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Arsonist's Lullaby: An Azula Timeloop Quest

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[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With a challenge.
Fabula Amanti said:
Practicality won't work on someone who operates on Destiny mindset and sympathy especially wont work since that he would be willing to bear that burden even for Azula's sake.
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I was thinking the same, but then it occurred to me that it's not about convincing Zuko. Not for us players.


It's about what Zuko will say in response to Azula's question, and the impact that answer will have on her.
 
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[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
Wow. I'm honestly surprised people are picking the other options.

Practicality is not effective on Zuko. His answer would be that he'd manage. I mean, Aang's entire arc while doing this is all about finding a way to beat Ozai without killing him. It's almost trivial for Zuko to claim the same: "I'll have uncle and my friends to help me, I believe in them, together we can do anything, blah blah blah". Why would Zuko agree to being Azula's advisor? Why would he think he would have any influence on actual decision making, if he has no experience or temperament suited to it? Zuko's literally learned a new way of firebending that shows you can be strong without anger or rage or whatever. Zuko will say he can be a strong Fire Lord without being Azula's kind of 'strong'. I don't see this conversation leading anywhere meaningful.

Similarly, a Challenge would also not work. Zuko responds competitively to challenges, especially from Azula. And his idealism means that he'd be certain of finding a solution ultimately, of finding a way to make it work. And even if not... again, becoming Azula's subordinate is not a viable option for what he wants to achieve.

But Sympathy? Ohhhh, yes. Zuko knows all about this transformation - after all, he was the person striving to be Fire Lord before, when he was always angry, trying to wear ill fitting clothes. This is a productive conversation. This is a conversation about character, about destiny - about ethos anthropos daimon. What would Zuko's answers be? And what would they reveal about Azula and her character, about Ursa's character, about Iroh and Ozai's characters? For that matter, about Roku and Sozin, their ancestors, going from friends to enemies?



[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.

Picking this by default because I think the other two would just see Zuko get his back up and the talk wouldn't go anywhere at all because he's too stubborn to actually consider the practicalities of precisely WHAT he'll do as Fire Lord in both the generalities (Practicality option) and in regards to a rival claimant to the throne (Challenge option). He'd just be like "I'll manage" and basically just ignore it.

This one is that too but it's more about principles and ideals which is the headspace Zuko is currently in.

So I just can't see either the other two actually convincing him OR even offering development for Azula. Whereas this one isn't likely to work either but is the least unlikely and Azula actually has to consider things should wouldn't normally consider. Practical ruling and court politics isn't exactly unusual for Azula to think about after all.
 
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[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
Parabola said:
Sympathy feels like it may end up with Zuko going "...but why should you have to be a monster?", with an implicit "I don't think you deserve that" in there.
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Yeah, that's my thinking too, hence
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With practicality.

I just like the idea of Azula confronting zuko with the fact that an incompetent fire lord might actually cause more death and suffering than an evil one. Just throwing the colonial population to wolves eh zuko...
 
Wiggy said:
I just like the idea of Azula confronting zuko with the fact that an incompetent fire lord might actually cause more death and suffering than an evil one. Just throwing the colonial population to wolves eh zuko...
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the evil fire lords are waging wars of colonial annihilation and genocide against all three other polities on the planet, after wiping out the fourth. i think zuko not having a clearly set out tax policy would not be as bad as that
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.

I feel like this actually works after that discussion and the character development from loop two with Iroh.

Also that last talk was as close to sympathy as Azula has ever gotten, and it worked decently well.
From her perspective this might just seem to be the best way to persuade Zuko.
 
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[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.


The part where the Forelord Zuko who refuses to kill his sister to become the Firelord of peace and brotherhood will fail is a really neat talking point that I can't wait to see 3 generations of family trauma dumped all over
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
veteranMortal said:
the evil fire lords are waging wars of colonial annihilation and genocide against all three other polities on the planet, after wiping out the fourth. i think zuko not having a clearly set out tax policy would not be as bad as that
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You underestimate the importance of tax policy

But in all seriousness the collapse of the Fire Nation would be messy and probably quite bloody. That's not to say that it's good now but it at least makes a pretense of competence and sanity before Ozai decided to set everything on fire. We know Zuko would do fine but no one else does.

Of course you need to get rid of all the genocidal policy any maybe negotiate a peace with the Earth kingdom.
 
[X] With a challenge.

I don't see either sympathy or practicality getting anywhere. Sympathy will just invoke a "Oh, I'm a martyr! I will suffer for my dreams, until I have built a world where bad things aren't needed!" response, and suggesting Azula is the practical choice will probably get her laughed at.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
[x] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.

I think this will go more interesting places than "but what if you didn't need to be a monster to run the fire nation?"
 
[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
I am honestly split between Sympathy and Practicality.

With Challenge I don't think Zuko will have much problem deciding he can manage to be a Fire Lord even if his sister is alive.

And while I personaly like Practicality more I can already see Zuko blabering on about destiny again and just frustrate Azula more.

So I'll go with Sympathy since while I don't think it will do much for Zuko, I imagine it might have real impact on Azula.

[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With practicality. If Zuko truly wants what is best for the Fire Nation, he must recognise that unlike you, he simply does not know how to be Fire Lord. It has been years since he was last taught to rule, and he was never a talented student to begin with. There is no purpose to his blathering about honour and destiny if the nation crumbles under his leadership within a few years, torn apart by enemies within and without. You're willing to allow some degree of compromise, to permit him back within the halls of power as an influence, but the Fire Lord must be strong, and so the Fire Lord must be you.

For reasons others have gone over, this wasn't an easy pick
 
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