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Attempting to Fulfil The Plan: ISOT Edition

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A little confused by the desire to snub Egypt? They'll find someone to work with them on the chemical project, we might as well secure the bag. Plus in the medium-term a positive relationship with Egypt could result in some very profitable trade arrangements.
 
I would fervently advise for voting for the plan that has the trade deal with Egypt. The Liberated Territories hold 2/3rds of our current population and right now they're one bad Harvest roll away from a full-scale famine instead of "just" the partial one. And I don't think our stockpiles and modernizations of even our home territory are large enough to make up for too low of a Harvest roll.

Not to mention, on Discord it's been pointed out that the advantages of being able to trade with Egypt means we can keep taking children away from working on the farms and into schools more easily, when the penalty for accidentally drawing away too much child labor from the farms means we just have to export more to buy food from Egypt instead of accidentallying ourselves into a famine because there's not enough farmhands.
 
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HeWhoAdds said:
A little confused by the desire to snub Egypt? They'll find someone to work with them on the chemical project, we might as well secure the bag. Plus in the medium-term a positive relationship with Egypt could result in some very profitable trade arrangements.
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Listen I'm against monarchies that pretend to be divine.

This guy probably doesn't even have a pyramid bigger than the ones at Giza despite all our advances we've handed him.
 
[X] Plan Even More Schools (and Guns)

We absolutely need secondary education. Even talking a optimistic thirty years for our university educated professionals leaving the workforce. We have sixteen years to push through masses of education. Subtract four for secondary education, subtract seven if we can get someone with an equivalent education to normal for a grad student. That leaves just five years accumulation to replace all of the near irreplaceable personnel we have.
 
Vehrec said:
Listen I'm against monarchies that pretend to be divine.

This guy probably doesn't even have a pyramid bigger than the ones at Giza despite all our advances we've handed him.
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If you want to harm Egypt the biggest possible way, you should be voting for trade with Egypt.

That way we can mass-produce enough manufactured goods that we can drive all of the Egyptian artisans out of business, and given that the Hyksos are in charge, the first person they'll blame is the Pharaoh. And that's how you get big urban riots.
 
It's been emphasized before that while Uptimers as a whole have most of the future knowledge base between them, specialized knowledge is a lot more rare and a lot harder to reconstruct from documents/hunches/first principles.

It's quite possible that Egypt doesn't have another avenue for this, or that their other avenues are going to require a lengthy knowledge reconstruction effort.
 
[X] Plan Even More Schools (and Guns)

Food imports are a literal lifesaver, like we're talking instant resolution to a famine here. Where people literally starve to death, not just miss a meal every now and then. Hard to conceptualize for people on the internet in 2023 but like.... that's a BIG DEAL. And long term Egypt would be a solid sink for all the machinery and steel we want to (over)produce in exchange for raw resources, the Nile is a very nice totally-not-colonial prize to have if we can get them hooked on our machines and knowledge.

Finally, somebody is going to get paid to help Pharaoh build his gunpowder mills. Might as well be us getting the bag rather than, like, Rhodes or the Air Force.
 
[X] Plan Even More Schools (and Guns)

Don't really see any reason not to accept the Egypt trade deal. Extra resources, stops our liberated population from starving, and the biggest effect in Egypt will be "massively improve the quality of life of the average peasant under Egyptian rule".
 
MSH said:
It's quite possible that Egypt doesn't have another avenue for this, or that their other avenues are going to require a lengthy knowledge reconstruction effort.
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We're a distinctly second rate intellectual power compared to a lot of the Air Force and Anatolian states (before the war anyways...), and Rhodes has probably kidnapped enough nerds to figure it out. I think they came to us first because we're far away and not a threat to them, but will work their way east around the Med if we say no until they find somebody who says yes.
 
Vote called for [X] Plan Even More Schools (and Guns)

Derveni-Zapantis Canal 2d 28+3+648=679/900
Kópos Planned City 1d 32+79=111/100 complete 11 overflow to Peloponnese City Modernizations (Stage 1) quality dice 91
Peloponnese City Modernization (Stage 1) 2d 72+42+11=125/150
Telegraph Network (Stage 2) 1d 60+30=90/150
Kópos Coal Mine (Stage 3) 3d 1+80+43+10=134/225 nat 1
Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4) 1d 76+31=107/450
Thermal Power Generation (Stage 1) 1d 32/50
Textile Industry (Stage 4) 1d 39+39=78/275
Mills (Stage 4) 1d 82+126=208/275
Consumer Goods Production Mechanization (Stage 1) 2d 83+95+14=192/100 complete stage 2 92/175
Glass Production (Stage 3) 2d 17+100+10+142=269/175 complete stage 4 94/250 nat 100
Pharmaceutical Production (Stage 3) 1d 57+5=62/175
Dams (Stage 3) 2d 87+1+143=231/250 nat 1
Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 1) 2d 81+35+23=139/125 complete stage 2 14/200
Secondary Schools (Stage 1) 4d 85+40+40+17=182/150 complete stage 2 32/200 quality dice 78
Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 4) 5d 99+37+48+53+49+127=413/350 complete stage 5 63/425
Liberated Territories Primary Schools (Stage 1) 3d 100+96+27=223/150 complete stage 2 73/200 nat 100 quality dice 92+15=107
Issuance of Farming Equipment 1d 7+10+209=226/225 complete
City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 1) 1d 22+188=210+15=225/225 omake complete
Recruit More Cadres 2d 82+81+27=190/100 complete
Mining Restarts 2d 25+96=121/100 complete
Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 1) 2d 62+30=92/75 complete quality dice 90 stage 2 17/125
Monitor Construction Campaign 1d 16/150
Recruit Downtimers to Ministry 2d 21+86=107
Advisors for Food 1d 74
Scheduled vote count started by garphield on Aug 16, 2023 at 11:00 PM, finished with 17 posts and 10 votes.
  • [X] Plan Even More Schools (and Guns)
    -[X] Derveni-Zapantis Canal, 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Kópos Planned City, 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Peloponnese City Modernization (Stage 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Telegraph Network (Stage 2), 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Kópos Coal Mine (Stage 3), 3 dice (30 Resources)
    -[X] Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4), 1 die (15 Resources)
    -[X] Thermal Power Generation (Stage 1), 1 die (20 Resources)
    -[X] Textile Industry (Stage 4), 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Mills (Stage 4), 1 die (5 Resources)
    -[X] Consumer Goods Production Mechanization (Stage 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Glass Production (Stage 3), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Pharmaceutical Production (Stage 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
    -[X] Dams (Stage 3), 2 dice (10 Resources)
    -[X] Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Secondary Schools (Stage 1), 4 dice (40 Resources)
    -[X] Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 4), 5 dice (25 Resources)
    -[X] Issuance of Farming Equipment, 1 die (5 Resources)
    -[X] City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 1), 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Recruit More Cadres, 2 dice (10 Resources)
    -[X] Mining Restarts, 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Liberated Territories Primary Schools (Stage 1), 3 dice (15 Resources)
    -[X] Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 1), 2 dice (50 Resources)
    -[X] Monitor Construction Campaign, 1 die (20 Resources)
    -[X] Recruit Downtimers To Ministry, 2 dice (10 Resources)
    -[X] Advisors for Food, 1 die
    [X] Plan More Schools And Snubbing Egypt
    -[X] Derveni-Zapantis Canal, 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Kópos Planned City, 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Peloponnese City Modernization (Stage 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Hydroelectric Power (Stage 1), 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Kópos Coal Mine (Stage 3), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4), 3 dice (45 Resources)
    -[X] Textile Industry (Stage 4), 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Mills (Stage 4), 1 die (5 Resources)
    -[X] Consumer Goods Production Mechanization (Stage 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Glass Production (Stage 3), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Pharmaceutical Production (Stage 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
    -[X] Dams (Stage 3), 2 dice (10 Resources)
    -[X] Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 1), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Peloponnese Primary Schools (Stage 4), 4 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 4), 5 dice (25 Resources)
    -[X] Issuance of Farming Equipment, 1 die (5 Resources)
    -[X] City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 1), 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Recruit More Cadres, 2 dice (10 Resources)
    -[X] Mining Restarts, 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Liberated Territories Primary Schools (Stage 1), 3 dice (15 Resources)
    -[X] Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 1), 2 die (50 Resources)
    -[X] Monitor Construction Campaign, 1 die (20 Resources)
    -[X] Naval Gun Production, 1 die (20 Resources)
    -[X] Recruit Downtimers To Ministry, 2 dice (10 Resources)
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garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Dice Total: 508
28 28 3 3 32 32 72 72 42 42 60 60 1 1 80 80 43 43 76 76 32 32 39 39
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Dice Total: 763
82 82 83 83 95 95 17 17 100 100 57 57 87 87 1 1 81 81 35 35 85 85 40 40
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Dice Total: 560
40 40 17 17 99 99 37 37 48 48 53 53 49 49 7 7 22 22 82 82 81 81 25 25
garphield threw 10 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Dice Total: 608
96 96 100 100 96 96 27 27 62 62 30 30 16 16 21 21 86 86 74 74
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 582
27 27 38 38 44 44 61 61 76 76 17 17 34 34 36 36 82 82 72 72 44 44 51 51
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 598
14 14 93 93 85 85 37 37 59 59 32 32 72 72 4 4 11 11 32 32 76 76 83 83
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 584
44 44 58 58 88 88 27 27 72 72 16 16 84 84 33 33 56 56 20 20 42 42 44 44
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 488
2 2 35 35 68 68 90 90 15 15 18 18 16 16 95 95 1 1 88 88 14 14 46 46
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 722
35 35 15 15 52 52 19 19 5 5 99 99 88 88 69 69 86 86 87 87 99 99 68 68
garphield threw 7 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 546
60 60 70 70 77 77 96 96 61 61 88 88 94 94
garphield threw 4 100-faced dice. Reason: nat 1/100 effects Total: 273
68 68 72 72 87 87 46 46
garphield threw 4 100-faced dice. Reason: quality dice Total: 351
91 91 78 78 92 92 90 90
garphield threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: harvest Total: 87
87 87
 
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Plus, helping Egypt develop will hasten the end of the feudal mode of production and inevitably bring about a bourgeoise revolution that will in turn be supplanted by communism. It's simple Marxist historical materialism, comrades. :V
 
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Infrastructure:
Derveni-Zapantis Canal, 2 dice: 648 + 28 + 3 = 679/900
Kópos Planned City, 1 die: 79 + 32 = 111/100
Peloponnese City Modernization (Stage 1), 2 dice: 72 + 42 = 114/150
Telegraph Network (Stage 2), 1 die: 30 + 60 = 90/150

Heavy Industry:
Kópos Coal Mine (Stage 3), 3 dice: 10 + 1 + 80 + 43 = 134/225
Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4), 1 die: 31 + 76 = 107/450
Thermal Power Generation (Stage 1), 1 die: 32 = 32/50

Light Industry:
Textile Industry (Stage 4), 1 die: 39 + 39 = 78/300
Mills (Stage 4), 1 die: 126 + 82 = 208/300
Consumer Goods Production Mechanization (Stage 1), 2 dice: 14 + 83 + 95 = 192/100

Chemical Industry:
Glass Production (Stage 3), 2 dice: 142 + 17 + 100 = 259/175
Pharmaceutical Production (Stage 3), 1 die: 57 = 57/125

Agriculture:
Dams (Stage 3), 2 dice: 143 + 87 + 1 = 231/250
Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 1), 2 dice: 23 + 81 + 35 = 139/150

Services:
Secondary Schools (Stage 1), 4 dice: 85 + 40 + 40 + 17 = 182/150
Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 4), 5 dice: 127 + 99 + 37 + 48 + 53 + 49 = 413/350

Liberated Territories:
Issuance of Farming Equipment, 1 die: 209 + 7 = 216/225
City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 1), 1 die: 188 + 22 = 210/225
Recruit More Cadres, 2 dice: 27 + 82 + 81 = 190/100
Mining Restarts, 2 dice: 25 + 96 = 121/100
Liberated Territories Primary Schools (Stage 1), 3 dice: 100 + 96 + 27 = 223/150

Military:
Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 1), 2 dice: 62 + 30 = 92/75
Monitor Construction Campaign, 1 die: 16 = 16/150

Bureaucracy:
Recruit Downtimers To Ministry, 2 dice: 21 + 86 = 107
Advisors for Food, 1 die: 74
 
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Wow, that was a really short vote period. Large range of rolls too, several nat 1 and 100s

Mathpost:
Derveni-Zapantis Canal, 2 dice (20 Resources) 648/900+28+3=679/900
Kópos Planned City, 1 die (10 Resources) 79/100+32=111/100, Peloponnese City Modernization 11/150
Peloponnese City Modernization (Stage 1), 2 dice 11/150+72+42=125/150
Telegraph Network (Stage 2), 1 die 30/150+60=90/150

Kópos Coal Mine (Stage 3), 3 dice 10/225+1+80+43=134/225 NAT 1
Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4), 1 die 31/450+76=107/450
Thermal Power Generation (Stage 1), 1 die 32/50

Textile Industry (Stage 4) 39/300+39=78/300
Mills (Stage 4), 1 die 126/300+82=208/300
Consumer Goods Production Mechanization (Stage 1), 2 dice 14/100+83+95=192/100

Glass Production (Stage 3), 2 dice 142/175+17+100+5x2= 269/175 NAT 100
Pharmaceutical Production (Stage 3), 1 die 57+5=62/125

Dams (Stage 3), 2 dice 143/250+87+1=231/250 NAT 1
Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 1), 2 dice 23/150+81+35=139/150
Secondary Schools (Stage 1), 4 dice 85+40+40+17=182/150
Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 4), 5 dice 127/350+99+37+48+53+49=413/350

Issuance of Farming Equipment, 1 die 209/225+7=216/225
City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 1), 1 die 188/225+22=210/225
Recruit More Cadres, 2 dice 27/100+82+81=190/100
Mining Restarts, 2 dice 25+96=121/100
Liberated Territories Primary Schools (Stage 1), 3 dice 100+96+27=223/150 NAT 100

Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 1), 2 dice (50 Resources) 62+30=92/75
Monitor Construction Campaign, 1 die (20 Resources) 16/150

Recruit Downtimers To Ministry, 2 dice (10 Resources)
21+86
Advisors for Food, 1 die
74
 
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Thank goodness, a high harvest roll! That combined with trade with Egypt will definitely mean our granaries will have filled up enough to give us plenty of buffer space.

EDIT: Oh, and all our Quality Dice are 70+ while 3 were 90+? It's official, Quality Dice are Maoists.
 
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Lol what the hell are these dice. At least we got plenty of food now between the bumper harvest and our offer to Egypt apparently going well
 
rolling a high quality for bolt action rifles means our land war capacity just exploded.

didnt manage to get a vote in, but thankfully the trade with egypt came through. i personally dont think tech trade with egypt is as ruinous as people think. egypt doesnt seem to have widespread knowledge nor an economy that can sustain a large chemical sector(plus the chance that they blow themselves up is likely quite high)

having said that, i think its really important that we keep strategic developments such as rifles , explosive production and other "high-end" tech out of anyones hand. im really worried about proliferation and reverse engineering by other rival states. our tech supremacy allowed our easy victory. we just need to keep increasing that advantage so that any encounter we have is so lopsided it will make grown men cry.
 
I think that's a very lopsided view of how technology is already distributed around the eastern Med, we don't actually have.... any real technology/knowledge edges over similarly sized states, much less larger ones with the resources to attract actual experts instead of the high school dropouts and garage hobbyists we're using. The Cretans just commissioned an ironclad, pretty much everybody in Anatolia has the knowledge for gunpowder production, they're harvesting and refining oil in Babylon, etc.

Like the reason we stomped New Arizona was we launched a surprise attack in the middle of a combination famine/smallpox epidemic, not some incredible superiority of arms. If there's any advantage we have, it's our willingness to pass out education and guns to our downtime population rather than needing to keep them as a permanently oppressed slave caste. We produce more steel than the Anatolians because we're willing to teach the downtimers how to make steel and build them a giant steel mill to work in, not because the secrets of steel are some unfathomable mystery that the other states just can't figure out. Our edge is in production and mobilization of the populace, not knowledge.
 
In a lot of ways, it can be argued that we are one of the lower-tech polities. We were fighting up a tech level, especially given the number of uptime guns in Arizona. The advantage we did have was a prepared mobilization scheme and the ability to do mass mobilization. None of our technology is remotely unique, hell, given a chemistry textbook people can do further and better than us if given a supply of semi-skilled labor(even to the standard of a US pre-high school education). Our greatest weakness is that we have a population base that is mostly industrially useless and that cannot be fixed in the short or mid-term, the biggest development advantage we do have however is a general willingness to mobilize our downtimers into industries along with educating them, to a bare minimum standard, but still.
 
Blackstar said:
In a lot of ways, it can be argued that we are one of the lower-tech polities. We were fighting up a tech level, especially given the number of uptime guns in Arizona. The advantage we did have was a prepared mobilization scheme and the ability to do mass mobilization. None of our technology is remotely unique, hell, given a chemistry textbook people can do further and better than us if given a supply of semi-skilled labor(even to the standard of a US pre-high school education). Our greatest weakness is that we have a population base that is mostly industrially useless and that cannot be fixed in the short or mid-term, the biggest development advantage we do have however is a general willingness to mobilize our downtimers into industries along with educating them, to a bare minimum standard, but still.
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We are obviously behind uptime relics. But what we have is a budding understanding of how to restart an industry from a downtime base and that's much more valuable to most of the states around the Mediterranean than relics they can't reproduce, even if it's less flashy.
 
Well, our biggest advantage overall against New Arizona was that New Arizona was a raging trashfire of a nation even by the low standards of the Age of Rust. What with trying to LARP Sparta with decisions like declaring 95% of their population to be slaves and saying that anyone from the remaining 5% was legally permitted to kill anyone from the slaves for no reason at all with 0 penalty.
 
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Chimeraguard said:
Well, our biggest advantage overall against New Arizona was that New Arizona was a raging trashfire of a nation even by the low standards of the Age of Rust. What with trying to LARP Sparta with decisions like declaring 95% of their population to be slaves and saying that anyone from the remaining 5% was legally permitted to kill anyone from the slaves for no reason at all with 0 penalty and an internal dissent policy of "no one will protest if we shoot anyone who protests."
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My read of the setting is that most of the polities with some amount of uptime relics are also trashfires though.

Crete is the main exception, and Egypt lead the pack among functional natives to adopt tech but they're just that, exceptions. Most uptimer polities are more like New Arizona than Crete and most downtimer polities aren't stable and strong enough to absorb change without destabilization like Egypt.

This isn't a call to be overconfident, we have a massive amount of work ahead of us to make what we have work for us. But we shouldn't undersell what we have. We have a functional state and industrialization program.
 
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I would argue when it comes to post-Event Gun tech we probably have the most advanced guns outside of the air force and the air force is limited in numbers. That's not a world beater though and doesn't make us the Top Dog. If we had refused Egypt's deal they would have gone to someone else, so it's good we took their deal
 
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