I've been thinking. Doesn't that mean that the Constitution would be a damn effective cruiser-equivalent, invisible to any and all rangefinders, and entirely immune to bombs and torpedos? (Possibly hobbled by terrible speed, though; speed seems to be arbitrarily excluded from levelling.)
For purposes of the Abyssal War, the levelling effect appears to be normalized to 1945 for shipgirls and Abyssals, and about 2015 for everything else. Sailgirls are still deeply, deeply obsolete in a naval battle.

That said, even if the levelling effect did work that way... the only thing that's keeping up with Jersey is a clipper ship. :D

[Cue Kongou trying desperately to keep up with the clippergirls as they race back to Britain with all the available tea]
 
I'm not a horribly big paperback fan...

But not having to spend 100+dollars...

But I like hardcover more...

:V

Joking aside, it would be nice to be able to get a rereleased copy. I'm not even really a cruiser guy myself (that's @Aires Drake ) but still.
Heheh. Well, just note, I paid about $150 for my pristine copy of US Cruisers in hardback, while what I've seen of the trade paperback rereleases has been going for about $40 brand new, so it's certainly a more efficient budget option. (I wasn't a big cruiser guy before I got it--I was mainly getting it because I was frustrated that US battlecruiser development wasn't covered in US Battleships, where I figured all capital ship stuff would be. Of course, after getting it, I started seeing the engineering challenge of designing a cruiser as more interesting...)

Fair point. The dimensions of the Mark 14 are still an issue though.

The other problem IMO with using a glide bomb kit for an unguided torpedo is that the further away you are, the lower your probability of hit, seeing as how the weapon is unguided. This isn't so much of an issue for the Mark 50 and Mark 54 which has their own seekers which work against normal human subs, but it would be an issue for any airdropped torpedo, assuming Abyssals being bullshit affects the onboard seeker of the Mark 46/50/54 or a hypothetical airdrop modified Mark 48 ADCAP. If guidance is unavailable, that means getting in close within a warship's AA envelope. Not something I'd feel comfortable doing in a P-3. >_<
Hence why my original thought was to use BUFFs and Bones to deploy large spreads of glide-ADCAPs in Bearing-Only Launch mode from outside the AA envelope--if they do manage to guide, great; if they don't, then they'll at least still function as straight-runners and I'm launching a spread from long range. (While range data on US torpedoes is classified, it's known that the ADCAP's guidance wire has a ten-mile spool in the torpedo tube, and another ten-mile spool on the torpedo itself--so unless the levelling can nerf range down to that of the Long Lance, it can do at least twenty miles after hitting the water.) Even if they end up straight-running and you have to launch from the fringes of range to avoid the AA cover, they'd still make an effective area denial weapon to "herd" the enemy into a kill zone or away from a high-value target--which is half of what torpedoes were for in any event.

Using BUFFs against ships is not entirely unprecedented, BTW; in the early 80s, Boeing modified part of the B-52G fleet to be able to launch Harpoons, and when the B-52Gs were retired, the Air Force pulled all the equipment for that off of them and installed it in the B-52H fleet, so as not to lose that capability.

For purposes of the Abyssal War, the levelling effect appears to be normalized to 1945 for shipgirls and Abyssals, and about 2015 for everything else. Sailgirls are still deeply, deeply obsolete in a naval battle.
@rm928 did point out, in his Saluda story, the one role that sailgirls would not be obsolete in. With their lack of a (running) motor, they're nearly dead silent at almost all speeds, making them both hard for submarines to detect on passive sonar, and excellent sonar platforms in their own right. I suspect that any sailgirls who did come back would likely be outfitted with the best sonar packages we could figure out how to mate to them, then sent out with walkie-talkies to high-traffic areas to hunt subs and guide destroyers, DEs, cutters, and hovercats in onto their targets as ASW hunter-killer teams. (Akin to the SURTASS ships the US Navy operates to supplement SOSUS in tracking submarines, which are slow, quiet, essentially unarmed catamarans that trail towed arrays in areas where hostile submarines would pose a threat to the US.)
 
Hence why my original thought was to use BUFFs and Bones to deploy large spreads of glide-ADCAPs in Bearing-Only Launch mode from outside the AA envelope--if they do manage to guide, great; if they don't, then they'll at least still function as straight-runners and I'm launching a spread from long range. (While range data on US torpedoes is classified, it's known that the ADCAP's guidance wire has a ten-mile spool in the torpedo tube, and another ten-mile spool on the torpedo itself--so unless the levelling can nerf range down to that of the Long Lance, it can do at least twenty miles after hitting the water.) Even if they end up straight-running and you have to launch from the fringes of range to avoid the AA cover, they'd still make an effective area denial weapon to "herd" the enemy into a kill zone or away from a high-value target--which is half of what torpedoes were for in any event.
Gotcha. Yeah, that does make a lot more sense. The biggest challenge will be figuring how to make the ADCAPs not break themselves once they hit the water, but once that's solved...

Using BUFFs against ships is not entirely unprecedented, BTW; in the early 80s, Boeing modified part of the B-52G fleet to be able to launch Harpoons, and when the B-52Gs were retired, the Air Force pulled all the equipment for that off of them and installed it in the B-52H fleet, so as not to lose that capability.

Oh yeah, I remember reading about this in 2000 (from a book published in 1992 :V) and I've mentioned it before I think in the GG and Eternity threads. It's just too bad the Abyssals don't have nice ports and bases to operate from, because a great way to lock them up - or at least give them headaches - would be to use BUFFs to seed their ports with Quickstrike and CAPTOR mines (to the peanut gallery, Quickstrike mines are based off GP bombs and come in 500 lb, 1000 lb and 2000 lb flavors; meanwhile CAPTOR is basically a capsule with a Mark 46 torpedo in it and an anchor. It settles to the bottom of the sea floor, waiting until a ship or sub comes along, at which point the torp shoots straight up).

Yeah, assuming you could jury rig air-dropped ADCAPs to work, and if Abyssal bullshit didn't fuck the JDAM kits for Quickstrike mines, BUFFs and Bones operating as land-based antiship bombers would be nasty. Alas, we have no Harpoon BUFFs in Texas, only Bones.
 
Using BUFFs against ships is not entirely unprecedented, BTW; in the early 80s, Boeing modified part of the B-52G fleet to be able to launch Harpoons, and when the B-52Gs were retired, the Air Force pulled all the equipment for that off of them and installed it in the B-52H fleet, so as not to lose that capability.

Even I forgot about that and I am a Tom Clancy fan who has read The Hunt for Red October and it even says that. That is probably at least six or seven Harpoon Anti-Ship Missiles. The problem is that they explode on contact, so they will do diddy crap against that Lexington but if they can connect it will screw up those Atlantas pretty badly. However, the flipside is that the United States will likely really give the Long-Range-Anti-Ship-Missile (LRASM) Program a real kick in the funding department to get mainline production going, in 2014 in our timeline limited production started as a stopgap, so possibly thanks to the Abyssal War, it will be greenlight just to give American Warships more punching power. I am pretty sure not even a Battleship will like having 1,000 pounds of explosive detonate against it, it could probably do major internal damage to Light Cruisers that even have a belt, it's warhead is something called a Blast Fragmentation Penetrator whatever that means.

Plus, I am certain the Navy is scrambling to figure out a way to produce Mark 48s that are Straight-Running fish that can be fired from surface ships out of a torpedo tube. That will really give American Cruisers and Destroyers some heavy punching power.
 
Even I forgot about that and I am a Tom Clancy fan who has read The Hunt for Red October and it even says that. That is probably at least six or seven Harpoon Anti-Ship Missiles. The problem is that they explode on contact, so they will do diddy crap against that Lexington but if they can connect it will screw up those Atlantas pretty badly. However, the flipside is that the United States will likely really give the Long-Range-Anti-Ship-Missile (LRASM) Program a real kick in the funding department to get mainline production going, in 2014 in our timeline limited production started as a stopgap, so possibly thanks to the Abyssal War, it will be greenlight just to give American Warships more punching power. I am pretty sure not even a Battleship will like having 1,000 pounds of explosive detonate against it, it could probably do major internal damage to Light Cruisers that even have a belt, it's warhead is something called a Blast Fragmentation Penetrator whatever that means.

Plus, I am certain the Navy is scrambling to figure out a way to produce Mark 48s that are Straight-Running fish that can be fired from surface ships out of a torpedo tube. That will really give American Cruisers and Destroyers some heavy punching power.
:eyebrow:UUUUUH Thor? That was thirty years ago. And even more fictitious than this. And was Ship-to-Ship, not Ship-to-Fleet-wrecking Ocean Demons
 
Fleet-wrecking Ocean Demons. Besides, non-story wise, would you rather read about Jersey and Co. royally fucking their shit up, or missile strikes that paow himself would be proud of?
 
...people you do realise that ADCAP is usually wire guided by the launching sub. Right? And that if you fire it unguided it'll go in a striaght line, right?
 
Whoa, I did not know that. I just now realized that without guidance it'll go in a straight line. What a revelation. Maybe I should've read about it earlier or something. Maybe hit up Wikipedia or ask Google how wire-guided munitions work without guidance.

Fleet-wrecking Ocean Demons. Besides, non-story wise, would you rather read about Jersey and Co. royally fucking their shit up, or missile strikes that paow himself would be proud of?

With some of the people here I'm honestly conflicted if I should answer yes or not.

B-52Hs have the ability to carry Harpoons and that's the model currently in service.

Yes, and? As kct has stated helpfully above, what good would Harpoons do if the Abyssals can destroy the delivery platform with ease?

Again, what are you trying to get at and why are you still trying to shoehorn the US Military into a fic that is about shipgirls and is primarily about their exploits, not the modern day military doing their part to defend humanity?
 
Hey, I remember what TheJMPer said about not going overboard with the "military FUCK YEAH!" :D

Sailgirls with sonar sounds like a great idea; the big problem is, as always, exactly how do you go about 'refitting' a shipgirl? They seem to be 'born' as built, and naturally 'grow' capabilities more in line with their final refits. And girls that summon themselves seem to come out Kai Ni'ed (that is, in their final form, e.g. Texas having 20mm Oerlikons).

But if you want a shipgirl to exhibit a capability she never had as a steel (or wooden) hull, exactly how do you make that happen? We can give the girls cell phones, but how do we give them a towed sonar array?
 
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But if you want a shipgirl to exhibit a capability she never had as a steel (or wooden) hull, exactly how do you make that happen? We can give the girls cell phones, but how do we give them a towed sonar array?

Backpack?

Now, one last time, can we bring this discussion into the Kantai Collection Fanfiction Discussion and Ideas thread, and leave discussions here only for Belated Battleships?
 
Heh.
Sail girls.
....Actually, that might be a thing that could happen here. The French have two ships that they built in the 1930's. They're small sail boats that had diesel engines installed for training purposes. They escaped France, alone, evaded the Nazis, and made it to Britain, becoming part of the Free French Naval Forces. They're still used today, actually.
Unless I'm missing something, they could come back as girls in this fic, no?
 
Heh.
Sail girls.
....Actually, that might be a thing that could happen here. The French have two ships that they built in the 1930's. They're small sail boats that had diesel engines installed for training purposes. They escaped France, alone, evaded the Nazis, and made it to Britain, becoming part of the Free French Naval Forces. They're still used today, actually.
Unless I'm missing something, they could come back as girls in this fic, no?
Paging @theJMPer for a canon check.
 
Whoa, I did not know that. I just now realized that without guidance it'll go in a straight line. What a revelation. Maybe I should've read about it earlier or something. Maybe hit up Wikipedia or ask Google how wire-guided munitions work without guidance.
The short version is that without the guidance wire, they work in one of three basic modes. The first mode (used if the wire breaks for any reason after launch) is that it starts a search pattern corresponding to the operational mode (anti-ship/anti-submarine) it was set in before launch; in ASW mode, it does ensure that it's gone a sufficient distance from the launch platform before starting the pattern, to ensure it doesn't lock on to the launching sub. After acquiring a target, it homes on it automatically. The second mode (for "shoot and scoot" attacks) has it go a preset distance on a preset bearing, then start its search pattern as above. The third mode, known as Bearing Only Launch, literally operates as a straight-runner until and unless it acquires a target, in which case, it homes on that target. Due to the nature of air launch, you only have BOL and immediate-search-pattern options for air-launched torpedoes, and BOL would probably be more useful against surface ships. (Wire guidance doesn't work when the wire has to break the surface; every time we've tried, it's broken the wire every single time.)

As a side note, wire-guided torpedoes generally do not work the same way as wire-guided anti-tank missiles do. The wire-guided missiles are literally flown into the target by the operator (my stepbrother loved the old Dragon ATGM because he could actually fly it around hills and trees to attack targets); wire-guided torpedoes, on the other hand, have more limited guidance, in that they can be directed to go to a given position, change depth, change speed, and start various search patterns. The only exception I know of was the old Mark 45 ASTOR, which, having a nuclear warhead, was required to have positive control of the weapon all the way to detonation; it lacked any independent guidance section and was "flown" onto the target by the operator--who also had to manually trigger the warhead. The guidance wire on most torpedoes is more to update their plotted go-active point, and to allow the submarine firing them to use the torpedo's seeker head as an off-board sensor during its running time.

I will reintegrate from my previous post that the civil air patrol is even more important now than in the 1940's.
Absolutely. CAP is gonna be wearing out a bucketload of Lycomings and Continentals during this war.

But if you want a shipgirl to exhibit a capability she never had as a steel (or wooden) hull, exactly how do you make that happen? We can give the girls cell phones, but how do we give them a towed sonar array?
My best guess? We give her a fishfinder sonar or a waterproof microphone with a looooooong cord. :lol Seriously, I'm pretty sure someone could come up with a way to do it--even if it ends up being a microphone on a cord attached to a pair of headphones...

Paging @theJMPer for a canon check.
Again, @rm928 has brought at least a sailgirl into canon with Saluda.
 
Heh.
Sail girls.
....Actually, that might be a thing that could happen here. The French have two ships that they built in the 1930's. They're small sail boats that had diesel engines installed for training purposes. They escaped France, alone, evaded the Nazis, and made it to Britain, becoming part of the Free French Naval Forces. They're still used today, actually.
Unless I'm missing something, they could come back as girls in this fic, no?
Paging @theJMPer for a canon check.
Again, @rm928 has brought at least a sailgirl into canon with Saluda.
You guys are forgetting Victory. Sail girls are already fic-canon.
 
Poor Victory... At least she lives on as a figment of Jersey's crew of spiritual composition!

Even if she is forced by Lady J to be running around in sacndalous garb and watch as her host gets some properly educated loving from the good professor.

She lives on!
 
Iron is crossposting because he wants to share pretty pictures and good cheer.

So... recall back when Frisco and Lou dressed up in dirndls (is that even the right plural form?) to help Prinz feel more welcome?

I feel these are relevant and also feel silly I forgot about them. `:p
 
Now, one last time, can we bring this discussion into the Kantai Collection Fanfiction Discussion and Ideas thread, and leave discussions here only for Belated Battleships?

My original question about the Mk 60 stands: can the Bones [BelBat canon] air drop CAPTORs from USN ready magazines to pen up Atomic Battlecruiser Princess (assume they level out as mercury fulminate mines and/or TBFs with Mk 13s), until Big T and associates can deal with them?

Wikipedia seems to show its possible:
Mark 60 CAPTOR - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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The problem is that they weigh a ton, the bombers can only carry so many, and they'll occupy a fixed area which the ships can simply sail around. Laying a 'ring' of mines around a task force is not realistically possible.

Mines are great for deterring ships in general from sailing through an area, but they're so all-or-nothing that if the goal is to put down a specific ship right now, laying mines in front of it is a bad idea.
 
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