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Arsonist's Lullaby: An Azula Timeloop Quest

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[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With practicality. If Zuko truly wants what is best for the Fire Nation, he must recognise that unlike you, he simply does not know how to be Fire Lord. It has been years since he was last taught to rule, and he was never a talented student to begin with. There is no purpose to his blathering about honour and destiny if the nation crumbles under his leadership within a few years, torn apart by enemies within and without. You're willing to allow some degree of compromise, to permit him back within the halls of power as an influence, but the Fire Lord must be strong, and so the Fire Lord must be you.
 
Damn 13k word update dropping right as I was trying to get off for the night. :V

[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
[x] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
Potato12345 said:
For those better versed in common sense and debate, does the argument of Challenge actually hold water here? It does seem to work superficially, but I'm not sure how it fits in the actual situation here.
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Potato12345 said:
Good to know. May I ask why Challenge is a bad argument? Can't quite see that, while the others are pretty clear to me.
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The through line on all of these choices is that in the comics, Zuko does wind up having to crawl back to Ozai. Sure, the show does frame it as Zuko wanting to know where his mother is, but Ozai wraps his son around his finger and turns himself into a closet advisor due to all the stress Zuko's going through bringing rebellious military leaders into line. Zuko eventually kicks it after he learns the truth about his heritage, but that's beside the point.

Challenge tells Zuko that he'll never measure up. He'll never be a "real" Fire Lord in the vein of his father. Challenge is to say that things will never change and Azula the Prodigy should take over as if nothing ever happened.

And like I outlined earlier, Zuko is way beyond his Daddy Issues. He's not in the headspace of "I'm running a global empire oh dear god", he's a man on a divine mission.

Sympathy is the most out of left field motion, and plays most directly off of the last conversation. The only way it'll go super-off is if Zuko does something even more surprising than last loop's Iroh pulling an Undertaker. Like Aang showing up with him.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
Won't work any better than any of the others, but those two paragraphs of Azula wrangling the fire nation bureaucracy were so outstanding that I definitely want to see more of the political nitty gritty.

[X] With practicality. If Zuko truly wants what is best for the Fire Nation, he must recognise that unlike you, he simply does not know how to be Fire Lord. It has been years since he was last taught to rule, and he was never a talented student to begin with. There is no purpose to his blathering about honour and destiny if the nation crumbles under his leadership within a few years, torn apart by enemies within and without. You're willing to allow some degree of compromise, to permit him back within the halls of power as an influence, but the Fire Lord must be strong, and so the Fire Lord must be you.
 
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Always Late said:
He's not in the headspace of "I'm running a global empire oh dear god", he's a man on a divine mission.
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Ah, frame problems, that makes sense. Thanks!

[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
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[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
[x] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
I really hope that Azula is able to visit and learn from the Sun warriors and the Dragons. Just seeing her react to their firebending philosophy would be amazing. Zuko slipped up and almost mentioned them.
 
Love to see this back. There is still hope for my girl.

[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
[X] With practicality. If Zuko truly wants what is best for the Fire Nation, he must recognise that unlike you, he simply does not know how to be Fire Lord. It has been years since he was last taught to rule, and he was never a talented student to begin with. There is no purpose to his blathering about honour and destiny if the nation crumbles under his leadership within a few years, torn apart by enemies within and without. You're willing to allow some degree of compromise, to permit him back within the halls of power as an influence, but the Fire Lord must be strong, and so the Fire Lord must be you.
 
[x] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.

I really need Azula to engage with the Truth she has that she's a monster. Substantially more than I care abt Zuko's tax policy.

Discussion of Zuko possibly needing to purge Azula after becoming Fire Lord is interesting though, but feels like an argument best had after Azula isn't quite so convinced she's a monster.
 
[X] With a challenge. Suppose Zuko becomes Fire Lord. Has he thought about what he's going to do about you? You are, after all, the previous Fire Lord's favoured heir and a bending prodigy with a proven military history who knows all those roaming the corridors of power by name, ambition, and vice. You undermine his rule just by existing; surely he paid enough attention in his studies to recall the Camellia-Peony war, if nothing else. But the Zuko who wishes to be Fire Lord is the Zuko whose fantasy of peace and brotherhood across the lands will refuse to purge you until it is too late—and that is why you must be Fire Lord instead. Not because you are willing to purge him, but because you would not need to.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.

I'm gonna choose this, because Azula will almost certainly believe she's lying and manipulating Zuko when she says it. And she kinda is, because lol, let's be real, they are still not there yet, for her to feel bad for bad things that would happen to him, as we've just established.

But it says things about Azula. That she can at least come up with a mental framework that establishes:
1) that the Fire Throne is a burden and nobody in their right mind would want to rule the Fire Nation.
2) that her father is a monster.

There won't be a mid-conversation realization from Azula about how she doesn't even know why she's fighting Zuko for the damn thing when she doesn't want it, but it's another wedge to drive in.

As an aside, kinda wonder what will happen to the first poor sod who suggests to her that she might be a more powerful firebender than her dad.
 
[X] With sympathy. Zuko wishes to be Fire Lord for the sake of his dreams. But the Fire Lord does not dream. The Fire Lord does not feed scraggly turtle-ducks in quiet afternoons beside the pond. The Fire Lord is the scale on which all life in the Fire Nation is weighed. Even if he could survive the pressure, the man who emerged from that crucible would not be the man Zuko wishes to be. But you? You are already a monster. You are already willing to do all the things it would ruin your brother to do. The sooner he sees that, the sooner he will understand you are the only choice to rule.
 
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