:
*obligatory Pasta defense*

Mussolini being an idiot aside, it's arguable that Greece didn't hurt Barbarossa all that much. Those extra troops (be it the Afrika Corps or the guys in the Balkans) would probably have just screwed over German logistics even harder than they already were. Which is saying something and...


Wait, wrong thread. This is cute bote girls, not alternate World War 2. >.>
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No worries, but me be waiting for the rest of this post to appear on the Changing Destiny thread! :p
 
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LadyPearl said:
You know if you know you're going to lose if you do this, then don't do it! That's not military strategy that's common sense! Idiot Ball doesn't do justice to this. This was an EPIC F*up of EPIC proportions!
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Both before and during the war, Imperial Japan repeatedly misjudged and underestimated American resolve and capabilities.

Isn't there somewhere else we should be having this discussion?
 
Grumpkin said:
Both before and during the war, Imperial Japan repeatedly misjudged and underestimated American resolve and capabilities.

Isn't there somewhere else we should be having this discussion?
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Probably and unless anyone has any objections we'll be stopping. I'm not keen on directing the all powerful modes towards this thread!
 
LadyPearl said:
Probably and unless anyone has any objections we'll be stopping. I'm not keen on directing the all powerful modes towards this thread!
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Good point. So, I'd say we have more than enough combat power to serve Abyssmark with an eviction notice with extreme prejudice.

Here's what I'm seeing for our dance card: CV Akagi, CV Kaga, CV Shinano, BB New Jersey, BB Musashi, FBB Kongou, CC Saratoga, CB Alaska, CA Prinz Eugen, CA San Fransisco, CL St. Louis, CL Naka, DD Johnston, DD Hoel, DD Heerman. I suspect I'm missing a few screening ships from the IJN/USN shipgirl fleet.

Looks like Task Force 1 would be the carriers plus maybe Kongou/Sara/Laska as heavy screening elements, with cruisers and destroyers to protect them. Say the carriers, Taffies, Lou and either Sara, Kongou, or 'Laska to thicken up the AAA along with a few more DDs for the screen/planeguard. I'd personally say 'Laska since she has the best AAA of those three and would be death on cruisers.

Then you have the gunline built around Jersey and Mushi for the killing punch, your FBB/CB/CC to deal with the small fry and screen along with the CAs, Naka and DDs.
 
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