How about one that doesn't lose waterplane area as it starts riding lower in the water due to flooding, for starters?
Belated Battleships (KanColle) [REHOST]
- Thread starter theJMPer
- Start date
Tiypo
Forever Phone Posting
While I understand that there are some design issues, like almost all things, I don't understand how that affects if something looks nice or not. If there was a second group of destroyers based off Zumwalt to be built then I assume that flaws would be taken into account and improved upon; that's how things work in product design, and despite being a warship Zumwalt is still a product delivered to the U.S. Navy.
- Location
- North Carolina
The Zumwalt can't even fire RIM-66s, at least I don't think it can! Plus it doesn't even have an AEGIS Combat System!
- Location
- State of Denial
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Guys, gals, this is not the thread to be debating the aesthetic of naval ships and/or the capabilities of the Zumwalt. Those deserve their own threads.
- Location
- Canada
Iowa: ...."Zumie-Chan"?
Missouri: Note to self, don't let Wisky have any more all night binge sessions on anime...
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- Location
- Arizona
Not commenting on DD's but I've always thought Alaska's were incredibly pretty ships. Thus I'm in love with Alaska in BB 
- Location
- State of Denial
Where's Atago when you need her?Not commenting on DD's but I've always thought Alaska's were incredibly pretty ships. Thus I'm in love with Alaska in BB
pjmoyer
Terrapin Corps
- Location
- Maryland
I am so jelly. Zumwalt is such a pretty ship but I don't think it's gonna be on the West Coast sny time soon.
Actually, it's going to home port in San Diego. So it'll theoretically be reachable.
- Location
- 'Murica
'Laska: *Confused large cruiser noises*Not commenting on DD's but I've always thought Alaska's were incredibly pretty ships. Thus I'm in love with Alaska in BB
Atago: he he! Now kiss!
Omake: Eurobotes
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
And stuff like this is why I know I'll end up shipped in and out of story if Sara shows up.
Anywho, Eurobotes:
"This is the first time you've really seen snow like this, isn't it Hood?"
Silence answered that question, as HMS Hood stared up above her. Her bright blue eyes were a bit wide, while flakes of cool snow fell down on her body. Her right hand rose up into the air, fingers gently splayed out to catch the snow as it fell. She wouldn't tell anyone this, ever, but a small- childish -smile had crossed her face the first time she came out into the snow. And it lingered, while a fairy clambered over her hand, a little bucket collecting the snow.
She may have let out a little giggle at the sight.
Maybe.
"You'd think you never served in the North Sea." Barham, the only battleship currently on base with the battlecruiser, had come out with her. And the younger Queen Elizabeth sister didn't even bother hiding the grin on her face. Bright white teeth gleamed in the dull, overcast light, like a searchlight mounted in her mouth. "Honestly Hood, it's just snow."
Turning her head down, Hood's elegant eyebrow raised up just a tad, "Says the battleship that spends most of her time in Sweden."
Barham brought up a finger to counter that point...only to lower it. Her broad shoulders shrugged up, her grin turning self-deprecating when she did so.
"Point. Still, never been out in the snow before?"
"Not like..." Hood sighed softly, her fairy vanishing down the sleeve of her long uniform top. Her arms came up to her modest chest, crossing in a loose hug. "Not like this, at least. I remember what it was like when I was a ship, but this is my first time out in the snow like this. It's..."
Well, it was new. And exciting. Hood loved the simple feeling of snow falling on her long blonde hair, tied back in a loose ponytail. She loved the biting cold of a British winter rushing against her bare legs. The battlecruiser even loved the bloody overcast sky.
In some ways, it was a reminder of the fact she wasn't a ship now. Sometimes, more than she cared to admit, she needed that reminder. That she wasn't stuck in the water all the time, slowly wasting away for a lack of time or funds. She was human.
And it was truly wonderful.
"Well, I guess I understand that." Barham reached a hand over, even though she could only reach up to Hood's shoulder. She still reached over and tugged the battlecruiser into a loose hug, "But don't get all mopey on me! Dreadnought gave me an order not to let you act like that, and I'm not going to disappoint Mum."
Hood wondered if that was an actual order- not that it would surprise her, bloody Dreadnought -or if it was just Barham being Barham. The girl was entirely too clingy for a battleship!
But...it did feel nice.
"Th..." Hood began to vocalize that feeling, but she didn't get the chance.
Because if Barham hugging her was one thing, it was another entirely when she felt a pair of smaller arms wrap around her wide waist. Her shapely stern was pressed against a much flatter chest, soon joined by another. Bloody hell...
"Glowworm, Grafton, please let me go." Hood didn't raise her voice, but she did try to twist around to give a disapproving stare on the destroyers.
Except every time she tried to move, they would shift with the movement like a pair of ducklings behind their mother. Hood's every effort to twist around and look at the destroyers was stymied. Every bloody time she twisted her body around, they clung tighter to her stern, daring the battlecruiser to try and see them.
Clearly, the Yanks were a bad influence.
"They've got you Hood, might be better just to let them stay there." Barham, the traitor, was giggling merrily. Her brown hair danced in the snow, framing a face flushed pink with amusement.
"That solves nothing," the battlecruiser shot back sourly, once more trying to twist around. "Come on you two, if you want something at least look me in the face!"
The destroyers just giggled themselves, only one pair of hands leaving Hood's waist. A pair quickly revealed to be Glowworm, the little girl grinning widely up at the much larger battlecruiser. Her black-red scarf twisted around the destroyer's neck, flowing in the wind much as her twin-tailed hair did. Her bright blue eyes danced with merriment, the destroyer practically radiating happiness.
It was impossible to stay angry with such a cute girl. The way her cheeks dimpled in the grin, her little wand twirling in one of her hands...
Bloody hell, she was adorable at the best of times. The snow didn't help.
"Sorry, Miss Hood," the little destroyer bowed slightly, but her grinning face never once left its stare up at Hood. "Sis and I just wanted to say hi. You don't come out here much!"
"I..." well, couldn't very well argue that point. Shaking her head, Hood let a sad smile cross her face, "Can't argue that. Still, there are better ways. And your sister still hasn't unhanded my stern."
"Don't wanna." Grafton's softer voice was muffled by her face being pressed into Hood's muscular back. "Comfy."
An elegant eyebrow went up, when Hood looked down on a now-blushing Glowworm, "Hm?"
Nervously twirling her wand, Glowworm sidestepped Hood's glance, reaching behind the battlecruiser's wide hips to grasp at her twin sister, "Sis, get out here!"
Glowworm's hiss didn't do much good, but her arm tugging her sister did. With a pitiful whine, the redheaded destroyer was tugged out from her position. Grafton was dressed much the same as her sister, in a short sweater that barely reached her thighs, a short skirt underneath that. Where Glowworm wore blue and white, Grafton wore green and gold though.
That, and her neck lacked the scarf. Which...
Poor girl...she must be cold.
Hood, for all that she wasn't used to her new body in the snow, did know that having a scarf kept one warm. Glowworm looked much more comfortable than her sister did.
No wonder...
"Are you cold?" Hood asked, the annoyance leaving her voice when she leaned down to look the destroyer in the eyes. Her flagship instincts reasserted themselves something fierce, the battlecruiser staring at the destroyer.
Grafton flushed pink, but nodded, "Hmm."
Smile on her face, not even faked this time, Hood reached up to her own neck. Her dark blue scarf came away with her hands, the battlecruiser leaning down further to reach around Grafton's own petite neck. Hood's expert hands gently wrapped the deep blue fabric around Grafton, fingers softly twisting and turning as she tied it together.
Hmm...poor girl...
Humming softly, Hood gave one final tug before pulling back to admire her handiwork. Grafton was pretty thoroughly wrapped up in the scarf, her little fingers reaching up to rub along it.
"Thank you..." the soft-spoken destroyer whispered, looking up with genuine thanks in her eyes.
Hood just shook her head, ignoring the sudden chill to her own body, "No need to thank me. I'm a flagship, it's my job to look after my charges. Even if they're bloody pains in my rear."
The last was said with a joking tone, but both destroyers still flinched a tad.
"Sorry..." Glowworm shuffled uncomfortably, her free hand tugging on one of her twin-tails.
"Again, don't do that. Bloody apologies..." Hood shook her head, turning to look at Barham. "The Swedes like this?"
Barham giggled as she nodded, "Oh yeah, they are."
Snorting softly, Hood shook her head one more time before getting fully to her feet. The battlecruiser groaned softly, old joints shifting with a groan of badly-oiled steel. Even in this body, some things never changed.
Ah well, at least she didn't have to worry about stripping a turbine now.
"Now, why did you two come out here? Can't just be to visit me."
Glowworm frantically nodded, "It was though! Sis and I are normally with Furious, this is the first time we've seen you in months!"
Each nod sent her pigtails flying, as the Norwegian campaign veteran waved her wand around. Hood watched that warily, little green sparks flying from the tip of the wooden stick.
Where had that destroyer gotten the thing?
On second thought...
Probably don't want to know, do I?
"You could have just waited until Dreadnought got back," Hood smiled at the destroyer, reaching a hand out to gently grip her wrist so that she stopped waving her wand crazily. "We have a meeting scheduled then. Debriefing those Swedes she's been training for..."
"A month," Barham helpfully supplied.
"That." Hood nodded, rolling her eyes at the battleship.
She was the flagship of the Royal Navy, she knew these things!
"...but that would be a meeting..." little Grafton softly spoke, her hands absently rubbing Hood's scarf around her neck. Red hair fell in front of purple eyes, the destroyer staring up at the battlecruiser. "And we wouldn't get to talk to you like this."
A little spike went into Hood's heart at the pleading tone from the destroyer. Whatever annoyance that may have been in her from the glomping was gone, as she reached out a hand to ruffle the girl's red hair. Glowworm pouted at her sister receiving that care and moved forward herself, practically thrusting her head out at the battlecruiser.
Despite herself, Hood could only roll her eyes and reach her other hand out to pat Glowworm on the head too. Didn't matter what ship they were, what nation they were from, or the situation. Ship girls...
Enjoyed headpats.
Well, if they want to spend time with me, I can hardly say no. I get the feeling we won't have the time forever.
And so, as snow continued to fall on the little group, Hood- pride of the Royal Navy -headpatted two little destroyers, content to spend time with them if that was what they wanted.
-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-
The snow was soothing, icy waves much more her home than the warm waters of the Mediterranean. The united forces of the Turk and the Greek may have driven her forces back, but that hardly mattered. It was a temporary setback at the most. Ruling the waves was in her blood, even if it had been torn from her so long ago. Let the fools believe they had won. Her surrogates would continue fighting them, while a more opportune target presented itself.
I will not lose this time.
Her American counterpart had been a fool, lured into a trap by a ship not even fit to wear her title. She would not make the same mistakes.
For thick black smoke mixed and melded with the snow falling atop her twisted deck, staining the frozen water black as night.
Smoke belching from the stacks of a fleet that would see the Royal Navy defeated. They welcomed the snow for its beauty. A symbol of peace, much as the time of the year. She welcomed it as cover.
None could observe her, nor her escorts. Destroyers darting to and fro, hateful eyes watching for submarines. Cruisers, bristling with guns that would destroy any and all planes that dared to look her way. Battleships, mighty warships prepared to kill whatever approached. And of course, the leader herself. The Princess herself.
Admiral...she is not worthy of that name.
Hate-filled eyes looked into the distance, where the British Isles were hidden by the snowstorm. Her actions in the Middle Sea had failed to draw British eyes. Failed to draw the attention of their blonde-haired leader. A warship that had raw rage flying through her at the very thoughtof. A dull glow gleamed from dual turrets, trained towards the distant islands. Silent, but not for long.
Those fifteen-inch rifles would soon speak her fury for all to hear. The leader of the Royal Navy would feel the anger and pain that the Princess had felt. She would see death and destruction wrought upon her friends and comrades. If not by the hands of those in the Pacific, reliving the past, then by her hands. Hood would feel what she had felt.
You will pay for everything...you lived while I died...you are not forgiven, Hood!
Anger fueled the twenty-four boilers that powered her steam turbines. One-hundred and forty-four thousand horsepower pushed her through the choppy North Sea, towards the British Isles. Her bow sliced through the water at a steady twenty knots...gradually moving closer and closer to the thirty knots that was her top speed. Thick, choking smoke, dark as night, flowed forth from her twin stacks.
Her lean, dark hull cut through the crests of waves, not even a hint of worry for the rough seas. She had been built for this, it was nothing to her. Even the spray icing over her four turrets did little to concern her.
This was what she had been built for. Hunting prey that could not escape her speed or firepower. Those who had designed her would be proud...for as long as it took her to destroy them.
Baleful eyes, turning away from the spray of water across her bows, instead looked up to the skies. For even those who could escape her speed could never escape those of her escort.
Elegant little fighters circled the air above her, pitch black against the overcast skies. Their long noses were unlike anything the British had faced before, and they were more than capable of destroying anything the British could dare throw at them. Elliptical wings and a large tail made them more maneuverable than even the legendary Spitfire. The long nose held an engine that roared even above the sound of the wind rushing by the planes.
Their mothership, the elegant lines of a liner slicing through the water, held back under her fighters. Bristling with guns, any who attempted to attack her would find themselves ruined.
We will not lose. We will destroy all.
And as a feral grin crossed a pale face, the Princess continued to her goal. Her long hull was ready to finally see combat. Her fifteen-inch guns were ready to fire at long last.
And nothing would get in her way.
A note to make though:
While this is setup for the next big battle, I don't intend to do that until after Abyssko (hey, if I don't like people calling Atomic CC Princess Sara, I'll return the favor for those who like Bisko) shows up. For story purposes.
So the next Europe bit will likely be either SMS Pringles or a rather more cracky Vasa bit.
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- Location
- State of Denial
"Hello Hood, Howe do yo do?"
- Location
- New Braunfels, Tecas
Is it the prettiest? No. But remember, a warship's goal is not to look pretty on parade. It is a weapon of war, meant to kill its opponent before it itself is killed. And when it comes to killing, I expect the Zumwalt IRL to do that just fine.
- Location
- North Carolina
I have stumbled across an interesting design that would be just about an even match for Alaska in all areas but one, which is speed, on paper at least. Let's take a closer look at the American Alaska class Large Cruiser and the Soviet Stalingrad class Battlecruiser.
Ship comparison inbound! If you are knowledgeable about the two ship classes that is going to be compared then don't read. If not, well then go right on ahead and read the comparison.
So, I was reading the thread and I noticed that the planned Soviet Battlecruiser Class: the Stalingrad class when compared to the Alaska class, well they compare quite nicely. Which lead me to wonder, how would a battle between these two ships go down? Just by giving the armament and armor of both ships a cursory glance, they appear to be equal. However let's examine each ship closely. From tonnage, to propulsion, to sensors, to weaponary, and lastly armor. But before we get into that, out of the ships in the class, only the Stalingrad was launched in the mid-1950s when she reached 70% and was used as a target hulk for ASM missiles, these missile tore the hell out of her superstructure, upper belt, and main decks, but surprisingly enough did not cause any leaks, granted the ship was rigged as a target. The ship was scrapped probably in 1962, but not before having missiles like the P-15 Termit fired at her as well as other Armor-Piercing Munitions.
With that out of the way, let's look at these two ships.
The Stalingrad class were a good deal heavier than the Alaska class, coming in at 40,234 tons standard displacement and a full load displacement of 46,627 tons. Compared to the Alaska class which has a standard displacement of 29,771 tons and a full load displacement of 34,253 tons. This means that the Stalingrad class weighs at least 11,000 tons more than the Alaska class, however there might be a good reason for this. The dimensions of the Stalingrad class are as follows, this class of ship comes in at 897 feet 8 inches long, a beam of 105 feet even, and a draft of 30 feet 2 inches, whereas the Alaska class is only 808 feet 6 inches long, with a beam of 91 feet 9.375 inches, and a mean draft of 27 feet 1 inch or a maximum draft of 31 feet 9.25 inches. This obvious size difference certainly explains why the Stalingrad class is heavier than the Alaska class. As for propulsion, this is where it begins to become obvious why the Stalingrad class is so much longer.
The Stalingrad class is powered by 12-water tube boilers turning four TV-4 Geared Steam Turbines turning four shafts generating 280,000 shaft horsepower allowing for a top speed of 35.5 knots. Whereas the Alaska class is powered by eight Babcock & Wilcock Boilers turning four double reduction geared General Electric Steam Turbines turning four shafts generating 150,000 shaft horsepower allowing for a top speed of anywhere between 31.4 to 33 knots. This is a massive advantage, meaning that should an Abyssal Stalingrad class where to ever get into the Gulf of Mexico it would be a disaster, because the only assets that we have in their can't catch her unless they overload the engines, this means that this Abyssal can dictate the engagement however it pleases, meaning that if things gets to hairy for it, the thing can simply runaway and the ship girls of the Combined Gulf Coast Command will never catch it, likewise if it succeeds in forcing the ship girls of Combined Gulf Coast Command to run, only the destroyers and possibly the Heavy Cruisers, but if they lose one Boiler than it becomes almost impossible.
Now while I couldn't find what sort of sensors that the Alaska class had, it's safe to say that it likely would have had an SK or SK-1 Air Search Radar, a SO-13 Surface Search Radar, a Mark 13 Fire Control Radar, plus most likely a Mark 12 AA Radar for her five inch guns with Mark 22 rangefinder. Now this is all nice and good, but the scary thing is the Stalingrad class has radars too, it has a Giuis-2 Air Search Radar, Rif-A Surface Search Radar, Iakor, Zalp, and Fut-B Fire Control Radars, Grot and Shtag-B Range-Finding Radars, this thing also has a couple of dirty tricks up it's sleeve Soltnse-1P Infrared Detectors meaning that you attack at night, the instant you fire your guns you will light up like Christmas tree on infrared, Gerkules Sonar, and then the biggest capability that this thing has is ECM warfare in the form of Korall and Machta Jammers. Looking at this, the Alaska class and the Stalingrad in the sensors department are just about equal it seems, although if the Stalingrad class wants to, it can engage ECM jamming and really screw over the radar systems of the Alaska class, forcing it to close in to engage via optics.
Now let's look at the main battery of each ship. Both ships would have been armed with nine 305mm guns in three triple turrets. Let's take a look at the Alaska class first for armament.
The main battery of the Alaska class was composed of nine 12in/50 Caliber Mark 8 Naval Guns, they fired a 1,140 pound AP round or a 940 pound High Capacity Round. The Bursting charge was 17.94 pounds of Explosive D for APC round and 79 pounds of Explosive D for the HC round. A full powder charge constituited 275 pounds in four silk powder bags. The muzzle velocity was for a new gun 2,500 feet per second for the AP round and 2,600 feet per second with an HC round using a full powder charge. At maximum elevation of the gun mount, 45 degrees these guns could hurl an AP Shell some 38,573 yards and a HC shell 38,021 yards. At 20,000 yards an AP shell from one of these guns would strike at a 17.5 degree angle at a velocity of 1,550 feet per second, and would penetrate either 3.02 inches of deck armor or 12.73 inches of side armor going off of the empirical formula for this. The turret that mounted these guns had a elevation rate of 12 degrees per second, a traverse rate of 5 degrees per second, and a loading angle of 7 degrees. Whenever the gun fired it would kick back 36 inches. They also had a rate of fire of 2.4 to 3.0 rounds a minute.
Now compared to the guns that would compose the Stalingrad's main battery, sadly their isn't a lot of data as these guns never entered service. So stuff like how big the projectiles are, etc. I simply couldn't find it. But what I did find was interesting, these guns had a designed rate of fire of 3.26 rounds per minute, the shell they fired was substantially lighter. With the Armor-piercing shell, Semi-Armor-Piercing Shell, and High Explosive round all weighing in at 1,030 pounds, but the Long-Range shell these things could fire as well was only 508 pounds. The propellant charge was substantially larger as well, at an astounding 508 pounds. As such, these guns had at least on paper incredible range, the muzzle velocity for the AP Shell was 3,117 feet per second, while for the Long-Range shell it was 4,265 feet per second. At maximum elevation of 50 degrees, these guns could hurl an AP round some 58,040 yards or a Long-Range Shell an incredible 139,270 yards however the source says to take these numbers with a grain of salt as the guns never entered service. At a range of 20,000 yards, an AP round from one of these guns will penetrate 1.42 inches of deck armor or 17 inches of side armor. Meaning that their is some good news in all of this. The turrets themselves had an elevation rate for the main guns of 10 degrees per second and a traverse rate of 4.5 degrees per second, sadly the information for the loading angle isn't know, but when fired these guns would kick back 47 inches.
Just by looking at the capabilities of the main guns of these ships. It's clear that the Stalingrad was mainly designed to acquire penetrations through the belt armor of it's target and not so much the deck of it's target. Hell at 20,000 yards a British Invincible class Battlecruiser, which is of the blow-up if you sneeze at them generation of Battlecruisers, this gun would struggle to penetrate the deck of that ship. However if it hits the belt, that round will slice right through the belt of the nameship of the Yamato class, but it will probably fail to penetrate Musashi because her 16in belt was angled at 20 degrees. However the Mark 8 12in/50 Caliber Gun that the Alaska class has way more flexibility, as it can penetrate both quite a bit of deck armor and a substantial amount of side armor. Meaning that with the Alaska class, if a shell strikes the deck it isn't an automatic fail to penetrate. Not to mention the guns are both tied into a radar GFCS so they are both bound to be accurate.
Now the Secondary battery in terms of which ship is better is a toss up, as it depends on what type of 130mm gun that the Stalingrad had, it would likely be the 130mm/55 Caliber B-2-U Gun Mount, so I would put them at just about equal. The reason I am not really comparing the guns here is because I couldn't find information on how far a 130mm B-2-U gun could fire a shell at 85 degrees of elevation. The Alaska does have a slight edge in AA firepower. Mainly because the Stalingrad class has six quadruple 45mm gun mounts and ten quadruple 25mm gun mounts. The Alaska class is better with fifty-six 40mm Bofors mounts in 14 Quadruple Mounts with the Mark 51 rangefinder and thirty-four 20mm Orelinkon Mounts in single mounts, meaning that while the Stalingrad has more small caliber AA guns, it's in fewer mounts.
Now the armor for these ships is where it gets interesting. The armor for the Stalingrad class Battlecruiser is as follows, the thickest part of the main belt is 7.1 inches, both of the upper decks are protected by 2 inches of armor, while the middle deck is protected by 2.8 inches of armor, the turrets are protected by 9.4 inches of armor, the barbettes are protected by 9.3 inches of armor, the secondary turrets are protected by 1 inch of armor, the conning tower is protected by 9.8 inches of armor, and the bulkheads are protected with anywhere between 5.5 inches to 4.9 inches of armor. So it all seems rather impresssive, but is what one would expect of a Battlecruiser, okay belt armor, somewhat poor deck armor, but great armor protecting the main battery guns, main battery barbettes, and the Conning tower.
Now I am rather certain that the Alaska class had Special Treatment Steel used in it's construction, meaning that it is better than the armor of the Stalingrad class Battlecruiser to a degree, but the armor is still not the best. The main belt armor of an Alaska is 9 inches thick but it thins down to 5 inches of armor, the armor deck is 3.8 to 4 inches of armor, the weather deck is protected by 1.4 inches of armor, the splinter deck is protected by 0.625 inches of armor, the barbettes are protected by 11 to 13 inches of armor, the main battery turrets have a 12.8 inch armored face, a 5 inches of armor on the roof, 5.25 inches to 6 inches of armor on the side of turrets, and 5.25 inches of armor protecting the rear of the turret, the conning tower is protected by 10 inches of armor and has a 5 inch armored roof.
Looking at the armor, one can tell straight away that at 20,000 yards a Stalingrad class simply won't penetrate an Alaska class at least the deck armor, unless of course it gets a golden BB. However it will slice through the belt like paper. This gives the Alaska class an enormous advantage at range, if the Alaska can keep at range and try and take the hits on the deck, it stands a very good chance of beating a Stalingrad class, but if a shot hits the belt, it will slice through it like paper. As it stands the Stalingrad has an enormous range advantage over the Alaska class. However probably at 35,000 yards is when the Stalingrad class can probably penetrate the deck of an Alaska class. But even at 30,000 yards a Stalingrad class won't be able to penetrate an Alaska class with deck hits. Still either way, looking at it. A Stalingrad class holds all of the cards, it was also designed for Operating the Soviet Northern Fleet and weather can be a bitch up their.
However one can't make a comparison of the ships by looking at simply the armor, or the firepower, or the propulsion. But at the sum of all of those parts, so while the Stalingrad class holds many advantages, it does have some glaring weaknesses, including the armor, the downright horrid deck penetration values at normal engagement ranges for ships for it's AP shells. The fact that it doesn't have a seaplane mount. In a straight up fight, it's really a toss up at who would come out on top, depending on the conditions and how it all goes down, either ship could possibly win in a battle.
The Stalingrad class:
The Alaska class:
Alright end of comparison for the two ships. Damn that was longer than I thought it would be.
Ship comparison inbound! If you are knowledgeable about the two ship classes that is going to be compared then don't read. If not, well then go right on ahead and read the comparison.
So, I was reading the thread and I noticed that the planned Soviet Battlecruiser Class: the Stalingrad class when compared to the Alaska class, well they compare quite nicely. Which lead me to wonder, how would a battle between these two ships go down? Just by giving the armament and armor of both ships a cursory glance, they appear to be equal. However let's examine each ship closely. From tonnage, to propulsion, to sensors, to weaponary, and lastly armor. But before we get into that, out of the ships in the class, only the Stalingrad was launched in the mid-1950s when she reached 70% and was used as a target hulk for ASM missiles, these missile tore the hell out of her superstructure, upper belt, and main decks, but surprisingly enough did not cause any leaks, granted the ship was rigged as a target. The ship was scrapped probably in 1962, but not before having missiles like the P-15 Termit fired at her as well as other Armor-Piercing Munitions.
With that out of the way, let's look at these two ships.
The Stalingrad class were a good deal heavier than the Alaska class, coming in at 40,234 tons standard displacement and a full load displacement of 46,627 tons. Compared to the Alaska class which has a standard displacement of 29,771 tons and a full load displacement of 34,253 tons. This means that the Stalingrad class weighs at least 11,000 tons more than the Alaska class, however there might be a good reason for this. The dimensions of the Stalingrad class are as follows, this class of ship comes in at 897 feet 8 inches long, a beam of 105 feet even, and a draft of 30 feet 2 inches, whereas the Alaska class is only 808 feet 6 inches long, with a beam of 91 feet 9.375 inches, and a mean draft of 27 feet 1 inch or a maximum draft of 31 feet 9.25 inches. This obvious size difference certainly explains why the Stalingrad class is heavier than the Alaska class. As for propulsion, this is where it begins to become obvious why the Stalingrad class is so much longer.
The Stalingrad class is powered by 12-water tube boilers turning four TV-4 Geared Steam Turbines turning four shafts generating 280,000 shaft horsepower allowing for a top speed of 35.5 knots. Whereas the Alaska class is powered by eight Babcock & Wilcock Boilers turning four double reduction geared General Electric Steam Turbines turning four shafts generating 150,000 shaft horsepower allowing for a top speed of anywhere between 31.4 to 33 knots. This is a massive advantage, meaning that should an Abyssal Stalingrad class where to ever get into the Gulf of Mexico it would be a disaster, because the only assets that we have in their can't catch her unless they overload the engines, this means that this Abyssal can dictate the engagement however it pleases, meaning that if things gets to hairy for it, the thing can simply runaway and the ship girls of the Combined Gulf Coast Command will never catch it, likewise if it succeeds in forcing the ship girls of Combined Gulf Coast Command to run, only the destroyers and possibly the Heavy Cruisers, but if they lose one Boiler than it becomes almost impossible.
Now while I couldn't find what sort of sensors that the Alaska class had, it's safe to say that it likely would have had an SK or SK-1 Air Search Radar, a SO-13 Surface Search Radar, a Mark 13 Fire Control Radar, plus most likely a Mark 12 AA Radar for her five inch guns with Mark 22 rangefinder. Now this is all nice and good, but the scary thing is the Stalingrad class has radars too, it has a Giuis-2 Air Search Radar, Rif-A Surface Search Radar, Iakor, Zalp, and Fut-B Fire Control Radars, Grot and Shtag-B Range-Finding Radars, this thing also has a couple of dirty tricks up it's sleeve Soltnse-1P Infrared Detectors meaning that you attack at night, the instant you fire your guns you will light up like Christmas tree on infrared, Gerkules Sonar, and then the biggest capability that this thing has is ECM warfare in the form of Korall and Machta Jammers. Looking at this, the Alaska class and the Stalingrad in the sensors department are just about equal it seems, although if the Stalingrad class wants to, it can engage ECM jamming and really screw over the radar systems of the Alaska class, forcing it to close in to engage via optics.
Now let's look at the main battery of each ship. Both ships would have been armed with nine 305mm guns in three triple turrets. Let's take a look at the Alaska class first for armament.
The main battery of the Alaska class was composed of nine 12in/50 Caliber Mark 8 Naval Guns, they fired a 1,140 pound AP round or a 940 pound High Capacity Round. The Bursting charge was 17.94 pounds of Explosive D for APC round and 79 pounds of Explosive D for the HC round. A full powder charge constituited 275 pounds in four silk powder bags. The muzzle velocity was for a new gun 2,500 feet per second for the AP round and 2,600 feet per second with an HC round using a full powder charge. At maximum elevation of the gun mount, 45 degrees these guns could hurl an AP Shell some 38,573 yards and a HC shell 38,021 yards. At 20,000 yards an AP shell from one of these guns would strike at a 17.5 degree angle at a velocity of 1,550 feet per second, and would penetrate either 3.02 inches of deck armor or 12.73 inches of side armor going off of the empirical formula for this. The turret that mounted these guns had a elevation rate of 12 degrees per second, a traverse rate of 5 degrees per second, and a loading angle of 7 degrees. Whenever the gun fired it would kick back 36 inches. They also had a rate of fire of 2.4 to 3.0 rounds a minute.
Now compared to the guns that would compose the Stalingrad's main battery, sadly their isn't a lot of data as these guns never entered service. So stuff like how big the projectiles are, etc. I simply couldn't find it. But what I did find was interesting, these guns had a designed rate of fire of 3.26 rounds per minute, the shell they fired was substantially lighter. With the Armor-piercing shell, Semi-Armor-Piercing Shell, and High Explosive round all weighing in at 1,030 pounds, but the Long-Range shell these things could fire as well was only 508 pounds. The propellant charge was substantially larger as well, at an astounding 508 pounds. As such, these guns had at least on paper incredible range, the muzzle velocity for the AP Shell was 3,117 feet per second, while for the Long-Range shell it was 4,265 feet per second. At maximum elevation of 50 degrees, these guns could hurl an AP round some 58,040 yards or a Long-Range Shell an incredible 139,270 yards however the source says to take these numbers with a grain of salt as the guns never entered service. At a range of 20,000 yards, an AP round from one of these guns will penetrate 1.42 inches of deck armor or 17 inches of side armor. Meaning that their is some good news in all of this. The turrets themselves had an elevation rate for the main guns of 10 degrees per second and a traverse rate of 4.5 degrees per second, sadly the information for the loading angle isn't know, but when fired these guns would kick back 47 inches.
Just by looking at the capabilities of the main guns of these ships. It's clear that the Stalingrad was mainly designed to acquire penetrations through the belt armor of it's target and not so much the deck of it's target. Hell at 20,000 yards a British Invincible class Battlecruiser, which is of the blow-up if you sneeze at them generation of Battlecruisers, this gun would struggle to penetrate the deck of that ship. However if it hits the belt, that round will slice right through the belt of the nameship of the Yamato class, but it will probably fail to penetrate Musashi because her 16in belt was angled at 20 degrees. However the Mark 8 12in/50 Caliber Gun that the Alaska class has way more flexibility, as it can penetrate both quite a bit of deck armor and a substantial amount of side armor. Meaning that with the Alaska class, if a shell strikes the deck it isn't an automatic fail to penetrate. Not to mention the guns are both tied into a radar GFCS so they are both bound to be accurate.
Now the Secondary battery in terms of which ship is better is a toss up, as it depends on what type of 130mm gun that the Stalingrad had, it would likely be the 130mm/55 Caliber B-2-U Gun Mount, so I would put them at just about equal. The reason I am not really comparing the guns here is because I couldn't find information on how far a 130mm B-2-U gun could fire a shell at 85 degrees of elevation. The Alaska does have a slight edge in AA firepower. Mainly because the Stalingrad class has six quadruple 45mm gun mounts and ten quadruple 25mm gun mounts. The Alaska class is better with fifty-six 40mm Bofors mounts in 14 Quadruple Mounts with the Mark 51 rangefinder and thirty-four 20mm Orelinkon Mounts in single mounts, meaning that while the Stalingrad has more small caliber AA guns, it's in fewer mounts.
Now the armor for these ships is where it gets interesting. The armor for the Stalingrad class Battlecruiser is as follows, the thickest part of the main belt is 7.1 inches, both of the upper decks are protected by 2 inches of armor, while the middle deck is protected by 2.8 inches of armor, the turrets are protected by 9.4 inches of armor, the barbettes are protected by 9.3 inches of armor, the secondary turrets are protected by 1 inch of armor, the conning tower is protected by 9.8 inches of armor, and the bulkheads are protected with anywhere between 5.5 inches to 4.9 inches of armor. So it all seems rather impresssive, but is what one would expect of a Battlecruiser, okay belt armor, somewhat poor deck armor, but great armor protecting the main battery guns, main battery barbettes, and the Conning tower.
Now I am rather certain that the Alaska class had Special Treatment Steel used in it's construction, meaning that it is better than the armor of the Stalingrad class Battlecruiser to a degree, but the armor is still not the best. The main belt armor of an Alaska is 9 inches thick but it thins down to 5 inches of armor, the armor deck is 3.8 to 4 inches of armor, the weather deck is protected by 1.4 inches of armor, the splinter deck is protected by 0.625 inches of armor, the barbettes are protected by 11 to 13 inches of armor, the main battery turrets have a 12.8 inch armored face, a 5 inches of armor on the roof, 5.25 inches to 6 inches of armor on the side of turrets, and 5.25 inches of armor protecting the rear of the turret, the conning tower is protected by 10 inches of armor and has a 5 inch armored roof.
Looking at the armor, one can tell straight away that at 20,000 yards a Stalingrad class simply won't penetrate an Alaska class at least the deck armor, unless of course it gets a golden BB. However it will slice through the belt like paper. This gives the Alaska class an enormous advantage at range, if the Alaska can keep at range and try and take the hits on the deck, it stands a very good chance of beating a Stalingrad class, but if a shot hits the belt, it will slice through it like paper. As it stands the Stalingrad has an enormous range advantage over the Alaska class. However probably at 35,000 yards is when the Stalingrad class can probably penetrate the deck of an Alaska class. But even at 30,000 yards a Stalingrad class won't be able to penetrate an Alaska class with deck hits. Still either way, looking at it. A Stalingrad class holds all of the cards, it was also designed for Operating the Soviet Northern Fleet and weather can be a bitch up their.
However one can't make a comparison of the ships by looking at simply the armor, or the firepower, or the propulsion. But at the sum of all of those parts, so while the Stalingrad class holds many advantages, it does have some glaring weaknesses, including the armor, the downright horrid deck penetration values at normal engagement ranges for ships for it's AP shells. The fact that it doesn't have a seaplane mount. In a straight up fight, it's really a toss up at who would come out on top, depending on the conditions and how it all goes down, either ship could possibly win in a battle.
The Stalingrad class:
The Alaska class:
Alright end of comparison for the two ships. Damn that was longer than I thought it would be.
Anyway, new Eurobotes! I have to admit I like it! As for the Abyssal that is slugging it's way toward the United Kingdom @Skywalker_T-65 you are so mean! That Abyssal, it's an Admiral class! The same class that Hood is! Meaning that the Abyssals are using one of Hood's sisters! You bastard! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO POOR HOOD, SHE HAS ENOUGH TO WORRY ABOUT AS IT STANDS THANKS TO HER CONSTANT NIGHTMARES ABOUT BISMARCK! WHY SKY?!?! WHY?!?
*takes chill pill*
As for the Fleet that is escorting likely a mix of British Warships, plus their is at least one Carrier in play, equipped with Seafires that are equipped with Griffon Engines, well at least they aren't Sea Furies or Seafangs. It probably has Fairiy Spearfish as well. The Abyssal Battleships are probably King George Vs maybe Lion class, the Cruisers are either County class or York class at least those are possible heavies, Light Cruiser Canadiates probably either Dido class, Crown Colony class, or Minatour class Light Cruisers, the destroyers at best we can expect A class Destroyers while at worst we can expect Battle class. As for that Carrier I am going to expect it to be an Implacable class, maybe a Courageous class Aircraft Carrier. As it stands, that Abyssal Fleet, taking that down, well it will likely be a bloody affair. I wouldn't be surprised if conventional support gets called in on this one. Well, at least the submarine that sank HMS Royal Oak isn't with that fleet, then it would be just a nasty as hell fleet to fight.
Also, sorry for the tremendous wall of text.
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Generic_Generica
Notice me Senpai~
- Location
- Right behind you
Uh... @Thorthemighty, sweetie? The first bit of that post is wildly off topic. I have no idea how that's relevant to anything that's been posted recently at all. Context please?
Also, completely informal request, but could you... iunno, spoilerize it or something? You don't have to if you don't want to but it is quite lengthy.
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Also @Skywalker_T-65: Not sure what to say aside from... good job. (Thumbs up.)
Also, completely informal request, but could you... iunno, spoilerize it or something? You don't have to if you don't want to but it is quite lengthy.
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Also @Skywalker_T-65: Not sure what to say aside from... good job. (Thumbs up.)
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obssesednuker
Commander of 10 Million Men
- Location
- In the Kremlin, activating Perimtr.
Euroboats omake! Neato... I swear I'll get around to uploading them to the FFN copy some day. I can't remember, is Warspite in yet and are we going with her Kancolle appearance or not?
Also, I combined the last two main story chapters into one for the FFN version, since they were short enough for it.
Also, I combined the last two main story chapters into one for the FFN version, since they were short enough for it.
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I'll just make a statement on this--since I hope to become a professional naval architect, when I look at a ship, I tend to also see it in engineering terms, and that colors my view of it somewhat. The Zumwalts threw out so many different rules of naval architecture that exist for reasons learned at great cost through painful experience that it makes it hard for me to see them in a positive light, because I just see all the ways that things can go wrong when Bad Things happen, like getting shot.
That, and they look sort of like someone put a prefab office block on a raft to me.
Now, Alaska and Showboat? THOSE are pretty ships...
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Why wait?
I absolutely am.
rofl:Of course you do, you're British. If you didn't enjoy 24/7 rain, you wouldn't be British!
AKA: No.
Aaaaaaand there goes my blood sugar.
I hope you're happy.
Because of course. We have one Destroyer obsessed with T, we have to have one obsessed with A.
Daaaaaaaaw. That is so heartwarming.
Swedish shipgirls?
... please tell me those are fireworks.
*takes notes for other Kancolle fics*
Abyssal... carrier?
And someone who'd judge Hood on being worthy or not of Admiral Hood's name...
Dual turrets, 15 inch guns, died while Hood lived...
Bisko.
No Nazi flag/ideology?
1. I want to say those fighters are carrier-converted FW-190-D-9s.
2. A kriegmarine surface raiding task force, interesting.
3. The explicit mention of 'lines of a liner' makes me hesitate to say it's Graf Zepplin, despite the 'bristling with guns' remark. The Jade-class were supposed to be converted from passenger liners.
4. And to keep up the train of remarks that make the speaker/things ambiguous as hell, the 'finally ready to see combat' and 'ready to fire at long last', atop other details like 'princess', strongly implies the speaker is Tirpitz.
Fair enough.
Rajvik_wolfboy
Wolf amongst the stars.
- Location
- Florida
Thanks for also remembering this, I thought it was a thing.
- Location
- North Carolina
I hope to God that the rally cry of "Avenge the Hood" won't be sung again. Mainly because I really like Hood, plus the two G class Destroyers are just cute as hell.
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Felix_Argyle
Extermination
- Location
- Lugunica
Messerschmidt Bf. 109 Perhaps? (Most likely, if not: google-sama is best bet)
EDIT: Wasn't there an Italian Copy of the 109? It had rounded wings
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- Location
- North Carolina
Can't be a Bf-109T, a Seafire would eat one of those for Breakfast. The performance of the Bf-109T was on par with the Bf-109 E series.
But, an Italian Reggiane Re.2001 OR Serie II is a real possibility, the Re. 2001 could dogfight with Spitfires, plus it was quick.
Another possibility is likely the Reggiane Re. 2005, now while their wasn't a Carrier model, this thing was a handful for Spitfire and Mustangs to handle, it had a serious amount of firepower as well, two 12.7mm Breda Machine Guns firing through the propeller arc, one 20mm MG 151 Cannon firing through the propeller hub, and two 20mm MG 151 Cannons in the wings.
But I am still betting on Reggiane Re. 2001 OR Serie IIs.
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