And what surface ships the Abyssals have left are being pounded to death by battleships. Worst case scenario, Nagato can literally shield Heerman with her own hull.
Maybe, but Abyssals don't seem to care overmuch about their own survival and the Princess just screamed out for them to kill the destroyers. Even if they don't target Heerman any more, the DDs present are probably about to have a very bad day.
 
USS New Orleans and USS Minneapolis both had their bows blown off by torpedoes in the Battle of Tassafaronga, Minneapolis ahead of Turret 1, New Orleans between 1 and 2. Both survived to get temporary bows, then full repairs. As long as Heerman can maintain enough buoyancy to support her remaining wreckage (as long as her bulkheads don't leak too much) she can float, but she's a sitting target.
Thing is those were Heavy Cruisers...

Which is a lot thought than destroyers.
 
The reason why I said a standard repair ship would not work because it would not be safe. Taking Heerman under tow will be stupid. It be far to dangerous for both her and who ever towing her. She can't move on her own cause cause her props are gone and even if they were not the shafts will be fucked to hell and back.

A mobile dock is literally the safest thing for her.

Here's some pictures of the Honolulu to show the difference in damage.

Her repair.


The Heerman is far worst then that. How?

She missing far more so the balance is fucked, as is her propellers and shafts as I said. You need a full dry dock to fix that. No repair ship can fix it, cause they were not design too. They are medics, they patch you up enough to make sure you can make it home to be fixed.

Plus cause of hypodermics and fucking wave action, remember they are near if not in the Bering sea, a whole lot of stress would be put on the area.
 
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Jersey: The fuck you say?
Derp. To be fair, still getting the class-name right isn't the worst mix-up to make.

The reason why I said a standard repair ship would not work because it would not be safe. Taking Heerman under tow will be stupid. It be far to dangerous for both her and who ever towing her. She can't move on her own cause cause her props are gone and even if they were not the shafts will be fucked to hell and back.

A mobile dock is literally the safest thing for her.

Here's some pictures of the Honolulu to show the difference in damage.

Her repair.


The Heerman is far worst then that. How?

She missing far more so the balance is fucked, as is her propellers and shafts as I said. You need a full dry dock to fix that. No repair ship can fix it, cause they were not design too. They are medics, they patch you up enough to make sure you can make it home to be fixed.

Plus cause of hypodermics and fucking wave action, remember they are near if not in the Bering sea, a whole lot of stress would be put on the area.
Well yeah, repairs to put her back into action in the field would be nonsensical. But for patching her up just enough to stay alive is not the same thing.
 
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I'm shocked that bishop didn't use cruise missiles, something this big and slow would be a perfect target for cruise missiles or air launched mines, but still. The argument for a small low yield tactical weapon is rising .Just enough to give the dear princess her spot of sunshine, but not enough to kill our girls.
 
Do we know what hit her? It didn't say.

Heerman has a small chance of making it out of this. Other ships have had parts blown off and survive, though they were all much more robust than a DD. However, if Hoppo has the Abyssals whipped up into a destroyer murdering frenzy, they might try to confirm that kill on Heerman. God forbid they have any torpedo assets around, Heerman would have no chance to avoid them.
 
A mobile dock is literally the safest thing for her.
The problem is a mobile dock isn't there and waiting in the middle of the Bering for one is asking to get it and Heerman torpedoed by a submarine.

Evacuating her fairies and scuttling her is out.
Leaving her out there is out.

Which leaves you the only real remaining option of towing her at least untill you can either get to an Alaskan port, meet up with a lift ship or dedicated tugs. Her bow is at least intact and since the damage is at the back towing will probably even help a little with controlling the flooding though venturi bailing.

Though that is all ignoring ship girl magic so I find it far more likely Nagamom and Jersmom argue about who gets to cary the cute injured destroyer home while She Musashi complains that nobody is worried about her after all the torpedoes she took.
 
"Alright boys," Colonel Frank "Fronk" Bishop eased the eight throttles of his lumbering B-52 all the way to their stops, letting the roar of turbojet engines mix with the mildly alarming rattle of the improvised bombardier's window. "We Ace Combat now."
A Navy guy piloting a SAC plane aside, now I know where you're getting the tempo/inspiration for this chapter... and I have found sections wanting. As the descendant of a SAC B-52 commander, there's stuff wrong here.
A chorus of nervous laughter rippled though the bomber's fuselage, the sound almost lost in the multitude of disheartening mechanical noises the big old bomber was making. Bishop did his best to push any concerned about the structural reliability of the big ugly fat/flying fuck to the back corner of his brain.
1. The B-52 does that normally. It's not mechanically unreliable, that's just the B-52 being different than a normal airplane. The G version's made for fast, low-level penetration missions. The only differences H variant has, which I'm assuming is the one you're using here, is new engines and the rear quad .50's switched out for an M61 Vulcan, which itself was removed in the mid 1990's.
2. It's BUFF, not BUF.
3. You've gotta be tough to fly the heavies. Here's a short, accurate diary of a routine flight in a B-52 that fairly well explains the... uniqueness, of the bomber.
He'd pushed her faster than this at Edwards, and in thicker air. If the nose hadn't blown off then, it wouldn't now. Besides, he was driving a Boeing-built strategic bomber. It was just one step below flying an actual bunker.
And it handles like one, too.
five-thousand pound GPS-guided bunker-busters
For all its size and power, the modified Stratofortress only carried twelve of the bunker-buster weapons.
Uh... I take issue with the phrasing here. The way it's written up here, you're implying the B-52 can only take 60k tons worth of munitions, max. That is incorrect. The approximate limit is 70k tons. If there's some other reason they're carrying less than a max bombload, that needs to be specified, and each carries its own unique implications. Can't get a re-fueling tanker on-station? That's a whole new box of issues to mull over. Lack of GBU-28 bombs? Defense industry's not looking too good.

You see what I mean?
Nobody'd ever tried GPS-guided ordy against abyssals before
But the GBU-28 isn't just GPS Guided. That was added later, it's primarily a laser-guided munition. And look, the B-52 has not one, but two such pods with those systems, among other capabilities. Or has laser-guidance been proven a failure against Abyssal Bullshit too?
"Just one," came the scowled response. "Just one fucking- SHIT! BREAK BREAK BR-" The radio died with a howl as something came streaking out of the sun. Something pouring 20mm cannon rounds into the bomber's slender fuselage.

Explosions and sparks raced along the bomber, smashing its cockpit in a spray of shattered glass and twisted metal. A second fighter raced after the first, stitching the bomber's wing root with its guns and tearing at the crucial load-bearing spars.
Should have taken the time to re-install that rear turret. Also, the B-25 isn't 'slender'. It's called the BUFF for a reason, it's a behemoth of an aircraft. Secondly, the bolded sentence is more nonsense. If the Hurricane is hitting the area where the wing meets the Fuselage, that's the wing root. If it's hitting the load-bearing spar, those go the entire length of the wing. Look, here's a cutaway of a B-52. Yes it's in Russian, but you're not looking at the words, you're looking at the wings.
"And I'm a fucking battleship," growled back Jersey, "We're fucking expendable, you aren't."
The rest of the thread has called Jersey out on her BS. Good.
"No." came the battleship's reply. Her voice was deadly serious, and so commanding Bishop swore he heard it over the sound of his plane's engines. "We lost enough zoomies today, we won't loose more.
1. That makes no sense. Jersey was clearly in a conversation with Bishop just now. Are you trying to say it was 'so commanding' that Bishop thought he could hear it without the radio?
The Northern Princess stalked along her deck with her face buried in the machined steel of her choker. Her imps scrambled over her deck like so many miniature ants, fire hoses and shovels trailing in their wake as they frantically repaired what little damage she'd taken.
So that's her ground crew: Imps.
If she had any planes left. The princess balled her tiny hands into fists, the padding of her thick mittens scrunching up as she shook with unrestrained rage. Her planes, her beautiful precious planes lay shattered on the ocean
That's what happens when you get tunnel vision, dearie.
The princess raised one shaking mitten, her bloody eyes locked on the hateful destroyers. "Kill them!" she shrieked. "KILL THEM!"
Still the cutest thing ever.
and even the battleships looked moved as they formed up to punish the abyssals for their actions.
'they', not 'the.
The question bouncing through my mind at the moment is: how enraged is Nagato now?
Mad enough to put Hopo in time-out.

What heresy is this, making Warhound not just Air Force, but also a B-52 pilot?
 
He's a Colonel, so I'm pretty sure he is AC: AH Bishop (though he's an F-22/FB-22/F-35 driver). Also, all of this Abyssal bullshit in a perverse way is a way to bring back the more horrorfing weapons since your napalms, your massive iron bombs, (the holy light), have guidance factors of "parachutes and eyeballs" or kill ratios greater than one. I could see either Vietnam style high flying heavy stragetic bombing, or low speed passes with non guideded missiles a viable tactic to try and damage it enough for the BBs to take out the command deck though.
 
I could see either Vietnam style high flying heavy stragetic bombing
Here's the thing: High-level bombing is incredibly inaccurate. If the Eighth Air Force wanted to bomb a factory, they bombed the entire city. Even the highly advanced Norden bombsight couldn't make that kind of bombing more accurate than 'fly over city, drop bombs, hope target building gets leveled'. How many ships in the pacific were sunk by B-17s doing that kind of flying? Zero. The most damaging bombing raids of WWII were either A. taken with hundreds of strategic bombers. B. At low-level for maximum accuracy. Or C, both. Altitude made those bombers relatively safe from fighters, but flak could still take them out of the sky, and their effectiveness plummeted for the reasons described above.

low speed passes with non guideded missiles
1. A 'non-guided missile' is called a rocket. 2. No. Low speed is only done on an air-dropped torpedo run, because of how that whole system works. There is no reason to take an attack run 'slow'. You boom and zoom, before you get taken out by enemy fighters/flak. Here, read this article. It explains the issues with your ideas in a WWII environment.
 
Hoppo Has more AA then an Iowa 5 inch guns 40mm Bofors and 20mm Oerlikons Spread along the edges of a deck over 4000 feet long.
Anything coming in low will run into a wall of flak literally.
The 5 inch guns mean anything under a Battleship will get chewed to pieces in short order.
 
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1. The B-52 does that normally. It's not mechanically unreliable, that's just the B-52 being different than a normal airplane. The G version's made for fast, low-level penetration missions. The only differences H variant has, which I'm assuming is the one you're using here, is new engines and the rear quad .50's switched out for an M61 Vulcan, which itself was removed in the mid 1990's.
It's not the usual noises that are giving him pause. It's the noises the very rushed glassnose modifications are making. The modifications that already had a catastrophic failure once on this mission. (There were supposed to be three BUFFs flying the mission, but one had its nose blow and and was forced to land in Canada.)
Uh... I take issue with the phrasing here. The way it's written up here, you're implying the B-52 can only take 60k tons worth of munitions, max. That is incorrect. The approximate limit is 70k tons. If there's some other reason they're carrying less than a max bombload, that needs to be specified, and each carries its own unique implications. Can't get a re-fueling tanker on-station? That's a whole new box of issues to mull over. Lack of GBU-28 bombs? Defense industry's not looking too good.
I looked up a B-52's bomb load, most of them didn't max out its weight capability. (They only carry 18 Mk82s, not 35). And it's not 70k tons. It's 70,000 pounds, or 35 tons. 70k tons is more than Jersey weighs.
But the GBU-28 isn't just GPS Guided. That was added later, it's primarily a laser-guided munition. And look, the B-52 has not one, but two such pods with those systems, among other capabilities. Or has laser-guidance been proven a failure against Abyssal Bullshit too?
I know, and yes.
Should have taken the time to re-install that rear turret. Also, the B-25 isn't 'slender'. It's called the BUFF for a reason, it's a behemoth of an aircraft. Secondly, the bolded sentence is more nonsense. If the Hurricane is hitting the area where the wing meets the Fuselage, that's the wing root. If it's hitting the load-bearing spar, those go the entire length of the wing. Look, here's a cutaway of a B-52. Yes it's in Russian, but you're not looking at the words, you're looking at the wings.
I know the B-52's fuselage is objectively wide, but it's still sleeker than most big planes. Compared to a KC-135, a C-17, or just about any other big USAF plane I can think of, the BUFF looks like a twig with wings. I used to live under the landing path of an air force base. I could always tell when B-52s were flying in because of how twiggy they looked.

And looking at that cutaway, I don't see how what I said fails to make sense. The spar runs nearly the full length of the wing, so a burst of canon fire hitting the root (or within a foot or so of the root) could easily shred the spar.
 
It's not the usual noises that are giving him pause. It's the noises the very rushed glassnose modifications are making. The modifications that already had a catastrophic failure once on this mission. (There were supposed to be three BUFFs flying the mission, but one had its nose blow and and was forced to land in Canada.)

I looked up a B-52's bomb load, most of them didn't max out its weight capability. (They only carry 18 Mk82s, not 35). And it's not 70k tons. It's 70,000 pounds, or 35 tons. 70k tons is more than Jersey weighs.

I know, and yes.

I know the B-52's fuselage is objectively wide, but it's still sleeker than most big planes. Compared to a KC-135, a C-17, or just about any other big USAF plane I can think of, the BUFF looks like a twig with wings. I used to live under the landing path of an air force base. I could always tell when B-52s were flying in because of how twiggy they looked.

And looking at that cutaway, I don't see how what I said fails to make sense. The spar runs nearly the full length of the wing, so a burst of canon fire hitting the root (or within a foot or so of the root) could easily shred the spar.
That still doesn't really add up. For starters, the B-52s are possibly flying at an altitude well beyond what any prop planes could hope to reach, let alone a Zero.

Second, B-52s should still be going faster than Zeros can. Even if that weren't the case, you're still dealing with a startlingly small engagement window for a knife-fighting-range weapon like machine guns.
That's why you'd need an armament of four 30mm cannons or rockets/missiles to have an effective anti-heavy-bomber armament on a fighter. And no accurate or effective air-to-air rockets existed in WW2. As for the four 30mm cannons, well, that fighter only had one prototype made, which only made one flight, and I don't think it was even ever armed.

And the whole "peer" bullshit still wouldn't make it work, either. B-52s are damn good heavy bombers, but even B-29s back in the day were completely immune to Zeros (and any Japanese fighters...or Allied fighters, sans perhaps jets) when not flying in low altitude deliberately. And Zeros struggled to down B-29s, since they took so much punishment to shoot down even one.

A pair of 20mm cannons is absolutely not enough to shoot down a B-52 (or a B-29...or even a B-17) in a few seconds, or even close.

Even accounting for the magic bullshit, there is simply no conceivable way those B-52s should have ever been in danger, let alone shot down.
 
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Hoppo Has more AA then an Iowa 5 inch guns 40mm Bofors and 20mm Oerlikons Spread along the edges of a deck over 4000 feet long.
Anything coming in low will run into a wall of flak literally.
The 5 inch guns mean anything under a Battleship will get chewed to pieces in short order.
Er, not exactly? Heavy cruisers are designed to be more or less immune to 5-in gunfire. Their superstructures are still vulnerable, but their hulls are not.

As for the Hoppo's AA--where are you sourcing this from?
 
As for the Hoppo's AA--where are you sourcing this from?
From the wiki article:
The final design of Habbakuk II gave the bergship (as it was called) a displacement of 2.2 million tons. Steam turbogenerators were to supply 33,000 hp (25,000 kW) for 26 electric motors mounted in separate external nacelles (normal, internal ship engines would have generated too much heat for an ice craft). Its armament would have included 40 dual-barrelled 4.5" DP (dual-purpose) turrets and numerous light anti-aircraft guns, and it would have housed an airstrip and up to 150 twin-engined bombers or fighters.[2
 
From the wiki article:
Er, that's still not quite adequate. "Light antiaircraft guns" does not specify whether we're talking about 50 cals, 20mm's, 40mm Bofors, 1.1 inchers, or something else. It also doesn't specify how many.

Similarly, it says 4.5 inch guns. Which is throws it into further doubt.

Don't get me wrong, it's still nothing to underestimate, but it doesn't quite match up with what you're saying.
 
Er, that's still not quite adequate. "Light antiaircraft guns" does not specify whether we're talking about 50 cals, 20mm's, 40mm Bofors, 1.1 inchers, or something else. It also doesn't specify how many.

Similarly, it says 4.5 inch guns. Which is throws it into further doubt.

Don't get me wrong, it's still nothing to underestimate, but it doesn't quite match up with what you're saying.
Well, that was my first post chiming in on the issue. There's not a lot of easily available reference materials for Habbakuk, so some (understandable) assumptions on AA guns are likely being made.
 
Er, that's still not quite adequate. "Light antiaircraft guns" does not specify whether we're talking about 50 cals, 20mm's, 40mm Bofors, 1.1 inchers, or something else. It also doesn't specify how many.

Similarly, it says 4.5 inch guns. Which is throws it into further doubt.

Don't get me wrong, it's still nothing to underestimate, but it doesn't quite match up with what you're saying.
Well, that was my first post chiming in on the issue. There's not a lot of easily available reference materials for Habbakuk, so some (understandable) assumptions on AA guns are likely being made.
Anyways some pics of Habakkuk.

That's an Iowa and a Nimitz...

Cut section

War book picture
 
Plunging and sheer weight of fire with Armor piercing shells Hoppo's fire would be plunging fire do to the sheer height of her deck.
Deck armor is usually a lot thinner than Belt and I agree that a Heavy cruisers Belt would shrug it off how About her Deck.
The Battle group is BB's Destroyers and AA Destroyers with Momboat light cruiser for flavor.
EDit: Hell that war book picture is Half of the Hoppo we ware currently fighting so double all the guns.
 
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4.5-inch guns were, and remain to this day, quite common in Royal Navy service. And the Habbakuk was a BRITISH project, not an American one--so they'd probably have used the British 4.5" gun instead of the US 5"/38.
 
I looked up a B-52's bomb load, most of them didn't max out its weight capability. (They only carry 18 Mk82s, not 35). And it's not 70k tons. It's 70,000 pounds, or 35 tons. 70k tons is more than Jersey weighs.
That's a derp on my part.
*sigh* Figures.
And looking at that cutaway, I don't see how what I said fails to make sense. The spar runs nearly the full length of the wing, so a burst of canon fire hitting the root (or within a foot or so of the root) could easily shred the spar.
The entire thing? Root to tip? Is only that part of the spar being torn up, or the entire piece? It's the conflicting mental image of shooting at the root vs. all along the wing that's bugging me on that part.
And no accurate or effective air-to-air rockets existed in WW2.
Incorrect!
 
The entire thing? Root to tip? Is only that part of the spar being torn up, or the entire piece? It's the conflicting mental image of shooting at the root vs. all along the wing that's bugging me on that part.
Just the root part. The wing itself is more or less intact, it's just no longer really connected to the plane, which is why it folds up instead of just disintegrating.
 
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