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Ascensions and Transgressions: the Tales of Keris Dulmeadokht (Exalted game)

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Echo was of course just playing along with them, because seriously, Did you think she was going to miss being able to see all of their expressions when they found out?

EDIT: Oh, and can someone mention where the Hungry Ones and Maglyaszentka were mentioned? Can't seem to find it...
 
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Aleph said:
Cute little amorphous black creatures with insectoid masks of stark white bone?

I can't imagine why you might link those to Calesco.
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My first thought was the Grimm.

Black beasts with bone-white masks and armor who can feel unpleasant emotions and kill those who they are drawn to.

Granted, Calesco's Grimm-lookalikes will probably not be quite so mindlessly violent, but the agonizing empathy of Ryuugi's TGWP Grimm fits painfully well.
 
Aleph said:
Cute little amorphous black creatures with insectoid masks of stark white bone?

I can't imagine why you might link those to Calesco.
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Yes, clearly the comparison is silly.

Relatedly, I can't help but imagine that, sometime in the coming centuries, the mezkeruby line will have a legend of one of their number who confronted a being, or perhaps one of several beings, of terrifying radiance. (Though, uh, unless we're talking the nascent soul of another Infernal, winning that confrontation is rather more in doubt.)

Pyro Hawk said:
EDIT: Oh, and can someone mention where the Hungry Ones and Maglyaszentka were mentioned? Can't seem to find it...
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The posts on keruby maturations were never moved over from the Exalted General thread, intentionally I'm told. If you want to give it a look, you can find Hanely's various -szentkae here. The other writeup, Eko's Sz- line, is linked at the top of that post.

It's been over a year and we're only now seeing concrete signs of them in story so I'd provide a caveat that major changes are quite possible.
 
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So while Keris is politicking the Unquestionable into granting her souls a measure of security in Hell's society, she's also prepping said souls to abandon the Reclamation entirely.

Is leaving Hell the only endgame Infernals have here?
 
Peanuckle said:
So while Keris is politicking the Unquestionable into granting her souls a measure of security in Hell's society, she's also prepping said souls to abandon the Reclamation entirely.

Is leaving Hell the only endgame Infernals have here?
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Depends on the Infernal. Sasi is very much a good little soldier of Hell, and Testolagh won't be interested in leaving until he feels like he's paid off the debt he feels he owes the Unquestionables.
 
Peanuckle said:
So while Keris is politicking the Unquestionable into granting her souls a measure of security in Hell's society, she's also prepping said souls to abandon the Reclamation entirely.

Is leaving Hell the only endgame Infernals have here?
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Not the *only*, one presumes, but on the other hand...

Look at the way the Infernal Charmsets are built, and remember @Revlid's excellent essay on how an Infernal Charmset is an actor in and of itself that encourages certain behaviours.

I would submit that most of the Yozi charmtrees encourage behaviours that work directly against the Unquestionable themselves in the end. Malfeas? You are the King, why do they dare to question you?

Cecelyne? You can become just as powerful, just as strong, as any Fetich Soul and more powerful than most Unquestionable. Why the fuck should you go against the Law that the Desert sets out once you're at that level?

Adorjan is obvious, it's in her nature to wreck plans.

Ebon Dragon... I forget the reworked version of his Excellency that @Aleph and @EarthScorpion use, I think it's neutral to the idea of 'serving the Unquestionable' at best, and the canon version lolno.

SWLIHN is the only Yozi Charmset of the original five whose powers will fit someone who is a loyal servant of the Yozi, and it still doesn't actively encourage it.

I harp on this over and over, but the Infernal Exalted, both in canon Exalted and Kerisgame Creation, was a classic example of the Yozi/Unquestionable (depending on which) shooting themselves in the foot.

(The same applies for the Abyssal Exalted and the Deathlords btw, although for slightly different reasons)
 
I mean, there are going to be people who are perfectly content being rockstars of Hell, or who sincerely believe in the cause for some reason, or who want access to the resources Hell can grant them, or who fall in love with an Unquestionable and haven't worked out a way to like, permanently remove them from Hell and so have to continue to associate with the Reclamation.

There are people who could remain loyal.

They're just more the exception, because Exalts in general tend to chaff under restrictions, especially when they have their personalities influenced by Yozi themes.

The only way I could see the Reclamation actually working long-term would be if the casualty rate for Infernals was so high that they never really got a chance to decide they don't like or don't need it anymore.

(In that respect, the 150 year canon lifespan is actually way too long to ensure loyalty.)
 
Peanuckle said:
So while Keris is politicking the Unquestionable into granting her souls a measure of security in Hell's society, she's also prepping said souls to abandon the Reclamation entirely.

Is leaving Hell the only endgame Infernals have here?
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Not at all. Keris is basically doing the equivalent of preparing a travel bag and making sure her escape route is clear if she needs to bug out - but she's not actually planning to go rogue yet. For one, she doesn't want to abandon Lilunu, and for two, there are Third Circles she doesn't mind working for. For example, Ligier can basically treat her a reliable source of chaos-things, because Keris hates them and doesn't mind selling them to him.

But it is basically inevitable that the Third Circles and the Infernals will need to rework their relationships, because the power gap between a newly Exalted Infernal and a Third Circle is much, much larger than the power gap between a veteran Infernal and a Third Circle. Especially once they start having their own Third Circle souls. They don't have to leave Hell - but working from my metaphor that if Sidereals are government employees then Infernals are private contractors, then it's very likely that Infernals will wind up taking over or starting up their own megacorps and the Third Circles will need to treat them as peers instead of subordinates.
 
This was very interesting! Dulmea's concerns are very, very real. The Unquestionables of Hell are fully deserving of her fear, they're on the whole stronger in their area of focus than a Solar Exalted, and they've made sure that all of Hell knows it. But Keris has a point to, whatever they were before their imprisonment is now mot. They're largely monsters now, filled with spite and viciousness, letting them out as they are is going to be bad for everyone, including the Third-Circle Demon.

Honestly, Keris's plan of latching onto the nicer ones and doing stuff to make their lives in Malfeas nicer is probably the best solution all around. Keep getting Ligier his Wyld energy and the like, and Keris can maintain a healthy relationship with the Demon City if she wants to.
 
There's a larger problem with keeping them locked up, however. Not an insurmountable one but...

Creation is running down. It was created for the Primordials to play around in, and the rebelling Gods are either incapable or unwilling to keep it maintained. Which one it is doesn't matter; it won't last much longer unless something dramatic changes, and most of the options would lessen it further.

I'm not claiming that releasing the Yozi would help, because as broken and bitter as they are I doubt it would, but something needs to be done about this. Keris has figured that out already; she's noticed that things keep getting worse, even if I don't think she's realized that reality itself is breaking apart. Yet.

But of course, noticing that something is wrong is pretty far from being able to fix it.
 
Baughn said:
There's a larger problem with keeping them locked up, however. Not an insurmountable one but...

Creation is running down. It was created for the Primordials to play around in, and the rebelling Gods are either incapable or unwilling to keep it maintained. Which one it is doesn't matter; it won't last much longer unless something dramatic changes, and most of the options would lessen it further.

I'm not claiming that releasing the Yozi would help, because as broken and bitter as they are I doubt it would, but something needs to be done about this. Keris has figured that out already; she's noticed that things keep getting worse, even if I don't think she's realized that reality itself is breaking apart. Yet.

But of course, noticing that something is wrong is pretty far from being able to fix it.
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I don't recall 'reality is breaking apart' being a thing?

Creation has problems, and some of those problems involve the Wyld or the Underworld or even Oblivion slowly dissolving parts of it, but that's not the same as reality itself breaking down.
 
Maugan Ra said:
I don't recall 'reality is breaking apart' being a thing?

Creation has problems, and some of those problems involve the Wyld or the Underworld or even Oblivion slowly dissolving parts of it, but that's not the same as reality itself breaking down.
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Creation, AKA the bit of chaos that was stabilized and is real, is falling apart. More than 90% of it has collapsed back into the Wyld. Oblivion is rotting away parts of it.

Reality is falling apart.
 
Maugan Ra said:
I don't recall 'reality is breaking apart' being a thing?

Creation has problems, and some of those problems involve the Wyld or the Underworld or even Oblivion slowly dissolving parts of it, but that's not the same as reality itself breaking down.
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We've gone from (probably) galaxy-sized or larger in pre-Primordial War times, to a single (admittedly enormous) world in First Age and Shogunate times, to about a tenth that size in the Third Age...

The Yozis' jouten are now larger than their playground. I'm pretty sure that wasn't intended, and it's a good argument against letting them out all by itself. There's no room.

Parts are being slowly dissolved off it, yes, except for once every thousand years or so when some disaster happens and the process dramatically speeds up. We're about due for another one, and even if it just cuts off another 90%, that would reduce it to pretty much just the Blessed Isle and some surroundings. I don't think it'd survive a fourth. I'm dubious about the third. Would the elemental poles survive being cut off?

It's not some single phenomenon that can be targeted -- they all had different causes. If there's a single base cause, it's that Creation as a whole is built on sand. It's surrounded by the Wyld, by Oblivion, and for that matter by Nullspace... and without active maintenance by way of Primordials (or equivalents!) fixing it up after an invasion, one of those forces will eventually have its way with it.
 
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I'm not sure the scale is the same as you mentioned(I mean I knew originally Creation was huge but galaxy sized? though I could be wrong) but you are correct in that Creation is dramatically reduced both in wonder as well as size. I guess a sufficient number of Solar's could start expanding and stabilising Creation again but well you get int other kind of things that Solar's in power get up to...or you get the Yozi's to do something and have to deal with them. The Bronze Faction isn't going to like the use of Solar's to reaffirm Creation and nobody wants the Yozi running around.


However the wyld isn't the only threat, there's also Oblivion and the opening of Shadowlands. The Deathlords, or at least the neverborn want to destroy Creation....

Overall, I would hesitate to say 'Creation is going to fall apart 'soon', but...it is winding down, being reduced again and again by the Wyld, Oblivion etc.
 
Baughn said:
We've gone from (probably) galaxy-sized or larger in pre-Primordial War times, to a single (admittedly enormous) world in First Age and Shogunate times, to about a tenth that size in the Third Age...
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No, this is non-canon. We don't know the size of Creation before the Primordial War.

Baughn said:
The Yozis' jouten are now larger than their playground. I'm pretty sure that wasn't intended, and it's a good argument against letting them out all by itself. There's no room.

Parts are being slowly dissolved off it, yes, except for once every thousand years or so when some disaster happens and the process dramatically speeds up. We're about due for another one, and even if it just cuts off another 90%, that would reduce it to pretty much just the Blessed Isle and some surroundings. I don't think it'd survive a fourth. I'm dubious about the third. Would the elemental poles survive being cut off?

It's not some single phenomenon that can be targeted -- they all had different causes. If there's a single base cause, it's that Creation as a whole is built on sand. It's surrounded by the Wyld, by Oblivion, and for that matter by Nullspace... and without active maintenance by way of Primordials (or equivalents!) fixing it up after an invasion, one of those forces will eventually have its way with it.
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This is also inaccurate. The Solars are returning, so are the Abyssals and the Infernals, yes but neither Solars or Infernals are intrinsically opposed to Creation, and that makes double as many of those as the total amount of Abyssals.

I was brought in with 1e, I am an avid believer that Creation is eventually doomed; the heroes arrived too late and now everyone are picking for scraps, but this is flatly untrue. Creation is surrounded by the Wyld and that's one thing, Oblivion is in the Underworld, Nullspace is a single place relevant only to Autochthonia, and one of those forces won't necessarily have their way with it. The Solars are back and things are going to change, this is the Time of Tumult where all that was and all that is are made into all that can be; we stand at the cusp of the Third Age or Oblivion, but frankly Creation isn't going to dissolve any time soon.

Of course this is ignoring the fact that the Unquestionable are a horrible, spiteful lot and keeping them locked up is likely the best for Creation, I certainly would not want someone like @EarthScorpion's Sima or even the Sanceline that I myself wrote free. And this is before getting into the territory of these kinds of world-destroying, all-consuming plots siphoning attention away from everything else and killing the small stories, the stories that a work like Kerisgame is built of at it's very foundation; what value does the baker's quarrel with the smith have if Creation is falling apart and you gotta act now to save it all?

And at the end this is likely very off-topic for the purposes of Kerisgame, so I propose this is taken to the general Exalted thread?
 
Undead-Spaceman said:
Would the border between Calesco and Haneyl be closer to the Green Path or Queen's Garden?
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Neither, really.

In both cases, the Swamp is too active and too aggressive to be either environment. The borders of the Swamp are constant warzones, even at the biome level. Swamplife is constantly reaching out to try to subsume the Isles and the Meadows alike. The borders are in constant flux as the Swamplife reaches out to choke and grow - only then the fires they need don't come to refresh the soil and they die back.

Or, you know, in the case of the Isles they grow into the Isles and then they mutate to become Isles-like.
 
Maugan Ra said:
I don't recall 'reality is breaking apart' being a thing?

Creation has problems, and some of those problems involve the Wyld or the Underworld or even Oblivion slowly dissolving parts of it, but that's not the same as reality itself breaking down.
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Even if you take oWoD as canon for Exalted, you can't say that reality is breaking apart. The High Mythic Age as presented is hardly any more 'broken' than Creation as it stands, and past the High Mythic Age reality if anything gets more solid. Compare the fae in Exalted, who still have ridiculous high stats and superpowers, and the fae in WoD, who can, if faced with someone sufficiently science-y, lose all those powers and turn into normal kids, no save.

E: Also compare sorcery, something even random mortals can learn at a terrestrial level which affects some pretty large swathes of Creation, with hedge magic, which requires as much effort to learn but is extremely weak.
 
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linkhyrule5 said:
Maybe not galaxy, but at least multiple solar systems, because we've got multiple stellar bodies as Primodials - a black hole, a supernova, a dyson sphere, and then there's the conceptual largeness of Qaf and Mardukth.
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Well, if you consider the Shards in any way canon, then the Gunstar one gives a pretty clear depiction of the breadth of Primordial Creation, that is, as a vast, seven spiraled galaxy.

And since it is supposed to depict what might have happened if the Exalted had lost the war, I personally take it to be an accurate depiction of what it once was.
 
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I'm now imagining an Infernal Exalt having to go and talk to Ligier about a problem with the Reclamation.

Infernal: "Well, the Reclamation is going fine....there's just one problem with it. One that I'm absolutely certain was considered before the project was begun."

Ligier: "What problem are you speaking of? And why is it important enough to draw me from my war with the Blood-Red Moon?"

Infernal: "Creation....isn't big enough. The Yozi are too big to fit into Creation as it is. Too much was lost during the Balorian Crusade for the Yozi to be freed."

Ligier: *Frustrated rage*
 
Lirana said:
Well, if you consider the Shards in any way canon, then the Gunstar one gives a pretty clear depiction of the breadth of Primordial Creation, that is, as a vast, seven spiraled galaxy.
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Well, you don't because it's not canon nor is it an accurate depiction of Creation before the war. It's a depiction, but the entire point is that there is no accurate depiction of Creation before the Primordial War, it's lost to the world forever, faded away and perished eternal, such was the cost that the Exalted Host paid for their (literal, haha) hubris.
 
Lirana said:
Well, if you consider the Shards in any way canon, then the Gunstar one gives a pretty clear depiction of the breadth of Primordial Creation, that is, as a vast, seven spiraled galaxy.

And since it is supposed to depict what might have happened if the Exalted had lost the war, I personally take it to be an accurate depiction of what it once was.
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I don't, and we are additionally veering somewhat away from the actual thread topic and into more Exalted General chat.
 
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